Adultery
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What constitutes adultery in Islam if a man is allowed up to four wives?
Peace
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Peace )
41 O people, be aware of your Lord who has created you from one person and He created from it its mate and sent forth from it many men and many women; and be aware of God whom you ask about, and the relatives. God is Watcher over you.
42 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money with your money; for truly this is a great sin!
43 And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you maintain by your oaths. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.
44 And give the women their dues willingly, and if they remit any of it to you of their own will, then you may take it with good feelings.
45 And do not give the immature ones your money for which God has made you overseers, and spend on them from it and clothe them, and speak to them in goodness.
46 And test the orphans when they reach puberty, then, if you have determined from them comprehension, then give them their money, and do not deliberately consume it wastefully or quickly before they grow up. And whoever is rich, then let him not claim anything, and if he is poor then let him consume in kindness. If you give to them their money, then make a witness for them, and God is enough for Reckoning.I'm assuming that you are referring to the above verses? Within the context of marriage, a man is allowed to have sexual relations with his wife. However, the most traditional understanding is that a man is allowed to have up to four wives at a time within a certain context. So, this situation does not constitute to adultery if the man is legally married to all four women. Basically, it's not adultery if you are married. Adultery only takes place when one has had relations with someone outside of marriage.
However, with that being said, polygamy is addressed within very specific circumstances within the Quran. If you read the verses, then you will come to know that the option of polygamy pertains to providing and protecting the interests of orphans. I remember reading somewhere that the word used for orphans in this case, "yatama" is gender masculine. I, then verified this for myself. So, I don't think this means to marry the actual orphans, but rather the mothers of the orphans. If the female orphans were married off, then what would become of the male orphans? Anyway, this is my understanding of it.
Polygamy definitely isn't encouraged otherwise. There is a verse having to do with this
4129 And you will not be able to be fair regarding the women even if you make every effort; so do not sway too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. And if you reconcile and do right, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.Also, we should keep in mind that women are not compelled to accept a polygamous lifestyle. Divorce is an option if such a situation was to arise. Also, I think some countries recognize marriage contracts where there is a stipulation put in place prior to the marriage. The stipulation basically makes it clear that the wife will not accept a co-wife or that particular lifestyle in the future.
I know that sectarians will often present reasons having to do with lust, having fallen in love with another woman, the first wife being barren, or the first wife being ill, and etc. However, I don't see these reasons highlighted in the Quran. If anything, we're asked to be chaste and lower our gaze. I think polygamy (polygyny in this case) strictly has to do with providing a home and guardianship (mom and dad) for orphaned children.
I hope I provided a sufficient answer to your question. This is just my understanding. I could be wrong in some places, please feel free to provide me with some feedback.
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Peace Release.
Thank you for taking the trouble. If there is one thing that has troubled me with Islam, it has been this issue. Recently, I contented myself with Aidid Zafar's translation of the orphans verse. That the translation is to marry off the orphans. There is no issue in my mind of whether the orphans are male or female. There are so many verses in the Koran talking about the sanctity of marriage that I feel we are wrong when we think God permits polygamy. It is something that needs to be addressed.
A verse such as this one springs immediately to mind2, 189, reminds us that our wives are "the keepers of our secrets." this suggests an intimacy between a man and a woman.
I think God has given us this issue to challenge us. If you look at Saudi Arabia alone, some men use this verse to have affairs. They get married to the women, then divorce them very soon after.
This issue to me is still wide open.
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Peace dawngorgeous )
No worries sister. This was (and still is) an issue that troubled/troubles me. My husband thinks I am crazy, but only we women can understand what a serious issue this is. I really enjoyed reading Aidid's translation of the verse, but I did some research, and it didn't entirely click for me. I just wanted to be honest with myself about this. Sure, I hate the idea of polygamy, so am I allowed hate it? Am I allowed to strongly dislike something that God has allowed? Then, I asked myself a better question Am I compelled to live this lifestyle if the situation arose? The answer is no. I think this is what we need to address. A woman should never feel threatened or coerced into such a situation. I love the idea of marriage contracts and stipulations. It puts everything out there in broad day light.
Another thing we need to encourage people to examine is the context of the verse. Notice how God has highlighted polgyny within the context of charity. Really, it appears that polygyny is something that is made permissible to the man that has the time, energy, and money to raise someone else's kids. It's a charitable thing to do. My husband and I just have one kid. He finds it difficult to spend enough time with her. Besides the obvious difficulty of sharing one's husband, there is also the difficulty of sharing one's father.
I hated the sectarians total disregard for the wife's "feelings". It was as if we were all supposed to be emotionless robots with our number one goal being to obey and please our husbands. According to them, we are not allowed to have any say in the matter as it is the husband's so called "right". I suppose the wife has to forgive the "right" to be happy and secure in her marriage. Thanks for highlighting that verse. Yes, what's marriage without trust, intimacy, and friendship?
Saudi has taken it a step further ). I heard that they validated something called "Nikkah Misyar", meaning that the man is not responsible for his "wife" financially yet is able to "marry" and indulge in sexual relations. I liken this type of "marriage" to the Shia concept of "mutah".
On the bright side, many countries are tightening the conditions for polygyny and making it increasingly difficult for men to just marry again at their whims and fancies. Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, and other such countries have really taken a stand. Turkey's politics are very much secular and it's illegal there to practice polygamy. I know people will secretly engage in these activities for whatever reasons, but it makes a difference when the law is on your side. I think the best way in which to protect the rights and interests of woman, children, and minorities (and even men, yes) is to have a sound and thorough legal system that addresses each and every thing.
Again, I've probably bored you..haha..I tend to ramble and then just continue. Don't worry sister, just pray to God that you will meet a God fearing man who understands God's words with a sincere and inquisitive mind/heart, and who loves you of course. . At the same time, never leave this issue aside and continue to voice your opinion in regard to it.
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Thanks guys!! Really loved reading this!
I have it in my contract. No co-wife, here in america or anywhere else, even it is allowed. He can do it, but I will not be there to kiss his lips after he kisses hers. I value myself, I feel I am worthy of a committed, one on one relationship. I will not be a second, third or fourth string player.
I know physically and mentally could not handle it. I understand what the sectarians say but what if the husband is unable to produce children, wife has lust, wife has fallen in love with another man, or the husband is ill. The reasons just don't work for me. I could play the card, if I had two husbands working then maybe I could afford to stay home and take care of the kids....lol
I have to agree, this verse to me is about taking for those who can't take care of themselves, the orphans. Especially, during that time in society.
I have issues with a woman's feeling being discarded. If we are so emotional then what makes you think seeing our husband with another does not hurt. a co-wife and the "other woman" are the same to me. I could not share myself with a man who might share that same moment with another. Having a past with sexual abuse, this kind of thing is just too painful to entertain and has been a huge issue for me. It would make me feel unworthy, that I am just not good enough, almost like a failure. I also feel it takes the sacredness out of the role intimacy plays in relationships.
I know I have the right not to accept it. I have taught my daughter she does not need to accept it and have taught my eldest boy it is not right and how would he like it if it was done to him. Maybe I am wrong but Dawn nailed my feelings in one sentence....
There are so many verses in the Koran talking about the sanctity of marriage that I feel we are wrong when we think God permits polygamy.
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Peace Indelwyn
Props to you for teaching your children about this issue. It's especially important to empower our girls and warn our boys! I would absolutely feel the same way as you. I would lose all desire for my husband if he happened to engage in this. Though, he thinks I'm nuts for even entertaining the idea of him doing that to me. Still, we have to be careful.
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I do not think 4.3 has anything to do with poligamy. It is not telling men or any particular person to marry the orphans. It is addressed in general distributively, like in so many ayas of the Qur'an those who are in a position to marry, marry the orphans. That is society in general is encouraged to have the orphans married and to arrange as manymarriages as may seem advisable at the same time, one, two, three, four. It is not telling anybody to have more than one wife or to marry several at the same time. In traditional jurisprudence in fact poligamy is restricted to marry one at a time, never more than one at the same time. But that is what the aya is saying. I do not know how a dispensation or commendation of poligamy can be extract from that aya. In fact int he whole of Qur'an poligamy of either men or women is neither approved nor prohibited.
It is certain that the marriage that the Qur'an speaks about in general is the marriage of only one partner with the excpetion of the Prophet when instructions are given concerning his wives.
And I do not find that 4.129 is referring to polygamy. It is only becuse we have been fed all the time that it refers to polygamy. If we go through the ayas before and after that one without preconception, we will find that it is pseaking about divorce. What makes us thing, that suddenly, for no reason and without saying that it is so we choose to think that it is referring to plygamy, and that again in the next it is back referring to break up and divorce? Only our own idea that there is that aya that says that wll women should be treated equal.
4.128 If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
4129 And you will not be able to be fair regarding the women even if you make every effort; so do not sway too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. And if you reconcile and do right, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
4.130 But if they disagree (and must part), Allah will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty for Allah is He that careth for all and is Wise.
Salaam
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Peace Huruf,
There are so many verses in the Koran that contradict the idea of polygamy. This is the reason I posed the original question. God willing, I intend to gather up these verses and see if they do not, once and for all, put paid to the notion that God supports multiple partners - apart from Mohammed. Unfortunately, I will be relying on translations as my Arabic is relatively non-existent.
Dawn.
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Salam all
I do not think 4.3 has anything to do with poligamy. It is not telling men or any particular person to marry the orphans. It is addressed in general distributively, like in so many ayas of the Qur'an those who are in a position to marry, marry the orphans. That is society in general is encouraged to have the orphans married and to arrange as manymarriages as may seem advisable at the same time, one, two, three, four. It is not telling anybody to have more than one wife or to marry several at the same time. In traditional jurisprudence in fact poligamy is restricted to marry one at a time, never more than one at the same time. But that is what the aya is saying. I do not know how a dispensation or commendation of poligamy can be extract from that aya. In fact int he whole of Qur'an poligamy of either men or women is neither approved nor prohibited.
It is certain that the marriage that the Qur'an speaks about in general is the marriage of only one partner with the excpetion of the Prophet when instructions are given concerning his wives.
And I do not find that 4.129 is referring to polygamy. It is only becuse we have been fed all the time that it refers to polygamy. If we go through the ayas before and after that one without preconception, we will find that it is pseaking about divorce. What makes us thing, that suddenly, for no reason and without saying that it is so we choose to think that it is referring to plygamy, and that again in the next it is back referring to break up and divorce? Only our own idea that there is that aya that says that wll women should be treated equal.
4.128 If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
4129 And you will not be able to be fair regarding the women even if you make every effort; so do not sway too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. And if you reconcile and do right, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
4.130 But if they disagree (and must part), Allah will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty for Allah is He that careth for all and is Wise.
Salaam
Peace Huruf,
There are so many verses in the Koran that contradict the idea of polygamy. This is the reason I posed the original question. God willing, I intend to gather up these verses and see if they do not, once and for all, put paid to the notion that God supports multiple partners - apart from Mohammed. Unfortunately, I will be relying on translations as my Arabic is relatively non-existent.
Dawn.
43 And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among women such as are lawful to you3 - two, or three, or four but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then one - or those whom you rightfully possess.4 This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course.
Salam all
I am a woman and I love monogamy- Sure it's the most desirable form of a relationship, it is clear from the Quran.
But if this in the Aya not a permission IN CERTAIN VERY RARE CONDITIONS to circumvent this requirement for monogamy, then I do not understand, what but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then one make here??we should be fair to all, and if not, then marry only one ..is it clear from the Arabic grammar?I would ask the Arab grammarians , it's a time sequence or a simultaneity expressed?
Salam -
Peace All,
I started having a little browse tonight through the verses related to marriage. One thing that struck me was the meaning of the word, ORPHAN. In every dictionary I consulted it means, children without parents, not without ONE parent. The only time it meant ONE parent was if the orphan was an animal. This therefore leaves a question mark over 43. Unless, the Arabic word means something different?!
Unfortunately, I found a verse I didn't want to find, which seemed to be supporting polygamy. The exact verse evades me, but it is the one in chapter two, where we are being told who we may marry. The verse concludes with the instruction that a man may not marry two sisters at the same time.
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Salam dawngorgeous
Peace All,
I started having a little browse tonight through the verses related to marriage. One thing that struck me was the meaning of the word, ORPHAN. In every dictionary I consulted it means, children without parents, not without ONE parent. The only time it meant ONE parent was if the orphan was an animal. This therefore leaves a question mark over 43. Unless, the Arabic word means something different?!
Unfortunately, I found a verse I didn't want to find, which seemed to be supporting polygamy. The exact verse evades me, but it is the one in chapter two, where we are being told who we may marry. The verse concludes with the instruction that a man may not marry two sisters at the same time.
what i know that "yatim" orphan in arabic is only a child without mother or without both. A child with the father only is not an orphan
423
M. Asad Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin ; and the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and to have two sisters at one and the same time - but what is past is past25 for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.Shabbir Ahmed 423 The following women are prohibited for you in marriage Your mothers, daughters, sisters, father's sisters, mother's sisters, brother's daughters, sister's daughters, foster-mothers who have ever nursed you, foster-sisters, your wives' mothers, your step-daughters, unless you have divorced their mother without being intimate with her. Also forbidden are women who have ever been the wives of your sons. You are not allowed to keep two sisters in wedlock at one time except what has already happened in the past. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Edip-Layth 423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, your foster mothers who suckled you, your sisters from suckling, the mothers of your wives, and your step-daughters residing in your homes from your wives which you have already consummated the marriage with; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and the wives of your sons that are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
The Monotheist Group 423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your fathers sisters, and your mothers sisters, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your wives, and your step-daughters residing in your homes from your wives which you have already consummated the marriage with; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and the wives of your sons that are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
my Arabic is not good enough to take apart the grammatical sentence. Is it written in chronological order? It may also be possible to understand that the two sisters are not to be married in succession?
that would be, however, a completely new situation.
Salam -
Salam all
43 And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among women such as are lawful to you3 - two, or three, or four but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then one - or those whom you rightfully possess.4 This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course.Salam all
I am a woman and I love monogamy- Sure it's the most desirable form of a relationship, it is clear from the Quran.
But if this in the Aya not a permission IN CERTAIN VERY RARE CONDITIONS to circumvent this requirement for monogamy, then I do not understand, what but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then one make here??we should be fair to all, and if not, then marry only one ..is it clear from the Arabic grammar?I would ask the Arab grammarians , it's a time sequence or a simultaneity expressed?
SalamIt is not saying that the same person marries one two three or four, it says that several marriages can be arranged in two or three or whatever, the kind of collective marriages arrande en Gaza for the orphans. YThey may be one hundred marriages, but it is to marry the mothers of the orphans but no with the same man, each with a different man. It doest say one marries with two at a time, but that there are as many marriages, monogamous or poligamous is not the question, as you consider fit. It is nto talking about poligamy or monogamy.
In the whole of Qur'an it is not said that poligamy masculine or feminine is forbidden, but obviously the marriage that is considered standard is the monogamous one.
I think that prohibition or permission of poligamy of either sex is left to each society to arrange according to its needs. It cannot forbid it all together, because there are situations, like the war of the triple alliance against Paraguay where almost all males were killed. You couldn't condemn a whole population to disappearance for the sake of monogamy nor the whole feminine population to not know motherhood, because there were not even enough to marry one tenth of the women. So it is not forbidden, but it is not certainly suggested nor ordered.
Salaam
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It is not saying that the same person marries one two three or four, it says that several marriages can be arranged in two or three or whatever, the kind of collective marriages arrande en Gaza for the orphans. YThey may be one hundred marriages, but it is to marry the mothers of the orphans but no with the same man, each with a different man. It doest say one marries with two at a time, but that there are as many marriages, monogamous or poligamous is not the question, as you consider fit. It is nto talking about poligamy or monogamy.
first time i understand this aya in this way, but- you are right!! ;DIn the whole of Qur'an it is not said that poligamy masculine or feminine is forbidden, but obviously the marriage that is considered standard is the monogamous one.
I think that prohibition or permission of poligamy of either sex is left to each society to arrange according to its needs. It cannot forbid it all together, because there are situations, like the war of the triple alliance against Paraguay where almost all males were killed. You couldn't condemn a whole population to disappearance for the sake of monogamy nor the whole feminine population to not know motherhood, because there were not even enough to marry one tenth of the women. So it is not forbidden, but it is not certainly suggested nor ordered.
yes well said , Thank youSalaam
Salams -
Peace dawngorgeous,
I think I read somewhere that in Arabic, a child without a father would actually be considered an orphan, since the men (or fathers rather) are considered to be the maintainers of the family. I think the definition in the west pertains to a child without both parents, but in this culture, even a child without a father figure in the picture would be considered orphaned. Of course, I could have misread this.
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Peace
Look at verse 4127, here the word yatama alnisai is used. This refers to the orphaned girls.
Wayastaftoonaka fee alnnisai quli Allahu yufteekum feehinna wama yutla AAalaykum fee alkitabi fee yatama alnnisai allatee la tutoonahunna ma kutiba lahunna watarghaboona an tankihoohunna waalmustadAAafeena mina alwildani waan taqoomoo lilyatama bialqisti wama tafAAaloo min khayrin fainna Allaha kana bihi AAaleeman
However, in verse 43, it appears that only "al yatama" is used without referencing the orphaned girls specifically. This could be a group of boys and girls.
Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fainkihoo ma taba lakum mina alnnisai mathna wathulatha warubaAAa fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fawahidatan aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
So, again, my question is If you marry the girls among the orphans, then what happens to the boys? Both boys and girls could be orphans.
This is why I think that due to the fact that yatama is gender masculine, this is a huge indicator that we're not talking about orphaned girls exclusively. Also, God tell us that we are to the test the orphans for maturity before we give them their inheritance. So, a person cannot marry without having reached the age of maturity. So, I don't think God is referring to orphan girls, but rather referring to their mothers as a potential spouse. The biggest problem I see is that many translations do not differentiate between "girl orphans" and "orphans". I think this is done on purpose by the male chauvinist sectarians.
Yes, polygyny is allowed in my opinion. It isn't something we can run away from. It doesn't stop me from believing this is the Word of God. However, you have to try and understand the wisdom behind the verses, and see that polygyny isn't something that is aimed to cause an injustice but rather, it is a method in which to bring justice to the lives of orphans who have been left without fathers for whatever reasons. It's so difficult to grow up without a father in the picture. A family needs both a mother and a father.
Polygyny isn't a lifestyle that you are compelled to live with. You have the right to make it clear that you are not in favor of it and do not wish to partake in it. Unfortunately, the laws in many sectarian dominated countries do not offer this option to women. They compel the women to accept polygyny or take the route of divorce (though for women, divorce is often a lengthy process in these countries). The Quran does not support their injustices. We have to be the ones to recognize this and correct their flawed thinking.
If you want to live a monogamous lifestyle, then you can live that way. If you and your husband make a joint decision to help a destitute woman and her children out, then that's your decision. God leaves that up to you.
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Peace All,
I started having a little browse tonight through the verses related to marriage. One thing that struck me was the meaning of the word, ORPHAN. In every dictionary I consulted it means, children without parents, not without ONE parent. The only time it meant ONE parent was if the orphan was an animal. This therefore leaves a question mark over 43. Unless, the Arabic word means something different?!
Unfortunately, I found a verse I didn't want to find, which seemed to be supporting polygamy. The exact verse evades me, but it is the one in chapter two, where we are being told who we may marry. The verse concludes with the instruction that a man may not marry two sisters at the same time.
Why are you concerned about polygamy? Its still most often better than divorce. Adultery is sexual betrayal. You should not have sex with another man's wife or a women has sex with another man's husband. Thiscan apply in marriage or any other relationship between a man and women. Its an act of taking something that belongs to someone else.
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Peace BigMo,
I have to disagree with you there. I don't think polygamy is better than divorce. As a woman, I'd rather be divorced and still have some peace of mind, than take part in a polygamous marriage. Just as men do not want to share their wife, most women do not want to share their husband. Polygyny is most definitely betrayal if the wife does not wish to live that lifestyle. It's a betrayal of trust.
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Plus, polygymy does need to necessarily be compared to divorce. They are two separate things. However, polygamy can result in divorce if the woman does not wish to accept it or tolerate. I don't see anything wrong in that. No one should feel compelled to live a lifestyle that straight up leaves them betrayed and depressed. Yes, and those feelings are for real.
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Peace All,
So, given that so far it looks as though polygamy is halal (according to the Koran), the Koranic definition of adultery can mean being unfaithful to four wives with other women. Does this really make sense?
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In addition to my last question I would like to know where I can find the verse in the Koran that tells me I can leave my marriage if my husband decides to take another wife. Surely with this reaction I am questioning God's rules and His judgement. Surely God knows best.