Perception and thought in 4:3-Polygamy for pleasure or obligation
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Salamun alaiki,
Allah the Exalted knows the best about ground realities, various types and psyche of people, and accordingly issues injunctions and advices primarily to protect the vulnerables.
The law is always for the over all good of the society. Only the emotionalists, people who govern their lives not on physical realities and rational thinking but by passion will always be there even when the most ideal law exists on Earth.
It is not the question of grammar and human element. It is plain translation of the text of the Book.
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Peace Mazhar,
How can we divorce the human element from the plain translation of the Book? Whose translation is the correct translation?
If we are truly human, then are we not all emotionalists? Were we not created weak? How is one married without any emotional connection with their partner or is it merely a contract of convenience?
The overall good should be beneficial to all people, not just beneficial to one group while neglecting the needs of another.
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Peace Mazhar,
How can we divorce the human element from the plain translation of the Book? Whose translation is the correct translation?
If we are truly human, then are we not all emotionalists? Were we not created weak? How is one married without any emotional connection with their partner or is it merely a contract of convenience?
The overall good should be beneficial to all people, not just beneficial to one group while neglecting the needs of another.
Allah the Exalted best knows all these factors. Contact is the result of liking and mutual understanding-consent while caring for the accepted norms and law of the society. Allah the Exalted has provided laws and injunctions for meeting all such requirments.
Allah the Exalted has granted permissions to all women and men, and has laid the law where injustices can be done by either party and for regulating desires, emotions, etc etc so that pleasures are subjected to qualifications.
The operative part of the Guide Manual-the Book Grand Qur'aan is all about three parts of the body; Chest the centre of desires, emotions, passions, and what not; central part that has its own requirements to revert to dynamic balance of the whole body, and then the lower part without which the life would be robotic.
All desires and appetities of the operative areas of body need social contact with others and society. If everyone satisfies that according to his liking, there will be nothing but "fasad" in society. Therefore, the Book- the law regulates all those three areas caring for the needs of everyone without jeoperdizing the interest and rights of others.
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Peace Mazhar,
I guess we'll just have to disagree. -\
I can't help but know that my rights and interests would be infringed upon. I know that I will never tolerate a polygamous lifestyle regardless of the situation, and would initiate the divorce process. I'd rather be single and alone than live such a miserable existence.
I suppose it's one of those things that I can't get pass..
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Peace Mazhar,
I guess we'll just have to disagree. -\
I can't help but know that my rights and interests would be infringed upon. I know that I will never tolerate a polygamous lifestyle regardless of the situation, and would initiate the divorce process. I'd rather be single and alone than live such a miserable existence.
I suppose it's one of those things that I can't get pass..
What will do you in case of landing in the Paradise?
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Peace Mazhar
Do you mean that I won't land in Paradise for rejecting a polygamous lifestyle against my will?
Whatever happened to personal choice and freedom? I will not willingly suffer so greatly when there is no such requirement.
Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
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Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
Salaam,
rotfl
Salaam,
Benderor was it not supposed to be funny hmm
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Peace Mazhar,
Could you point out where in the Koran this fact is stated so clearly. Where does it make it clear to men that they cannot have sex with the mother of the orphans in these marriages?
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Peace Release,
I am a little confused. You seem to support the idea of polygamy for the sake of the unfortunate, but say you could never be part of it. If it is there to support society then surely you must follow God's laws. One cannot pick and choose. If you open up this option to society, some will suffer abuse under it. Because of this verse, many Saudi women wait until they are 30 so they do not have to marry a polygamous Saudi man. That is sad.
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Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
Peace Mazhar,
I am very confused now. My landing in Paradise is dependent on my husband? Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I'm already have difficulty following the "nisa" arguement on the other thread.
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Peace Release,
I am a little confused. You seem to support the idea of polygamy for the sake of the unfortunate, but say you could never be part of it. If it is there to support society then surely you must follow God's laws. One cannot pick and choose. If you open up this option to society, some will suffer abuse under it. Because of this verse, many Saudi women wait until they are 30 so they do not have to marry a polygamous Saudi man. That is sad.
Peace Dawn,
As I've said before, it's something I wouldn't want to do. I know that I cannot handle it, and am better left divorced and forgotten. This is why I can relate to you on an emotional level. However, I can't speak for everyone. If there are women out there who are okay with this arrangement, then I know that it can help some kids in life.
Also, I don't believe it to be a law, where it's a commandment. I believe it's an option for those with the resources, time, and cooperation of their initial spouse. An option among other options (MMA, mentoring, contributing money, volunteering, even marrying off some of the women to willing, able men, etc). The allowance ceases to exist once the situation no longer exists on such a large scale within the society.
As for the Saudi women, we've already talked about this. I'd like to see how many of these Saudi men are marrying widowed women with children. The majority of them want young virgins to satisfy only their carnal desires. They don't want any responsibilities. 4.3 points toward quite a few heavy responsibilities.
The word "If you fear..." cancel out any polygamy for any other reasons beside the one we're discussing. Now how will we educate the Saudi clergy on this matter? We can't. We can only talk about these things on Free Minds. God will only change their condition if and when they make an effort.
Dawn, can you see that the Saudi clergy are those who do not reflect so much on the Quran? Can you see that much of Saudi society does not make a good enough effort to change their condition? Can you see that the women do not have the support of their menfolk to make some real changes that we can see right off. So, how can we compare their injustices and suffering to what we're doing here? We're making an honest effort here, and I have a feeling that most of the men here who are discussing, are monogamous and love and respect their wives very much. I don't think anyone here is really male chauvinistic, we just have our convictions based on what we know to be true.
Honestly, I feel badly for those women. However, their predicament has nothing to do with Chapter 4. It has to do with the fact their scholars are not reading and reflecting on 4.3. 4.3 has nothing to do with young virgins, my wife is barren, wife is chronically or terminally ill, I want more children, etc. It revolves around orphans. How could they have missed that? It's because they don't want to read it for what it really it. Remember, by no means, is this the first verse that they've blatantly ignored or neglected to understand.
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Peace Mazhar,
Could you point out where in the Koran this fact is stated so clearly. Where does it make it clear to men that they cannot have sex with the mother of the orphans in these marriages?
Peace Mazhar,
Is this your opinion? I am also interested in knowing where the Quran hints that these are marriages contracted withholding sex?
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What will do you in case of landing in the Paradise?
Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
laugh laugh laugh
I hope that was a joke. This one truly takes the cake.
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Peace Mazhar,
I am very confused now. My landing in Paradise is dependent on my husband? Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I'm already have difficulty following the "nisa" arguement on the other thread.
Simple sentence interpreted negatively. A woman will be one of the four wives of a man in Paradise. She will remain the wife of her worldly husband provided he is also in the Paradise. It does not mean woman's entrance is dependent on husband. Husband Pharoah is in hell, his wife is in Paradise. It can be so with any married woman.
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Simple sentence interpreted negatively. A woman will be one of the four wives of a man in Paradise. She will remain the wife of her worldly husband provided he is also in the Paradise. It does not mean woman's entrance is dependent on husband. Husband Pharoah is in hell, his wife is in Paradise. It can be so with any married woman.
Peace Mazhar,
Mazhar, I did not interpret the sentence negatively. I read it and provided you with a response. I don't have any intentions of interpreting anything negatively.
Where does it say in the Quran that a woman will be one of the four wives of a man in Paradise? God does not connect polygamy with Paradise. I am sorry, but this reminds me of what Mormons have told me, they are big on connecting Paradise with polygamy. I don't believe Paradise and coercing women to accept a polygamous lifestyle are connected at all. I believe that coercion is a form of oppression, which may be connected to Hellfire.
I know that I cannot handle it. I will very humbly remove myself from the situation, and move forward in life, God willing. Perhaps, I would move back in with my parents if they are still alive. If my husband is adamant, then I will simply remove myself from the marriage and his life. It is important for me to have a sexual relationship with my husband that is monogamous, as I only trust my husband, and would not trust the other women in the same manner. If they were to bring STDs or have any contagious diseases, then this would become a serious problem. He can then go on and provide a good life for the orphans and their mothers. I will have no part in it, and God is my witness as I say this. I will not subject myself to depression and an unhealthy marriage, as I too have the right to happiness.
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Salaam,
rotfl
Salaam,
Benderor was it not supposed to be funny hmm
Apparently not but at least we know he's looking forward to the end of days...for better or worse.