Is the majority always incorrect?
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Salamun Alaykum,
Today a friend of mine was irritating me by saying that I?m too ?Religious? in a negative way for I study the Quran more than the rest of my peers. So, I asked him, 'Define Religious'. He said, 'Whoever follows religion', I asked, 'What religion are you talking about', and he said, 'Islam', and I asked him, 'Why do you say Islam is a religion (Madhhab) when Quran says that its a way/system of life (Deen)', to which he said, 'Because the whole world says it', I continued to say that the 'Whole world' doesn't act as a basis for anything, and he said, 'Yeah right, so you're trying to tell me that you out of all the people you are right', and I said, 'No I'm not the only one, there are several people who agree with me, and think like me, but they are in the minority (I was referring to you guys group)'. He responded, 'That settles it, the majority is right', to which I lost my temper, may God forgive me for that, and said, 'Listen man the Quran says that don't follow the majority cause they'll lead you astray as they follow nothing but conjecture !', he said something, I don't exactly remember what, to which I replied, 'The whole verse states 'The follow nothing but conjecture', thus, not always the majority is incorrect, but in matters where they state an opinion without a basis, they are', to which he said something that shut me up, he gave a dirty example to prove his point, 'If you say that the majority is not right when it doesn't have proof, then lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they provided proof right?' and I was like, o and I changed the topic, and now I'm asking you guys, can someone help me by presenting their opinion of 6116 that doesn't allow room for such objections? Is there something I'm missing in this verse? Am I not understanding it correctly? Is the majority always incorrect when they don't provide proof? Or is it only in certain aspects such as religious matters only?
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Salaaman FA 21098,
6116 is enough to understand, and why is it said so in 6116 that they will misguide you from the path of Allah is because
... in 2243, 1238, 4061
... in 7187, 1221, 1240, 1268, 1638, 306, 3030, 3428, 3436, 4057, 4526
... in 1117, 131, 4059
... in 1789, 2550
... in 1854
And for his dirty example, so if 314 helps you.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
Shalom Aleikhem,
Majority/Minorty opinion has nothing to do with the validity of a claim. Any argument which tries to justify it by saying things like "many/most people believe so" is a logical fallacy. It is known as "Argumentum ad Populum". Even though it is supposed to be easily understandable, many do however fall into this logical fallacy far more often than I would think they would. Even if everyone on this planet "believed" we are biological beings, that fact can not be used as evidence to justify the belief itself. The claim that we are biological beings should be demonstrable with reason/evidence/proof.
Now let us go to 6116
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
The ayaat does not state that majority = wrong on everything because its the popular/majority view/opinion. That is a gross misinterpretation. The verse comes in 2 parts
Part 1 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God;
Part 2 that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.Part 1 states that following most of those on earth is a bad idea. However, the reasoning is given in Part 2. Part 2 justifies what was said in Part 1 not by saying that it is because they are the majority view but by reasoning that they are views based on conjecture and guess-works.
I am a bit confused about you and your friend. In the beginning of the story, your friend was commiting the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad Populum. But as the story develops, it seems that it was you who was doing that too. Confused !! Anyways, here is my take on your friend's thought experiment
Experiment 'If you say that the majority is right when it doesn't have proof, then lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they proved proof right?'
Criticism
"If you say that the majority is right when it doesn't have proof"
I do not say that majority or minority or SpongeBob or anyone is right until they can demonstrate that their claim is valid. So, the very "Premise" of the entire argument/experiment is something which I do not agree with. Now you may be wondering why then I even bothered to write. Well let me tell you why. This is what your friend says later
"lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they proved proof right?"
What he is saying there is that
Majority opinion = Rape is ok
Evidence = Men are sexually attracted to womenI really don't follow his/her logic. Even if the majority opinion was that Rape is ok, how does sexual attraction on itself be used as justification for Rape ? That isnt a proof by any definition. Its like me stealing food and saying, "there is biological proof that I can be hungry, therefore getting my food by stealing is justified". That is absurd kind of reasoning. If you apply 6116 to this, you will notice that PART 2 of the ayaat actually stops people from doing such illogical things. Because there is no evidence to support/justify "Rape" based simply on the fact that "I am attracted". That would be conjecture and guessworks at its best !!
Before I end my post, I would like to remind you again that in 6114, the reasoning given for misleading is not their numbers but their methodology.
Peace
---------------- Student of Allah -
Salaaman FA 21098,
6116 is enough to understand, and why is it said so in 6116 that they will misguide you from the path of Allah is because
... in 2243, 1238, 4061
... in 7187, 1221, 1240, 1268, 1638, 306, 3030, 3428, 3436, 4057, 4526
... in 1117, 131, 4059
... in 1789, 2550
... in 1854
And for his dirty example, so if 314 helps you.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhanThank you so much for the references ;D they are of great benefit to me, may God give you a long healthy happy life
Shalom Aleikhem,
Majority/Minorty opinion has nothing to do with the validity of a claim. Any argument which tries to justify it by saying things like "many/most people believe so" is a logical fallacy. It is known as "Argumentum ad Populum". Even though it is supposed to be easily understandable, many do however fall into this logical fallacy far more often than I would think they would. Even if everyone on this planet "believed" we are biological beings, that fact can not be used as evidence to justify the belief itself. The claim that we are biological beings should be demonstrable with reason/evidence/proof.
Now let us go to 6116
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
The ayaat does not state that majority = wrong on everything because its the popular/majority view/opinion. That is a gross misinterpretation. The verse comes in 2 parts
Part 1 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God;
Part 2 that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.Part 1 states that following most of those on earth is a bad idea. However, the reasoning is given in Part 2. Part 2 justifies what was said in Part 1 not by saying that it is because they are the majority view but by reasoning that they are views based on conjecture and guess-works.
I am a bit confused about you and your friend. In the beginning of the story, your friend was commiting the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad Populum. But as the story develops, it seems that it was you who was doing that too. Confused !! Anyways, here is my take on your friend's thought experiment
Experiment 'If you say that the majority is right when it doesn't have proof, then lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they proved proof right?'
Criticism
"If you say that the majority is right when it doesn't have proof"
I do not say that majority or minority or SpongeBob or anyone is right until they can demonstrate that their claim is valid. So, the very "Premise" of the entire argument/experiment is something which I do not agree with. Now you may be wondering why then I even bothered to write. Well let me tell you why. This is what your friend says later
"lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they proved proof right?"
What he is saying there is that
Majority opinion = Rape is ok
Evidence = Men are sexually attracted to womenI really don't follow his/her logic. Even if the majority opinion was that Rape is ok, how does sexual attraction on itself be used as justification for Rape ? That isnt a proof by any definition. Its like me stealing food and saying, "there is biological proof that I can be hungry, therefore getting my food by stealing is justified". That is absurd kind of reasoning. If you apply 6116 to this, you will notice that PART 2 of the ayaat actually stops people from doing such illogical things. Because there is no evidence to support/justify "Rape" based simply on the fact that "I am attracted". That would be conjecture and guessworks at its best !!
Before I end my post, I would like to remind you again that in 6114, the reasoning given for misleading is not their numbers but their methodology.
Peace
---------------- Student of AllahI don't think anyone could have explained it to me better than you, thanks a lot. As for the confusion, well, its my fault, a typing error occurred, I had to write, 'If you say that the majority is not right when it doesn't have proof, then lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they provided proof right?' where I wrote 'If you say that the majority is right when it doesn't have proof, then lets say if the majority says that men should randomly **** women, and provide the proof that men feel excited by looking at women, does that mean they are right in this case? As they provided proof right?'
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Dear Fallen Angel,
I am confused now.
lol, I guess we're even now
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laugh
(I'll get you back, don't you worry, old chap!) elektro
lol we'll see
Peace FallenAngel,
I think the example he gave you was very poor. I would have been too. He did not provide an intellectual retort to your argument, and his vulgarity would have even set me back from answering him.
Exactly
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'Why do you say Islam is a religion (Madhhab) when Quran says that its a way/system of life (Deen)',
Deen is not "system", Deen is attitude/judgement/opinion towards something..
And majority or minority doesn't have any correlation whatsoever with truth ..
Sometime the 'majority' (on certain society) follow truth and sometime the majority (on certain society) follow falsehood.There's something called subjective and objective judgement..
Subjective focus more on 'who said it' while objective focus more on 'what's being said'...
Between those two, 'objective judgement' is much better..Salam / Peace
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Deen is not "system", Deen is attitude/judgement/opinion towards something..
Salaam Jafar,
Red Wrong! Can you please quote any aayat from where you understand that Deen does not mean System?
Blue You have translated the word "Hikmat" not Deen. Hikmat or Hukm means Judgement.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
The majority IS always incorrect!
Period.
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Peace,
The issue we fall into when it comes to the "majority" is that we begin to adopt something called "group think". It's a psychological term meaning that we start to take on the ideas of others for the sake of unity, and as a result we end up overlooking the serious flaws in our system.
I believe God is asking us to avoid this "group think" mentality, and think and speak as individuals, regardless how out of this world our ideas may seem sometimes. I believe that God is defending freedom of speech and expression in this verse. It is then up to us as individuals to ensure that we are being sincere in our thinking process and making an effort to avoid any personal biases.
In actuality, I believe that the majority, never really agrees on anything. However, they present a facade, in which they convince the other party that they are united, no matter what.
For example, I am categorized as an "Independent" politically. This is means that I am neither Democrat, Republican, or Green entirely. I borrow ideas from their ideologies, and then I also have my own formulated. However, I've noticed that even those people who consider themselves exclusively "Democrat" or "Republican, tend to have ideas that could fit within one another's scope quite easily.
Still, they will never admit to it, because they want to give the impression that they are strong in their unity and a force to be reckoned with.
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Salaam Jafar,
Red Wrong! Can you please quote any aayat from where you understand that Deen does not mean System?
Blue You have translated the word "Hikmat" not Deen. Hikmat or Hukm means Judgement.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhanI think I've made a post on this one...
Deen is Judgement/Attitude/Opinion towards something.. it's a common semitic word, you can even try to cross check with Hebrew bible and you found the same meanings of "Deen" in Hebrew..Hikmat from H-K-M is wisdom / deep understanding..
But anyway you're free to believe / judge / give opinion on whatever you want..
"La Ikraha Fiddien"... No compulsory in judgement/opinion/attitude towards something.Salam / Peace
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Shalom Aleikhem,
The majority IS always incorrect!
Period.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how wrong your assertion is. If not all, then atleast an overwhelming majority of the people on this planet will agree that we are human beings. And according to your baseless assertion, we are all wrong.
Being correct/incorrect is not dependent on how many people agree/disagree with you.
Peace
------------ Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how wrong your assertion is. If not all, then atleast an overwhelming majority of the people on this planet will agree that we are human beings. And according to your baseless assertion, we are all wrong.
Being correct/incorrect is not dependent on how many people agree/disagree with you.
Peace
------------ Student of AllahYou are perfectly right!
It is always enormously dangerous to speak in general terms.
I meant that the majority is wrong in some religious approaches though, same as communism and fascism were wrong in trying to establish the rules and universal laws for all.
God and the Qur'an speaks to each and everyone on the individualistic level, and gives the knowledge and enlightenment according to each one soul's rank.
No place for the majority rule there!