Perception and thought in 4:3-Polygamy for pleasure or obligation
-
Peace Mazhar
Do you mean that I won't land in Paradise for rejecting a polygamous lifestyle against my will?
Whatever happened to personal choice and freedom? I will not willingly suffer so greatly when there is no such requirement.
Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
-
Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
Salaam,
rotfl
Salaam,
Benderor was it not supposed to be funny hmm
-
Peace Mazhar,
Could you point out where in the Koran this fact is stated so clearly. Where does it make it clear to men that they cannot have sex with the mother of the orphans in these marriages?
-
Peace Release,
I am a little confused. You seem to support the idea of polygamy for the sake of the unfortunate, but say you could never be part of it. If it is there to support society then surely you must follow God's laws. One cannot pick and choose. If you open up this option to society, some will suffer abuse under it. Because of this verse, many Saudi women wait until they are 30 so they do not have to marry a polygamous Saudi man. That is sad.
-
Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
Peace Mazhar,
I am very confused now. My landing in Paradise is dependent on my husband? Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I'm already have difficulty following the "nisa" arguement on the other thread.
-
Peace Release,
I am a little confused. You seem to support the idea of polygamy for the sake of the unfortunate, but say you could never be part of it. If it is there to support society then surely you must follow God's laws. One cannot pick and choose. If you open up this option to society, some will suffer abuse under it. Because of this verse, many Saudi women wait until they are 30 so they do not have to marry a polygamous Saudi man. That is sad.
Peace Dawn,
As I've said before, it's something I wouldn't want to do. I know that I cannot handle it, and am better left divorced and forgotten. This is why I can relate to you on an emotional level. However, I can't speak for everyone. If there are women out there who are okay with this arrangement, then I know that it can help some kids in life.
Also, I don't believe it to be a law, where it's a commandment. I believe it's an option for those with the resources, time, and cooperation of their initial spouse. An option among other options (MMA, mentoring, contributing money, volunteering, even marrying off some of the women to willing, able men, etc). The allowance ceases to exist once the situation no longer exists on such a large scale within the society.
As for the Saudi women, we've already talked about this. I'd like to see how many of these Saudi men are marrying widowed women with children. The majority of them want young virgins to satisfy only their carnal desires. They don't want any responsibilities. 4.3 points toward quite a few heavy responsibilities.
The word "If you fear..." cancel out any polygamy for any other reasons beside the one we're discussing. Now how will we educate the Saudi clergy on this matter? We can't. We can only talk about these things on Free Minds. God will only change their condition if and when they make an effort.
Dawn, can you see that the Saudi clergy are those who do not reflect so much on the Quran? Can you see that much of Saudi society does not make a good enough effort to change their condition? Can you see that the women do not have the support of their menfolk to make some real changes that we can see right off. So, how can we compare their injustices and suffering to what we're doing here? We're making an honest effort here, and I have a feeling that most of the men here who are discussing, are monogamous and love and respect their wives very much. I don't think anyone here is really male chauvinistic, we just have our convictions based on what we know to be true.
Honestly, I feel badly for those women. However, their predicament has nothing to do with Chapter 4. It has to do with the fact their scholars are not reading and reflecting on 4.3. 4.3 has nothing to do with young virgins, my wife is barren, wife is chronically or terminally ill, I want more children, etc. It revolves around orphans. How could they have missed that? It's because they don't want to read it for what it really it. Remember, by no means, is this the first verse that they've blatantly ignored or neglected to understand.
-
Peace Mazhar,
Could you point out where in the Koran this fact is stated so clearly. Where does it make it clear to men that they cannot have sex with the mother of the orphans in these marriages?
Peace Mazhar,
Is this your opinion? I am also interested in knowing where the Quran hints that these are marriages contracted withholding sex?
-
What will do you in case of landing in the Paradise?
Oh no,
In Paradise you will be one of the four wives of your present day husband if he also lands in Paradise. That is the question. This also shows that women are larger in number in Paradise than the number of men therein. What will be your option then!
laugh laugh laugh
I hope that was a joke. This one truly takes the cake.
-
Peace Mazhar,
I am very confused now. My landing in Paradise is dependent on my husband? Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I'm already have difficulty following the "nisa" arguement on the other thread.
Simple sentence interpreted negatively. A woman will be one of the four wives of a man in Paradise. She will remain the wife of her worldly husband provided he is also in the Paradise. It does not mean woman's entrance is dependent on husband. Husband Pharoah is in hell, his wife is in Paradise. It can be so with any married woman.
-
Simple sentence interpreted negatively. A woman will be one of the four wives of a man in Paradise. She will remain the wife of her worldly husband provided he is also in the Paradise. It does not mean woman's entrance is dependent on husband. Husband Pharoah is in hell, his wife is in Paradise. It can be so with any married woman.
Peace Mazhar,
Mazhar, I did not interpret the sentence negatively. I read it and provided you with a response. I don't have any intentions of interpreting anything negatively.
Where does it say in the Quran that a woman will be one of the four wives of a man in Paradise? God does not connect polygamy with Paradise. I am sorry, but this reminds me of what Mormons have told me, they are big on connecting Paradise with polygamy. I don't believe Paradise and coercing women to accept a polygamous lifestyle are connected at all. I believe that coercion is a form of oppression, which may be connected to Hellfire.
I know that I cannot handle it. I will very humbly remove myself from the situation, and move forward in life, God willing. Perhaps, I would move back in with my parents if they are still alive. If my husband is adamant, then I will simply remove myself from the marriage and his life. It is important for me to have a sexual relationship with my husband that is monogamous, as I only trust my husband, and would not trust the other women in the same manner. If they were to bring STDs or have any contagious diseases, then this would become a serious problem. He can then go on and provide a good life for the orphans and their mothers. I will have no part in it, and God is my witness as I say this. I will not subject myself to depression and an unhealthy marriage, as I too have the right to happiness.
-
Salaam,
rotfl
Salaam,
Benderor was it not supposed to be funny hmm
Apparently not but at least we know he's looking forward to the end of days...for better or worse.
-
Peace Mazhar,
I believe it was Dawn.
Pl see the meanings of Nikah in the article.
Allah the Exalted has however allowed that if the sexual intercourse is not done seperation-Talaq can be given. In such cases the woman can instantly marry another man without there being any restraint period.
-
Apparently not but at least we know he's looking forward to the end of days...for better or worse.
Salaam friendly neighbourhood mod,
Soon we will come to know if he is right or not, the end of days is near, just 2 weeks from now on. (source wiki)
The good news for all of us is that we will not get the torture of the grave, because 21 december is on a friday yay (source Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 1367)Salaam,
Bender -
Well, you're wrong because Monday is the day to die. All other days pale by comparision, it is known.
In any case, any day can be the end of days for us, might as well plan for it. On which note, I wonder what happens to a wife whose husband is bound for hell? Is she part of someone else's harem of heavenly delights or does she get 4 nymphs of her own. Then again, maybe heaven is just being rid of the guy.
peace
-
Then again, maybe heaven is just being rid of the guy.
Yes and opposite maybe true too...
6610 shows The God example for those who disbelieve woman Noah and woman Lot were under two servants from Our servants righteous so they both betrayed them so not they availed both of them from The God whatsoever and it was said enter the fire with the ones who enter
6611 and shows The God example to those who believe woman Pharaoh when said Lord build for me near You a house in the garden/paradise and save me from Pharaoh and his work and save me from the tribe the wrongdoers
Peace
-
Well, you're wrong because Monday is the day to die. All other days pale by comparision, it is known.
Salaam,
Are you questioning Al-Tirmidhi o this is clear Kufr with capital K.
In any case, any day can be the end of days for us, might as well plan for it. On which note, I wonder what happens to a wife whose husband is bound for hell? Is she part of someone else's harem of heavenly delights or does she get 4 nymphs of her own. Then again, maybe heaven is just being rid of the guy.
peace
D
What about a believer who dies, and then his believing wife marries a other believer, and the new husband also dies then she marries another believer, do they have to share her in paradise.
Salaam,
Bender -
Yes and opposite maybe true too...
Yep...but the male apparently gets a goodly amount of substitution.
Salaam,
Are you questioning Al-Tirmidhi o this is clear Kufr with capital K.
Tirmidhi is small fry, if I had questioned Bukhari then you'd have a point ;D
What about a believer who dies, and then his believing wife marries a other believer, and the new husband also dies then she marries another believer, do they have to share her in paradise.
Excellent question. Maybe there's heavenly cloning involved, along with some sort of perfected total recall like memory implantation so that she's not dreaming of one while with another.
peace