Really Confused About Salah!!!

noshirk

The amount of rakah or amount of prayers may been changed, but I doubt the "falling down on your knees and/or forehead" is fake.

May God bless you

Salaam
12100 And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they fell in prostration to Him . And he said......

( &#1591
.

I traduce what dictionnary said SAJADA= Shake head (up and down), bend , and pay great attention.
Jews do that with torah. In a funny way however.

and concerning knees
17107 Say "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating ???."

peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam noshirk,

Thanks for your valuable comments, I am open to ideas on the religious prayers and never closed to ideas different from mine. I am aware of the high probability that they are severely corrupted and exposed to man-made inventions.

God bless you

Man_of_Faith

Sorry, double posts.

good_logic

Peace justamuslim.

I do not recall I defined salat= ritual prayer anywhere?

Peace.

GODsubmitter

Salaam
12100 And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they fell in prostration to Him . And he said......

( &#1591
.

I traduce what dictionnary said SAJADA= Shake head (up and down), bend , and pay great attention.
Jews do that with torah. In a funny way however.

and concerning knees
17107 Say "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating ???."

peace

Thank you @noshirk,
for me it is very interesting that you found that in the Qur'an (I marked red) similar of how the Jews do with the Torah because I think they know certain religious things better then anyone else.

I wonder what would "chins prostrating" mean?

Thanx

peace

noshirk

I wonder what would "chins prostrating" mean?

Salaam God Submitter
i wonder too. prostrating is traduction put there for word Soujoud. Soujoud is the action of SAJADA.

for me, the photo of your profile shows a youg man doing soujoud. Probably, if it were a video, we would have seen his chin making little mouvements up and down as sign of agrrement and obedience.
knees is always added (absent thus from Quran) when speaking about salat or soujoud.

Jews have the good soujoud. However, it is too quick for me.

Peace

noshirk

because I think they (jews) know certain religious things better then anyone else.

Salaam

i think even that islam cannot be complete without torah and injeel (where is the injeel, that is the question).

for example. what are the four "Sacred Months" in wich Muslims have to make Hajj ?
i think, from the interpretation that Hajj is a kind of festival where truth seekers come to meet those who knows "words of God", that Torah give us 3.
It remains the fourth. It is probably in the injeel.

Hope that you knows that Month is a traduction for Shahr wich can mean "full moon"
and hope that you know that some jews festivals are quite always in a full moon day .

we have much to learn from jews and from the unknown nassara (traduced by christians by quran traductors).

Peace

herbman

Peace,

because I think they (jews) know certain religious things better then anyone else.

i think even that islam cannot be complete without torah and injeel (where is the injeel, that is the question).

Really? why? do you think jews today are bani Israel "son of Israel", common and they are also "the chosen one"!!!!

So, who are these jews you think they know?

GODsubmitter

Salaam God Submitter
i wonder too. prostrating is traduction put there for word Soujoud. Soujoud is the action of SAJADA.

for me, the photo of your profile shows a youg man doing soujoud. Probably, if it were a video, we would have seen his chin making little mouvements up and down as sign of agrrement and obedience.
knees is always added (absent thus from Quran) when speaking about salat or soujoud.

Jews have the good soujoud. However, it is too quick for me.

Peace

Thank you so much @noshirk for your encouraging words!
And thank you for your very nice words about my profile photo, I am so very glad that you say that it represents soujoud!

I like your posts elsewhere as well, and almost always agree with them.

You know, a popular belief among Jews is that one can get near to God mainly by studying His Word, that by reading the Torah, as much as one can, one is ever nearer to God. I think that is salat and soujoud. Now, I do not approve of Talmud and Pharisee twisting of words and meanings, because I think every normal human being can understand the clear message of piety of the Scriptures with his own natural light, and one doesn't need intermediaries to God!

God bless

justamuslim

Peace justamuslim.

I do not recall I defined salat= ritual prayer anywhere?

Peace.

I was under the impression that you are a "submitter" and from your other posts i just got the impression that you believe we should perform this ritual. If I am wrong, I do apologize.

Also when I use the pronoun "you" in the posts, it is this "generic" you which I think that I should make clearer. I find myself commenting what someone said and in the next sentence or paragraph, I am thinking of another thought.

If anyone here defines salat=ritual worship, I really would like to know how they come to this definition based on the verses good logic had quoted.

noshirk

You know, a popular belief among Jews is that one can get near to God mainly by studying His Word, that by reading the Torah, as much as one can, one is ever nearer to God. I think that is salat and soujoud. Now, I do not approve of Talmud and Pharisee twisting of words and meanings, because I think every normal human being can understand the clear message of piety of the Scriptures with his own natural light, and one doesn't need intermediaries to God!

Salaam GodSubmitter
i totally agree with your words.

568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Injeel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." ....

I didn't study torah very well, but i am sure that a godsubmitter can find in it the good path, even if he never reads the quran.

the more i read the quran the more i am impressioned by his words precision.
For exemple, Jews in quran are called Yahood. Yahood is from root Ha'da used many times in Quran in the sense of following the good path.

Unfortunately, like for word Muslim, the word Jew has now the meaning of appartenance to a group of Humans.
I think that the more difficult thing in the good path is to define himself only relative to God and not relative to an human Group.

It is only for partisans reasons that Muslims don't want to study Torah.
in quran, "Muslim to god" is an usual expression. When God asked Abraham to became Muslim, he said aslamtou li rabb el alamin (2-131).

Islam is in reference to God and never as sign of membership to human group.
Insan (Human) can be understood as the one who forget (yansa) and the one who assemble in community (you'nissou)

Hope that God will consider me a Muslim to him and a yahood in his path.
25 These are the ones guided by their Lord (on houdan), and these are the successful ones.

Peace

good_logic

Peace All.

Let us put " Salat" to bed and get to the bottom of what everyone is making out to be a mystery?

Here is a collection of the scripture about " salat" gathered together for the brave to find its definition, meaning,...At the end let us ask some relevant questions about " Salat" for the benefit of all who want to know.

First the verses( Not in any particular order)

I have listed enough verses here to ponder the following
1-What is " Salat"?
2-Why and how can we " Akim salat"?
3- Why prepare for "Salat"?
4-When was " Salat" commanded?
5-How do we " Akim salat"?

Do some of the above answer any of these questions? do they pose more questions?

May the Lord show us His true path.

Peace.

PixelAngelBaby

Peace All.

Let us put " Salat" to bed and get to the bottom of what everyone is making out to be a mystery?

Here is a collection of the scripture about " salat" gathered together for the brave to find its definition, meaning,...At the end let us ask some relevant questions about " Salat" for the benefit of all who want to know.

First the verses( Not in any particular order)

I have listed enough verses here to ponder the following
1-What is " Salat"?
2-Why and how can we " Akim salat"?
3- Why prepare for "Salat"?
4-When was " Salat" commanded?
5-How do we " Akim salat"?

Do some of the above answer any of these questions? do they pose more questions?

May the Lord show us His true path.

Peace.

This is great! I think there are a lot missing though. I will see if i can find a more extensive list somewhere.

I have a problem with 555... It clearly, to me, debunks my idea of zakat being charity giving. How can you pay zakat whilst making sujood? Unless sujood really is symbolic. Only Allah knows.

Scribbler

Peace be upon you.

Do not fall in the trap of satan in believing that salat is not contact prayer. Salat is physical and just like good logic stated earlier, it is a direct connection with God with no intermediate.

VARIOUS ASPECTS OF PRAYER

(1) The directive to establish prayer (Numerous references - 1087; 11114; 1431; 1437; 1440; 1778; 2110; 2277; 23; 243 283; 2014; 2235; 2241; 2456; 273; 2945; 3031; 3117; 314; 3529; 477; 4238; 512; 555; 5813; 672; 7170; 7320; 83; 911; 95; 971; 985)

(2) The details of ablution (443; 56)

(3) A need for a direction - Qiblah, specific for the ?believers? (Mu'mins) (2.143-44)

(4) Garments (731). Please note that in the verse, 'masjid' is specifically mentioned. (For general clothing advice see 726; 2431; 3359)

(5) Allusion of times (4103; 11114; 1778; 2458; 3018; 2238 205 See article The Five Prayers from the Quran

(6) That prayers must be observed on time (4103)

(7) Followers of the previous scripture to observe their Qiblah and the ?Believers (Mu?mins) their own Qiblah (2145). God is not direction dependant, His power, knowledge and authority extends everywhere. He cannot be restricted to any direction, East or West (2142). This is also a confirmation that People of the Book will not follow the new Qiblah of the Believers, each directing prayer to their own respective Qiblahs.

(7) Prayer involves prostration (Sujood - 4102; 4829)

( There is more than one prayer (Prayer in plural used - Salawat) (223

(9) There is a general form to prayer (2238-39). Standing position (339; 4102); Bowing down and prostrating (4102; 2226; 3824; 4829).

(10) Form is not required during times of emergencies, fear, and unusual circumstances (2239).

(11) A mention of a call to prayer and congregation prayer (629)

(12) Prayer and Dhikr (Remembrance) are not necessarily the same thing (6210) and DHIKR (constant remembrance) is better (2945)

(13) A warning not to abandon prayer as was the case with those before (1958-59)

(14) The purpose of prayer - To remember God alone (6162; 2014)

(15) Prayer involves utterance (443)

(16) The purpose to protect from sins (2945)

(17) What to do in danger and the shortening of prayer (4101)

(1 Even garments and mention of a 'Masjid', or a place of prayer (731)

(19) The tone of prayer (17110)

(20) There is a leader of prayer (4102)

Peace.

Wakas

peace all,

I'm afraid the phrasing "physical salat" is inappropriate, e.g. zakat is also physical, does one use the term "physical zakat"?

And I strongly recommendhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Which basically means that it is illogical to think if salat is not X it can only mean Y, when an alternative, such as Z is also possible.

Then http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm

Bigmo

Peace Friends,

I am confused as to how serious the regular maintaining of the Salah is mentioned in the Quran. I mean, suppose I study in a college and during my classes, their is time for the Middle Prayer or the Evening Prayer,

So DO I NEED TO GO OUT OF THE CLASS IN BETWEEN IT IS GOING ON BY TAKING PERMISSION FROM THE PROFESSOR, OFFER PRAYER IN THE SPACE MEANT TO BE A COURTYARD etc... AND THEN COME BACK FOR THE CLASS???...there comes no question of going home for the salah during time I am out of the class.

So I should do this??? or can I skip that Salah???? or can I......(.to be completed by you....)?????

I don't think there is something like Kaza or Kadha Or Qadha Salah if we consult the Quran Alone. Qadha actually says we can postpone the salah and offer it later but Quran says nothing like that.

So I will be happy if people post suggestions as I am in real state of confusion....

Please correct me if I am wrong at any point.

Peace for Friends
Harun

Just pray when you get up and than when you sleep. If you have time than pray at different times. You can pray 5 times, three times or two times. Just make it a routine and daily commitment.

Pray according to your time schedule and how you find comfortable

Bigmo

I am also AGAIN being confused about the ritual daily prayers...

... and the meaning of the word salat or solaa...
-\

Good question @Harun!
realistic doubt...

The Quran says

Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers merciful one to another. You see them bowing, prostrating, seeking blessing, bounty and good pleasure (of God). Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows strong and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them it may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage(4829)

The Quran means

Genesis 171-4 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Deuteronomy 56-9 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have none other gods before Me. 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them nor serve them...

Psalm 956 O come, let us worship and bow down let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.

Revelations 711-12 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Joshua 76-7 And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. 7 And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast Thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!

Numbers 1620-22 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying, 21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. 22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt Thou be wroth with the all of the congregation?

Numbers 206 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them.

Matthew 2636-39 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gesthemane, and saith unto his disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be very sorrowful and heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death; tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou Wilt.

Then the man bowed down and worshipped the Lord. (Genesis, 2426)

...So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 2930)

and I bowed down and worshiped the Lord. I praised the Lord?(Genesis, 244

.... Then the people bowed down and worshipped...did just what the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron. (Exodus, 1227-2

and they believed. And when they heard that the Lord was concerned about them and had seen their misery, they bowed down and worshipped. (Exodus, 431)

and bowed down...three times, with his face to the ground. (1 Samuel, 2041)

Ezra praised the Lord, the great God; and all the people lifted their hands and responded, "Amen! Amen!" Then they bowed down and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground. (Nehemiah, 86)

Abram bowed with his face touching the ground...(Genesis, 173)

When Abraham's servant heard what they said, he bowed down to the ground before the Lord. (Genesis, 2452)

Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshipped. (Exodus, 34

When Moses heard this, he fell facedown. (Numbers, 164)

the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened. (Numbers, 244)

Then Joshua bowed to the ground in reverence...(Joshua, 514)

When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The Lord?He is God! The Lord?He is God!"(1 Kings, 1839)

when I bow down in the temple...may the Lord forgive your servant for this. (2 Kings, 51

they bowed low and fell prostrate before the Lord. (1 Chronicles, 2920)

they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshipped and gave thanks to the Lord...(2 Chronicles, 73)

... the king and everyone present with him knelt down and worshipped... ordered... to praise the Lord. So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 2929-30)

Then he fell to the ground in worship and said ?Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.? (Job, 120-21)

GODsubmitter