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  4. Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?

Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • J Offline
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    Joe_Betik
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Peace,

    The word 'kitab' (pl. 'kutub&#039 in the Q has almost always been understood to mean 'a book'.

    But I find it odd though, as I am quite sure that all of God's Messengers were given with (via revelation or 'n-z-l&#039 'messages' ('kutub&#039. To illustrate this; I am very sure that a book had never fallen onto the roofs of any Messenger's house, and definitely never onto their heads.

    We learn from the Q that the messages ('kutub&#039 received by God's Messengers would come piece meal, meaning as and when required/needed by the Messengers, either strictly for themselves or for the people around them.

    So logically, to me at least, 'books' were never revealed to God's Messengers. But 'messages' were revealed to them, rather.

    I am very sure that a shift in this paradigm will help us very much in our studies of the Q (a compilation of 'messages' revealed to Muhammad). But you may always choose to stick with 'a book' for 'kitab'.

    Browse here for word occurance http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ktb

    Hans Wehr kitab (pl. kutub) piece of writing, record, paper; letter, note, message; document, deed contract (esp. marriage contract); book.

    I post this so that perhaps some of you may want to consider, but you are always free to make a choice.

    Cheers!
    Mohammed Noh

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      bkanwar2
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Following is a cut and paste from a discussion on another forum, but relavant to your question.

      "Dear Junaid, if you would recall this discussion was started in previous thread by a question from Faisal. What is ? Then the discussion took several colors. This included a vehement opposition by some of irrabs, to extent they want these to be eliminated from current text and consider these a distraction for real understanding. I contended about first trying to understand the book as it is with help of linguistic rules only.

      If you would notice in current version of 22, I have corrected myself about understanding of word . This word is of such common use, that it is hard for people to even imagine; that its meaning could be different from what is accepted as common use.

      This is a Marfa noun. Marafa due to ?Al?, it is also a Musdar, verbal noun. Its root is ?Ka-Ta-Ba?. Its Wazan is . The root meaning is ?he wrote from what he learned?. Plus Wazan adds meanings of ?to refuse or take a flight? to the verbal root that is molded into this Wazan. If one were to use the formula of the language ?Root + Wazan = Meanings. This would mean ?to refuse and depart from learned written collection?. Just want to share the rationale of above change. Specially some fruit for thought for those who are familiar with basic of the language.

      Badar

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        Joe_Betik
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Salam Badar,

        Interesting post.

        1. Was the findings yours? If not, please dismiss #2.
        2. Could you please apply the new meaning of the word to some verses of the Q where 'kitab' appears, so we could all see the possibilities.

        Cheers!
        Mohammed Noh

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        • M Offline
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          mmkhan
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Salaam Mohammed Noh,

          I would like to share my understanding on what is alKitaab.

          May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
          mmKhan

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            Borakk
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Al Kitaab might be a collection of all the books revealed by Allah to his messengers - Old testament, new testament and Quran.

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              mirjamnur
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Salam
              interesting information
              let me to concluse from Badar we get

              This is a Marfa noun. Marafa due to ?Al?, it is also a Musdar, verbal noun. Its root is ?Ka-Ta-Ba?. Its Wazan is . The root meaning is ?he wrote from what he learned?. Plus Wazan adds meanings of ?to refuse or take a flight? to the verbal root that is molded into this Wazan. If one were to use the formula of the language ?Root + Wazan = Meanings.
              This would mean ?to refuse and depart from learned written collection?. Just want to share the rationale of above change. Specially some fruit for thought for those who are familiar with basic of the language.

              al kitab=?to refuse and depart from learned written collection

              this opinion point to the fact that al Quran = al kitab, because the Quran is the new ORAL revelation and depart from learned written collection (the suhufi abraham and mosa)

              so the Conclusion from mmkhan is not right? i also was sure that al Quran = al kitab and that al kitaab might be the collection of all the revealed inspirations/'books'- as Solomon said.

              thoughts??? confused
              Thank for help and peace

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                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Al Kitaab might be a collection of all the books revealed by Allah to his messengers - Old testament, new testament and Quran.

                We ignore the basics of a language and conceptualize concepts in air.

                In Arabic the word cannot be written in isolation. Except Proper Nous-Names and Pronouns, in Arabic the words in default state are always indefinite. Proper word which can be written in isolation is an undefined book. Use of needs a sentence-text because it denotes a book which has since been defined and both speaker and the listener-reader recognize that book.

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                  Borakk
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  We ignore the basics of a language and conceptualize concepts in air.

                  In Arabic the word cannot be written in isolation. Except Proper Nous-Names and Pronouns, in Arabic the words in default state are always indefinite. Proper word which can be written in isolation is an undefined book. Use of needs a sentence-text because it denotes a book which has since been defined and both speaker and the listener-reader recognize that book.

                  Let me rephrase "Kitab" would refer to a book, undefined. AlKitaab will refer to a defined book.

                  Reading the context of the verses where Alkitab is mentioned, I can find two possibilities

                  1. AlKitab refers to Quran + New/old testamnet

                  2. AlKitab refers to the "ayahs" or signs from the Lord specialized for each individual.

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                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Let me rephrase "Kitab" would refer to a book, undefined. AlKitaab will refer to a defined book.

                    Reading the context of the verses where Alkitab is mentioned, I can find two possibilities

                    1. AlKitab refers to Quran + New/old testamnet

                    2. AlKitab refers to the "ayahs" or signs from the Lord specialized for each individual.

                    One is masculine, the other is feminine. Miscellany of Aayaat written and compiled constitute what is called book.

                    Any book that is defined is then referred by the definite noun AlKitabu .
                    "Kitabuka" also means "The book" of you. Here Kitabu is definite withou prefixing "Al".

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                      mmkhan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      so the Conclusion from mmkhan is not right? i also was sure that al Quran = al kitab and that al kitaab might be the collection of all the revealed inspirations/'books'- as Solomon said.

                      Peace,

                      Red nope please take a look at this aayat.

                      1037
                      1037 This Quran could not have been produced without Allah; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and details AlKitaab in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

                      alQuraan details alKitaab, then how alQuraan = alKitaab?

                      May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
                      mmKhan

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                        Borakk
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        One is masculine, the other is feminine. Miscellany of Aayaat written and compiled constitute what is called book.

                        Any book that is defined is then referred by the definite noun AlKitabu .
                        "Kitabuka" also means "The book" of you. Here Kitabu is definite withou prefixing "Al".

                        Please explain what AlKitab may mean according to you? I'm not very good at Arabic.

                        Peace,

                        Red nope please take a look at this aayat.

                        1037
                        1037 This Quran could not have been produced without Allah; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and details AlKitaab in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

                        alQuraan details alKitaab, then how alQuraan = alKitaab?

                        May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
                        mmKhan

                        Peace,

                        What do you think about these two meanings?

                        Reading the context of the verses where Alkitab is mentioned, I can find two possibilities

                        1. AlKitab refers to Quran + New/old testamnet

                        2. AlKitab refers to the "ayahs" or signs from the Lord specialized for each individual.

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                        • M Offline
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                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Please explain what AlKitab may mean according to you? I'm not very good at Arabic.

                          This word at its own means nothing unless used in a text. Other words will explain which book it refers to.

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                          • M Offline
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                            mmkhan
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Let me rephrase "Kitab" would refer to a book, undefined. AlKitaab will refer to a defined book.

                            Peace Solomon,

                            Red How will you translate in 179]?

                            Reading the context of the verses where Alkitab is mentioned, I can find two possibilities

                            1. AlKitab refers to Quran + New/old testamnet

                            2. AlKitab refers to the "ayahs" or signs from the Lord specialized for each individual.

                            I understand, alKitaab means the writing/text and alQuraan means the reading/reciting.

                            May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                            mmKhan

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                            • B Offline
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                              Borakk
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Peace Solomon,

                              Red How will you translate in 179]?

                              I understand, alKitaab means the writing/text and alQuraan means the reading/reciting.

                              May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                              mmKhan

                              Peace mmKhan

                              In 179, I see the phrase "Al Quran". Al = THE. Quran = recitation. So I'd read it as "Indeed, This Quran guides us...."

                              If Al Quran means a "recitation", I wonder how can a recitation possibly guide us? I mean, I can recite the Quran all day and take bribes/commit sin later?

                              As far as I can see, "AlKitab" is often used to refer to jews/christians. This is why i think it might mean the followers of book revealed to Muhammad and all other messengers.

                              This word at its own means nothing unless used in a text. Other words will explain which book it refers to.

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                                mirjamnur
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Salam

                                Peace Solomon,

                                Red How will you translate in ?

                                I understand, alKitaab means the writing/text and alQuraan means the reading/reciting.

                                May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                                mmKhan

                                hmm i think you are right-- peace

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                                  bkanwar2
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Salam Badar,

                                  Interesting post.

                                  1. Was the findings yours? If not, please dismiss #2.
                                  2. Could you please apply the new meaning of the word to some verses of the Q where 'kitab' appears, so we could all see the possibilities.

                                  Cheers!
                                  Mohammed Noh

                                  Yes, and for a start please ponder upon this.

                                  21

                                  Man (mankind) has suffered intensely.

                                  22

                                  This suffering for you is due to the refusal and departure from the learned collection of principles. Without a shadow of doubt, a timeless mode of conduct is contained, in it; for all those seeking to safe guard against, a life, lacking faculty of growth, intelligence, knowledge as well, free of sorrow and grief.

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                                  • F Offline
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                                    farida
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    As far as I can see, "AlKitab" is often used to refer to jews/christians. This is why i think it might mean the followers of book revealed to Muhammad and all other messengers.

                                    nope

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                                    • M Offline
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                                      Mazhar
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Peace Solomon,

                                      Red How will you translate in ?

                                      It is incorrect quote. Unless Inna which precedes it is mentioned the word cannot be in accusative case.

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                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Joe_Betik
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Salam,

                                        Brother MMKhan, thank you for sharing your views.

                                        Thank you also Brother Badar, for making the clarifications.

                                        To the rest, I do appreciate your participations.

                                        Just for discussion, in 22 we read 'thalika alkitabu. ...' Methinks 'this kitab' here refers to 'a-l-m', or 'a-l-m' (whatever it means or represents) is definitely a 'kitab'.

                                        If we were of the opinion that the meaning for 'a-l-m' is unknown, then we do not know what that first few verses of C 2 is all about. And for that matter all the other chapters with 'a-l-m'. We cannot pretend to understand them when we don't know the meaning of 'a-l-m'.

                                        More interesting is the fact that 'a-l-m' is also referred to as (tilka) 'ayat'/sign in other chapters. So in short, an object/subject could be both kitab or ayat.

                                        Any ideas?

                                        Cheers!
                                        Mohammed Noh

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                                          bkanwar2
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          You are correct in your thoughts about it referring to Alif-Lam-Miim. These so to called Huroof e Mukqtaats are not letters. These are words/sentences. This one fully fits tenth form of verb from root Alif-Lam-Miim.

                                          Dhalika , means both "this" and "that" refering to meanings of A L M, as, Man (Mankind) has suffered intensely. Dhalika, means, this suffering (for man/mankind), is due fleeing away from learned collection of principles.

                                          Furthermore, the above meaning of kitab, is further strengthen by meanings of word Quran, which is from root Q R A, which means "he collected together the thing; put it, or drew it together part by part or portion by portion". This clearly points out to source of quran as well.

                                          regards,

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