Trying to understand "zulafan min al layl"
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Peace GODsubmitter.
Once again spot on. Well done.
Unfortunately we commit the same mistake the last generations have done.
Some will not believe in a human messenger until it is too late.
Or they say" we believe in some and reject others". Let them, they will go in circles trying to work out how many salat, when , where.....God knows our innermost thoughts, those who say " we hear and we obey" THEY WILL RECOGNISE THE TRUTH FROM THEIR LORD and will be guided.
Peace.
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Peace GODsubmitter.
Once again spot on. Well done.
Unfortunately we commit the same mistake the last generations have done.
Some will not believe in a human messenger until it is too late.
Or they say" we believe in some and reject others". Let them, they will go in circles trying to work out how many salat, when , where.....God knows our innermost thoughts, those who say " we hear and we obey" THEY WILL RECOGNISE THE TRUTH FROM THEIR LORD and will be guided.
Peace.
Thank you @goodlogic,
I agree with you completely, and thank you for recognition.
Let us just pray that God guides us and protect us from "distractions".
All the best
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Salaam,
Let me try sharing my understanding by my theCreator's permission.
• Salaat has been written on alMu'mineena on time. 4103
• These Salaat times are mentioned as Salaat alFajr and Salaat alEshaan . 2458
• Duration of Salaat alFajr was given as 'establish Salaat on two parts/edges of Day'. 11114, 1778
• Duration of Salaat alEshaan was given as 'from sunset to nearness of dark night/after dusk'. 1778, 11114
• Time to start Salaat, time of Fajr. 2187
• Time to start Salaat, time of Eshaan. 1778, 11114, 3830-31
To me, 11114 is defining the duration of Salaat alFajr as 1778 defines the duration of Salaat alEshaan.
11114
11114 And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.Please note , singular Salaat is mentioned, exactly same as in 1778.
Established Salaat at the two ends of the day = Salaat alFajr
AND
Established Salaat at the approach of the night = Salaat alEshaanFor the word or zulafan, please check 393.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
salaam,
I recommend the following thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0
"zulafan* min al layl" literally means "proximal/adjacent/near parts of/from the night"
*plural (i.e. more than 2)One should ask
- "proximal/adjacent/near" to what?
- how many parts does the night have, or, how would one determine parts?
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Salaam Wakas,
Thanks for the link. I have read it several times. I think people are missing my question completely.
It seems as though you and others are taking the two phrases and switching them around. Let me try to explain.
Below is the closest literal translation I can think of.
Two edges/ends of the day, and proximal/near/adjacent parts of/from the night.
When you ask "proximal/adjacent/near" to what? I know that you are suggesting "near the day", BUT what happened to "parts"? In 'Arabic is are these phrases "backwards"? I am not an expert on 'Arabic grammar, but it seems like you and many others are suggesting that what the verse is actually saying is "parts of the night that are near to the edges of the day". Is this correct or am I not understanding you? If "zulafan" is translated as "near parts" then isn't this proximity relating to the night, not the day?
I found in Lane's Lexicon that "zulafan" can also mean "portions". Perhaps this might be a more fitting translation because "near parts of the night" (to me at least) means times that are NEAR but not actually DURING the night.
Any thoughts on this?
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If "zulafan" is translated as "near parts" then isn't this proximity relating to the night, not the day?
Peace jtc,
Please allow me to clarify my part.
Yes, zulafan is relating to the night in 11114 because of mina before al-layli.
I found in Lane's Lexicon that "zulafan" can also mean "portions". Perhaps this might be a more fitting translation because "near parts of the night" (to me at least) means times that are NEAR but not actually DURING the night.
If you take zulafan as portions, how will you translate zulfaa in 393?
Red It is not referring to the parts or portions of night, hence cannot be during the night, but "nearness to night".
If you understand what I am saying here, you can go and take a look at my previous reply and now you may understand what I am saying, inshaAllah. Take a look at part where I relate this zulafan mina al-layli with salaat aleshaan. If you know the time of salaat aleshaan, you will understand what zulafan is referring to, inshaAllah.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
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peace jtc, all,
...it seems like you and many others are suggesting that what the verse is actually saying is "parts of the night that are near to the edges of the day". Is this correct or am I not understanding you?
Correct.
Please ask yourself the two questions I posted, and if you happen to have multiple options that's fine, simply note them down then eliminate the options using logic, cross-reference etc.
Let me clarify the first question
near/proximal/adjacent parts to WHAT?
Using a word such as "near" requires a reference point. This is basic logic, thus what is the reference point? To me, there are only three possible options one can consider
- two edges of the day
- one edge of the day (which one? some commonly state the latter edge)
- the night
Re 1) The verse clearly talks about two edges of the day, so that would seem like the most obvious reference point.
Re 2) if one chooses one edge, and some commonly choose the latter edge, it should be noted that the verse does not use one edge as a reference point, choosing the latter is partly arbitrary, and is unevidenced.
Re 3) choosing "near/proximal/adjacent parts of/from the night" firstly doesn't even make sense, hence some people say "early hours/parts", now whilst this meaning may exist in Classical Arabic dictionaries, Quran does not use ZLF to mean early. Secondly, "min" is a partitive, thus not all of the night, only part of it. Knowing this, I find it impossible to determine a time-range for such a salat. And so do others it seems, hence there is variance on how one interprets the other verses, e.g. 7320 (note this verse does not talk about early night), 1778-79 - resulting in overlapping times and/or very long continuous salat periods and/or variance over what quran-al-fajr and 1779 refer to, i.e. are they part of salat or separate, when are they done etc etc. Why are some time-ranges defined and not others etc.
If you, or others, can resolve the issues of choosing (3) then feel free to try, and let us know what you come up with. AFAIK, there is one resolution, and that is to say salat-al-fajr is the same as quran-al-fajr, and that the regular/timed salat is two daily and the one during the night is additional/extra , but this still results in two-daily being the command. So, whatever way you slice it, AFAICS, it would be two salat-daily for the mumineen.
You can read more here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7532.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8797.0
which are from the original link I referenced above. -
Peace Wakas,
Thanks for your response; I appreciate you taking the time to explain things. I actually came to understand this last night at work before I cam home and read your reply.
The statement that makes the most sense to me is "and adjacent parts of the night" as this actually makes sense grammatically in English and points out that the "parts of the night" are "adjacent" to the "edges of the day".
Sometimes when translating the Qur'an literally, it won't be grammatically correct in English, but using a bit of common sense can make things clear.
I can see so clearly now, thank God, that 11114 is only referring to "salat al fajr" and "salat al 'isha".
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Peace Wakas,
Thanks for your response; I appreciate you taking the time to explain things. I actually came to understand this last night at work before I cam home and read your reply.
The statement that makes the most sense to me is "and adjacent parts of the night" as this actually makes sense grammatically in English and points out that the "parts of the night" are "adjacent" to the "edges of the day".
Sometimes when translating the Qur'an literally, it won't be grammatically correct in English, but using a bit of common sense can make things clear.
I can see so clearly now, thank God, that 11114 is only referring to "salat al fajr" and "salat al 'isha".
Peace jtc,
Al Hamdulilah that you came to this conclusion. I have trouble using Lane's Lexicon due to English being my first language, so I appreciate that you were able to put words on it finally. And from what I have read of the thread, it makes complete sense.
-Amina
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Peace jtc, all,
Currently, my accepted meaning of "zulaf" is that which is listed as an entry in most classical lexicons, namely, "the hours when night and day meet".
There are a number of issues with this understanding, indeed, there are a number of issues with most understandings, being owed inevitably, in my view, to the plurality of the word, as opposed to its duality.
I can't say much more than this.
My studies are on-going.
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Well according to my understanding - it isn't a physical nearness it is a nearness in degree and in all the places refers to people getting nearer to Allah or Janna and not to any morning or evening. confused
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000411.pdf
2690
"To the righteous, the Garden will be brought near"34.37
It is not your wealth nor your sons, that will bring you nearer to Us in degree but only .....e.t.c
peace
