3 Prayers makes more sense than 5.

mmkhan

Peace mmkhan,

Please explain what verse 20130 is about.

Expand on "Please read what Ayisha wrote TILL, Arabic word is ILA used for that"

Peace O0

Peace brother Hawk99,

20130
20130 So be patient over what they say and routine with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night routine and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

There is not word Salaat mentioned in 20130, so it is not referring to Salaat at all.

1778
1778 Straighten alSalaat at the sinking of the sun until the darkness of the night and reading of the dawn. Indeed, reading of dawn is ever witnessed.

As per your understanding a single alSalaat has to be straighten from noon TILL darkness of the night. And ila means till, you can check in 56.

56
56 O you who have believed, when you rise to prayer, wash your faces and your forearms TILL the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.

Hope this may help you inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Ayisha

Peace Ayisha,

The sun begins its decline after high noon (Zhuhr) then moves thru the middle afternoon (Asr)
then sets (maghrib) until the darkness (Isha)

What do you think of 20130 is it 5 salat?

Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise (1)and before sunset(2). And during the night (3)glorify Him, as well at both (4)(5)ends of the day, that you may be happy.

Peace O0

even if you did take that as prayer time I would still say that before sunrise and before sunset are the same as both ends of the day. Both ends of the day prayers to me would be Fajr and Maghrib. I agree with mmkhan though, that is not about prayer (salat) it's about praise, the idea being have constant praise of God in all you do all the time. Alhamdulillah.

good_logic

Peace wasi.

Add your question to my list of questions that need clarifying from Qoran.

Peace.

unknownuser

Salaam Steven,

Salaats are not named but they are written on time. I am copying what I wrote on other threads.

I posted in another place

Please click here to see about AlSalaat AlWusta, inshaAllah.

Hope this may help you inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Okay...you have got me to thinking now... hmm

mmkhan

Okay...you have got me to thinking now... hmm

Salaam Amina,

Allah Book is very clean and detailed. Many things can be understood by the patterns and designs set in aayaats without actually knowing Arabic grammar. This is how AlQuraan guides mankind 2185. But you should at least know how to read AlQuraan )

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

youssef4342

I do supprt the 3 salat theory fully. Watch my video if you haven't
How to do salat from the Quran alone (video)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6iL9EhBnsI&feature=plcp

Part 4 How many Daily salats are there?

Support #1) Only 3 names of Salat are Cited In the Quran
We find that there are only 3 Names of Salats in the Quran, (i.e Al-Fajr, Al-Esha, Al-Wusta 2458 & 223. This means that there has to be only 3 Salats. This is because the Quran states that it is not missing anything (63, and so, if there is 3 Names of Salats mentioned, then logically, there has to only be 3 daily Salats.

Support #2) 3 timings of prayer are cited in the previous scriptures
We find that there are also 3 times of prayer in the previous scriptures

Old Testament 3 Times of prayer

?Evening and morning and at noon I utter my complaint and moan, and he will hear my voice?
(Psalm 5517 RSV)

?Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray,.... These being the stated times of prayer with the Jews, and which continued to later ages, Daniel 610. These times, they say (b), were fixed by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob the morning prayer by Abraham, according to Genesis 223, the prayer of the "minchah" by Isaac, according to Genesis 2463; and the evening prayer by Jacob, according to Genesis 2811? (Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Note, Psalm 5517 gives us three time periods of prayer which are in direct line with the Quranic 3 time period of salat.
?Evening and morning and at noon I utter my complaint and moan, and he will hear my voice? (Psalm 5517 RSV)

Salat Al-Esha (245 = Evening time
Salat Al-Fajr (245 = Dawn time
Salat Al-Wusta (2458 & 223 = Daylight time.

?When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem; and he got down upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously." (Daniel 610 RSV)

Note The Aramaic word used for the word ?prayed? is (Tsela or &#1492 . This would make it a direct cognate of the Arabic verb "prayed" (Sala or )
http//new.studylight.org/lex/heb/hwview.cgi?n=6739
http//www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/tsela-aramaic.html )

New Testament
Moreover, the New Testament's also cite 3 timings for prayer
3rd hour (Acts 21)
6th hour (Acts 109)
9th hour (Acts 31)
Note The hour system was based on a 12 hour day/night complex. The first hour/morning began around 6 a.m., and the day ended around 6 p.m.

Clarke's Commentary on the Bible writes, ?It appears that there were three hours of the day destined by the Jews to public prayer; perhaps they are referred to by David, Psalm 5517 Evening and Morning, and at Noon, will I pray and cry aloud. ?There are three distinct times marked in the book of the Acts. The Third hour, Acts 215, answering, as we have already seen, to nearly our nine o'clock in the morning; the Sixth hour, Acts 109, answering to about twelve with us; and the Ninth hour, mentioned in this verse, and answering to our three in the afternoon?

?It was also customary in the early Christian church to offer prayer at the third, sixth, and ninth hours (Clem. Alex. as quoted by Doddridge)? (Barnes' Notes on the Bible)

Support #3) Jews and Shia Muslims still Observe 3 timings of prayer
Jews today still have 3 daily prayer services, the Hebrew Tfillah Amidah (standing prayer)

In Psalm 5517, ?Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray,.... These being the stated times of prayer with the Jews, and which continued to later ages, Daniel 610. These times, they say (b), were fixed by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob the morning prayer by Abraham, according to Genesis 223, the prayer of the "minchah" by Isaac, according to Genesis 2463; and the evening prayer by Jacob, according to Genesis 2811? (Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Support #4) Hadiths cite doing salat at 3 times per day
Even Hadiths cite doing salat at 3 times per day
Sahih Muslim, Book 4, #1515, #1516, #1520, #1523

-Shia Muslims accept this very same tradition, that the Prophet Muhammed used to combine his salat into daily 3 timings, for the sake of convenience.

Note If the purpose of salat is to remember/contact God (2014), then in reality, those Muslims who combine their salats into 3 timings would really be doing salat 3 times daily, just spending extra time in doing more cycles of standing/bowing/prostrating (rak'at).

Muslim, Book 4, Number 1515
?Ibn 'Abbas reported The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed the noon and afternoon prayers together, and the sunset and Isha' prayers together without being in a state of fear or in a state of journey.?

Muslim, Book 4, Number 1516
?Ibn 'Abbas reported The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed the noon and afternoon prayers together in Medina without being in a state of fear or in a state of journey. (Abu Zubair said I asked Sa'id why he did that. He said I asked Ibn 'Abbas as you have asked me, and he replied that he wanted that no one among his Ummah should be put to hardship.)?

Wakas

peace all,

I haven't read all the thread.

Arabic "ila" primarily means "to" and implies motion, as per my understanding. The Arabic word "hatta" means "until".

In terms of the "3 salat daily" theory. Everyone is entitled to their own view, that is not an issue, however I have personally never seen anyone answer the questions/objections that have been discussed at length on this forum. I repeat, I have never seen anyone address them all.

The compilation thread is useful http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0

hawk99

Peace Ayisha

regarding 20130
Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise (1)and before sunset(2). And during the night (3)glorify Him, as well at both (4)(5)ends of the day, that you may be happy.

even if you did take that as prayer time I would still say that before sunrise and before sunset are the same as both ends of the day. Both ends of the day prayers to me would be Fajr and Maghrib. I agree with mmkhan though, that is not about prayer (salat) it's about praise, the idea being have constant praise of God in all you do all the time. Alhamdulillah.

There are 5 instances mentioned of glorification or praise of Allah that clearly coincides
with two times of prayer (as you stated Fajr and Magrib) continuing with that inference or line of thought wouldn't one conclude that the other 3 praises would be during salat as well?

This particular ayat does not infer

I agree with mmkhan though, that is not about prayer (salat) it's about praise, the idea being have constant praise of God in all you do all the time. Alhamdulillah.

even if you did take that as prayer time I would still say that before sunrise and before sunset are the same as both ends of the day.

Both ends of the day stated twice! that, my fellow believer would be a redundancy.

Peace O0

unknownuser

Peace Ayisha

regarding 20130
Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise (1)and before sunset(2). And during the night (3)glorify Him, as well at both (4)(5)ends of the day, that you may be happy.

There are 5 instances mentioned of glorification or praise of Allah that clearly coincides
with two times of prayer (as you stated Fajr and Magrib) continuing with that inference or line of thought wouldn't one conclude that the other 3 praises would be during salat as well?

This particular ayat does not infer
Both ends of the day stated twice! that, my fellow believer would be a redundancy.

Peace O0

Once I re-read it, I noticed it says BEFORE sunset, not after. The "ends of the day" are sunrise and sunset, right? Therefore the before sunset would indicate that there should be a prayer sometime during the time the sun is up.

There is your argument for the 3 prayers...ends of the day (sunrise and sunset) and before sunset (afternoon?).

Peace,

Amina

hawk99

Once I re-read it, I noticed it says BEFORE sunset, not after. The "ends of the day" are sunrise and sunset, right? Therefore the before sunset would indicate that there should be a prayer sometime during the time the sun is up.

There is your argument for the 3 prayers...ends of the day (sunrise and sunset) and before sunset (afternoon?).
Peace,
Amina

Peace scaredmuslimah,

Yes, two times of salat are mentioned, the rest is left up to our intellect.
Anyway you slice it, it comes out to five of something and the hint (maybe for me only)
is the coincidence of the sunrise and sunset, which are salat times. This is why I
analogize salat with the khutbah which is not in the Quran.

Peace O0

unknownuser

Peace scaredmuslimah,

Yes, two times of salat are mentioned, the rest is left up to our intellect.
Anyway you slice it, it comes out to five of something and the hint (maybe for me only)
is the coincidence of the sunrise and sunset, which are salat times. This is why I
analogize salat with the khutbah which is not in the Quran.

Peace O0

I see...

Wakas

peace hawk,

I'm not sure if you are implying 5 daily salat, but in any case, from what you said, you seem to have simply re-hashed what has been discussed before. Principally, making a timed SaBiH a timed salat, even though they are different words, forces one to pick and choose from such verses with no other criteria other than confirming a pre-conceived notion, i.e. confirmation bias. If I have understood you correctly that is.

In any case, a reasonable discussion on this can be found here
http//quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.0

hawk99

Peace Wakas,
Thanks for the link, apparently this subject is a rehash as you stated.

I find the post from Joseph Islam intellectually stimulating. The approach from inside out,
that is, in such a way that the believer must endeavor to understand context.
Remember that Allah uses allegories, examples and simlitudes which require reflection
and understanding to decipher, which by themselves may not be binding or required
for salvation.

038.029
Kitabun anzalnahu ilayka mubarakun liyaddabbaroo ayatihi waliyatathakkara oloo al-albabi
PICKTHAL (This is) a Scripture that We have revealed unto thee, full of blessing, that they may ponder its revelations, and that men of understanding may reflect.
SHAKIR (It is) a Book We have revealed to you abounding in good that they may ponder over its verses, and that those endowed with understanding may be mindful.
KHALIFA This is a scripture that we sent down to you, that is sacred - perhaps they reflect on its verses. Those who possess intelligence will take heed.

Remember what is being recited in your homes of GOD's revelations and the wisdom inherent therein. GOD is Sublime, Cognizant.

Peace O0

hawk99

Peace brother Hawk99,

20130
20130 So be patient over what they say and routine with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night routine and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

There is not word Salaat mentioned in 20130, so it is not referring to Salaat at all.

1778
1778 Straighten alSalaat at the sinking of the sun until the darkness of the night and reading of the dawn. Indeed, reading of dawn is ever witnessed.

As per your understanding a single alSalaat has to be straighten from noon TILL darkness of the night. And ila means till, you can check in 56.

56
56 O you who have believed, when you rise to prayer, wash your faces and your forearms TILL the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.
Hope this may help you inshaAllah.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Peace mmKhan,

"Routine" is grammatically incorrect.
"Straighten" is also grammatically incorrect.

I appreciate your effort tho

thanks

Peace O0

mmkhan

Peace mmKhan,

"Routine" is grammatically incorrect.
"Straighten" is also grammatically incorrect.

I appreciate your effort tho

thanks

Peace O0

Peace Hawk,

You mean, it is incorrect in English grammatically? If so, please do correct me as my English is very poor.

Thanks for the correction.
mmKhan

hawk99

Peace Hawk,
You mean, it is incorrect in English grammatically? If so, please do correct me as my English is very poor.
Thanks for the correction.
mmKhan

Peace mmkhan,

Yes, incorrect in English grammatically

Routine

usual pattern of activity the usual sequence for a set of activities
something repetitive something that is unvarying or boringly repetitive
"a life of mindless routine"
rehearsed performance a rehearsed set of movements, actions, or speeches that make up a performance
"her gymnastic routine on the parallel bars"
part of computer program a part of a computer program that performs a task
" a dump routine"
ADJECTIVE
usual or standard regular or standard and not out of the ordinary
"carrying out routine maintenance"
repetitive boringly predictable, monotonous, and unchanging
"found the work pretty routine"

020.130
Faisbir AAala ma yaqooloona wasabbih bihamdi rabbika qabla tulooAAi alshshamsi waqabla ghuroobiha wamin ana-i allayli fasabbih waatrafa alnnahari laAAallaka tarda
YUSUFALI Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy.
PICKTHAL Therefor (O Muhammad), bear with what they say, and celebrate the praise of thy Lord ere the rising of the sun and ere the going down thereof. And glorify Him some hours of the night and at the two ends of the day, that thou mayst find acceptance.
SHAKIR Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts of the day, that you may be well pleased
KHALIFA Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.

Peace O0

mmkhan

Peace mmkhan,

Yes, incorrect in English grammatically

Routine

usual pattern of activity the usual sequence for a set of activities
something repetitive something that is unvarying or boringly repetitive
"a life of mindless routine"
rehearsed performance a rehearsed set of movements, actions, or speeches that make up a performance
"her gymnastic routine on the parallel bars"
part of computer program a part of a computer program that performs a task
" a dump routine"
ADJECTIVE
usual or standard regular or standard and not out of the ordinary
"carrying out routine maintenance"
repetitive boringly predictable, monotonous, and unchanging
"found the work pretty routine"

Peace brother Hawk,

This means what I wrote is correct! How do you found it wrong?

mmKhan

Ayisha

Peace brother Hawk,

This means what I wrote is correct! How do you found it wrong?

mmKhan

because you 'do something IN' a routine, you don't do routine, or you routinely do something. You can't say go do a routine without specifying what to do in the routine.

if that makes sense peace