question from a Atheist
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Salam all
a story that is here learned in school
There was once an atheist and asked a faithful Can your God (Allah) create a God who is exactly the same as himself?
What answers the believer? He says yes, then the atheist explains so, then you have now but two gods. He says no, then the atheist would say that God is not all-powerful, allmighty, and therefore not God.
I answered that God can create a "Duplicate", but it will not do.
Your thoughts on that?
Salam -
Salam all
a story that is here learned in school
There was once an atheist and asked a faithful Can your God (Allah) create a God who is exactly the same as himself?
What answers the believer? He says yes, then the atheist explains so, then you have now but two gods. He says no, then the atheist would say that God is not all-powerful, allmighty, and therefore not God.
I answered that God can create a "Duplicate", but it will not do.
Your thoughts on that?
SalamYou talked before about polytheism. But you did not define that. Your atheist friend is asking a polytheist like question. This is not a monotheist understanding of God.
Watch this and you will see the polytheist mind. God can not create another God because God is uncreated. A create deity is a god and not God. Polytheism understands the divine VERY differently. Most Muslims have no clue what polytheism is so they couldn't answer your atheist friends answer.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRHwn2XKU
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Shalom Aleikhem,
I answered that God can create a "Duplicate", but it will not do.
Your thoughts on that?
SalamI am of the opinion that God can not do everything. This is because "everything" by definition includes meaningless absurdities too. For example, a square circle. Therefore, any demand put forth must make logical/rational sense.
Peace
---------- Student of Allah -
Salam Student of Allah
Shalom Aleikhem,
I am of the opinion that God can not do everything. This is because "everything" by definition includes meaningless absurdities too. For example, a square circle. Therefore, any demand put forth must make logical/rational sense.
Peace
---------- Student of Allahhow do you define then all-powerful, allmighty?
Salam peace -
Salam all
a story that is here learned in school
There was once an atheist and asked a faithful Can your God (Allah) create a God who is exactly the same as himself?The maintainer of all universes is boundless and has no limit in all dimensions..
Thus the best symbol to represent Him (or It) is
Some explanation
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfinityGod created God which is exactly the same as Himself it will be
+and
- =
and so does -
- =
10000000 X =
- =
Thus it will be back to be Himself..
That also explains why there can only be 1
As
/ = 1
ThusGod can only be compared with Himself and He/It has no equal except Him/Itself..
Salam / Peace
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This is trying to fit a god into the constraints of human brains and a human environment.
You either let go of all conventional, human thoughts such as logics, ethics, dimensions, etc or you might as well get used to the idea that gods are intelligently designed - by humans. You can't have a super-natural being and apply naturalistic concepts and attributes to that being.
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Peace All.
How can you create what " was not created" ie- always existed-?
Nonsense "contradictory" questions can only be asked by the " created".
Peace.
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You can't have two omnipotents. That's the base thought I always have about this.
How is not being able to make a paradox truth equal to not being all-powerful? Not a sarcastic question, but an honest question. People usually point me towards Rene Descartes' view on omnipotence but...forgive me not being very bright, I just don't get it. -\
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Salam Student of Allahhow do you define then all-powerful, allmighty?
Salam peaceWhen I think of someone being all powerful, I assume that "reason" limits the power. The power to do "all things" does not and can not include things that are undo-able by definition. Take the example of the "square circle" I provided earlier. It doesn't matter if you are a God or something else, you can not make a square circle. The reason being that if its a square, it isn't a circle and if it is a circle it wont be a square. So, the demand itself has inherent contradiction and thus is not a legitimate one.
Therefore, when I interpret "all powerful", I take it to mean that one has the power over all things that exist and can possibly exist and one can do all things that are rational/logical. I know that if my interpretation is ok, this would mean that behind every miracle is a scientific principle, regardless of how advanced/retarded it may be.
Peace
-------- Student of Allah -
Salam Azz
You can't have two omnipotents. That's the base thought I always have about this.
How is not being able to make a paradox truth equal to not being all-powerful? Not a sarcastic question, but an honest question. People usually point me towards Rene Descartes' view on omnipotence but...forgive me not being very bright, I just don't get it. -\
How is not being able to make a paradox truth equal to not being all-powerful? Not a sarcastic question, but an honest question. People usually point me towards Rene Descartes' view on omnipotence but...forgive me not being very bright, I just don't get it. -\
why forgive you? and for what? and i'm not the one who can forgive Just i don't get it too, for this i ask! )
SalamSalam Student of Allah
When I think of someone being all powerful, I assume that "reason" limits the power
i'm agree with you for everything in this universe, but not for Allah.
It doesn't matter if you are a God or something else, you can not make a square circle. The reason being that if its a square, it isn't a circle and if it is a circle it wont be a square. So, the demand itself has inherent contradiction and thus is not a legitimate one.
no, it matter God is not like something else. I can't make a square circle or anybody else from this planet. But because we don't have a definition from anything what includes the two- or we never has experience to see another aspect, only within our capacities from our brain. So we can't just imagine things like a square-circle ore anything behind our logic.
but this not mean, it's not possible to create something like that - God can create unlogic things if He want. But it will be nonsense so He dont do it.Therefore, when I interpret "all powerful", I take it to mean that one has the power over all things that exist and can possibly exist and one can do all things that are rational/logical. I know that if my interpretation is ok, this would mean that behind every miracle is a scientific principle, regardless of how advanced/retarded it may be.
From your statement i see that you don't believe miracles. if you can't find a scientific principle you will reject a miracle- or we must explain what we understand under science_ science as the knowledge what humans can learn or the ultimative knowledge from Allah, what overpowers our capacities.If your definition is the second one, then i'm completly agree with you.
Thanks and salam peaceSalam StopS
This is trying to fit a god into the constraints of human brains and a human environment.
You either let go of all conventional, human thoughts such as logics, ethics, dimensions, etc or you might as well get used to the idea that gods are intelligently designed - by humans. You can't have a super-natural being and apply naturalistic concepts and attributes to that being.
yes, that what i think also! )
Salam Jafar
The maintainer of all universes is boundless and has no limit in all dimensions..
Thus the best symbol to represent Him (or It) is
But then you compare God with a human definition,symbol. Do you think this is correct?
Thanks all and Salams )
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My question is, why would an atheist be concerned with God
if the atheist does not believe that God exists in the first place?#1 I don't know whether or not a god exists, epistemologically. So I check.
#2 Theists exist around me so I want to understand why they believe what they believe. -
Why would an all-powerful being create rivals for himself?
would a king give his kingship to someone else?He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves Do you ever elevate your servants or subordinates to the level where they rival you, and to the point that you pay them as much allegiance as is being paid to you? We thus explain the revelations for people who understand.
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The question is not dissimilar from the omnipotence paradox. I believe the question relies on a variety of illogical prerequisites and is therefore somewhat invalid.
This paradox has been debated and discussed for centuries and has been addressed by men far more intelligent than myself.Also I would suggest he is not atheist he sounds more likely to be antitheist.