Why did God reveal the Quran through a messenger?

StopS

You are a Muslim? Oh! I am sorry, please forgive me.

Ooops, hahaha, what a mess. My reaction of "not at all" was directed at your apology. Let me be precise I am non-Muslim.

To know why I said that, please check this and this carefully. Hope this may help you, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

Wow! I find that highly potent and it could potentially change the entire concept of the perception of Islam. But I must admit that I am starting to enjoy the unvarying, focused and total commitment to a Koran only approach.
I admit I have not thought this through, so I am as yet unable to properly slot this idea into history and the grand picture, but I'll get the hang of it.
Thank you for your very supportive and understanding help.

mmkhan

Ooops, hahaha, what a mess. My reaction of "not at all" was directed at your apology. Let me be precise I am non-Muslim.

Wow! I find that highly potent and it could potentially change the entire concept of the perception of Islam. But I must admit that I am starting to enjoy the unvarying, focused and total commitment to a Koran only approach.
I admit I have not thought this through, so I am as yet unable to properly slot this idea into history and the grand picture, but I'll get the hang of it.
Thank you for your very supportive and understanding help.

Red Now I am not gonna say anything on this, I will be -X

You are very welcome, and please do remember that alQuraan is the Book that stands alone without the need of any hadith or history. It explains itself in many many different ways. Please click here to see an example if you are interested. )

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

Bender

I am asking a question. If you know the answer, why not simply tell me, instead of making thus unnecessarily complicated by copy/pasting something here and only then do you clarify the situation?

Salaam,

D Well everyone has his way of bringing over the message. Maybe my way is bad and I have to correct it, thanks for pointing it out.

I read 24, which says And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee... or 5310 And he revealed to His Servant what he revealed.
Then I see 3144 Muhammad is but a messenger
and I add this together to maybe say Muhammad is the prophet of Allah and he is the one who received the Koran via Gabriel.

Ok thanks for your understanding based on AlQuran handshake
The only problem is that there is no mention of Mohammed in 24 and 5310. So understanding that it is Mohammed, is only a guess based on hadith and other sources outside The Quran and we are not allowed to take anything as source to understand The Quran besides The Quran. So if we don't use the hadiths and other sources as commanded in The Quran then it is not proven that it's talking about Mohammed. At least I could not proof it, if someone else can proof it, then I really like to see the Quranic evidence. Besides this, if we understand those verses as if they are for Mohammed then they will contradict many many things in The Quran. Or at least I see them as contradictions.

btw prophet of Allah does not exist only messenger of Allah.

You have "an understanding" but it's a secret?

No not a secret, but I am not sure about it. I can not proof it for myself with 100% certainty, so I prefer to wait to post my understanding till I'm 100% confident about it.

No, we are NOT talking about Moses. At least I am not. I would imagine 251 ff mentions Moses, as do ~130 others. If there is no original of the Koran, then why not say so?

Well if we search for what Quran means then it can be concluded with verses from The Quran that it means The Recite/Recital or something very close to it. Thus something people can HEAR. So Quran is per definition not written text, but spoken speach. But I agree that some point in time we had also the first text version, probably on the same time. But when that happen, or who the one it was or who got it first, or who wrote it first, I have no idea.

Your analogy is invalid. You are assuming Mars exists.

Mars can be seen with a telescope. Or at least we see something that we named Mars.

If you can manage to let go of all preconceptions you will understand my questions.
If there are no originals for the Koran then I have to retract my3rd question, not because it is nonsensical, but because I have asked it due to a misconception of what you, a Muslim, believe as opposed to what another person, a Muslim, told me.

Having said that what is your definition of a Muslim? It could be that I have another generalisation and misconception there as well.

Well I agree there must have been an orginal Quran (the first written and spoken one) but how/when/who/where, I have no clear evidence from The Quran.

Red as per my current understanding, muslim is someone who submits himself. From The Quran we learn that we can be muslim to different things, depends on the subject. We try to be muslims to The God of heavens and earth.

Salaam,
Bender

StopS

Ok thanks for your understanding based on AlQuran handshake
The only problem is that there is no mention of Mohammed in 24 and 5310. So understanding that it is Mohammed, is only a guess based on hadith and other sources outside The Quran and we are not allowed to take anything as source to understand The Quran besides The Quran. So if we don't use the hadiths and other sources as commanded in The Quran then it is not proven that it's talking about Mohammed. At least I could not proof it, if someone else can proof it, then I really like to see the Quranic evidence. Besides this, if we understand those verses as if they are for Mohammed then they will contradict many many things in The Quran. Or at least I see them as contradictions.

I have not used anything but the Koran to my knowledge. I have some information which I have learnt is erroneous, but I have not once quoted any hadith or saying.

I have asked you nicely not to just say this is wrong - and then leave it, but you are doing it again. I asked you what the process is and never received a reply.

So a person called Muhammad is mentioned in the Koran I think 4 times. Is he a messenger or what is he according to your understanding? Is it only the meaning of "anointed one"?

No not a secret, but I am not sure about it. I can not proof it for myself with 100% certainty, so I prefer to wait to post my understanding till I'm 100% confident about it.

ok

Well if we search for what Quran means then it can be concluded with verses from The Quran that it means The Recite/Recital or something very close to it. Thus something people can HEAR. So Quran is per definition not written text, but spoken speach. But I agree that some point in time we had also the first text version, probably on the same time. But when that happen, or who the one it was or who got it first, or who wrote it first, I have no idea.

Take a sentence and whisper it to the person on the left in the front row in a mosque and ask him to whisper this to his neighbour.
Now write the same sentence on a piece of paper and give it the person on the left of the last row and ask him to show it to his neighbour who has to copy it.
And so on.
What do you get when you receive the sentence from the people in the front and last row on the right? I don't need to specify it, because you know what will happen and why it is essential to have written down texts.

Mars can be seen with a telescope. Or at least we see something that we named Mars.

Your analogy was
"why is the water on Mars always 30 degrees"
and my point is that if you want to assign something to an object, this very object requires proof for its physical existence.
Now you say that Mars can be detected and thus you base a statement on that.
Can you do the same for god? No. So how can you base anything which has not been proven to exist yet?

That's why my original questions are valid - except - yes I accept now that 3 points are over the top

the 1st one is debatable as there is no mention of a single human receiving the Koran in the book.
I also accept that the adjective "golden" was conjecture on my part.
If we don't know when the sentences regarding alcohol were revealed we can't surmise this was when alcohol was still allowed. This causes even more problems without this explanation, but factually, it is unknown.

Well I agree there must have been an orginal Quran (the first written and spoken one) but how/when/who/where, I have no clear evidence from The Quran.

Red as per my current understanding, muslim is someone who submits himself. From The Quran we learn that we can be muslim to different things, depends on the subject. We try to be muslims to The God of heavens and earth.

Salaam,
Bender

OK, I am starting to understand how the consequences are still difficult for me to assess.

So the Koran somehow appeared and a person found it, read it and found it great and more and more people thought the same way and decided to expand their territories, conquering all lands between Spain and India. The coins mentioning someone called Muhammad and the accounts which mention someone called Muhammad more and more were only coincidental and based on a misconception. Is that about right?

Bender

I have not used anything but the Koran to my knowledge. I have some information which I have learnt is erroneous, but I have not once quoted any hadith or saying.

Salaam,

Yes I know, but your understanding was based on them. Probably you didn't know. Anyhow how you understood it, is not from The Quran, at least to my current knowledge it's not.

I have asked you nicely not to just say this is wrong - and then leave it, but you are doing it again. I asked you what the process is and never received a reply.

I answered yes

So a person called Muhammad is mentioned in the Koran I think 4 times. Is he a messenger or what is he according to your understanding? Is it only the meaning of "anointed one"?

He is for sure a messenger, no doubt. But is Muhammed a name? That's the big question. From the way it is written and how it is used in The Quran, it's almost for sure not a name of a person but a probably a title for a person, I am not 100% sure though.

Take a sentence and whisper it to the person on the left in the front row in a mosque and ask him to whisper this to his neighbour.
Now write the same sentence on a piece of paper and give it the person on the left of the last row and ask him to show it to his neighbour who has to copy it.
And so on.
What do you get when you receive the sentence from the people in the front and last row on the right? I don't need to specify it, because you know what will happen and why it is essential to have written down texts.

I said probably they were on the same time, but not sure.

Well the counter proof that your analogy doesn't always apply is The Quran D

Your analogy was
"why is the water on Mars always 30 degrees"
and my point is that if you want to assign something to an object, this very object requires proof for its physical existence.
Now you say that Mars can be detected and thus you base a statement on that.
Can you do the same for god? No. So how can you base anything which has not been proven to exist yet?

We were not discussing the existence of a God. The premise in this forum is that God exists, unless the subject is talking about the existence of a God, which this topic is not.

That's why my original questions are valid - except - yes I accept now that 3 points are over the top

the 1st one is debatable as there is no mention of a single human receiving the Koran in the book.
I also accept that the adjective "golden" was conjecture on my part.
If we don't know when the sentences regarding alcohol were revealed we can't surmise this was when alcohol was still allowed. This causes even more problems without this explanation, but factually, it is unknown.

these were the verses you qouted on alcohol
2219 In both there is great sin, and some benefits for people.
443 Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken
590 Wine, gambling, altars and divining arrows are filth, made up by Satan. Therefore, refrain from it, so that you may be successful.

443 has absolutely nothing to do with alcohol. It doesn't even say drunk.

The word that is translated as wine doesn't mean wine but "things that cover" (physically or mentally), ofcourse wine is included in those things, as it covers the mind.
Also it looks like you think that there was an order of revelation. And probably you also think that 1 verse abrogates the other, this means that a verse is overruled by a other verse. This understanding is not supported by The Quran, evenmore it can be proven that The Quran is against this idea. It was not more than an invention of people, to mislead people.

So the Koran somehow appeared and a person found it, read it and found it great and more and more people thought the same way and decided to expand their territories, conquering all lands between Spain and India. The coins mentioning someone called Muhammad and the accounts which mention someone called Muhammad more and more were only coincidental and based on a misconception. Is that about right?

I am not sure what coins you are talking about.

Anyway I am not into history books and archeology, it has absolutely no value to me.

In the arabian world they can proof for you with their history books and their archeology that Mohammed lived in 600. Here in Holland they did a big research on it, but without the history books of the arabs only with their own history books and archeology and they could not find any indication of an exsistence of a person named Mohammed in the year 600.
So who should I trust?

Salaam,
Bender

StopS

Salaam,
Yes I know, but your understanding was based on them. Probably you didn't know. Anyhow how you understood it, is not from The Quran, at least to my current knowledge it's not.

OK, fine.
It's difficult explaining everything 5 times and still be misunderstood. It's probably my concise formulation.

drfazl

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?
Quran indeed is inscribed in the hearts of every individual as a manual and as a guidance for him to sail through this worldly life with easy and comfortable breeze. This breeze inspired into our sense as revelation which determines our course in righteousness is the 'Furqan'. The hard copy of it is the Quran, we have. We have to test and verify each verse of this Quran if it is truly from Allah in that if it makes sense or complies with the 'Furqan', or our 'Ruh' or our 'Soul'. A human imbibed with this capacity chosen from among the various sections of people in their own languages as messengers. And they are with you now. You will know them as your own household provided you are aware of and conduct yourself in the path of Furqan or in the righteous path your soul guides you.
Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?
Each one has his own soul or Ruh is proof enough there are 7 billion Furqans having the same sense of truth.
Why not set the golden tablets, the originals, into the desert next to Mecca?
The original golden tablet is your own Ruh or the Soul.
Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
Every one has the sense to assess and understand if any utterance makes sense.
Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Furqan is hard-wired into the minds of every one that they have the sense to differentiate between good and bad; and righteousness and evil.
Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
It is not the Furqan what you say but Hadiths, the men written non-sense. From the period of Adam, the Furqan is very sensible and the quranic verse will conform to it. If only an explanation conforms to Furqan, it is right. Your question makes a lot sense; but the answer you got is just the hearsay. Use your Furqan and say now There was never a change in the verses of the Almighty; He never errs; only the narrators of quran have gone astray; they have no right to clarify on Quran when the Furqan was not at all a guide in their entire lives.
Why include parts which humans don't understand?
There is no part in Quran which does not make sense.
Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?
There was not a human who did not have a soul to think and act from the time man is born in this world.

Salaam,
fazl

StopS

I almost missed this, as it was addressed to Bender.

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?
Quran indeed is inscribed in the hearts of every individual as a manual and as a guidance for him to sail through this worldly life with easy and comfortable breeze. This breeze inspired into our sense as revelation which determines our course in righteousness is the 'Furqan'. The hard copy of it is the Quran, we have. We have to test and verify each verse of this Quran if it is truly from Allah in that if it makes sense or complies with the 'Furqan', or our 'Ruh' or our 'Soul'. A human imbibed with this capacity chosen from among the various sections of people in their own languages as messengers. And they are with you now. You will know them as your own household provided you are aware of and conduct yourself in the path of Furqan or in the righteous path your soul guides you.

The heart consists of muscle tissue, pumping blood and has no memory or knowledge. Can you prove the existence of what you call "soul"? What does "in their own language" mean? The messenger's or the recipient's?

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?
Each one has his own soul or Ruh is proof enough there are 7 billion Furqans having the same sense of truth.

I would prefer my brain to be able to understand.

Why not set the golden tablets, the originals, into the desert next to Mecca?
The original golden tablet is your own Ruh or the Soul.

Same again? Why not provide physical references? And I know my question was wrong regarding the material.

Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
Every one has the sense to assess and understand if any utterance makes sense.

No, apparently not, as 4 out of 5 get the "wrong" message.

Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Furqan is hard-wired into the minds of every one that they have the sense to differentiate between good and bad; and righteousness and evil.

Why don't you just say I don't know?

Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
It is not the Furqan what you say but Hadiths, the men written non-sense. From the period of Adam, the Furqan is very sensible and the quranic verse will conform to it. If only an explanation conforms to Furqan, it is right. Your question makes a lot sense; but the answer you got is just the hearsay. Use your Furqan and say now There was never a change in the verses of the Almighty; He never errs; only the narrators of quran have gone astray; they have no right to clarify on Quran when the Furqan was not at all a guide in their entire lives.

2219, 1667, 443, 590 have different and vague rules regarding alcohol. Why not have a single and precise one, saying no alcohol!?

Why include parts which humans don't understand?
There is no part in Quran which does not make sense.

Oh come on, there's 100s. How does 411 HM aid in salvation and the reward of heaven?

Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?
There was not a human who did not have a soul to think and act from the time man is born in this world.

Are you saying the Koran existed 200,000 years ago? A human usually uses their brain to think. If I say I think with my mukali, you would question my integrity or sanity or both.

drfazl

I almost missed this, as it was addressed to Bender.

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?
Quran indeed is inscribed in the hearts of every individual as a manual and as a guidance for him to sail through this worldly life with easy and comfortable breeze. This breeze inspired into our sense as revelation which determines our course in righteousness is the 'Furqan'. The hard copy of it is the Quran, we have. We have to test and verify each verse of this Quran if it is truly from Allah in that if it makes sense or complies with the 'Furqan', or our 'Ruh' or our 'Soul'. A human imbibed with this capacity chosen from among the various sections of people in their own languages as messengers. And they are with you now. You will know them as your own household provided you are aware of and conduct yourself in the path of Furqan or in the righteous path your soul guides you.

The heart consists of muscle tissue, pumping blood and has no memory or knowledge. Can you prove the existence of what you call "soul"? What does "in their own language" mean? The messenger's or the recipient's?

When you remember a knowledge it is memory. Knowledge is what you sense through your 5 physical senses either individually or collectively. The more collective your knowledge is based on all your 5 physical senses, the higher is your perception and the better will be your memory. A man must thus have collective acute sensitivity to perceive. These are the people who are set for higher standards of understanding, i.e. to receive from the 6th sense - from the "Soul" or the "Ruh". These are the sensible people who Allah is pleased with. And He chooses from among them, His messengers and the prophets for His Messages, through His Soul or Ruh.

If you could understand this far, then answer to the rest of your Q.1 shall continue.
.

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?
Each one has his own soul or Ruh is proof enough there are 7 billion Furqans having the same sense of truth.

I would prefer my brain to be able to understand.

Brain can receive and understand only what is materially existing. It cannot understand the 6th sense - the soul or the ruh - unless you become perceptible by training yourself to experience above the 5 physical senses.

Why not set the golden tablets, the originals, into the desert next to Mecca?
The original golden tablet is your own Ruh or the Soul.

Same again? Why not provide physical references? And I know my question was wrong regarding the material.

Yes, same again.

Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
Every one has the sense to assess and understand if any utterance makes sense.

No, apparently not, as 4 out of 5 get the "wrong" message.

Care not about what and how others receive the message; set your eyes on the 6th.

Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Furqan is hard-wired into the minds of every one that they have the sense to differentiate between good and bad; and righteousness and evil.

Why don't you just say I don't know?

It is my humble duty to inform you

Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
It is not the Furqan what you say but Hadiths, the men written non-sense. From the period of Adam, the Furqan is very sensible and the quranic verse will conform to it. If only an explanation conforms to Furqan, it is right. Your question makes a lot sense; but the answer you got is just the hearsay. Use your Furqan and say now There was never a change in the verses of the Almighty; He never errs; only the narrators of quran have gone astray; they have no right to clarify on Quran when the Furqan was not at all a guide in their entire lives.

2219, 1667, 443, 590 have different and vague rules regarding alcohol. Why not have a single and precise one, saying no alcohol!?

Why include parts which humans don't understand?
There is no part in Quran which does not make sense.

Oh come on, there's 100s. How does 411 HM aid in salvation and the reward of heaven?

If you are well informed of all that is said above, and if you think you are sure to receive the message soulfully and attentively to your Ruh, then I will follow up with this question

Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?
There was not a human who did not have a soul to think and act from the time man is born in this world.

Are you saying the Koran existed 200,000 years ago? A human usually uses their brain to think. If I say I think with my mukali, you would question my integrity or sanity or both.

You have come close to say to yourself, "Yes!"
.

StopS

When you remember a knowledge it is memory. Knowledge is what you sense through your 5 physical senses either individually or collectively. The more collective your knowledge is based on all your 5 physical senses, the higher is your perception and the better will be your memory. A man must thus have collective acute sensitivity to perceive. These are the people who are set for higher standards of understanding, i.e. to receive from the 6th sense - from the "Soul" or the "Ruh". These are the sensible people who Allah is pleased with. And He chooses from among them, His messengers and the prophets for His Messages, through His Soul or Ruh. If you could understand this far, then answer to the rest of your Q.1 shall continue.

It is amazing how many times I get exactly this response. No idea why, because it is wrong on so many levels.

Sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch are only 5 senses. What about temperature, kinesthetics, pain, balance, acceleration, etc etc etc???
Because we are so limited, humans have developed sensors for magnetism, pressure, the entire light spectrum, the entire audio spectrum, consistencies of chemicals and atoms, and so on and on
Knowledge has nothing at all to do with anything we individually perceive. Speakers make you think a plane is approaching from the right behind you, optical illusions tell you there is movement when there is not, etc etc
You are mixing knowledge with belief
Telling me something you believe about a soul does not prove the existence of the soul to others.
The mind using intellect is what absorbs information, not a "soul". The rest is just some esoteric mumbo-jumbo.

Brain can receive and understand only what is materially existing. It cannot understand the 6th sense - the soul or the ruh - unless you become perceptible by training yourself to experience above the 5 physical senses.

Ooops. Do you know what a concept is? I use "infinity" in mathematics all the time. Does infinity exist materially? You need to learn about some basics within reality, it seems.
I asked a very specific question. You did not understand the question. Why can't you just ask me to reword the question or simply say I don't know, instead of giving me this "soul" response all the time?

It is my humble duty to inform you

But is it not better to say "I don't know" than to provide a false answer?

If you are well informed of all that is said above, and if you think you are sure to receive the message soulfully and attentively to your Ruh, then I will follow up with this question

I asked a question, when you ridiculed it I gave an example and now you brush it aside? If I ask a question, how can I ask by saying "yes"?

drfazl

It is amazing how many times I get exactly this response. No idea why, because it is wrong on so many levels.

Sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch are only 5 senses. What about temperature, kinesthetics, pain, balance, acceleration, etc etc etc???
Because we are so limited, humans have developed sensors for magnetism, pressure, the entire light spectrum, the entire audio spectrum, consistencies of chemicals and atoms, and so on and on
Knowledge has nothing at all to do with anything we individually perceive. Speakers make you think a plane is approaching from the right behind you, optical illusions tell you there is movement when there is not, etc etc
You are mixing knowledge with belief
Telling me something you believe about a soul does not prove the existence of the soul to others.
The mind using intellect is what absorbs information, not a "soul". The rest is just some esoteric mumbo-jumbo.

Ooops. Do you know what a concept is? I use "infinity" in mathematics all the time. Does infinity exist materially? You need to learn about some basics within reality, it seems.
I asked a very specific question. You did not understand the question. Why can't you just ask me to reword the question or simply say I don't know, instead of giving me this "soul" response all the time?

But is it not better to say "I don't know" than to provide a false answer?

I asked a question, when you ridiculed it I gave an example and now you brush it aside? If I ask a question, how can I ask by saying "yes"?

drfazl

I asked a question, when you ridiculed it I gave an example and now you brush it aside? If I ask a question, how can I ask by saying "yes"?

My sincere apologies if you had taken my answer as ridicule; it shall never be my intention.

It is amazing how many times I get exactly this response. No idea why, because it is wrong on so many levels.

Sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch are only 5 senses. What about temperature, kinesthetics, pain, balance, acceleration, etc etc etc???

Truth as a response and an answer to confusion always remains exactly the same. You ask what about temperature, kinetics, pain, etc. Temperature and pain are concerned with touch; kinetics is concerned with sight, hearing and touch in the form of vibration. Do you have anything to say apart from this?

Because we are so limited, humans have developed sensors for magnetism, pressure, the entire light spectrum, the entire audio spectrum, consistencies of chemicals and atoms, and so on and on

Have 'humans'developed?' Or humans are 'in the process of developing?' If your choice of answer is the right one, then you have answered your question already. To the contrary if your answer confirms 'humans had developed in total and there is nothing more left of the wisdom to be revealed to the knowledge of humans, then here are your challenge

You can destroy an atom but you cannot create an atom.
You can play havoc with the lives of humans but you cannot bring peace or serenity.
You cannot create a spec of a dust; or an element of air; or a molecule of water - if you can create any of these, then do so but you should not use any of the elements God created in the entire universe.

With your entire audio spectrum you can analyse the noises; but can you hear the lone voice of one's conscience as it speaks to him so constantly? with the understanding on your electro magnetic spectrum, can you create one of your own without touching anything God has created? with the entire knowledge on the spectrum of light can you create the sun? Can you, with your spectrum of knowledge shift and reverse the night and the day? Knowledge we have is absolute falsehood and it has nothing to do with the creation or the origination.

Knowledge has nothing at all to do with anything we individually perceive. Speakers make you think a plane is approaching from the right behind you, optical illusions tell you there is movement when there is not, etc etc

Yes. Knowledge cannot perceive; nor can it imbibe the truth. Individuals make society. And we know now without such perception, you shall keep developing through infinity, yet you cannot touch the truth of creative wisdom. The knowledge shall only take us for a ride with its illusion; and above all the knowledge is absolute confusion. Only with your inner sense, your soul or the Ruh can save your mind from all illusionary pollution of the senseless, moronic knowledge the self-destructible human scientific advancement of the present times.

You are mixing knowledge with belief

I am connecting the soul or ruh with the creative life force of.

Telling me something you believe about a soul does not prove the existence of the soul to others.

Soul makes an individual an individual. it is the most personal feel. It is one's soul or the ruh that empowers and propels him to go with belief beyond the dead end of what he has as knowledge, so that his soul attains solace. Beyond all your all time knowledge the soulful wish is the starting point of your life in this earth. Unless you believe in the ruh there is not a reprieve even.

The mind using intellect is what absorbs information, not a "soul". The rest is just some esoteric mumbo-jumbo.

I do not have the power to open your insight if you have decidedly shuttered it down.

Ooops. Do you know what a concept is? I use "infinity" in mathematics all the time. Does infinity exist materially? You need to learn about some basics within reality, it seems.
I asked a very specific question. You did not understand the question. Why can't you just ask me to reword the question or simply say I don't know, instead of giving me this "soul" response all the time?

Concept is opposite to the Truth or something that infinitely lagging behind the Truth.
I connect with the ruh or the soulful truth in my travel through eternity.

But is it not better to say "I don't know" than to provide a false answer?

Do not lose heart! God willing He will soon endow you with the perception.
.

StopS

Truth as a response and an answer to confusion always remains exactly the same. You ask what about temperature, kinetics, pain, etc. Temperature and pain are concerned with touch; kinetics is concerned with sight, hearing and touch in the form of vibration. Do you have anything to say apart from this?

No, I don't. It seems we have a communication problem. Could you please read my entire sentences and not just some select words?

You stated "Knowledge is what you sense through your 5 physical senses either individually or collectively." This is wrong.
There is a difference between knowledge and belief. You are describing belief and using the word knowledge.
My statement is there are not just 5 senses. Are you kidding me? Are you playing games? Pain is a nerve issue and has nothing to do with touch.

Have 'humans'developed?' Or humans are 'in the process of developing?' If your choice of answer is the right one, then you have answered your question already.

Both.
I am not asking a question with this but correcting your misinformation. You might be thinking you are providing information, but it is more false information and more confusing than helpful.

To the contrary if your answer confirms 'humans had developed in total and there is nothing more left of the wisdom to be revealed to the knowledge of humans, then here are your challenge

You can destroy an atom but you cannot create an atom.
You can play havoc with the lives of humans but you cannot bring peace or serenity.
You cannot create a spec of a dust; or an element of air; or a molecule of water - if you can create any of these, then do so but you should not use any of the elements God created in the entire universe.

With your entire audio spectrum you can analyse the noises; but can you hear the lone voice of one's conscience as it speaks to him so constantly? with the understanding on your electro magnetic spectrum, can you create one of your own without touching anything God has created? with the entire knowledge on the spectrum of light can you create the sun? Can you, with your spectrum of knowledge shift and reverse the night and the day? Knowledge we have is absolute falsehood and it has nothing to do with the creation or the origination.

Yes. Knowledge cannot perceive; nor can it imbibe the truth. Individuals make society. And we know now without such perception, you shall keep developing through infinity, yet you cannot touch the truth of creative wisdom. The knowledge shall only take us for a ride with its illusion; and above all the knowledge is absolute confusion. Only with your inner sense, your soul or the Ruh can save your mind from all illusionary pollution of the senseless, moronic knowledge the self-destructible human scientific advancement of the present times.

I am connecting the soul or ruh with the creative life force of.

Soul makes an individual an individual. it is the most personal feel. It is one's soul or the ruh that empowers and propels him to go with belief beyond the dead end of what he has as knowledge, so that his soul attains solace. Beyond all your all time knowledge the soulful wish is the starting point of your life in this earth. Unless you believe in the ruh there is not a reprieve even.

I do not have the power to open your insight if you have decidedly shuttered it down.

Concept is opposite to the Truth or something that infinitely lagging behind the Truth.
I connect with the ruh or the soulful truth in my travel through eternity.

Do not lose heart! God willing He will soon endow you with the perception.
.

Yeah, right. Have fun.

drfazl

No, I don't. It seems we have a communication problem. Could you please read my entire sentences and not just some select words?

You stated "Knowledge is what you sense through your 5 physical senses either individually or collectively." This is wrong.
There is a difference between knowledge and belief. You are describing belief and using the word knowledge.
My statement is there are not just 5 senses. Are you kidding me? Are you playing games? Pain is a nerve issue and has nothing to do with touch.

Both.
I am not asking a question with this but correcting your misinformation. You might be thinking you are providing information, but it is more false information and more confusing than helpful.

Yeah, right. Have fun.

May better sense prevail,
Peace.
.