Why did God reveal the Quran through a messenger?

Bender

Writing this without anything else is a bit thin, don't you think?

Salaam,

I thought I made myself clear with the later comments.

I am questioning the validity of circular argumentation. If you are only "pretty sure" or you "hope" why comment? Are you providing an answer to my question? If yes, sorry, I don't see it.

RED You are questioning something which is not there.
BLUE Probably you forgot what kind of forum this is and who it's members are and thus what kind of answers people search for in here.
GREEN No not an answer, just pointing out that your question doesn't make sense.

Not really. My only assumption is that a book called Koran exists and that it is claimed that it was transmitted bit by bit from a god to an angel to a human to several humans to scribes into a book. That's all.

RED Really? I would like to advise you to look again at your questions. In case you didn't notice, some of your questions are of the form
"Which planet is bigger, the moon or the sun?"
or
"Why did Einstein got all the credits for the evolution theory while Newton was the first one?"

Just to make it more clear, just proof for me from the source the blue part.

If your English is not so good that is none of your fault. But I would suggest if you don't understand something that you ask and not assert.

My english is indeed bad, I didn't understand the red part, can you please rephrase it.

Salaam,
Bender

unknownuser

My english is indeed bad, I didn't understand the red part, can you please rephrase it.

Bender don't feel so bad, you're English is epic, its StopS's sentence that isn't structured correctly, even I didn't get it )

Wakas

StopS,

Have you actually read The Quran?
Some of what you asked is actually in it.

I hope this does not apply to you http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

DaresBears

Salamun Alaykum,

I was just wondering, the Quran at several places mentions how it is clear, and fully explained, and easy etc. then why did God use a messenger to give us the Quran, I mean, I don't know if this is a bad example, no offense, but, He could have just send down the book as a whole without any median right?

Well, if it was sent down like that, wouldn't everyone believe instantly? It would be ultimate proof, and if God were to give ultimate proof, every human would believe, which defeats the point.

unknownuser

Well, if it was sent down like that, wouldn't everyone believe instantly? It would be ultimate proof, and if God were to give ultimate proof, every human would believe, which defeats the point.

I guess that pretty much sums it up, thanks )

StopS

Salaam,

I thought I made myself clear with the later comments.

RED You are questioning something which is not there.
BLUE Probably you forgot what kind of forum this is and who it's members are and thus what kind of answers people search for in here.
GREEN No not an answer, just pointing out that your question doesn't make sense.

If someone says the Koran is clear because the Koran says it is clear it's circular.
It's a Free-Minds forum where people should give honest and coherent opinions to questions.
Again if you would tell me what it is that does not make sense I could rectify it.

RED Really? I would like to advise you to look again at your questions. In case you didn't notice, some of your questions are of the form
"Which planet is bigger, the moon or the sun?"
or
"Why did Einstein got all the credits for the evolution theory while Newton was the first one?"

Just to make it more clear, just proof for me from the source the blue part.

My english is indeed bad, I didn't understand the red part, can you please rephrase it.

Salaam,
Bender

I am quite aware of my questions. Just because you are unable to answer them you now question the veracity of my questions? Come on!

You want me to prove what? Do you want me to find how Muhammad received the Koran? Why don't you tell us what your definition of the transmission of the Koran is. Maybe I can learn something.

Can you answer just one easy question?
Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

StopS

Bender don't feel so bad, you're English is epic, its StopS's sentence that isn't structured correctly, even I didn't get it

Which sentence? Come on people! Is it that difficult to ask a straightforward question?

What sentence is unclear?

StopS

StopS,

Have you actually read The Quran?
Some of what you asked is actually in it.

I hope this does not apply to you http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Look, I've asked you before please leave me alone! You and I don't get along, so leave it. I am trying to understand what people think and you feel threatened and never cease to insult me at every opportunity. You are not helping.

If you do read what I am asking, why don't you be a good person and answer my questions? If I have overlooked something, correct me. I am human and can make mistakes.

Wakas

I asked a simple question have you actually read The Quran (in its entirety)?

The reason I ask is you seem to ask stuff that's either in it already or confuse it with Traditional Hadith.

Someone

Can you answer just one easy question?
Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

Hey StopS, if I answer your question, would you then STOP being > (just kiding ;D)

hmm

The god the creator is indeed unfolding (sending down) everyday the book to each one as we wake up on this planet (and beyond maybe... ). This book is this same creation that each one can see and sense using the means available. Each one of us is looking to this outside world through our own narrow windows...

This book is clear, regular, without faults, and flaws harmoniously according to well-tuned rules. Each one of us understands this book in his native or even "internal" language, each one can extract the rules from this book and use them for his benefit and others, or for his and other's destruction.

Certainly, living in communities provides each one with some background knowledge collected through time from some researching and inspired people, but it also brings a whole lot of absurdities and nonsense created by humans out of ignorance or to abuse others.

This book/creation (including the people, the written books, animals, insects, stars...)is the answer to your question, where one should be looking for the truth. It is all from the god the creator.

Now, coming to the book we call "alquran", it is simply a guidance or a "user's manual" to this creation, to show the readers the most efficient way to interact with this outside world and other people... Now you are free to follow its advises/vision or you may want to look elsewhere. The most important thing is to try and play in harmony with the laws of the creator, or else one will suffer ultimately.

unknownuser

Which sentence? Come on people! Is it that difficult to ask a straightforward question?

What sentence is unclear?

This one I would suggest if you don't understand something that you ask and not assert

I ain't saying that its completely not understandable, its just that, if you said it like this, it would've been much clearer

I would suggest that you ask instead of asserting if you don't understand something
I would suggest that you don't assert, but ask if you don't understand something
If you don't understand something, I suggest that you ask and not assert
If you don't understand something, I suggest that you ask instead of asserting

You see what I mean? Though no need to focus on this, this is just a minor issue, you may continue with your discussion

StopS

The god the creator is indeed unfolding (sending down) everyday the book to each one as we wake up on this planet (and beyond maybe... ). This book is this same creation that each one can see and sense using the means available. Each one of us is looking to this outside world through our own narrow windows...

Strange. Mine was printed in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It is half in ancient Arabic and half in English. If I show the book to my Greek neighbour, the text stays the same and does not change into Greek. So we are all dependant on the English translation. Learning ancient Arabic does not make it better either as even experts in that language disagree over what is in the text.

So my question remains why do you think does god not send a book everyone can understand?

This book is clear, regular, without faults, and flaws harmoniously according to well-tuned rules. Each one of us understands this book in his native or even "internal" language, each one can extract the rules from this book and use them for his benefit and others, or for his and other's destruction.

If that were true, we would have no disagreements. Everyone with an internet connection can easily ascertain that what you write is not the case at all.
I had colleagues in Kuala Lumpur who were Muslims and admitted they did not know Arabic and had no knowledge of the Koran and simply accepted what the Imam told them and learnt to repeat 5 or 6 sentences. THAT is the reality. I find most of the Koran impossible to understand. Which is why I am here to see what Muslims who accept the text make of this.

Certainly, living in communities provides each one with some background knowledge collected through time from some researching and inspired people, but it also brings a whole lot of absurdities and nonsense created by humans out of ignorance or to abuse others.

No clue what this means.

This book/creation (including the people, the written books, animals, insects, stars...)is the answer to your question, where one should be looking for the truth. It is all from the god the creator.

Truth. What truth? The truth is what is a proven and demonstrable fact. What you are doing is assuming that something you would like to be true can be taken as a basis for something which really exists. Is that a realistic approach? If I ask you how do you know everything comes from a single source a creator? you will simply tell me that it is a fact which is shown in a book. A book by the same creator. How do you know this? Because it says so in the book. If I am wrong, I would appreciate if you correct me.

So my question remains why do you think does god not send a book everyone can understand?

Now, coming to the book we call "alquran", it is simply a guidance or a "user's manual" to this creation, to show the readers the most efficient way to interact with this outside world and other people... Now you are free to follow its advises/vision or you may want to look elsewhere. The most important thing is to try and play in harmony with the laws of the creator, or else one will suffer ultimately.

How is 411 HM a "user's manual"? How is telling me humans are created and created from 13 different materials a "user's manual"? How is telling me mountains stabilise the surrounding surface, which is wrong, a "user's manual"? I can carry on and on, but my point I think is clear why are humans told something which is irrelevant for salvation and their purpose here on Earth? Why do humans start arguing about these sentences if the book is so "clear, regular, without faults, and flaws harmoniously according to well-tuned rules"?

StopS

This one I would suggest if you don't understand something that you ask and not assert

I ain't saying that its completely not understandable, its just that, if you said it like this, it would've been much clearer

I would suggest that you ask instead of asserting if you don't understand something
I would suggest that you don't assert, but ask if you don't understand something
If you don't understand something, I suggest that you ask and not assert
If you don't understand something, I suggest that you ask instead of asserting

You see what I mean? Though no need to focus on this, this is just a minor issue, you may continue with your discussion

Thanks for the clarification. I will try and follow your suggestion.

unknownuser

Thanks for the clarification. I will try and follow your suggestion.

You're welcome )

Someone

Strange. Mine was printed in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It is half in ancient Arabic and half in English. If I show the book to my Greek neighbour, the text stays the same and does not change into Greek. So we are all dependant on the English translation. Learning ancient Arabic does not make it better either as even experts in that language disagree over what is in the text.

So my question remains why do you think does god not send a book everyone can understand?

If that were true, we would have no disagreements. Everyone with an internet connection can easily ascertain that what you write is not the case at all.
I had colleagues in Kuala Lumpur who were Muslims and admitted they did not know Arabic and had no knowledge of the Koran and simply accepted what the Imam told them and learnt to repeat 5 or 6 sentences. THAT is the reality. I find most of the Koran impossible to understand. Which is why I am here to see what Muslims who accept the text make of this.

No clue what this means.

Truth. What truth? The truth is what is a proven and demonstrable fact. What you are doing is assuming that something you would like to be true can be taken as a basis for something which really exists. Is that a realistic approach? If I ask you how do you know everything comes from a single source a creator? you will simply tell me that it is a fact which is shown in a book. A book by the same creator. How do you know this? Because it says so in the book. If I am wrong, I would appreciate if you correct me.

So my question remains why do you think does god not send a book everyone can understand?

How is 411 HM a "user's manual"? How is telling me humans are created and created from 13 different materials a "user's manual"? How is telling me mountains stabilise the surrounding surface, which is wrong, a "user's manual"? I can carry on and on, but my point I think is clear why are humans told something which is irrelevant for salvation and their purpose here on Earth? Why do humans start arguing about these sentences if the book is so "clear, regular, without faults, and flaws harmoniously according to well-tuned rules"?

Please StopS, at least act as you require others to do I would suggest if you don't understand something that you ask and not assert

First, I never said in my post that I am a Muslim, you assumed so many things about me in your post and argued with yourself about it tempt ...

Furthermore, it seems that you missed the gist of what I was saying; Please reread my previous post taking in consideration that the book that I am referring to in the beginning of my post is the creation=this universe=the book, maybe you would see the answer to your question.

As for the veracity of the existence of a creator for this universe, it is a FACT not an assumption. IF you admit that you exist, THEN you have to also admit that you were created (in a way or other), it implies then the existence of at least a creator...

Let's do it the other way; Let's suppose that "no creator exits". This implies automatically that no creation can exist because there is no creator to create it. This implies that YOU (and everything else) don't exist. hmm

Can I make an assumption about you and say that it is a Fact that YOU exist?

And in that case, it means that my hypothesis that "no creator exists" is wrong.

Thus it is undeniably proven that "At least, one creator exists". Denying this is denying your own existence.

StopS

Please StopS, at least act as you require others to do I would suggest if you don't understand something that you ask and not assert

You should read the first part of the sentence if you don't understand something
You used words such as "The god the creator is indeed unfolding (sending down)", "This book is clear, regular, without faults, and flaws harmoniously", "This book/creation is the answer to your question, where one should be looking for the truth. It is all from the god the creator", "coming to the book we call "alquran"
all marketing-speak not used by non-Muslims.
But it is possible that you fooled me and just pretended to use this vocabulary, so if I am wrong, please do correct me.

Furthermore, it seems that you missed the gist of what I was saying; Please reread my previous post taking in consideration that the book that I am referring to in the beginning of my post is the creation=this universe=the book, maybe you would see the answer to your question.

Could you please stop playing games and get to the point? What is the gist of what you were saying? At the "beginning of the post" you liken me to a devil, so what gives?

As for the veracity of the existence of a creator for this universe, it is a FACT not an assumption. IF you admit that you exist, THEN you have to also admit that you were created (in a way or other), it implies then the existence of at least a creator...

Let's do it the other way; Let's suppose that "no creator exits". This implies automatically that no creation can exist because there is no creator to create it. This implies that YOU (and everything else) don't exist. hmm
Can I make an assumption about you and say that it is a Fact that YOU exist? And in that case, it means that my hypothesis that "no creator exists" is wrong. Thus it is undeniably proven that "At least, one creator exists". Denying this is denying your own existence.

Oh dear, no, none of that makes sense, is correct or in the least compelling. It is mere special pleading. It is illogical, wrong and - at best - wishful thinking.

Someone

Oh dear, no, none of that makes sense, is correct or in the least compelling. It is mere special pleading. It is illogical, wrong and - at best - wishful thinking.

Would you please then enlighten me by explaining your position about the existence or not of a creator? Please use your own terms in a short demonstration, I am not interested in long articles.

StopS

Would you please then enlighten me by explaining your position about the existence or not of a creator? Please use your own terms in a short demonstration, I am not interested in long articles.

I was under the impression that this is the purpose of the introductory area.

Since you seem unable to answer my questions, I will answer yours.
My position none.
Demonstrate this oh boy! what a crazy world. Please demonstrate how I should demonstrate a creator or a non-creator. Good luck. Look, why don't you ask sensible questions?
Yes, I would imagine that you would not be interested in "long articles" whatever that may mean.

Now tell me does any of this lead anyone towards an understanding of why the Koran had to be revealed through a messenger?

Bender

If someone says the Koran is clear because the Koran says it is clear it's circular.

Salaam,

Not if the Quran is The Truth. And that is what we (most of us in this forum) believe in here. Not for you, I know... but for us it is the truth.
So there is nothing circular. These kind "intelligent" observations will maybe work for you somewhere else but not here where people in here want answers from The Quran.

It's a Free-Minds forum where people should give honest and coherent opinions to questions.

sure, I agree. But if your questions don't make sense what kind of answers are you expecting?
Can you answer for me this question please
Why is grass red?

Again if you would tell me what it is that does not make sense I could rectify it.

ok

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?

Can you first proof for me that it was transmitted by a single human.
If you can't then this question does not make sense.

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

If He had sent 7 billjon books then you would have complaint why not 1 Book for everyone.
Or maybe you would have complaint why it's forbidden for you in your book to drink alcohol while in my book it's a good deed to get drunk.

We have to do it with 1 Book in arabic, we have only to follow in the best way what is clear to to us from The Book. You will not be set accountable for things you have no knowledge of.

This is what The Quran says
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth,
authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding
it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow
their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you
We have made laws, and a structure; and if God had willed, He would
have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given
you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He
will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.

Why not set the golden tablets, the originals,into the desert next to Mecca?
I am not sure from where you got the red part. And I also don't understand the green part, why Mecca???

Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
This kind of question is of the form
Why did God not made for us 2 eyes so that we can see.
FYI, it's content is transmitted telepathically, only you don't know this.

Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Not sure what you mean. You want the text/message of The Quran coded in your brains or what?

Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
Source please for your claim.

Why include parts which humans don't understand?
You may understand things that I don't understand and I may understand things you don't understand.
And what you don't understand today, maybe you will understand it tomorrow.
We are only accountable for the things we understand, very easy.

Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?
I read in a other post of you, that you have read The Quran several times, how come then that you ask such questions?
Already in the beginning of chapter 2 you can read what The Quran says about this.
Sorry to say, but from your questions it seems you have very little knowledge of The Quran and the little knowledge you have is based on sources outside The Quran.

I am quite aware of my questions. Just because you are unable to answer them you now question the veracity of my questions? Come on!

Did you really think you had some genius questions hmm

Maybe an advise for the next time is to take a second look at your questions before you ask.
Please don't include in your questions things which are not from The Quran and then present it as if it is in The Quran.
Like I told you before, in a sunni forum or any other not "Quran Alone forum" you would have great succes with these kind of questions but in here nope

You want me to prove what?

You said "FROM GOD TO ANGEL"
I asked if you can proof this.
This means Can you proof for me from The Quran that The Quran states that The Quran was revealed FROM GOD TO AN ANGEL.
Looks to me like a very simple question. If you can't answer it, then try next time not to write things as a fact in your questions.

Do you want me to find how Muhammad received the Koran?

Did I mention Mohammed hmm

Why don't you tell us what your definition of the transmission of the Koran is. Maybe I can learn something.

Finally a question that makes sense.

Can you answer just one easy question?

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

I asnwered this above.
Btw, sorry to say but even if your questions were correct, then they still look like questions from a crybaby.

Salaam,
Bender

Someone

I was under the impression that this is the purpose of the introductory area.

Since you seem unable to answer my questions, I will answer yours.
My position none.
Demonstrate this oh boy! what a crazy world. Please demonstrate how I should demonstrate a creator or a non-creator. Good luck. Look, why don't you ask sensible questions?
Yes, I would imagine that you would not be interested in "long articles" whatever that may mean.

Now tell me does any of this lead anyone towards an understanding of why the Koran had to be revealed through a messenger?

Peace StopS,

It seems that we have a communication problem between the 2 of us, and that we are unable to convey our "simple" ideas to the other side. I can accept our differences and live with it, as I am of the peacemakers. Can you do the same and avoid acting as a troublemaker?

Can you be more constructive in your interventions? Arguing for the sake of arguing is a waste of time, I would advise that you spend your time in more useful activities.

Peace