Slavery is Polytheism, the greatest sin against God and crime humanity
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Peace Bigmo.
I disagree, some people practise " Shirk" but think they are guided.
Qoran confirms this.That is why" the majority who believe in God commit idol worship
Peace.
Gree with you.
but how do they ? do they say there is some one other then God almighty, or do they follow/ do according to other then commandments of God?
Try it ask a million Muslims, they will all deny anyone other then God Almighty and yet most will be doing certain things which are totally in opositon to the commandment of God, which to me is shirk.
As is slavery also.
peace -
"Some do not even know they are committing " Shirk". So it can be vague!"
Shrik is not something someone can be involved in without knowing. It also is not something you just commit but its something you believe and accept. Its the theology behind the act that determines shirk and not just the act itself.
http//www.adf.org/articles/cosmology/discussing-pagan-theology.html
Norse creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_OBq865VjI&feature=related
Hinduism creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTy49JlgJZE
Ancient Egyptian creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNxZqINCyj4
Ancient Greek creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=75kDb2OqBWI&feature=related
The Incas creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayR4zAV43qk&feature=related
Germanic creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4-hnhqVPmw&feature=related
Shinto creation story.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=koxp_q46z0Q
Aboriginal creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3XoYZgvEH8
Some native American creation story
Even a casual glance at these shirk theologies we can see its not something people can be involved in without knowing what they are getting into. Its certainly the furthest thing from vagueness you can ever imagine. No follower of shirk can ever defend himself. Its a mockery of the divine and nothing else.
Does it say it is the theolgy behind the action anywhere in the quran or is this your own opinion?
hmm
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Does it say it is the theolgy behind the action anywhere in the quran or is this your own opinion?
hmm
This is a reality of what actually exists. This is the shirk that was praticed across mankind. There are many such verses of the Quran.
1742 - Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne."
2122 - If there were in them (the Heavens and the Earth) other gods besides ALLAH, there would have been chaos. Glory be to ALLAH; the Lord with absolute authority. He is high above their claims.
2391 - ALLAH has never begotten a son. Nor was there any other god beside Him. Otherwise, each god would have declared independence with his creations, and they would have competed with each other for dominance. ALLAH be glorified; far above their claims.
1651 - ALLAH has proclaimed "Do not worship two gods; there is only one god. You shall reverence Me alone."
This notion that the pagans of Mecca used to believe in one God but simply praticed tawassul is a myth
I found this on the web
What is idolatry?
3125 - If you ask them, "Who created the Heavens and the Earth," they will say, "ALLAH." Say, "Praise be to ALLAH." Yet, most of them do not know.
Comment
Most people, though they agree that ALLAH created everything, still have doubts. That is why they disregard ALLAH's commands. This constitutes idolatry
http//www.godprovenas1.com/purpose/proofs_that_God_is_One.html
See this is the mistake. They understood that verse wrong. This is the same argument Muhamamd Ibn Abdul Wahhab, the founder of wahhabism, claimed. He claimed that the pagans of Mecca accepted God as the sole creator and sustainer but were mushriks because they practiced tawassul. This is not correct by a long shot.
The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah
The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir?awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says ?Say (to the disbelievers) ?Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!? They will say ?It is Allah? ? Say ?Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?? They will say ?Allah? ? Say ?In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?? They will say ?(All this belongs) to Allah.?
However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah?s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say ?We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.? Calling upon Allah for one?s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed ?They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say ?These are only our intercessors with Allah.?
Thus, Allah declared their act of seeking intercession with Allah as Shirk and termed them as Kafirun and Mushrikeen. He ordered His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) to proclaim, ?I worship not that, which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that you are worshiping, nor will you worship that which I worship.? These verses of the Noble Qur?aan establish the importance of the Tawheed of worship along with the Tawheed of Lordship.
Essential Points From the above, we understand that the Arab Pagans, despite their ignorance and arrogance, completely understood the meaning of Ibaadah (worship). They believed that intercession is a form of worship, and did not deny that calling upon pious people amounted to worshiping them. They would call their idols, ?Aaliha?(pl. of Ilah lit. meaning, One, who is worshiped). This is in sharp contrast of the belief of the grave-worshipers of today, who make the engraved as intercessors with Allah, and yet do not consider it to be Shirk!!
http//www.ahya.org/tjonline/eng/02/1tawheed.html
This is simply incorrect. the pagans of Mecca did not believe in any kind of tawheed, they would not be pagans if they did.
This all started because of verses such as thisL
3125 - If you ask them, "Who created the Heavens and the Earth," they will say, "ALLAH." Say, "Praise be to ALLAH." Yet, most of them do not know
31.3 If indeed thou ask them who it is that created the heavens and the earth, they would be sure to say, "Allah". Say "See ye then? the things that ye invoke besides Allah,- can they, if Allah wills some Penalty for me, remove His Penalty?- Or if He wills some Grace for me, can they keep back his Grace?" Say "Sufficient is Allah for me! In Him trust those who put their trust
Than they claimed that this is proof that the pagans of Mecca believed in tawheed but were still mushriks because of other reasons. No pagan will believe in any kind of tawheed or else he wouldn't be a pagan by definition. That is why some people are labelling the term shirk on many things that has nothing to do with shirk.
Now watch this and you will see what these verses are saying
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujY2pepGmo
He is claiming that hindusim is actually monoteism with a polytheistic naming and imagining of God. Just like the pagans of Mecca claimed that their paganism is a monotheistic religion but with a polytheistic intercessions. They would not abandon their gods for nobody.
Meanwhile this guy is stating exactly what the verses are saying.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRHwn2XKU&feature=related
He says
"Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers."
Just like the verses are telling us.
In the end they would not change because that is how they were raised. Its all defensive argument and trying to distort what paganism and shirk is by trying to justify it. Even a casual glance at the pagans theology we know that no sane mind can accept it. So humans need a defense mechanism. The Quran will not accept that argument and said the real reason is they do not want to abandon what thier ancestors did even if their ancestor were silly.
To understand the verses of the Quran you need to understand who its refering to. By debating pagans as the prophet did you will understand what these verses are saying. That video says it all.
Now look at their actual aqeeda
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yWwFWpbRo
Need I need to say more?
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Peace,
I will jump in here for a couple of points-
The word shirk in arabic is used to refer to association on equal footing, or with similar abilities... as Allah is the supreme being, how can he have an association with His creation... as anything other than Allah is created...
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Slavery is not shirk, as serfdom is not shirk, and being denied rights is not shirk, these are injustice cases, and those who are victims to them have the right to improve their lot... but they can only do so if they can defend themselves and/or change the circumstances around them to allow for a change of structure to the Society in which they live in...
Slavery was institutionalised and was once upon a time part of normal practice, this is why Allah in the Quran did not confront it head on...
It is the same as the modern concept of class and status...
Depending on your social standing, there are serious implications to your way of life and comfort... We see this every single day, and everywhere...
Worse, you are discriminated upon if you are dark skinned or from the third world as opposed to if you are a white westerner (this includes a little enclave of brothers in the ME too) - such as their life is more valuable, they have more rights, and such ...
This is a status quo imposed by stealth, and accepted as the de facto way of managing human affairs...
We might not be slaves to particular individuals, but we are now slaves to organisations, institutions and legal frameworks that are running the show... In effect partitioning us into reserves according to varying criteria... This is mass slavery...
Now are you going to call this shirk too...
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Shirk = As follows
I want to visit my friend but I don?t know the location of his house. He guided me with facts, how to reach there. I believed what he said and started my journey but half way through, I stopped and asked somebody to guide me towards that place and continued thereafter but couldn?t reach there. I called my friend that I lost my way. He guided me again, but couldn?t help me reach the target because I am continuously involving others (who don?t know my friend?s house). I am not doing with purpose, but the fact is I can?t reach there unless I follow him alone and follow his guidance.
Why Shirk is unforgivable = As follows
My friend does not hold any grudge against me if I can?t find his house OR if I ask others (ignorant people) to help me guide to his house. He did not announce any unforgivable punishment if I can?t reach his home and/or if I can?t follow his guidance. He is simply telling me that it is my wish to reach him (and not his wish that I find him or his house). At my request, he is helping me with his guidance in various forms + on a number of occasions. The outcome is that if I believe in shirk OR commit shirk OR both, I would never reach the target and would be completely lost + run out of gas and my car will stop.Conclusion
He is not having a python (for instance) to punish me if I ask others for guidance. He is not concerned if I believe him or others. He doesn?t mind if say that I believe him but follow others guidelines in order to find the way to reach his home. Furthermore, whenever I called him, he is responding to my calls and trying to guide me despite my ignorance, lack of faith in his guidance, whatever. Eventually, if don?t reach where I was supposed to, its my lookout and I will face the consequences but he is not preparing any ground for punishment. He is Al-Samad. -
Patanahi, Salam,
Interesting parable, however you cannot confine Allah's request to any similtude but one that He makes Himself...
There is also important distinctions to be made between Shirk and Kufr...
Which is it that Allah does not tolerate most Kufr or Shirk - there is an Ayat that says explicitly what Allah does not tolerate from His Humans' Creation...