The One Who's Not God
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Brother when one becomes used to looking and accepting twisted things as correct. It becomes hard to see straight. Forget about Tahir ul Qadri. Do you believe Yousaf Ali is correct? If no bring the translation you believe is correct. I am not jumping, it is you who started to bring other verses and questions. Instead, of just talking about a three word sentence.
So please bring the translation of these three words that you understand and believe is correct, so we can continue a rationale discussion. Otherwise, you are free to believe whatever you like as always.
Regards
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ok folks, my dear fellow humans who are discussing this topic.... let's take a step back, cool our egos, and treat the matter at hand totally objectively with no emotions involved. I find this matter interesting, but it is starting to drift off topic, away from the grammar and language, and more towards emotions and persons. For everyone's sake, let's not make this thread another one about who said, meant, thought or did what. This forum already contains enough of that. Let's share knowledge, opinions and understanding about the Arabic language and its application. Keeping it objective and mature will let everyone benefit from it. The topic is quite interesting!
Peace and Cheers
group handshake
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Brother when one becomes used to looking and accepting twisted things as correct. It becomes hard to see straight. Forget about Tahir ul Qadri. Do you believe Yousaf Ali is correct? If no bring the translation you believe is correct. I am not jumping, it is you who started to bring other verses and questions. Instead, of just talking about a three word sentence.
So please bring the translation of these three words that you understand and believe is correct, so we can continue a rationale discussion. Otherwise, you are free to believe whatever you like as always.
Regards
Red This is a clear lie on me. Lets see how it was done.
Reply # 21 You explained as per your understanding.
Reply # 22 I asked you, how will you translate if your explanation in reply # 21 is correct.
Reply # 23 You said "I shall fulfill your wish soon" and "Please point out any mistakes in above translation."
Reply # 24 I was waiting for the first part from above quote, and for the second part of your quote above, I asked "let me know where is that aayat you have quoted, please give me the sura and aayat."
Reply # 25 You translated the sentence asked in reply # 22 as ?Surely, One who is not a deity for worship, separates himself from all concepts of illah or god?
Reply # 30 You answered the question asked in reply # 24 as "It is Sura Baqra, Aya 255, popularly know as Ayat Al Kursi."
Reply # 34 I said "you mis-used the aayat, let me show how." you missed the red part and I asked "Can you please translate this complete part".
Reply # 36 You translated it as "Allah is not a deity for worship, except he".
Reply # 37 I asked "Can you please elaborate the first line? Who is "he"? As per your translations, it is cannot be Allah, because He is out of question when you say "Allah is not a deity for worship", then who is "he" and what means "except" in this sentence. Please clarify for me."
Reply # 38 You said "Brother, Who is he? I am surprised you put the verse below as your signature and yet you ask me who is he? The word "except" relates to and what is said after describing what he is not in this verse."
Reply # 39 I said "Now you come up with another aayat and made more confusion. Will you please explain what is asked to you? Thanks."
Reply # 40 You said "So you believe following are correct translations? Yousuf Ali Allah! There is no god but He,"
Reply # 41 I said "Is it difficult for you to answer straight to me brother? Why you always twist and jump."
Reply # 42 You replied "Brother when one becomes used to looking and accepting twisted things as correct. It becomes hard to see straight." and "I am not jumping, it is you who started to bring other verses and questions. Instead, of just talking about a three word sentence." and "So please bring the translation of these three words that you understand and believe is correct,"
Please note, it was not me who was jumping here and there, but you started with a translation of three words from a five words sentence, THEN you jumped to my signature, THEN you jumped to other's translations.
Did I asked you to bring what and how others translated it? nope I asked for your translation and I asked why you missed "illa huwa" from a sentence and giving your idea on a part of a sentence instead of taking it in full. What translation I believe in is not in question. The question is "why you took only three words from a five words sentence"? and "How will you translate the complete five words sentence with your understanding". Will you please now explain it to me! Thanks.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
Red
Reply # 36 You translated it as "Allah is not a deity for worship, except he".
Reply # 37 I asked "Can you please elaborate the first line? Who is "he"? As per your translations, it is cannot be Allah, because He is out of question when you say "Allah is not a deity for worship", then who is "he" and what means "except" in this sentence. Please clarify for me."
[mmKhan
Sorry the part in red is what I miss read/understood. My fault and my sincere apologies for this omission.
The "he" in this line is referring to one who has been discussed in first three words/sentence before it. It is a pronoun. It is just like if I were to say " Brother mmkhan, came into house, then he opened the fridge". Here pronoun "he" is used as pronoun to refer to something that has been described in sentence before. Hope this is clear.
Why this can not be Allah? It is referring to Allah meaning as "One who is not deity for worship". This is what I have explained by using both "Allah" as proper name as well with the break down of "Allah" not as a proper name.
Regards
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Sorry the part in red is what I miss read/understood. My fault and my sincere apologies for this omission.
The "he" in this line is referring to one who has been discussed in first three words/sentence before it. It is a pronoun. It is just like if I were to say " Brother mmkhan, came into house, then he opened the fridge". Here pronoun "he" is used as pronoun to refer to something that has been described in sentence before. Hope this is clear.
Why this can not be Allah? It is referring to Allah meaning as "One who is not deity for worship". This is what I have explained by using both "Allah" as proper name as well with the break down of "Allah" not as a proper name.
Regards
No need to apologize brother. Its OK, we all make mistakes so correcting it is enough handshake
If you say "he" is referring to "Allah" which is used in first part of this aayat, then how will you understand "except" or "illa"?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
If you say "he" is referring to "Allah" which is used in first part of this aayat, then how will you understand "except" or "illa"?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhanI should have given a better and related example above. "bkanwar2, tries his best except sometimes he makes mistakes". The except in this verse describes what allah is in the following part of the verse after describing what he is not.
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I should have given a better and related example above. "bkanwar2, tries his best except sometimes he makes mistakes". The except in this verse describes what allah is in the following part of the verse after describing what he is not.
Thank you brother for your example.. now this will be translated as
The one who is not a deity for worship, no deity for worship, except the one who is not a deity for worship.
It is not making any sense to me. How else will you translate it? Can you please clarify. Thanks!
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
No brother, please look back for ease, here it is again. First with break down of orthographic script of Allah.
( )
One who is not a deity for worship, does not at all belong to genus/specie of illah (deity for worship), except he is........., in the space would be translation of the words that follow "illa" to complete. You have not asked for translation of those so far. If you want I can translate those as well.
This is accepting Allah as proper name.
Allah is not an Illah (a deity for worship), except he is........
Regards, -
No brother, please look back for ease, here it is again. First with break down of orthographic script of Allah.
( )
One who is not a deity for worship, does not at all belong to genus/specie of illah (deity for worship), except he is........., in the space would be translation of the words that follow "illa" to complete. You have not asked for translation of those so far. If you want I can translate those as well.
This is accepting Allah as proper name.
Allah is not an Illah (a deity for worship), except he is........
Regards,Thanks. Will you please translate for me the complete sentence including "illa huwa" and brother please do not use any Arabic words in translation. Please translate all words of .
Regards,
mmKhan -
Brother, I have translated already all words of
But let me translate words following , so it shall make more sense.
"One who is not a deity for worship, does not belong to genus/species of illah (deity for worship), except he is the absolute sustainer of exsistance full of intelligence and knowledge."
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Brother you are free to think whatever you like. However, description given for concept of the word god, is not mine. It is by religious, philosphers and scholars of the said language.
Conceptually, word Allah, as it is understood and as well, manifested by practice of religion of Islam today. I do not find any difference in concept. Difference is only in practice of mode and rituals of worship for the two.
Salaam bro,
I forgot to reply to this post.
Ok so you took the definition given by religious, philosphers and scholars to the word God and then used it for your definition for the word Allah hmm
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam bkanwar2
I have another question if you don't mind. How do you understand constructions like these
1143
and
4037 "... ..."Salaam,
BenderFirst is easy, I have translated whole Sura. However, will need to spend time on 4037. I do not think Mossa is same as Moses. (Note 1142 needs some changes based upon some new learning and confirmation of linguistic principles).
Surah 1141
Reflect and then express in your words that, I seek protection from the state of commotion with Rabb. (Sustainer, Foster, Maintainer and Accomplisher.)
( it?s root is . This root belongs to class of verbs that are called by Arab grammarians as , meaning verbs of mind plus having a as second letter of root puts it in classification of . When this class of verbs are changed into imperative, these lose the ?waw? due . third rule. Now let us put this much knowledge to understand the meaning. Root?s meaning ?he said?. Now please bear in mind it is a verb of mind. Furthermore, no words can be uttered without thinking the words first in the mind. Plus it is in an imperative form. Hence, its meaning as ?Reflect and then express?.)
(= its root is . It is that its 1st person singular verb of present or future tense. Important thing to keep in mind is that it is a /intransitive verb. In fact it is doubly intransitive. What is or intransitive verb? These are verbs that require one or more objects to convey their meanings. Since meanings of this root implies ?he seek protection?. It should naturally follow that one would seek protection with something/someone against something/someone. This point is important to bear in mind to explain following words in the verse.)
( it is combination of a preposition ?? and noun ??, when written together, these form, what is called a . Now the noun ?? is from root
? ? meaning ?he is sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher?. Preposition ?? has several meanings depending upon context, but most appropriate here would be ?with?. This would constitute as a first object to explain ?? as subject of the sentence. Now we need another object to explain the meanings completely. As ?I seek protection with sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher? does not explain that what it is against which, I am seeking protection with the ??. Doesn?t it?
(This brings into question the meanings of next word ??. The word is combination of definite article ?? simply consider it to be equivalent of ?the? in English. This is followed by word ??, it is from root ? ?. Again since it has letter ?Waw? at number 2 in the root, it belongs to . Rule number 1 of the group says that if preceding letter has ?fetha/Zuber? the letter at number 2 will change into an ?alif?, hence ??. The primary meaning of this root is ?state of commotion?. Now if we were to put this meaning, it shall provide two objects needed by subject of the sentence as required by language rules discussed in the beginning, that is ?? ?I seek protection?.
Surah 1142
What is for you the state of commotion?
( this in traditional translation is considered as one word. It is translated as ?The king or the ruler?. My purpose is not to be exhaustive, but it is incorrect to translate this word into English as ?the King or the ruler? as there is not definite article ?al? before this noun, if it were to be a noun at all. In fact it is not a noun it is even not one word. It is a combination three words. First one is ?? which or interrogative noun, followed by preposition ?? again could have several meanings depending upon context, but here ?for? and finally ?? a personal pronoun meaning ?you?. Next word is explained above).
Surah 1143
The god (deity for worship) is the cause for state of commotion.
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My Dear bkanwar2,zulf and others,salam
Let me also share my opinion,Allah s various names prove that he has lot of power,give birth and death,give food etc.etc.There are lot of business going around in the world and outside it,Allah is doing all of it,He also omnipotent,and closer to us than our jugular nein.
I think Allah has a system,some what similar to computers operating system,like windows-7,He is super controlling power and have aids like various angels doing various jobs,and remember angels make no mistakes ,because they are so designed and they are doing various jobs as per
allah s instructions. there are much more in numbers than we.Now if
allah wants some one to die,he has already fixed a time and date and the respective angel knows it in advance,so what is the problem,Allah needs no to go to that person who has to die ,He is just sitting some where and controlling that.Thanks -
First is easy, I have translated whole Sura.
Salaam bro,
Sorry for the very late reply, it was a combination of forgetting and laziness -[
I also want you to know that I have zero knowledge of arabic grammar and I don't know the meaning of most terms you used.However, will need to spend time on 4037. I do not think Mossa is same as Moses. (Note 1142 needs some changes based upon some new learning and confirmation of linguistic principles).
Ok np.
( it?s root is . This root belongs to class of verbs that are called by Arab grammarians as , meaning verbs of mind plus having a as second letter of root puts it in classification of . When this class of verbs are changed into imperative, these lose the ?waw? due . third rule. Now let us put this much knowledge to understand the meaning. Root?s meaning ?he said?. Now please bear in mind it is a verb of mind. Furthermore, no words can be uttered without thinking the words first in the mind. Plus it is in an imperative form. Hence, its meaning as ?Reflect and then express?.)
I agree on this.
(= its root is . It is that its 1st person singular verb of present or future tense. Important thing to keep in mind is that it is a /intransitive verb. In fact it is doubly intransitive. What is or intransitive verb? These are verbs that require one or more objects to convey their meanings. Since meanings of this root implies ?he seek protection?. It should naturally follow that one would seek protection with something/someone against something/someone. This point is important to bear in mind to explain following words in the verse.)
agreed
( it is combination of a preposition ?? and noun ??, when written together, these form, what is called a . Now the noun ?? is from root
? ? meaning ?he is sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher?. Preposition ?? has several meanings depending upon context, but most appropriate here would be ?with?. This would constitute as a first object to explain ?? as subject of the sentence. Now we need another object to explain the meanings completely. As ?I seek protection with sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher? does not explain that what it is against which, I am seeking protection with the ??. Doesn?t it?
I still don't know how to understand the usage of "Bi" in The Quran, so I can't discuss about this.
My understanding of "Rab" is almost the same handshake(This brings into question the meanings of next word ??. The word is combination of definite article ?? simply consider it to be equivalent of ?the? in English. This is followed by word ??, it is from root ? ?. Again since it has letter ?Waw? at number 2 in the root, it belongs to . Rule number 1 of the group says that if preceding letter has ?fetha/Zuber? the letter at number 2 will change into an ?alif?, hence ??. The primary meaning of this root is ?state of commotion?. Now if we were to put this meaning, it shall provide two objects needed by subject of the sentence as required by language rules discussed in the beginning, that is ?? ?I seek protection?.
RED I do not agree with this. It may be a arabic grammar rule but not a Quranic rule. As far as I know, "Naas" is always written with an alif in The Quran. So not a single reason for me to believe that it's root is "nun waw sien" nope
BLUE I believe this understanding contradicts a lot of other verses. Some examples where I believe this understanding doesn't hold is
10108. Do we have to reflect and then express "O you state of commotion..."? against who are talking here?
or 131 "...but most of state of commotion does not believe" does not make sense to me.
And there are tens more verses like these where imho your definition doesn't make sense.Surah 1142
What is for you the state of commotion?
( this in traditional translation is considered as one word. It is translated as ?The king or the ruler?. My purpose is not to be exhaustive, but it is incorrect to translate this word into English as ?the King or the ruler? as there is not definite article ?al? before this noun, if it were to be a noun at all. In fact it is not a noun it is even not one word. It is a combination three words. First one is ?? which or interrogative noun, followed by preposition ?? again could have several meanings depending upon context, but here ?for? and finally ?? a personal pronoun meaning ?you?. Next word is explained above).
RED I agree about the "al".
GREEN If you do this trick with this word then you have to do it with all the words, and that is for sure not going to work out. For example the beginning of the chapter begins with why did you not cut it in 2 or more parts. I can see clearly that we can at least cut the "alif" away from it so that we get a question particle. Any reason for not doing this?How would you translate the blue part of this ayaat
1879
If I use your method it would be something like this
Ma = what
Li = for
Kun = bebtw we have not only the written text. no one pronounce it like how you understand it.
Surah 1143
The god (deity for worship) is the cause for state of commotion.
I see that you translated "Ilahi" as "The God", earlier you said that no "AL" no "The", is this an exception?
furthermore why do you translate "Ilahi" as "The God"? I can see clearly that it consists of 2 parts
Ila = to
hi = him/his/its
So I would translate it as to him/it is the state of commotion.Salaam,
Bender -
This is what happens when you take and make scriptures as lexicons and dictionaries,
Allah is just an Arabic word, Arabic word for God / The God / Single Deity / Supreme Being.
Ilahi means Godly, Divine.
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Ilahi means Godly, Divine.
the word ilah is equal with "god" with small "g".
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Peace,
There is no other divinity than God.
God bless you
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the word ilah is equal with "god" with small "g".
I meant ilahi,
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Peace Yuliana
Unfortunately you gave no diacritic into that word.
If we input the diacritic - Aalihii = divine, godlike (adjective)
- Ilahi = my god (ilah = god and hi is pronoun of anta/my)
I also checked in baheeth.com if the word seems more close to "my god" in Classical Arab.
Don't know, but maybe other members have more opinion.