Qiblah...searched but found no answer
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Peace all...
This thread is starting to remind me of a small part in a movie called Collision Course which starred Pat Morita and Jay Leno. Language barriers proved hilarious...like "You have to much mousse in your hair" immediately got a response from Pat as he thought of an actual "moose" in a person's hair. Good movie if you have never seen it.
The term "facing" seems to be expressed or comprehended differently in English versus Arabic. To me, facing means that the front of my body is in a certain direction. Right now as I am at my desk, I am facing northwest-ish. I am also face to face with my computer screen. To me, they mean the same thing.
When I looked it up, I came up with the same results that uq did. I tried Lane's Lexicon, but couldn't make out the characters to save my life (of course, I don't know Arabic).
So I think it is possible to be "facing" something although not directly in front of it.
Peace,
Amina
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Peace all...
This thread is starting to remind me of a small part in a movie called Collision Course which starred Pat Morita and Jay Leno. Language barriers proved hilarious...like "You have to much mousse in your hair" immediately got a response from Pat as he thought of an actual "moose" in a person's hair. Good movie if you have never seen it.
The term "facing" seems to be expressed or comprehended differently in English versus Arabic. To me, facing means that the front of my body is in a certain direction. Right now as I am at my desk, I am facing northwest-ish. I am also face to face with my computer screen. To me, they mean the same thing.
When I looked it up, I came up with the same results that uq did. I tried Lane's Lexicon, but couldn't make out the characters to save my life (of course, I don't know Arabic).
So I think it is possible to be "facing" something although not directly in front of it.
Peace,
Amina
The problem in exactly translating the perception of this Arabic word to English is explicitly highlighted by about three red parts. Weldone.
In English "face to face" has restricted meaning, actual presence of another person in direct contact with. This is one aspect of Arabic word, but we do not have exact synonym in English to transcribe when one person is face to face a thing not in direct contact of him but at a far distance with many things present in between the both. Facing nortwest is not included in Arabic word since nothing is in front. When we will use this Arabic word for face to face a direction, the direction will have to be mentioned specifically.
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The problem in exactly translating the perception of this Arabic word to English is explicitly highlighted by about three red parts. Weldone.
In English "face to face" has restricted meaning, actual presence of another person in direct contact with. This is one aspect of Arabic word, but we do not have exact synonym in English to transcribe when one person is face to face a thing not in direct contact of him but at a far distance with many things present in between the both. Facing nortwest is not included in Arabic word since nothing is in front. When we will use this Arabic word for face to face a direction, the direction will have to be mentioned specifically.
I see...so then does qiblah mean"facing directly," as if someone is standing right in front of something?
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I see...so then does qiblah mean"facing directly," as if someone is standing right in front of something?
Yes, that portrays when we add another object to it "facing directly-----" .
This is indicated in the Episode when on throwing his staff, Musa alahissalam saw it becoming living Cobra, he ran away from the site by turning in opposite direction and he was not looking behind. He seems very knowlegable about Cobra that it can spray poison from distance targeting eyes. Allah the Exalted asked him to come back to the location, face to face with Cobra.
and that "you throw in front your stick".
Thereat, when he realized that it was moving at her own accord, as if that was a Cobra
he turned away in opposite direction with his back towards snake and he did not see behind.
"O Musa! You turn back to the same place facing it directly and do not fear; Indeed you are amongst the protected/secured ones " -
From http//corpus.quran.com
Verb form 4
(12712) wa-aqbal
(12828 ) aqbaln
(283114) aqbil
(37271) wa-aqbala
(37501) fa-aqbala
(37941) fa-aqbal
(51291) fa-aqbalati
(52251) wa-aqbala
(68301) fa-aqbalaVerb Form 1
Noun
(21428 ) qib'latihimu
(214315) l-qib'lata
(21448 ) qib'latan
(214510) qib'lataka
(214514) qib'latahum
(214518 ) qib'lata
(108712) qib'latan -
From http//corpus.quran.com
Verb form 4
(12712) wa-aqbal
(12828 ) aqbaln
(283114) aqbil
(37271) wa-aqbala
(37501) fa-aqbala
(37941) fa-aqbal
(51291) fa-aqbalati
(52251) wa-aqbala
(68301) fa-aqbalaVerb Form 1
Noun
(21428 ) qib'latihimu
(214315) l-qib'lata
(21448 ) qib'latan
(214510) qib'lataka
(214514) qib'latahum
(214518 ) qib'lata
(108712) qib'latanPeace Wakas,
Thanks for the ayats
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Peace mmkhan,
Yes it possible for everyone to "face" a single point.First the Illustration is incorrect because the individual is not "Facing" Mecca.
Let me reillustrate If person A is facing person B and person C stepped between
persons A and B, Person A would still be "facing" person B irregardless of Person C
standing between them.Does this make sense?
Peace Hawk,
You said it is possible but did not prove it. hmm
In fact that individual IS facing Kaaba in that illustration. I am wondering how did you missed it? What you illustrated is not my question. I wanted to show that earth is round/oval so look at the arrows shown, it is not possible to face in far away direction as you will be pointing straight as red arrow shown and cannot be like the purple arrow shown in that image.
Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid; wherever you might be, you shall turn your faces (during Salat) towards it. Thus, the people will have no argument against you, except the transgressors among them. Do not fear them, and fear Me instead. I will then perfect My blessings upon you, that you may be guided.
Peace O0
Thanks for the aayat.
You did not actually answer my question. Please re read my question.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan,
It is important to understand that it does not matter what is between A and B
no matter if it's a person a mountain an ocean or the earth itself we are to face not travel to the kaaba,
we do not have to go around the earth to face the kaaba.
We can actually face thru the earth itself.
This my understanding of facing an object.I hope this is helpful
Peace O0
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Peace mmkhan,
It is important to understand that it does not matter what is between A and B
no matter if it's a person a mountain an ocean or the earth itself we are to face not travel to the kaaba,
we do not have to go around the earth to face the kaaba.
We can actually face thru the earth itself.
This my understanding of facing an object.I hope this is helpful
Peace O0
Peace Hawk,
I understand that mountains or ocean or anyone else does not matter if they are between a person facing towards Kaaba and Kaaba itself. But as you wrote "thru the earth" Is it really possible? Do you mean, we have to face downwards on earth if we are in North and Kaaba is in South? Is it possible from all locations on earth? hmm
nope I don't think so. What could be the reason Allah ask us to do so, I did not understand any reason behind it.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan,
Yes thru the earth itself because obstacle B is obstacle B no matter the density.
therefore the Quran is correct when it statesWe have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.
Another way to look at it is to use the latitude and longitude of point A and B.
For instance I live in Philadelphia which is located at approx. latitude 40.027614
longitude -75.245361
While Mecca is latitude 21.416667 longitude 39.816667So from Philadelphia to Mecca is roughly 40 minus 21 latitude and 75 minus 39 longitude.
21 is south of 40 and 39 is east of 75
So in this case I would "face" southeast.
Remember I am not moving but facing.Please correct me if I am wrong
Thanks for you patience O0 -
Peace mmkhan,
Yes thru the earth itself because obstacle B is obstacle B no matter the density.
therefore the Quran is correct when it statesWe have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.
Another way to look at it is to use the latitude and longitude of point A and B.
For instance I live in Philadelphia which is located at approx. latitude 40.027614
longitude -75.245361
While Mecca is latitude 21.416667 longitude 39.816667So from Philadelphia to Mecca is roughly 40 minus 21 latitude and 75 minus 39 longitude.
21 is south of 40 and 39 is east of 75
So in this case I would "face" southeast.
Remember I am not moving but facing.Please correct me if I am wrong
Thanks for you patience O0Peace bro,
hypno
I am sorry to disagree with you brother.2278
2278 And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you ?Muslims? before and in this that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper.Please click here to see other translations.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.
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Perhaps its just me and my limited understanding, but I really cannot see the point in directing one's face in the direction of the kaaba. The only useful thing I can see with that is that it gives those people who wish to stand in groups of rows and lines, to have a direction given, so that there is no discussion how to line up. This would however be a small practical issue... and not a major thing at all as it only relates to that specific group you're in at that moment. If there is another group in another location, you wouldn't see them anyway, so in practicality it doesn't matter how they are lined up, as far as your own line up is concerned.
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I also cannot see how those who received the previous scriptures will see the facing of kaaba (2D surface direction) as the truth. If we take the current christians and jews, assuming it is they who are the recipients of previous scriptures, then I really don't think they see the truth in it. If it is not about jews and christians, then who is it about? Shouldn't it be some folks that are around these days? Otherwise, what's the point of the verse? So what's wrong here? Is it not they who are the people referred to, or is the subject matter not at all a geo-spatial facing of some point on the globe (kaaba)?
I suspect that the fault lies, as usual, in our understanding of the arabic words. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. Personally I think that the answer is more general, universal and spiritual, than it is physical, but I don't know what it is.
Just some thoughts
Peace -
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Peace bro,
hypno
I am sorry to disagree with you brother.2278
2278 And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you Muslims before and in this that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper.
Please click here to see other translations.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanPeace mmkhan,
Are you saying that you disagree because of the difficulty in understanding what
was replied or do you have other information regarding the subject.- Perhaps its just me and my limited understanding, but I really cannot see the point in directing one's face in the direction of the kaaba. The only useful thing I can see with that is that it gives those people who wish to stand in groups of rows and lines, to have a direction given, so that there is no discussion how to line up. This would however be a small practical issue... and not a major thing at all as it only relates to that specific group you're in at that moment. Just some thoughts
Peace
Peace Zulf,
Your "limited" understanding is correct, this deen is practical not difficult.
Facing is for organizational purposes, like all other rituals. (oops I used the "R" word)
Initially it was a test, to see who would obey the revelation.... and not a major thing at all as it only relates to that specific group you're in at that moment. If there is another group in another location, you wouldn't see them anyway, so in practicality it doesn't matter how they are lined up, as far as your own line up is concerned.
Just some thoughts
PeaceBut Allah has commanded us to have only one qiblah.
Peace O0
- Perhaps its just me and my limited understanding, but I really cannot see the point in directing one's face in the direction of the kaaba. The only useful thing I can see with that is that it gives those people who wish to stand in groups of rows and lines, to have a direction given, so that there is no discussion how to line up. This would however be a small practical issue... and not a major thing at all as it only relates to that specific group you're in at that moment. Just some thoughts
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Yes, that portrays when we add another object to it "facing directly-----" .
This is indicated in the Episode when on throwing his staff, Musa alahissalam saw it becoming living Cobra, he ran away from the site by turning in opposite direction and he was not looking behind. He seems very knowlegable about Cobra that it can spray poison from distance targeting eyes. Allah the Exalted asked him to come back to the location, face to face with Cobra.
and that "you throw in front your stick".
Thereat, when he realized that it was moving at her own accord, as if that was a Cobra
he turned away in opposite direction with his back towards snake and he did not see behind.
"O Musa! You turn back to the same place facing it directly and do not fear; Indeed you are amongst the protected/secured ones "Mazar,
Thank you. I understand now.
Peace,
Amina
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peace to all
Can any body find for me the word SALAT from verse 2142 to 149. If not then why you are breaking your heads?
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). 1736
The Qibla, which is untranslated 6 times in these verses, is the MASJID AL HARAM and not KAABA.
We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers and give glad tidings to those who believe!"
THE QIBLA in verse 1087 is translated but as "PLACE OF WORSHIP"
Ask yourself, why this forgery?
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peace to all
Can any body find for me the word SALAT from verse 2142 to 149. If not then why you are breaking your heads?
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). 1736
The Qibla, which is untranslated 6 times in these verses, is the MASJID AL HARAM and not KAABA.
We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers and give glad tidings to those who believe!"
THE QIBLA in verse 1087 is translated but as "PLACE OF WORSHIP"
Ask yourself, why this forgery?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrah
http//www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1353
2.145 Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong
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peace to all
Can any body find for me the word SALAT from verse 2142 to 149. If not then why you are breaking your heads?
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). 1736
The Qibla, which is untranslated 6 times in these verses, is the MASJID AL HARAM and not KAABA.
We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers and give glad tidings to those who believe!"
THE QIBLA in verse 1087 is translated but as "PLACE OF WORSHIP"
Ask yourself, why this forgery?
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the heaven; We will thus
set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you ?You shall set
yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may
be, you shall all set yourselves towards it.? Those who have been
given the Book know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is
not unaware of what you do.Isn't that what a temple is for...worship? Whether it says salah or not...I think the implication is more than enough.
Peace,
Amina
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2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the heaven; We will thus
set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you ?You shall set
yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may
be, you shall all set yourselves towards it.? Those who have been
given the Book know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is
not unaware of what you do.Isn't that what a temple is for...worship? Whether it says salah or not...I think the implication is more than enough.
Peace,
Amina
We are indeed continuously watching, O you the Messenger, the frequent turning of your face into the Sky.
For this reason, We swear-assure you that We will certainly give you the guardianship of the Qib'la'tan.
Fulfillment of this promise will make you persistently pleased.
Therefore, keep fronting face to the Sacred Mosque so long you are out-away from it.
And, wherever and from whatever direction you people-believers have exited from it, thereat, purposely cause your selves face to face that Mosque, when you are away from it.
Know the fact that the people whom Book was given earlier certainly understand that this promise of guardianship in the Grand Qur'aan is an established fact ordained by their Sustainer Lord.
Beware, Allah the Exalted is never unmindful about that which acts they people are/keep doing. -
They are not translating at the moment. They are selecting individual words out of seven translations.
They are compiling grammar aspect. I am on their credit list as volunteer annotator.
Annotation
[Special thanks to volunteers who performed initial manual annotation and supervised other annotators during online proofreading, and to those who made significant contributions to the annotation guidelines?Imen Touchene - London, United Kingdom
?Abdul-Baquee M. Sharaf - University of Leeds
?Abdul Rahman Adnan - Shah Alam, Malaysia
?Fatma Said - Birkbeck College, University of London
?Mazhar Anwar Nurani - Quran researcher, Pakistan
?Teuku Edward - Quran researcher, Indonesia
http//corpus.quran.com/contact.jspThe superb work Kais is doing is Sentence parsing through tree bank. Let it be completed, it will expose that translations-A to Z translator litttle cared about grammatical structuring of Arabic sentences, and that they all seldom tried to associate the prepositional phrases correctly in the sentences.
Since they are using other's translation, therefore, the morphological analysis must be seen side by side, because, translators put the meanings of Form-V Verb and Verbal Noun as if it were form I. And this distorts the entire message conveyed in the Ayah, never noticable by those who do not know Arabic.
2144 Tree bank
http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=2&verse=144
