Debating a Salafi
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Somehow, after about three years, I found a chance/desire to post the debate... Since we did not record it professionally, the sound quality is poorer than I wanted to be.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MZSibvupDo
Peace,
Edip -
Peace Edip,
I watched the video - it's a nice debate to watch, and I picked up on a lot of issues within the discussion. Marsha'Allah.
To be honest, here are some things which I picked up on, which may help you in the future (I hope you don't mind honest comments and critism)
The Salafi brother was very chasismatic, except when he was getting angry, and his voice in gerenal was clearer than yours is.
However, his charisma is copy-cat. I have personally heard the same jokes he used to make the audience laugh many (and I mean many) times before. I have heard sheikhs use the same jokes, I have heard brothers use the same jokes when I attended a tableighi school in London, I have heard brothers which came to my town on "jamaat" using the same jokes, and I have heard Da'ee's from TV use the exact same jokes. (Thus, my conclusion is that this is taught)Another point I picked up on was when the salafi brother mentioned that the book on eating is the same size as the Qur'an. WOW. No wonder I don't know a single Sunni/Salafi muslim who reads the Qur'an a lot, if they need to read a book the same size just to find out how to eat. (The references to the Qur'an posted on this forum make clear that the Qur'an is the only source of religious instruction needed, the hadith will/have lead people astray, and only the pure read the Qur'an often)
I also noticed their were chaps sitting inbetween you.... why was this? I have never seen it in a debate before?
Furthermore I picked up something which you yourself clearly picked up on during the debate (because you mentioned it)... which is when the brother said "Allah" he didn't glorify Him who deserves to be glorified. However he would glorify Muhammad.
There is no teaching the Qur'an to glorify Muhammad - Qur'an always teachs to glorify Allah alone.
Other than these points, I think the debate went rather well. To be honest the salafi was getting angry a lot, but this is because he is trained to get mad when somebody talks about the prophet or his following generations.
However, considering I have heard everything he has said before (and I haven't even heard this brother before) and I have seen the same style before - It is clear that he is blindly following. A robot. Which Qur'an condemns.
Many people may want to argue or hurt me for saying this - but it is an observation I have made - and when you think for yourself, and observe, I don't know a single muslim who wouldn't come to the same conclusion.
I would also like to make it clear that Edip is NOT trying to destroy Islam or it's history. He is trying to revive the real Islam taught by Allah in His Qur'an.
"They planned and plotted but Allah is the best of planners" - Allah made the Qur'an in a way that is can not be edited, it can not changed, He protected it.
Allah did not protect the hadith - and Allah warns about the hadith numerous times. He uses the example of Moses people asking the same trivial questions which lead them astray. How did it lead them astray? They set up partners with Allah, they followed other books other than the guidence He send down.
IMHO As soon as somebody says that they are a "Sunni/Shia/Sufi/Salafi/etc." they are breaking an important rule in the Qur'an - Do NOT cause divisions in the religion. Simply by saying that you are Sunni, you are causing a division and helping the division to be there.
"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" - by even saying "I am Sunni" or "I am Shia", you are part of the problem and big sin of causing divisions in the religion. The only way not to be part of the problem and be part of the solution is to not say that you belong to a division - do NOT belong to a division - and simply be a Muslim (one who is submitting to the will of Allah, not the will of anybody else)
That's my honest thoughts and opinions on the matter. I'm sure much more can be said, but I have never debated with a muslim on stage in a controlled enviornment and I have certainly never done this in a muslim country, so who am I to speak.
Praise and Glory be Allah alone, and well done in your efforts to try and re-establish the sunnah of Allah, the way which has no errors and no changes.
Peace,
Steven -
Thank you Steven for your feedback. Where do you live Steven?
Peace,
Edip -
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I live in a small town in England called Ipswich.
Why does everyone keep asking me that question
Peace,
Steven -
well done edip! We are proud of you
Keep in mind that in particular sunnism is all about controling people and their mind, and when the sunnis loose that control, it threatens their whole ideology and that is why the salafi guy became so annoyed and angry although he tried his best not to show off his anger in order to avoid being labeled 'uncivilized' but basically he was a very typical stubborn hadither. Just watch how he after a while began to make personal attacks, as well as changing the subject in order to avoid the actual point.
If you notice it, you will see that these hadithers usually dont get angry while debating with non-muslims, but they become very angry and annoyed when debating former muslims or quran aloners because we are ''insiders'' who know their religion to depth as well as their weakness and secrets. Due to these obvious reasons, hadithers cannot fool us as they can fool non-muslims with their usual excuses.but hey you could see that salafi holy guys legs rotfl is that a sign of holiness )
Its only when you debate secular sunnis/shiites or sunnis/shiites who dont take their religion so serious, that you can expect some kind of agreement and understanding. I have spoken to some secular sunnis who agreed with me regarding hadith, but that didnt made them take any action since they already didnt gave religion any serious importance.
But good work Edip bravo
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So true... rotfl
yes if you are debating with him/her alone. But i would encourage public debates like what edip do not for the sake of the salafi but because creates focus on quran alone among common people who might get familiar with the point of view of quran aloners
Peace
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yes if you are debating with him/her alone. But i would encourage public debates like what edip do not for the sake of the salafi but because creates focus on quran alone among common people who might get familiar with the point of view of quran aloners
Peace
Peace Maha,
I agree with you handshake
mmKhan
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Another point I picked up on was when the salafi brother mentioned that the book on eating is the same size as the Qur'an. WOW. No wonder I don't know a single Sunni/Salafi muslim who reads the Qur'an a lot, if they need to read a book the same size just to find out how to eat. (The references to the Qur'an posted on this forum make clear that the Qur'an is the only source of religious instruction needed, the hadith will/have lead people astray, and only the pure read the Qur'an often)
Peace Steven,
I liked your entire post, but the above part stood out to me. Most of them don't even read the Qur'an, and if they do, they tend to read it blindly, not really getting anything out of it. The hadith and rituals are so distracting...no wonder they have no time to read it. Now that I have stopped following those things, I have plenty of time (and desire) to read my Qu'ran. )
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you want to see the size of the book on water to wash with!
Anyway, just watching this and done the first hour so far. The salafi guys body language is fun to watch but he's just claimed he had no idea what Edip was talking about as it was all rubbish, made perfect sense to me! salafi man doesn't seem to have a clue what he's talking about and less clue what's in Quran!! rotfl
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Finished watching brickwall brickwall Edip definitely won that one but they do not 'see' it at all......they can't distinguish the prophet Muhammed and Bukhari at all, they just can't get it and I've had the same argument with many hadithist, they have a blockage brickwall
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Finished watching brickwall brickwall Edip definitely won that one but they do not 'see' it at all......they can't distinguish the prophet Muhammed and Bukhari at all, they just can't get it and I've had the same argument with many hadithist, they have a blockage brickwall
Ayisha,
You are so on point!! Just this morning I thought about that...I don't have any doubt in the word of the Prophet...I doubt the sources who claim that he said it. )
Peace,
Amina
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Finished watching brickwall brickwall Edip definitely won that one but they do not 'see' it at all......they can't distinguish the prophet Muhammed and Bukhari at all, they just can't get it and I've had the same argument with many hadithist, they have a blockage brickwall
Salaam Ayisha,
Red part Not only blockage still more and the reason for it is in 1745-46
1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam Ayisha,
Red part Not only blockage still more and the reason for it is in 1745-46
1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanbravo
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Salaam Ayisha,
Red part Not only blockage still more and the reason for it is in 1745-46
1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanYes, I have had much experience of this phenomenon in hadithists, it's like you might as well be telling them to follow the devil if you quote Quran at them and they react like I am some sort of satanic messenger! hypno
The blockage though is that they cannot understand that I'm not dissing the prophet as they can't get past that the hadith are NOT from him. They assume I'm saying you need nothing but Quran because I DON'T want to follow the messenger, they can't understand that I AM. They prefer to think God's messenger a pedophile, a murderer, a torturer who forced a new law onto us that we can be whipped and burnt for if we don't follow......such as the burning them in their homes for not hurrying to prayer.......and so many have never even heard that hadith. They can't see that if they want to follow the prophet's sunnah its in Quran anyway. brickwall
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Yes, I have had much experience of this phenomenon in hadithists, it's like you might as well be telling them to follow the devil if you quote Quran at them and they react like I am some sort of satanic messenger! hypno
The blockage though is that they cannot understand that I'm not dissing the prophet as they can't get past that the hadith are NOT from him. They assume I'm saying you need nothing but Quran because I DON'T want to follow the messenger, they can't understand that I AM. They prefer to think God's messenger a pedophile, a murderer, a torturer who forced a new law onto us that we can be whipped and burnt for if we don't follow......such as the burning them in their homes for not hurrying to prayer.......and so many have never even heard that hadith. They can't see that if they want to follow the prophet's sunnah its in Quran anyway. brickwall
Salaam,
So right! As per my experience, Mohammed is everything for them far more than Allah. When I quoted them aayaats, they say, no, we cannot accept it because hadith say otherwise. & It was so scary for me and it was nothing for them.
And I totally agree with you with that satanic messenger thing.
May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan