Al-Amiyr's claims and statements - let's examine
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So, questioning his fallacy of supposed knowledge being passed 44 generations, violates the "decorum"? And anybody who opposes him is an "unbeliever" like StopS? I went through his posts and as a rationalist I find nothing wrong with his questioning attitude. As I said, for us to take his claims seriously, he first has to explain why we should believe in something being passed down 44 generations when we don't believe hadiths.
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Al-amiyr Since Post 15 ( the Hidden Book) is going to be "EASY', would you please STICK to your promise/ "compromise" and answer the questions about yourself that your students have been asking you for, for days! We all have a right to know, Without being quoted more hadiths (ugh). Please do not post your family lineage again, as this is not answering the questions, obviously. I think your need for decorum is violating the rights of the students, in this particular case. You seem to have the time to answer a "couple" of the students, but not the ones who have real Questions?? Are you really going to take 8 more days to violate your "compromise"? wow
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Peace "al-amiyr", all.
Dear "al-amiyr", after reading your intial introduction (of yourself), I consciously decided-for a number of reasons-to refrain from reading your posts in regards to the "knowledge" you spoke of. I haven't really read much on the forum over the last few days, but I can see that you have had the great privilege of having threads dedicated to you, and, even more posts about you. At this stage, I will refrain from making judgments (although I reserve my right to do so in the future!). However, even though, admittedly, I am no genius (and I don't know whether you have covered this in a post previously), but have you not considered publishing this "knowledge" on a dedicated, personal website rather than being forced to be a virtual nomad due to being "evicted" from forum after forum? Surely, your own personal website dedicated to your cause will give you much more liberty to disseminate your "knowledge" on an independent platform, in a manner which, presumbly, would be much more preferable to you.
Peace out. peace
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Peace "al-amiyr", all.
Dear "al-amiyr", after reading your intial introduction (of yourself), I consciously decided-for a number of reasons-to refrain from reading your posts in regards to the "knowledge" you spoke of. I haven't really read much on the forum over the last few days, but I can see that you have had the great privilege of having threads dedicated to you, and, even more posts about you. At this stage, I will refrain from making judgments (although I reserve my right to do so in the future!). However, even though, admittedly, I am no genius (and I don't know whether you have covered this in a post previously), but have you not considered publishing this "knowledge" on a dedicated, personal website rather than being forced to be a virtual nomad due to being "evicted" from forum after forum? Surely, your own personal website dedicated to your cause will give you much more liberty to disseminate your "knowledge" on an independent platform, in a manner which, presumbly, would be much more preferable to you.
Peace out. peace
If you are suffering from delusions of religious grandiosity needing attention, then what you ask would defeat the purpose. Creating multiple personas such as spacetraveler, ironfist, FearGod and many more are part of it. Also, having an alter ego.
Es - we all need to be open minded which includes being open minded to the fact that there are persons in the world who are surfing from some psychological disorders.
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wa "alaykum salaam brother
You look like a powerful warrior, no wonder she always speaks about you. You really remind me of The Great companion of the Prophet (S+) Umar. I will quote another statement attributed to the prophet (S+) about umar (R+). The Messenger of ALLAAH (A*) (S+) swore and said that whenever shayTaan finds "umar ibn al_khaTTaab (R+) taking a path he takes another path.
Sahih al-Bukhari Book 66 hadiyth 3480
3480. It is related that Sa'id ibn Abi Waqqas said,The Messenger of Allah said, 'O Ibn al-Khattab! By the One in whose hand my soul is, whenever Shaytan finds you taking a path, he only takes a path other than your path.'"Islaam became mighty since "umar ibn al_khaTTaab (R+) became Muslim
Sahih al-Bukhari 3481
3481. It is related that 'Abdullah said, "We have become mighty since 'Umar became Muslim." I pray that ALLAAH give you wisdom and strength to help to defeat the ShayTaan and his allies. And help you build Islaam to the glory that it should be. And all praise be to ALLAAH Alone. inshaa allaah to everything.
wa "alaykum-us-salaamSalaamun Aleikum Brother
Please; you are too kind. wow Allaah (swt) has been most gracious to me, in bringing me to the faith, and granting me a believing wife Al humdu'Lilah. I'm just a humble Muslim and could in no way be compared to that giant of Islam, Umar Ibn AlKhattab. What ever good qualities I may have, all praise belongs to Allah.
I pray that He brings all believers ever closer to the straight path and grants us pure hearts. May He shower you with blessings brother, for your (thankless) efforts to increase our knowledge, and for your gentleness that truly reveals your illustruous lineage. May He hear your prayers and grant them. -
\Al-amiyr Since Post 15 ( the Hidden Book) is going to be "EASY', would you please STICK to your promise/ "compromise" and answer the questions about yourself that your students have been asking you for, for days! We all have a right to know, Without being quoted more hadiths (ugh). Please do not post your family lineage again, as this is not answering the questions, obviously. I think your need for decorum is violating the rights of the students, in this particular case. You seem to have the time to answer a "couple" of the students, but not the ones who have real Questions?? Are you really going to take 8 more days to violate your "compromise"? wow
Salaam
We reverence God, among many things, as our Teacher, who taught us with the pen. For that reason every teacher, brother AlAmiyr among them, deserve our deepest respect and gratitude, and should be addressed with humbleness. Students have rights certainly but also duties, don't ever forget that >(. -
I welcomed the idea of pulling together the opinions in one single discussion where the different opinions on this person and the tactics could be questioned, voiced and discussed. But isn't this now becoming something of an obsession? Are the different threads all concerning one person an overkill or a necessity?
Yes, his threads/posts are little different than spamming.
I'm just a humble Muslim and could in no way be compared to that giant of Islam, Umar Ibn AlKhattab.
Peace -- this same giant guy who stoned people and claimed verses are missing?
9 Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Sa'id from Sulayman ibn Yasar from Abu Waqid al-Laythi that a man came to 'Umar ibn al-Khattab while he was in Syria. He mentioned to him that he had found a man with his wife. 'Umar sent Abu Waqid al-Laythi to the wife to question her about that. He came to her while there were women around her and mentioned to her what her husband had mentioned to 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, and informed her that she would not be punished on his word and began to suggest to her by that she should retract her confession. She refused to retract and held firm to her confession. 'Umar gave the order and she was stoned.
10 Malik related to me that Yahya ibn Sa'id heard Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab say, "When 'Umar ibn al-Khattab came from Mina, he made his camel kneel at al-Abtah and then he gathered a pile of small stones and cast his cloak over them and dropped to the ground. Then he raised his hands towards the sky and said, 'O Allah! I have become old and my strength has weakened. My flock is scattered. Take me to You with nothing missed out and without having neglected anything.' Then he went to Madina and addressed the people, saying, 'People! Sunan have been laid down for you. Obligations have been placed upon you. You have been left with a clear way unless you lead people astray right and left.' He struck one of his hands on the other and then said, 'Take care lest you destroy the ayat of stoning so that someone will say, "We do not find two hadds in the Book of Allah." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, stoned, so we have stoned. By Him in Whose hand my soul is, had it not been that people would say that 'Umar ibn al-Khattab has added to the Book of Allah, we would have written it "The full-grown man and the full-grown woman, stone them absolutely." We have certainly recited that.' "
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Peace -- this same giant guy who stoned people and claimed verses are missing?
Who are we to pass judgement on those who went before us and especially those who were companions of the Prophet? I believe ahadith have a certain historical value, but we certainly can not add to our God given deen from them, nor can we judge the faith of our forebears. Allahu'aalim hail
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Who are we to pass judgement on those who went before us and especially those who were companions of the Prophet? I believe ahadith have a certain historical value, but we certainly can not add to our God given deen from them, nor can we judge the faith of our forebears. Allahu'aalim hail
I asked a question; you are the one who passed judgement calling him a giant who stoned people?
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I asked a question; you are the one who passed judgement calling him a giant who stoned people?
The fact that there are ahadith claiming that Umar did this or that yeah, does not make it so. Remember Umar (ra) was and is a controvertial figure to many, not least Shiites, and so I take any negative statements about him with a sizeable pinch of salt. I doubt very much that any of the close companions of the prophet(saw), who lived according to the Quraan, could have followed anything other than the Qu'raan.
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Peace -- this same giant guy who stoned people and claimed verses are missing?
9 Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Sa'id from Sulayman ibn Yasar from Abu Waqid al-Laythi that a man came to 'Umar ibn al-Khattab while he was in Syria. He mentioned to him that he had found a man with his wife. 'Umar sent Abu Waqid al-Laythi to the wife to question her about that. He came to her while there were women around her and mentioned to her what her husband had mentioned to 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, and informed her that she would not be punished on his word and began to suggest to her by that she should retract her confession. She refused to retract and held firm to her confession. 'Umar gave the order and she was stoned.
10 Malik related to me that Yahya ibn Sa'id heard Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab say, "When 'Umar ibn al-Khattab came from Mina, he made his camel kneel at al-Abtah and then he gathered a pile of small stones and cast his cloak over them and dropped to the ground. Then he raised his hands towards the sky and said, 'O Allah! I have become old and my strength has weakened. My flock is scattered. Take me to You with nothing missed out and without having neglected anything.' Then he went to Madina and addressed the people, saying, 'People! Sunan have been laid down for you. Obligations have been placed upon you. You have been left with a clear way unless you lead people astray right and left.' He struck one of his hands on the other and then said, 'Take care lest you destroy the ayat of stoning so that someone will say, "We do not find two hadds in the Book of Allah." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, stoned, so we have stoned. By Him in Whose hand my soul is, had it not been that people would say that 'Umar ibn al-Khattab has added to the Book of Allah, we would have written it "The full-grown man and the full-grown woman, stone them absolutely." We have certainly recited that.' "
Peace
Could you explain your understanding of this statement, "this same giant guy who stoned people and claimed verses are missing?"
Peace
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Peace
Could you explain your understanding of this statement, "this same giant guy who stoned people and claimed verses are missing?"
Peace -- why you ask? Did they stone the mother of a 2 year old or not?
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Peace -- why you ask? Did they stone the mother of a 2 year old or not?
Why not start your own thread on the subject of Umar's (ra) pros and cons, rather than once again arresting the progress of al-amiyr's exposition of the hidden book by asking questions that belong to a whole different subject? Time is running short here and, I for one, would like to see brother al-amiyr's expose of the hidden book to its conclusion, and not waste any more time. peace
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Peace
The part that I emphasized.
PeacePeace -- what happened to the verses? Did your giant stone people or not?
"...and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it.
Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession." (Bukhari, Hadith 632"
Why not start your own thread on the subject of Umar's (ra) pros and cons, rather than once again arresting the progress of al-amiyr's exposition of the hidden book by asking questions that belong to a whole different subject? Time is running short here and, I for one, would like to see brother al-amiyr's expose of the hidden book to its conclusion, and not waste any more time. peace
No you guys brought it up "the giant of stoning" and now trying defend it; besides the hidden stuff is pointless spam.
Peace
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Peace -- what happened to the verses? Did your giant stone people or not?
Not! The Quraan is complete and there's no verse on stoning there. Hence the Prophet (saw) did NOT stone and neither did Umar (ra) peace Calling brother al-amiyr's teaching spam is a severe statement indeed. You may, very soon, feel a fool for having stated it wow
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Peace -- why you ask? Did they stone the mother of a 2 year old or not?
Salaam brother Nun
Tell me why do you want to know the answer to a half sentence? Is it because you are not sure about the other half? If that is the case why waste your valuable time and ours on some of which you have no knowledge?
I know you since I started posting in this forum and was always impressed with you calculations skills; you challenged RK supporters and my trust in your skill resulted in me not bothering with code 19 with them, though I ALWAYS believed that there is a code 19 in the Qu'ran.
Now I challenge you to prove code 19, to be presented by Imam al-amiyr, wrong and for that you must respect the fact that he is single handedly doing lots of tasks which including important PM tution too.farida
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Peace -- what happened to the verses? Did your giant stone people or not?
"...and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it.
Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession." (Bukhari, Hadith 632"
No you guys brought it up "the giant of stoning" and now trying defend it; besides the hidden stuff is pointless spam.
Peace
Peace
This is my last comment for now until my next uload inshaa allaah.
Umar (r+) did not refer to the Qur'aan. He was referring to the Book (al-kitaab). Show me where he said the Qur'aan. It is those who do not have knowledge of the kitaab that sees the conflicts. In many other statements umar (r+) made a distinction between the Qur'aan and the Book (al-kitaab). In one example he had a bishop come to visit him and he asked the bishop. "Do you find me in the Book (al-Kitaab)? And the bishop said yes. He then asked the bishop, "how do you find me?". And then the Bishop gave his explanation. This is what Umar (r+) plus understood by the kitaab and not the Qur'aan. I just need to put this into perspective that I could not pass. So you see what Umar (r+) refers to is not what you are saying he said. This can go into details but it shall be my last comment until I have completed the other task inshaa allaah.
Peace
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Peace -- what happened to the verses?
, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it.
Peace
Salaam brother Nun
Could you please give me the Arabic for 'verses'? I am asking you because I have faith in your intelligence and sincerity and if we discuss a few things among ourselves it may help me, or you, to see more clearly insha allaah.
Best regards
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Salaam
We reverence God, among many things, as our Teacher, who taught us with the pen. For that reason every teacher, brother AlAmiyr among them, deserve our deepest respect and gratitude, and should be addressed with humbleness. Students have rights certainly but also duties, don't ever forget that >.Peace
Angry Eh? well so are some very frustrated students. This is a forum, not a personal website. However i see there are other posts and another lesson post, so i'm off to read. jedi jedi peace -
If you are suffering from delusions of religious grandiosity needing attention, then what you ask would defeat the purpose. Creating multiple personas such as spacetraveler, ironfist, FearGod and many more are part of it. Also, having an alter ego.
Es - we all need to be open minded which includes being open minded to the fact that there are persons in the world who are surfing from some psychological disorders.
Salaam, thank you for your post. It may seem premature, but I assumed as much from "al-amiyr"'s initial post. In that very post, he mentioned some cosmological model. I had no idea what he was talking about, but it seemed like it was something that few had knowledge of and he was one of those few, so I thought I would leave the more learned to discuss and debate with him. All I knew was that from my very simplistic perception was that I had never heard of this thing which he personally had named. It did not sound right and that I would not be getting involved with what he wanted to discuss.
Over the past few weeks, I have seen him indulging in his self-proclaimed profound "knowledge" which we were going to have dispensed upon us. I also noticed a lot of new people suddenly registering and posting on his threads. It has built upon his initial sense of self-importance I sensed and I have seen the forum becoming extremely chaotic, especially, over the last few days because of it. This should be a productive place for all. Hence, my suggestion to this chap to build his own website. For his own self, if what he wishes to preach is so great, then surely, it deserves its own platform. For the objectives of this forum (and any other), it means that there is no disruption to it for people who want to read about, discuss and debate other matters, as at present, it seems that everyone has become involved in the "al-amiyr" saga. I think it is a perfectly valid suggestion, but, as I suspected, "al-amiyr" did not acknowledge or address it.
I just hope "al-amiyr" will take this suggestion on board.
Salaam.