Scientific error in the Quran?
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?They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn. Say I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. He said As for him who doeth wrong, we shall punish him, and then he will be brought back unto his Lord, Who will punish him with awful punishment! But as for him who believeth and doeth right, good will be his reward, and We shall speak unto him a mild command. Then he followed a road Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom. So (it was). And We knew all concerning him.? S. 1883-91 (Pickthall)
This is a historical narrative, and Allah is doing the narration
• The account is not the words of Dhu?l-Qarneyn, this is made clear by the fact that Dhu?l-Qarneyn is referred to in the 3rd person ? ?he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring.?
• The fact that the narrator is Allah is made clear by phrases such as ?We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road? and ?We knew all concerning him.?
The story has the following errors
• One cannot reach the setting place of the sun or the rising place of the sun. If you are at a place where you see the sunrise you are not at the place where it is rising. Likewise if you are at a place where you see the sunset you are not at the place where it is setting.
• The Sun does not set in a muddy pool.
There is a hadith by Abu Dharr which has Muhammad making similar claims concerning the sunset
• ?Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad?s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him ?Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sun sets?? He answered; ?God and His apostle know better.? Muhammad said ?It sets in a spring of slimy water?? ? al-Zamakhshari, The Kahshaf (3rd Edition, Vol. 2, p. 743, 1987)
Source http//www.answering-islam.org/authors/cornelius/sun_in_muddy_pool.html
Anyone can clarify if the Quran really makes a scientific error at this point?
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Peace,
Your first question On the horizon was a muddy spring, the sunlight reflected off that spring while it was going down. Just as when you go to the beach and see a sunset, the sun is setting in an ocean.
Be mindful of the language used. In any other context that does not involve the veracity of God, such misinterpretation of language would be laughed out of the room. A translator who made such mistakes would quickly be out of a job.he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he (i.e. from HIS PERSPECTIVE) found it setting in a muddy spring.
Notice that it does not say "he followed a road then the sun set in a muddy spring". It is always talking about from his perspective. As for the "setting place of the sun", are you aware that there are (longitude, latitude) coordinates mapped to the surface of the Earth that determines the sunrise & sunsets as a function of time?
Let's say sunset occurs at 6pm in Cairo. You are 5 miles away from Cairo, in latitude. When you walk the 5 mile latitude distance, it will be 6pm. Until it reaches 6pm you have not yet reached the "setting place of the sun" and even if you drive a car or take a space shuttle you cannot travel to this setting place, because the setting place is a 4D coordinate and you have not reached the appropriate time coordinate. The coordinates (X,Y,T) represent a set, in the shape of the solar shadow on Earth. Only at these coordinates do "sunrise" and "sunset" take place.
That is clearly what is being referred to here.
It certainly shows how the arrogant rejectors of truth do not care to exercise their brain when actually coming up with this folly. In trying to one-up the supreme intelligence they demonstrate how atrophied their faculties of genuine critical thought have become.
Then as for the second point he was walking along the road. The sun rose on the horizon then he walked roughly three miles ahead to the point where his sunrise took place. At the end he found such persons as described in the verse.
"For an observer standing on the ground with h = 1.70 metres (5 ft 7 in) (average eye-level height), the horizon is at a distance of 4.7 kilometres (2.9 mi)." - Wikipedia
http//www.wirelessintercomsonline.com/images/HorizonDistance2.jpg -
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Peace,
Your first question On the horizon was a muddy spring, the sunlight reflected off that spring while it was going down. Just as when you go to the beach and see a sunset, the sun is setting in an ocean.
Be mindful of the language used. In any other context that does not involve the veracity of God, such misinterpretation of language would be laughed out of the room. A translator who made such mistakes would quickly be out of a job.Thank you, a very important point. ;D
That's what I first thought, perhaps the ground where he was traveling was composed of muddy water and the language in the verse isn't meant to be taken literally.
?he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he (i.e. from HIS PERSPECTIVE) found it setting in a muddy spring.?
Notice that it does not say "he followed a road then the sun set in a muddy spring". It is always talking about from his perspective.
Let's revisit the whole verse They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn. Say I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout.
I agree that the second part HE FOUND IT setting on... is from Dhul qarnayn's perspective due to the word "found it"
Let's say sunset occurs at 6pm in Cairo. You are 5 miles away from Cairo, in latitude. When you walk the 5 mile latitude distance, it will be 6pm. Until it reaches 6pm you have not yet reached the "setting place of the sun" and even if you drive a car or take a space shuttle you cannot travel to this setting place, because the setting place is a 4D coordinate and you have not reached the appropriate time coordinate. The coordinates (X,Y,T) represent a set, in the shape of the solar shadow on Earth. Only at these coordinates do "sunrise" and "sunset" take place.
That is clearly what is being referred to here.
It certainly shows how the arrogant rejectors of truth do not care to exercise their brain when actually coming up with this folly. In trying to one-up the supreme intelligence they demonstrate how atrophied their faculties of genuine critical thought have become.
Then as for the second point he was walking along the road. The sun rose on the horizon then he walked roughly three miles ahead to the point where his sunrise took place. At the end he found such persons as described in the verse.
"For an observer standing on the ground with h = 1.70 metres (5 ft 7 in) (average eye-level height), the horizon is at a distance of 4.7 kilometres (2.9 mi)." - Wikipedia
Let me rephrase my understanding here.
Suppose I'm in Alexandria, traveling to Cairo and it's 5pm in Alexandria now. Sun is supposed to set at 6 o clock in Cairo. If I set about in the direction of Cairo and can't reach Cairo by 6 pm, for me, the setting place of the sun would be at some point before Cairo?
In short, as I understand it, this "setting place of the sun" refers to - "The place you are at the time the sun sets, dependent on the speed and direction from where you start". Correct?
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Absolutely correct.
You have clarified a little nuance for me actually. I was under the impression that he observed the sunset beginning, then walked to the point on the horizon, where he would have seen the people of the town. In the diagram this represents the point B. Either way, the location of that town was within the vicinity of points A, B and perhaps C; to some extent this is irrelevant to this discussion. We know for sure that the muddy water would have been at point B.
But in the second verse he finds the sun rising on a people. He reached the rising place of the sun, there and then were the people. In this case he was at point A and the town was also at point A, meaning he reached that town precisely as the sun rose.
So let's say from the beginning he starts off at point A, the sun is setting. He observes the sun setting in a muddy water on the horizon, this is point B. He gets to point B and finds the people of that town.
Then he moves on, in the darkness of the night. He reaches another point of type A. At this point the sun is rising, the point B seems irrelevant here. There is a town directly at this point A. The sunrise happens in a matter of minutes and if he is on foot then there is no way he is getting from point A to B as it is 3 miles away either that or Dhul Qarnayn was quite the athletic dude! So we know both from language and sense that the town is right there at point A.
All in all, leaving aside the intrinsic meanings/lessons in these verses we can see this as a clear demonstration of the precise nature of the language of the quran. God gives us that contrast between points A and points B. In the first verse point B is emphasised, in the second, point A is emphasised. It also highlights that God works in 4 dimensional (x,y,z,t) coordinates in the quran and we should expect nothing less from the originator of the universe.
peace
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Absolutely correct.
You have clarified a little nuance for me actually. I was under the impression that he observed the sunset beginning, then walked to the point on the horizon, where he would have seen the people of the town. In the diagram this represents the point B. Either way, the location of that town was within the vicinity of points A, B and perhaps C; to some extent this is irrelevant to this discussion. We know for sure that the muddy water would have been at point B.
But in the second verse he finds the sun rising on a people. He reached the rising place of the sun, there and then were the people. In this case he was at point A and the town was also at point A, meaning he reached that town precisely as the sun rose.
So let's say from the beginning he starts off at point A, the sun is setting. He observes the sun setting in a muddy water on the horizon, this is point B. He gets to point B and finds the people of that town.
Then he moves on, in the darkness of the night. He reaches another point of type A. At this point the sun is rising, the point B seems irrelevant here. There is a town directly at this point A. The sunrise happens in a matter of minutes and if he is on foot then there is no way he is getting from point A to B as it is 3 miles away either that or Dhul Qarnayn was quite the athletic dude! So we know both from language and sense that the town is right there at point A.
All in all, leaving aside the intrinsic meanings/lessons in these verses we can see this as a clear demonstration of the precise nature of the language of the quran. God gives us that contrast between points A and points B. In the first verse point B is emphasised, in the second, point A is emphasised. It also highlights that God works in 4 dimensional (x,y,z,t) coordinates in the quran and we should expect nothing less from the originator of the universe.
peace
THank you very much for your explanation. For some time I believed this to be a scientific error, now I know better. )
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Absolutely correct.
All in all, leaving aside the intrinsic meanings/lessons in these verses we can see this as a clear demonstration of the precise nature of the language of the quran. God gives us that contrast between points A and points B. In the first verse point B is emphasised, in the second, point A is emphasised. It also highlights that God works in 4 dimensional (x,y,z,t) coordinates in the quran and we should expect nothing less from the originator of the universe.
peace
Thank you guys for this explanation
peace