Is Hijra from Yemen to Arabian side of Persian Gulf?
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As far as I know there is not a single name of a city or country in The Quran.
interesting.
not easy to proove the contrary. i have to verify.
If so, there is no reason House of Mickey in disneyland cannot pretend to be a Kaaba for next centuries. Many are already doing pilgrimnage there.Peace
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Salaam
Of course median thamud misr etc are places or regions.. thats way Qariat--mean villages or small locations where Messengers been sent.. MEKKAH acording to a sunni book introduction to islam in my language says Makkah mean erradicate/exterminate.
and much thanks for info Noshirk.still didnt had the time i wish to read 2book of pazuzu and to investigate some stuff deeper..
just some off topic points if youread suratu alhijr you get picture of the 2 towns/locations of lot..and not sodoma and gomorrah..but Al ayka and al hijr..
medinah of course is not actual medina because theres many palces in quran wherr medina is simple translated s city.. and this is not a new..
but because history is all revolved people simple dont bealive in Quran Narrative,places,facts,etc.. and tend to say its just a story .. i dont think so, Allah make proves/signs for one who meditates /ponder and search trought earth the meanings and truth hiden.. in point of view in sands of yemen and souroundings..Salaam to all pr
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Salaam All
Let's continue.
Let's agree on one point God choose his words carefully. There is no coincidence or chance.Since Yathrib has never been a town and since Muhammad never put his feets in what we call nowadays Medine and Mecca, it is interesting to begin research for what mean the word Medine.
First, some quranics Facts
Muhammad returned to his natal land (48-12).
Muhammad had the task to preach in Ommou el Qura and qura in the nearby (6-92,42-7).
Qura is same root as maqar (root qarra) which mean fixation somewhere. Qura is meaning of town
in nowaday arabic, Qura means villages and medina means town (big village). Is that Meaning wanted by God ?
What does mean Ommo el Qura ? Why not use Medina Word ?
In verse 59-14, Quran is speaking about Qura Fortified ??? . Is that logical ? Why not use medina word ?
34-18 is speaking about knwn and visible Qura. Why not use Medina word ?
59-7 is speaking about what is obtained from Qura people. Why Medina word is anot usedplease note that there is strange similiraty between words Quran, Qura, Quroon (word meaning group of people in quran) . Don't know if that mean something.
Preaching in Ommou el Qura is a to do task for many anbiya (28-59).
God choose Messengers only from People of Qura (12-109).
Muhammad was not from the two main Qura (43-31).
Abraham preached in a crowded place (meaning of word Bacca).Now, there is a question Why Quran never use the plural form of word Medina wich is Moudon ?
Is it possible that word Medina has another meaning that "big village" ?The question is very interesting since two similar word as used in Quran Medina and the famous Madian (town of Chuaib and where Moses refugiate).
if medina is not a generic word for big village, is it possible that medina is a name for precise place. Are Medina and Madian the two "special" Qura that 43-31 is speaking of ?Let see now dictionnay
( ة
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.Strange no ? We are told here that for the root Mdn, word Medina is the only use.
But, arabic speakers will note Medina can be dervated from the very know word deen
let see then there
( ة.
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.here we learn that root deen mean to be linked and humilty/humiliation
we learn also that "people deen" mean obedient and directed people (see use of word madina in verses 37-53 and 56-86)
we learn also that medina means a place where obedience to "orders" occurs.So root Deen seems to be the origina root for word medina
Madian seem to be also from the same root. Hope to get a better understanding of that further.it is interesting to note also that the word "and around" is used for "Ommou el qura and around" and "Medina and around" (9-101 and 9-120)
Where are the two qura Medina and Madian ? That is the question.
Special note
Religion is a very bad traduction for word deen. Religion is word very linked to a set of rituals. I think that religion is a kind of pagan understanding for word deen.
It is the same kind of bad traduction that occurs for word Allah. GOD is a word also very linked to whorshippness and rituals. Allah does'nt mean GOD for me.
LA (no) ILAHA (where to go) ILLA (only but) ALLAH (the no where else we can go).
Allah is not competing with other Gods. He is apart. He is Not the Akbar God (greatest God). He is simply the no where else to whom we can returnPeace
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Salaam noshirk,
I know words do not translate well into English, but please do not ridicule the words religion or God because it is not Arabic.
God is a word for God.
Allah is what He is because the Al before Lah, the determiner. English has no such determiner for general speech, but the capital letter can refer to the real deity.
God's religion is the right one and of course it is more dull with English this way, but it does not mean you cannot use English to talk true religion.
Hope you get me right.
God bless you further
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Salaam noshirk,
I know words do not translate well into English, but please do not ridicule the words religion or God because it is not Arabic.
God is a word for God.
Allah is what He is because the Al before Lah, the determiner. English has no such determiner for general speech, but the capital letter can refer to the real deity.
God's religion is the right one and of course it is more dull with English this way, but it does not mean you cannot use English to talk true religion.
Hope you get me right.
God bless you further
Sorry but my aim was not to ridicule that words. I still use word God and religion to be understood.
However, we have not to forgot that word God is used for Goddess of fertility and word Religion for idolatric faith and belief.These two words transmits meaning very different to the meaning of Allah and Deen.
Nowhere you can find that religion is the search of the true path towards the true truth.
Word God doesn't transmit the idea that we will return to him and nowhere else.Now, if my aim is not to ridicule that words, i really don't mind of collateral damage when searching for truth. Sacrality and "emotion hurting" is so often opposed to arguments when a truth seeker is doing his job
Peace
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Dear noshirk.
While I admire your enthusiasm regarding the subject matter, I do not agree with your rendering of what are clearly proper nouns in the Quran. It is the characteristic of the Arabic language that ALL words, whether they are common or proper nouns, ultimately have inherent, built-in meanings.
Consider this example The word al-qahira is derived from the root ?q-h-r?, which means ?to defeat/humiliate/conquer/stand firm in the face of something (as in the context of war or armies)?.
Now, if you come across a passage in an Arabic text stating that ?Zayd is planning a trip to al-Qahira next week-end?, would you interpret it as such, perhaps ?Zayd is planning a trip to the defeater/conqueror/humiliator city, next week-end?, just because you found the meaning of the word ?q-h-r? in a lexicon?
Claiming that the Quran does not mention any proper nouns whatsoever is taking it a bit too far. The events surrounding Muhammad (P) did not take place in an anonymous vacuum.
The Quran does NOT say ?Allah had granted you victory at the full moon, while you had been the lesser, so revere Allah that you may be thankful?.
It says {Allah had granted you victory at Badr, while you had been the lesser, so revere Allah that you may be thankful}?. The word "Badr" is the proper noun of a place. Allah, who does not shy away from giving the example of a fly, would certainly not shy away from mentioning proper nouns. The events surrounding Muhammad (P) happened in a known geographic domain, in a volcanic, pastoral country that Allah described as being blessed to all people. It is a country of grazing fields, abundant rivers, pomegranate trees, fig trees, olive trees, grape orchards, honey production, and green mountains (al-tur) with a desert of great sand dunes bordering it.
I have gathered enough evidence that this is neither Palestine nor the Hijaz.
no idea for median and medina?
The word ?al-madina? (with a small ?m?) is NOT a proper noun. It simply means ?the urban center?. I think you should have found that one obvious by now. And I don?t care what the Wahhabis or their ancestors, the tribes of Hijaz, the have been propagating for centuries. Yathrib, Badr, Makkah, Hunayn, Midian, and Misr are the proper names of TOWNS. And just because these words happen to have meanings (as all Arabic words inherently do), it does not change the fact that they are names of places.
As for Midian (with a capital ?M?), according to the Quran, is not far at all from Misr. In the story of Moses (P), the Quran tells us he fled Misr and went towards Midian. However, the Arabic text includes a word that was overlooked in the FM translation. This word is ?tilqa?a? which appears in i, and is used to indicate places that are not very far from each other. Based on the circumstances of time and place, Midyan and Misr could not have been more that 100 KM apart, or the Quran would not have used that word to describe Mose?s trip.
Allah?s messenger, Shu?ayb (P) was sent to Midian. This is the Jethro of the Old Testament? Notice the similarity between "Jethro"and Yathrib? Coincidence? The OT also tells us that Moses (P) spoke to the Lord on Mount Horeb, which was not far from Uzal, and the Voice of Jehovah echoed all throughout the lands of Teman (Teyman). By coincidence, Jabal al-Nabi Shu?ayb and Jabal Hareeb are both in Yemen, and not far from Sana?a, whose name in the so-called ?Jahiliyya? era was Azal. If you stand on top of Jabal Shu?ayb, which is the tallest peak in all of Arabia, you will see to the east of you, the sand dunes of the Ahqaf Desert in the southern quadrant of the Rub-al-Khali desert.
Nowhere else on this planet will you find such names.
What is the "land of Teman"? Look up "Temanim Jews" and see where that leads you.
Look up and and see where the links lead you.
The Old testament speaks of a land flowing with milk and honey that was promised to Abraham?s progeny. It speaks of saffron, myrrh and frankinsense trees. Palestine did not produce one drop of honey during the Biblical times, nor does it have saffron, Myrrh, or frankinsense trees.
This insane deception will be exposed very soon. I promise you.
Peace...
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Salaam brother Pazuzu,
Thank you for your work, gave me further ideas to meditate upon.
God bless you
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Salaam bro
Thank you very much brother pazuzu.Yathrib, Badr, Makkah, Hunayn, Midian, and Misr are the proper names of TOWNS. And just because these words happen to have meanings (as all Arabic words inherently do), it does not change the fact that they are names of places.
Without proofs, i have the right to consider such a claim as belief.
I will try to respond later. I have to make some research before and i am a little busy these days.
i a m not sure what names are proper noun of towns and what names are not propers nouns of towns.Peace
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Salaam All
After some research, i get the conclusion that i cannot prove that medina is not a word that mean town in general in quran.
However, i defy whoever to proove that medina, in quran, is not a name of one town and only one town.so i will continue with that hypothesis
all people here believe that median is name of one town and only one town.
i ealy post i noticed that medina is same root as deen (traduced generally bu word religion) .
According to dictionnary, medina is the place where people obey to something (it can be both to words of god or to a political chief)The form median can point, from my point of view, to a meaning of town containing temple. (for example, in arabic, khobz mean breead and makhbaz a bakery)
so, from my arabic root understanding, Medina would be the political capital and Median the religious capital.
Let see now uses in quran
MEDINA occurences
Medina is town where there is people around (9-101; 9-120)
A man coming from the fathest part of medina ask to follow messengers (36-20).People of cave where near medina (18-19)
sourate the cave also. Medina is the town where Mussa built wall to protect treasure of two orphans (18-82)Nabi Lot where at medina 15-67
Hypocrtes coming from medina (muhammad era) 33-60 and 63-8
Moses and Firaoun are at medina (28-18;28-20;28-15;20-40; 7-123)
Medina is where people rejected prophet salih 27-48
Medina is where prophet Youssef was jailed 12-30 (so it is also misr)MEDIAN occurences
Median is where chuaib preached (7-85;29-36;11-84)
Median is where Moses take refuge after killing a man (28-23; 28-45?)
28-45 is speaking about probably Moses preaching there.Ashab (ِ median is used in 9-70 and 22-44. Ashab of median is not exactly same meaning as people of median. Google traduction give for Ashab meaning of Owners/holders/employers.
interesting to compare 22-43 and 22-44. People of Abraham, people of Lot but Ashab Median.
The same distinction is found in 9-70. it is only in median where we have word AshabMedian is as far as thamud (11-95).
That are all occurences i found .
It is intersting to note that thamud is were salih was (7-73;11-6. Thamud is often appering along with aad (9-70;14-9;22-42;25-38;29-38;40-31;41-13;69-4). In 38-13, thamud is appearing with people of LOT.
it seems like medina is where was thamud and aad and people of lotPutting all together, i can't decide anything.
i cannot forget however the mention of two main cities from wich Muhammad was not one of the greatness 3-31
i cannot decide even wich of medina or median are ommu el qura.
Similarity of words MEDINA and MEDIAN is too strong for me. They are both from root DEEN.
I cannot proove it but i am quite convinced that they are two specific towns of great DEEN importance.
i am in trouble because i see something important is hidden behind these two words.i am happy to note that issa never associated to medina or median.
Peace
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Salaam bros/sis
YEs nice thread, in tousands of threads here, this one is one of top 10 to follow regularly, even if im not doing it right now as a lack of time , but soon as God wil(and my will also,of course), ill be back to debate/add something to this topic, i never tought madina and madian in this way but need to study deeper.i take mirjamnur words..interesting post
Salaam and keep going..not posting this in vain anyway, a good search is always a good step to understendment.. peace
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Salaam All
After some research, i get the conclusion that i cannot prove that medina is not a word that mean town in general in quran.
However, i defy whoever to proove that medina, in quran, is not a name of one town and only one town.so i will continue with that hypothesis
all people here believe that median is name of one town and only one town.
i ealy post i noticed that medina is same root as deen (traduced generally bu word religion) .
According to dictionnary, medina is the place where people obey to something (it can be both to words of god or to a political chief)The form median can point, from my point of view, to a meaning of town containing temple. (for example, in arabic, khobz mean breead and makhbaz a bakery)
so, from my arabic root understanding, Medina would be the political capital and Median the religious capital.
Let see now uses in quran
MEDINA occurences
Medina is town where there is people around (9-101; 9-120)
A man coming from the fathest part of medina ask to follow messengers (36-20).People of cave where near medina (18-19)
sourate the cave also. Medina is the town where Mussa built wall to protect treasure of two orphans (18-82)Nabi Lot where at medina 15-67
Hypocrtes coming from medina (muhammad era) 33-60 and 63-8
Moses and Firaoun are at medina (28-18;28-20;28-15;20-40; 7-123)
Medina is where people rejected prophet salih 27-48
Medina is where prophet Youssef was jailed 12-30 (so it is also misr)MEDIAN occurences
Median is where chuaib preached (7-85;29-36;11-84)
Median is where Moses take refuge after killing a man (28-23; 28-45?)
28-45 is speaking about probably Moses preaching there.Ashab (ِ median is used in 9-70 and 22-44. Ashab of median is not exactly same meaning as people of median. Google traduction give for Ashab meaning of Owners/holders/employers.
interesting to compare 22-43 and 22-44. People of Abraham, people of Lot but Ashab Median.
The same distinction is found in 9-70. it is only in median where we have word AshabMedian is as far as thamud (11-95).
That are all occurences i found .
It is intersting to note that thamud is were salih was (7-73;11-6. Thamud is often appering along with aad (9-70;14-9;22-42;25-38;29-38;40-31;41-13;69-4). In 38-13, thamud is appearing with people of LOT.
it seems like medina is where was thamud and aad and people of lotPutting all together, i can't decide anything.
i cannot forget however the mention of two main cities from wich Muhammad was not one of the greatness 3-31
i cannot decide even wich of medina or median are ommu el qura.
Similarity of words MEDINA and MEDIAN is too strong for me. They are both from root DEEN.
I cannot proove it but i am quite convinced that they are two specific towns of great DEEN importance.
i am in trouble because i see something important is hidden behind these two words.i am happy to note that issa never associated to medina or median.
Peace
The Virgin christian patron of Madrid is "la Almudena". I have always wondered about the etimology and I had also thought of "deen". The most official version is that it comes from al mudayna, that is the diminutive of madina, that should be little city... Curiously enough the male patron of Madrid was a Muslim peasant labourer, Idriss, christianised into Isidro, who officially is taken to be a Christian, although history seems to point the other way, that he was a Muslim, his wife also a saint in the church.
I suppose that even when the satanic spirit of divisiveness is at work human unity works underground, sometimes hiding its messages within words.
Salaam
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Salaam All
i thank posters for their reactions
I hardly believe that History of islam from Adam until Muhammad as described in Quran is a "one story". History of prophets would just be different episodes in a same serie. That story talks about human attitude towards the teaching of their creator who they reject as unique Rabb/teacher.
it is just a strong feeling for now.
For me, Quran would be a greater teachning if it relates a story with quite same people and different generations of quite same people.
We don't know what happened to other prophets and where they were (quran speaks about prophets he didn't mentionned), but those mentionned in quran are probably part of a same and coherent story.if we see ocurrences of medina and median as city names, we see that all quranic prophets are regionally linked together.
the "Ommou al qura" should a be medina if medina mean a big town.
It seems that there is many ommu el qura ((28-59).
But it seems for me that quran is speaking about what happened around only one of them.
that's story would be then the one he selected/choosed as main teachning for the human kind.933 He is the One who has sent His messenger with the guidance and the Deen of truth, so that it will expose all other Deens , even if the polytheists hate it.
4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the Deen of truth, so that it would expose all other Deens . And God is enough as a witness.
619 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the Deen of truth, so that it will expose all other Deens , even if the polytheists hate it.Quite three times the same verse. God is insisting on that.
Destiny of quran is probably much bigger than it is now.Peace