Is Quran's origin Divine?
-
Salaam GODsubmitter,
To someone who does not believe the Qur'an is not divine, it depends on the eye of the beholder. Qur'an is part of a grand Message and for someone who believes it is a narration of God, i.e. hadith. We are free to believe whatever we like, but Qur'an is the only alleged book of God which has made so much sense and seems "authentic". It is the only thing we can rely on except the code if we so choose to believe.
God bless you
-
Shalom Aleikhem,
???
So?
What is your answer here? Is the Qur'an divine?Thanx in advance for the answer.
Peace
I have no reason to believe that the Qur'an is divine. One may even argue and go on to show that it is most certainly not divine. However, to not believe that the Qur'an is divine, I don't have to do that.
You can "believe" that it is divine. But I can't do that without proper justification. That will be a dishonest and irrational position to take.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
I am sorry, that is not a falsifiable thing. First of all, Qur'an may tell you to "bring another chapter like it", but it doesn't tell you who you should bring it to. See the problem? Who will be the judge? A hindu values and respects his/her vedas and will most likely never agree with you that whatever you wrote is better than his/her veda. A christian values his/her Bible
peace,
to humans who seek righteousness in the path of peace in their lives without any struggle. quran talks to humans not to hindus, christians, muslims, etc.
whether it is from vedas, bible, quran, etc. leads you to peace in righteousness without any struggle in your lives, then it is divine.
peace
-
Shalom Aleikhem,
peace,
to humans who seek righteousness in the path of peace in their lives without any struggle. quran talks to humans not to hindus, christians, muslims, etc.
whether it is from vedas, bible, quran, etc. leads you to peace in righteousness without any struggle in your lives, then it is divine.
peace
I am sorry but I wasn't talking about that kind of divinity. I believe that me and the person who asked me the question are talking about the general understanding of divinity. What we were talking about has nothing to do with your personal definition of divinity. Not to mention that your definition of divinity robs the word of any real meaning. I am not here to play word games or twist the meanings of words to rationalize my position on the subject matter. It really does get in the way of any objective investigation.
Peace
-------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
I am sorry but I wasn't talking about that kind of divinity. I believe that me and the person who asked me the question are talking about the general understanding of divinity. What we were talking about has nothing to do with your personal definition of divinity. Not to mention that your definition of divinity robs the word of any real meaning.
Which is?
Divine, divinity is actually the most confusing word.
It's so confusing that people goes on babbling the word without any knowledge of what actually does it mean.And everyone will get either a curse or annoying remark when they answer the question of "Do you believe in divinity of X", where X is something dear or holy to them, with "NO I don't believe in divinity of X".
Thus to avoid the curse or annoying remark, they will just either say "YES" or choose to not answering the question.An example When people are being asked "Do you believe in divinity of Jesus?", most people will just say YES without any certainty of what's the actual meaning of such statement, mostly just to avoid any nuisance or trouble.
To the question of the topic.
The Quran is a book, it was made with raw material of paper and ink. Paper was made from tree and Ink was made from mixing of many materials, but it all mostly consist of carbon, as tree like other living being also made up of carbon.The writing works was initially made / performed by human, there are many legends and version on how the writings came to be, but none of them can be 100% verifiable. In either case it's clear that it was originated from human brain.
Some might pursue further on what is it then that 'inspire' the human brain to produce such writings?
Isn't it possible that it was actually an 'out of this world being' which is 'more advanced than the common 7th century human population in middle east" that dictate 'common 7th century human in middle east' on what to write?
The possibility for that is of course It is very much possible.Given to an indirect evidence of the huge gap of quality / thought process between a book called Quran and a collection of books called Hadith, which the later give us an insight on the state of mind of 'common 8 to 9th century human population in middle east'.
Yet it's an indirect evidence thus its very hard to prove or disprove the 'out of this world origin' claim.
If "Out of this world more advanced being" = "Divine", then yes there's a possibility that the Quran is or was originated from 'divine' sources.
But actually the definition above is not the original meaning of the word "Divine".
The word "Divine" entered english vocabulary from Latin "Deus" which was originated from Indo-European word of "Deiwos".
Which originally means "SHINING" / "ENLIGHTENING".If we took the above definition of the word, then DrGm is not mistaken at all.
To test the "Divinity" of the Quran, just read the content, do you find it enlightening or not?
If yes then it's divine, if not then it's not divine.Salam / Peace
-
Peace all,
Every thing in this creation comes from the god the creator. Can we point to any thing that is not made by the god the creator? Does anyone share this creation with the god? Ultimately, every thing is coming from the god and returning to him in due time.
So for me this question of "is the quran's origin Divine?" is ambiguous, because we need to define the criteria for what is considered Divine and what is not.
Can we give a list of "Divine things" or "not-Divine things"?
All the creation is divine, as it has originated from the god the creator.
Or
No thing in the creation is divine, because only the god the creator is divine.
peace
-
Peace all,
Every thing in this creation comes from the god the creator. Can we point to any thing that is not made by the god the creator? Does anyone share this creation with the god? Ultimately, every thing is coming from the god and returning to him in due time.
So for me this question of "is the quran's origin Divine?" is ambiguous, because we need to define the criteria for what is considered Divine and what is not.
Can we give a list of "Divine things" or "not-Divine things"?
All the creation is divine, as it has originated from the god the creator.
Or
No thing in the creation is divine, because only the god the creator is divine.
peace
Very good point! bravo bravo
Everything originated from the Creator, good and evil, right and wrong and anything in between.
@Forum Administrator you need to change the name of this section! "Quranic Divinity" is ambiguous..
-
Shalom Aleikhem,
Which is?
Divine, divinity is actually the most confusing word.
It's so confusing that people goes on babbling the word without any knowledge of what actually does it mean.And everyone will get either a curse or annoying remark when they answer the question of "Do you believe in divinity of X", where X is something dear or holy to them, with "NO I don't believe in divinity of X".
Thus to avoid the curse or annoying remark, they will just either say "YES" or choose to not answering the question.An example When people are being asked "Do you believe in divinity of Jesus?", most people will just say YES without any certainty of what's the actual meaning of such statement, mostly just to avoid any nuisance or trouble.
To the question of the topic.
The Quran is a book, it was made with raw material of paper and ink. Paper was made from tree and Ink was made from mixing of many materials, but it all mostly consist of carbon, as tree like other living being also made up of carbon.The writing works was initially made / performed by human, there are many legends and version on how the writings came to be, but none of them can be 100% verifiable. In either case it's clear that it was originated from human brain.
Some might pursue further on what is it then that 'inspire' the human brain to produce such writings?
Isn't it possible that it was actually an 'out of this world being' which is 'more advanced than the common 7th century human population in middle east" that dictate 'common 7th century human in middle east' on what to write?
The possibility for that is of course It is very much possible.Given to an indirect evidence of the huge gap of quality / thought process between a book called Quran and a collection of books called Hadith, which the later give us an insight on the state of mind of 'common 8 to 9th century human population in middle east'.
Yet it's an indirect evidence thus its very hard to prove or disprove the 'out of this world origin' claim.
If "Out of this world more advanced being" = "Divine", then yes there's a possibility that the Quran is or was originated from 'divine' sources.
But actually the definition above is not the original meaning of the word "Divine".
The word "Divine" entered english vocabulary from Latin "Deus" which was originated from Indo-European word of "Deiwos".
Which originally means "SHINING" / "ENLIGHTENING".If we took the above definition of the word, then DrGm is not mistaken at all.
To test the "Divinity" of the Quran, just read the content, do you find it enlightening or not?
If yes then it's divine, if not then it's not divine.Salam / Peace
http//static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124813/2376555-meme_are_you_kidding_me.png
You have no idea what you are talking about. I believe you are mistaken because you didn't check out the earlier posts where I was addressing something specific. Let me quote here to explain
I SAID
Shalom Aleikhem,
I am sorry, that is not a falsifiable thing. First of all, Qur'an may tell you to "bring another chapter like it", but it doesn't tell you who you should bring it to. See the problem? Who will be the judge? A hindu values and respects his/her vedas and will most likely never agree with you that whatever you wrote is better than his/her veda. A christian values his/her Bible and will not agree that your writings are better than his/her Bible or even the same for that matter. In the same sense, it makes no sense to ask someone to "bring a chapter/verse like it". No matter how many chapters I bring, muslims can always get away saying that "I don't find it good enough". This is because Qur'an provides no objective means of falsification.
Having said that, there is also a logical flaw in what you said about divinity. There is no direct link between writing a similar chapter like Qur'an and divinity. To claim that "God" wrote that book, you have to demonstrate that He did write that book. You can not shift the burden of proof on others by asking them to write something similar, which to begin with doesn't prove or disprove divinity in any shape or form.
Upon reading what I said, GodSubmitted asked me
???
So?
What is your answer here? Is the Qur'an divine?Thanx in advance for the answer.
Peace
To which I responded saying
Shalom Aleikhem,
I have no reason to believe that the Qur'an is divine. One may even argue and go on to show that it is most certainly not divine. However, to not believe that the Qur'an is divine, I don't have to do that.
You can "believe" that it is divine. But I can't do that without proper justification. That will be a dishonest and irrational position to take.
So, in context, GodSubmitter asked me something very specific. I believe that GodSubmitter wanted me to stop beating around the bush and tell him if I believe that the Qur'an has supernatural origin or not (example A God being its author). Given that now you know the context, do you see why the possible billion meanings of divinity means nothing in the context of our specific discussion? That is why I corrected DrGm explaining how we were not talking about other meanings of the word but addressing something specific. I hope this helps you see where you went wrong.
Peace
---------- Student of Allah -
Having said that, there is also a logical flaw in what you said about divinity. There is no direct link between writing a similar chapter like Qur'an and divinity. To claim that "God" wrote that book, you have to demonstrate that He did write that book. You can not shift the burden of proof on others by asking them to write something similar, which to begin with doesn't prove or disprove divinity in any shape or form.
I can agree with you.
Salaam
-
Shalom Aleikhem,
http//static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124813/2376555-meme_are_you_kidding_me.png
You have no idea what you are talking about. I believe you are mistaken because you didn't check out the earlier posts where I was addressing something specific. Let me quote here to explain
I SAID
Upon reading what I said, GodSubmitted asked me
To which I responded saying
So, in context, GodSubmitter asked me something very specific. I believe that GodSubmitter wanted me to stop beating around the bush and tell him if I believe that the Qur'an has supernatural origin or not (example A God being its author). Given that now you know the context, do you see why the possible billion meanings of divinity means nothing in the context of our specific discussion? That is why I corrected DrGm explaining how we were not talking about other meanings of the word but addressing something specific. I hope this helps you see where you went wrong.
Peace
---------- Student of AllahThanx