Is Hijra from Yemen to Arabian side of Persian Gulf?
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Salaam thank you for the answer borhter i will read about gog and magog , i read something brother pazuzu post about babil being on yemen..(not sure if was him) anyway i also will read 2 ebook of brother pazuzu wich i still dindt had the time,maybe today O0
well in begining when i start to read Quran withouth hadith or anything.. i got the ideia of this events being on yemen and souroundings by the footnots of the 1st Quran i get ..after having 2version from meka i just compiled footnotes and become cristal clear.. but mekah and medinah as i mentioned still get me confused but in shaa Allah with time we will find..We should open a thread about fauna and flora (animals and vegetals) etc in Quran and cheek origins.. frankincense,dates,camels, are surly from arabia and never in persia or jerusalem..
what i get from hadith is that is a compilation of hindu with zaroastrian and prearabic rituals a good mix of it... but in between you got an hadith that says that islam will wein when peace will reast between asir and hadramouth, and other saying that someone ask prophet where faith comes and he pointed to Yemen..(later i try find some more hadith on yemen subjects)
if i meet aladin i will wish just to make arqueology possible from medinah to eden and from asir to hadramouth.. chek everyhing... eat ) under the sands many misteries lay.. and they just see arqueology suspicious..imagine the turns it will give to world in general..so they just stay very quiet.. voodoo tempt
Thanks picture is like stand alone in light even if need to cross a desert to see tranquility..against windstorms,thunder,thirst,darkness,fear,anger,hate,etc not just in material action but spiritual quoting. fftopic laugh
SAlaam/PEACE/PAIX/SHALOM/PAZ
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Salaam All
i have to add two remarks.
First one comes from the second E-Book of brother Pazuzu where he spoke about the qamatians i mentionned in the first post of this thread.
in page 61 , brother Pazuzu spokes about Qaramita.
he said that they were a YEMENI Clan who were among the first who embrace islam.If it is true, wa have a proof that people who were among the first to embrace islam, from Yemen (when Amana of God is given ?) migrated to region of old Bahrein whose capital was Hajar. We have also evidence that those people didn(t recognize Hijaz.
The second interesting remark concern the hypothesis that Nassara are the Zoroasters persians.
It is obvious that if Jesus is not Issa then Nassara cannot be whatever sect linked to jesus. Nassara are not christaions, not nestorians, not ...From the geopgraphic point of view, Islam as preached by Muhammad rose between the roman empire at the west at persian ampire at the east.
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day....
This verse can then be usderstood as don't follow persians/nassara and jews/romans. The same meaning of course exist in other verses speaking about nassara and yahood.
but verse 2-113 is the more interesting.
2113 And the Jews say "The Nassara have no basis," and the Nassara says "The Jews have no basis," while they are both reciting the Book! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection.We know that Christians and jews share at least the old testament. 2-113 is saying quite that Nassara and Jews share nothing.
of course, we know that Issa never hold "gospel" who pretend to be injeel in his Hand.for me, it is now obvious that Nassara are persians and that all christians even the new pope are Yahood.
Peace
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Thanks for hinting me in that direction, I am going to investigate in Iran and Persepolis, enshallah.
God bless you
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Salaam All
4824 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior (Batni) of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
in arabic, Jehenem (hell) is obtained by addition of word Jenna and two letters Ha and Mim
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i traduct meaning of ha and mim is dissolution.
so Jehennem can be understood and the hole where souls are dissolved. Dictionnary says also( ب
.I traduct Jehennem =profound depth.
Now, we know all what mean Rahm. It is the womb.
Original womb for our souls is of course Jenna.
Rahman is the one who expels from Rahm and Rahim is the forgiver who accept again the expelled souls in the rahm.Opposite of Original Womb would be an empty venter. a hole aspiring all rejectors.
in arabic, Mekka means( ب
.I traduct Makaka means aspire something until it ends.
So BATNI mekkata can means the aspiring womb, wich means hells.
Now, we can have a new traduction for 48-24
4824 And He is the One who separate your hands from their hands and their hands for your hands while you were in the aspiring womb after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.God prevented readers of Quran from following others arbabs (educators) than him.
it is a simple remind for followers of persians story tellers.Good night for aspired people in pilgrimnages and prayers towards batni mekkata.
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salaam all
after the BATNI precedding Mecca wich mean aspire let see meaning of Bacca
so Bacca can means a crowded place and perhaps is not a name of a city.
so Abraham would have built the first temple in a crowded place and there is no Bacca on a map.it is interesting to compare with verses 6-92,42-7 who says that Muhammad had to tansmit the message to the "mother" of villages.
Please note that after Hijra, Muhammad returned to the region from where he was expulsed and where there was his family (48-12).
in that region, it is obvious that there was two important cities (43-31)Peace
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Salaam
I am asking help for Yathrib
Applying the arabic dictionnary methodology we find this
( ب
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.Tharb=Tallow on the intestines and innards (ggogle traduction)
and this. .
Here we are told that Nabi changed name of yathrib because it was "a blaming and shaming." name ???
How it is possible that people of such a town accepted such a name before islam ?
Now, if Yathrib is also not a name of a town
3313 And a group of them said ?O people of Yathrib (greasiness/flab of Hell), there is no station for you, so come back.? And a small party of them sought permission from the prophet, saying ?Our homes are exposed,? while they were not exposed. They just wanted to flee.it can fit but i don't know what to think. It solves the problem of why only people of Yathrib "want to flee" while 3312 is speaking about hypocrites in general ???
is it possible that no city called Yathrib never existed ?
Is it possible that neither Bacca nor Mekka nor Yathrib are cities names ?
I tried to read about this subject. Really i cannot get a conclusion.Something is telling me that quite nothing happened in hijaz before Abbasides.
when i try follow sources, i always find a member of the team of persian storytellers behind.
Greasiness of Yathrib annoys me.Peace
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Salaam
is it possible that no city called Yathrib never existed ?
Is it possible that neither Bacca nor Mekka nor Yathrib are cities names ?
I tried to read about this subject. Really i cannot get a conclusion.Something is telling me that quite nothing happened in hijaz before Abbasides.
when i try follow sources, i always find a member of the team of persian storytellers behind.
Greasiness of Yathrib annoys me.Peace
Salaam,
As far as I know there is not a single name of a city or country in The Quran.
Salaam,
Bender -
As far as I know there is not a single name of a city or country in The Quran.
interesting.
not easy to proove the contrary. i have to verify.
If so, there is no reason House of Mickey in disneyland cannot pretend to be a Kaaba for next centuries. Many are already doing pilgrimnage there.Peace
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Salaam
Of course median thamud misr etc are places or regions.. thats way Qariat--mean villages or small locations where Messengers been sent.. MEKKAH acording to a sunni book introduction to islam in my language says Makkah mean erradicate/exterminate.
and much thanks for info Noshirk.still didnt had the time i wish to read 2book of pazuzu and to investigate some stuff deeper..
just some off topic points if youread suratu alhijr you get picture of the 2 towns/locations of lot..and not sodoma and gomorrah..but Al ayka and al hijr..
medinah of course is not actual medina because theres many palces in quran wherr medina is simple translated s city.. and this is not a new..
but because history is all revolved people simple dont bealive in Quran Narrative,places,facts,etc.. and tend to say its just a story .. i dont think so, Allah make proves/signs for one who meditates /ponder and search trought earth the meanings and truth hiden.. in point of view in sands of yemen and souroundings..Salaam to all pr
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Salaam All
Let's continue.
Let's agree on one point God choose his words carefully. There is no coincidence or chance.Since Yathrib has never been a town and since Muhammad never put his feets in what we call nowadays Medine and Mecca, it is interesting to begin research for what mean the word Medine.
First, some quranics Facts
Muhammad returned to his natal land (48-12).
Muhammad had the task to preach in Ommou el Qura and qura in the nearby (6-92,42-7).
Qura is same root as maqar (root qarra) which mean fixation somewhere. Qura is meaning of town
in nowaday arabic, Qura means villages and medina means town (big village). Is that Meaning wanted by God ?
What does mean Ommo el Qura ? Why not use Medina Word ?
In verse 59-14, Quran is speaking about Qura Fortified ??? . Is that logical ? Why not use medina word ?
34-18 is speaking about knwn and visible Qura. Why not use Medina word ?
59-7 is speaking about what is obtained from Qura people. Why Medina word is anot usedplease note that there is strange similiraty between words Quran, Qura, Quroon (word meaning group of people in quran) . Don't know if that mean something.
Preaching in Ommou el Qura is a to do task for many anbiya (28-59).
God choose Messengers only from People of Qura (12-109).
Muhammad was not from the two main Qura (43-31).
Abraham preached in a crowded place (meaning of word Bacca).Now, there is a question Why Quran never use the plural form of word Medina wich is Moudon ?
Is it possible that word Medina has another meaning that "big village" ?The question is very interesting since two similar word as used in Quran Medina and the famous Madian (town of Chuaib and where Moses refugiate).
if medina is not a generic word for big village, is it possible that medina is a name for precise place. Are Medina and Madian the two "special" Qura that 43-31 is speaking of ?Let see now dictionnay
( ة
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.Strange no ? We are told here that for the root Mdn, word Medina is the only use.
But, arabic speakers will note Medina can be dervated from the very know word deen
let see then there
( ة.
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.here we learn that root deen mean to be linked and humilty/humiliation
we learn also that "people deen" mean obedient and directed people (see use of word madina in verses 37-53 and 56-86)
we learn also that medina means a place where obedience to "orders" occurs.So root Deen seems to be the origina root for word medina
Madian seem to be also from the same root. Hope to get a better understanding of that further.it is interesting to note also that the word "and around" is used for "Ommou el qura and around" and "Medina and around" (9-101 and 9-120)
Where are the two qura Medina and Madian ? That is the question.
Special note
Religion is a very bad traduction for word deen. Religion is word very linked to a set of rituals. I think that religion is a kind of pagan understanding for word deen.
It is the same kind of bad traduction that occurs for word Allah. GOD is a word also very linked to whorshippness and rituals. Allah does'nt mean GOD for me.
LA (no) ILAHA (where to go) ILLA (only but) ALLAH (the no where else we can go).
Allah is not competing with other Gods. He is apart. He is Not the Akbar God (greatest God). He is simply the no where else to whom we can returnPeace
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Salaam noshirk,
I know words do not translate well into English, but please do not ridicule the words religion or God because it is not Arabic.
God is a word for God.
Allah is what He is because the Al before Lah, the determiner. English has no such determiner for general speech, but the capital letter can refer to the real deity.
God's religion is the right one and of course it is more dull with English this way, but it does not mean you cannot use English to talk true religion.
Hope you get me right.
God bless you further
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Salaam noshirk,
I know words do not translate well into English, but please do not ridicule the words religion or God because it is not Arabic.
God is a word for God.
Allah is what He is because the Al before Lah, the determiner. English has no such determiner for general speech, but the capital letter can refer to the real deity.
God's religion is the right one and of course it is more dull with English this way, but it does not mean you cannot use English to talk true religion.
Hope you get me right.
God bless you further
Sorry but my aim was not to ridicule that words. I still use word God and religion to be understood.
However, we have not to forgot that word God is used for Goddess of fertility and word Religion for idolatric faith and belief.These two words transmits meaning very different to the meaning of Allah and Deen.
Nowhere you can find that religion is the search of the true path towards the true truth.
Word God doesn't transmit the idea that we will return to him and nowhere else.Now, if my aim is not to ridicule that words, i really don't mind of collateral damage when searching for truth. Sacrality and "emotion hurting" is so often opposed to arguments when a truth seeker is doing his job
Peace
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Dear noshirk.
While I admire your enthusiasm regarding the subject matter, I do not agree with your rendering of what are clearly proper nouns in the Quran. It is the characteristic of the Arabic language that ALL words, whether they are common or proper nouns, ultimately have inherent, built-in meanings.
Consider this example The word al-qahira is derived from the root ?q-h-r?, which means ?to defeat/humiliate/conquer/stand firm in the face of something (as in the context of war or armies)?.
Now, if you come across a passage in an Arabic text stating that ?Zayd is planning a trip to al-Qahira next week-end?, would you interpret it as such, perhaps ?Zayd is planning a trip to the defeater/conqueror/humiliator city, next week-end?, just because you found the meaning of the word ?q-h-r? in a lexicon?
Claiming that the Quran does not mention any proper nouns whatsoever is taking it a bit too far. The events surrounding Muhammad (P) did not take place in an anonymous vacuum.
The Quran does NOT say ?Allah had granted you victory at the full moon, while you had been the lesser, so revere Allah that you may be thankful?.
It says {Allah had granted you victory at Badr, while you had been the lesser, so revere Allah that you may be thankful}?. The word "Badr" is the proper noun of a place. Allah, who does not shy away from giving the example of a fly, would certainly not shy away from mentioning proper nouns. The events surrounding Muhammad (P) happened in a known geographic domain, in a volcanic, pastoral country that Allah described as being blessed to all people. It is a country of grazing fields, abundant rivers, pomegranate trees, fig trees, olive trees, grape orchards, honey production, and green mountains (al-tur) with a desert of great sand dunes bordering it.
I have gathered enough evidence that this is neither Palestine nor the Hijaz.
no idea for median and medina?
The word ?al-madina? (with a small ?m?) is NOT a proper noun. It simply means ?the urban center?. I think you should have found that one obvious by now. And I don?t care what the Wahhabis or their ancestors, the tribes of Hijaz, the have been propagating for centuries. Yathrib, Badr, Makkah, Hunayn, Midian, and Misr are the proper names of TOWNS. And just because these words happen to have meanings (as all Arabic words inherently do), it does not change the fact that they are names of places.
As for Midian (with a capital ?M?), according to the Quran, is not far at all from Misr. In the story of Moses (P), the Quran tells us he fled Misr and went towards Midian. However, the Arabic text includes a word that was overlooked in the FM translation. This word is ?tilqa?a? which appears in i, and is used to indicate places that are not very far from each other. Based on the circumstances of time and place, Midyan and Misr could not have been more that 100 KM apart, or the Quran would not have used that word to describe Mose?s trip.
Allah?s messenger, Shu?ayb (P) was sent to Midian. This is the Jethro of the Old Testament? Notice the similarity between "Jethro"and Yathrib? Coincidence? The OT also tells us that Moses (P) spoke to the Lord on Mount Horeb, which was not far from Uzal, and the Voice of Jehovah echoed all throughout the lands of Teman (Teyman). By coincidence, Jabal al-Nabi Shu?ayb and Jabal Hareeb are both in Yemen, and not far from Sana?a, whose name in the so-called ?Jahiliyya? era was Azal. If you stand on top of Jabal Shu?ayb, which is the tallest peak in all of Arabia, you will see to the east of you, the sand dunes of the Ahqaf Desert in the southern quadrant of the Rub-al-Khali desert.
Nowhere else on this planet will you find such names.
What is the "land of Teman"? Look up "Temanim Jews" and see where that leads you.
Look up and and see where the links lead you.
The Old testament speaks of a land flowing with milk and honey that was promised to Abraham?s progeny. It speaks of saffron, myrrh and frankinsense trees. Palestine did not produce one drop of honey during the Biblical times, nor does it have saffron, Myrrh, or frankinsense trees.
This insane deception will be exposed very soon. I promise you.
Peace...
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Salaam brother Pazuzu,
Thank you for your work, gave me further ideas to meditate upon.
God bless you
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Salaam bro
Thank you very much brother pazuzu.Yathrib, Badr, Makkah, Hunayn, Midian, and Misr are the proper names of TOWNS. And just because these words happen to have meanings (as all Arabic words inherently do), it does not change the fact that they are names of places.
Without proofs, i have the right to consider such a claim as belief.
I will try to respond later. I have to make some research before and i am a little busy these days.
i a m not sure what names are proper noun of towns and what names are not propers nouns of towns.Peace
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Salaam All
After some research, i get the conclusion that i cannot prove that medina is not a word that mean town in general in quran.
However, i defy whoever to proove that medina, in quran, is not a name of one town and only one town.so i will continue with that hypothesis
all people here believe that median is name of one town and only one town.
i ealy post i noticed that medina is same root as deen (traduced generally bu word religion) .
According to dictionnary, medina is the place where people obey to something (it can be both to words of god or to a political chief)The form median can point, from my point of view, to a meaning of town containing temple. (for example, in arabic, khobz mean breead and makhbaz a bakery)
so, from my arabic root understanding, Medina would be the political capital and Median the religious capital.
Let see now uses in quran
MEDINA occurences
Medina is town where there is people around (9-101; 9-120)
A man coming from the fathest part of medina ask to follow messengers (36-20).People of cave where near medina (18-19)
sourate the cave also. Medina is the town where Mussa built wall to protect treasure of two orphans (18-82)Nabi Lot where at medina 15-67
Hypocrtes coming from medina (muhammad era) 33-60 and 63-8
Moses and Firaoun are at medina (28-18;28-20;28-15;20-40; 7-123)
Medina is where people rejected prophet salih 27-48
Medina is where prophet Youssef was jailed 12-30 (so it is also misr)MEDIAN occurences
Median is where chuaib preached (7-85;29-36;11-84)
Median is where Moses take refuge after killing a man (28-23; 28-45?)
28-45 is speaking about probably Moses preaching there.Ashab (ِ median is used in 9-70 and 22-44. Ashab of median is not exactly same meaning as people of median. Google traduction give for Ashab meaning of Owners/holders/employers.
interesting to compare 22-43 and 22-44. People of Abraham, people of Lot but Ashab Median.
The same distinction is found in 9-70. it is only in median where we have word AshabMedian is as far as thamud (11-95).
That are all occurences i found .
It is intersting to note that thamud is were salih was (7-73;11-6. Thamud is often appering along with aad (9-70;14-9;22-42;25-38;29-38;40-31;41-13;69-4). In 38-13, thamud is appearing with people of LOT.
it seems like medina is where was thamud and aad and people of lotPutting all together, i can't decide anything.
i cannot forget however the mention of two main cities from wich Muhammad was not one of the greatness 3-31
i cannot decide even wich of medina or median are ommu el qura.
Similarity of words MEDINA and MEDIAN is too strong for me. They are both from root DEEN.
I cannot proove it but i am quite convinced that they are two specific towns of great DEEN importance.
i am in trouble because i see something important is hidden behind these two words.i am happy to note that issa never associated to medina or median.
Peace
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Salaam bros/sis
YEs nice thread, in tousands of threads here, this one is one of top 10 to follow regularly, even if im not doing it right now as a lack of time , but soon as God wil(and my will also,of course), ill be back to debate/add something to this topic, i never tought madina and madian in this way but need to study deeper.i take mirjamnur words..interesting post
Salaam and keep going..not posting this in vain anyway, a good search is always a good step to understendment.. peace