Is Disbeliever = Enemy???

Harun

Peace Bros and Sis

I am in real need of suggestions with these verses as

O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from among you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.

2.You see many of them allying the rejecters. Wicked is what their souls have provided for them, for the wrath of God is upon them, and in the retribution they will abide.

Any many other verses apparently saying people to NOT even BEFREIND the pagans or the jews.

So does that mean one cannot befriend a DISBELIEVER.

Please comment what you think.

Peace
Harun

Aamer

From my understanding, that only applies when they are keeping you from practicing your religion or kicking you out of your homes. Verses 608-9 clear it up

God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.

But God does prohibit you regarding those who fought you because of your system, and drove you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out. You shall not ally with them. Those who ally with them, then such are the transgressors.

mohf

Also, the verses are talking about taking disbelivers/jews as allies, not friends. There is a difference between these two.

As I have understood it, the Quran is prohibiting taking disbelivers/jews as allies when we are in a war. That is because they (disbelivers/jews) may just deceive/spy you, because "they are allies of one another".

Jafar

I personally detest / reject that ALL verses in the Quran is for ALL TIME, ALL LOCATION and ALL CONTEXT.
And those verses exactly show that.

"Taking as allies" is definitely a 'political decision'.
Political decision must be taken within political context..

Those verses are applicable ONLY within the political context of Muhammad's time at Muhammad's place.
Muhammad was labeled as 'heresy' by the sectarian Jews + Christian around him and an 'infidel' / 'murtad' by the arab pagans.
Both hates his guts, because he's a 'threat' to their status and power within society.
(similar as the sectarian priest hates the secular which commonly found nowadays)

Thus, Muhammad is being advised not too take as allies those mentioned folks.

Apparently during Muhammad's time and at Muhammad's place, the jews makes an alliance with the christians.
Which is a 'rarity' if you know the history between them, most of the time they kill and torture each others, as any other sectarians.

This does not necessarily mean we should not befriend or make an allies with today's jews and christians (or any other sectarians such as the sunnis, the shiites, the quranites, the ahmadiyah etc..)
As political decision should be match with political context which is constantly changing..

Salam / Peace

Aamer

Jafar,
I agree that the verses are speaking about a particular political situation that Prophet Muhammad and his people were facing at that time. It is NOT referring to friendships with non believers who have done you no harm. However, I think there are lessons in this situation and other stories from older times in Quran that we can apply to our lives today if similar situations arise. But too many crazy Muslims take such verses out of context and use them to justify actions in completely different situations than the ones mentioned in Quran. Peace!

Harun

Peace to all,

I personally detest / reject that ALL verses in the Quran is for ALL TIME, ALL LOCATION and ALL CONTEXT.
And those verses exactly show that.

"Taking as allies" is definitely a 'political decision'.
Political decision must be taken within political context..

Those verses are applicable ONLY within the political context of Muhammad's time at Muhammad's place.
Muhammad was labeled as 'heresy' by the sectarian Jews + Christian around him and an 'infidel' / 'murtad' by the arab pagans.
Both hates his guts, because he's a 'threat' to their status and power within society.
(similar as the sectarian priest hates the secular which commonly found nowadays)

Thus, Muhammad is being advised not too take as allies those mentioned folks.

Apparently during Muhammad's time and at Muhammad's place, the jews makes an alliance with the christians.
Which is a 'rarity' if you know the history between them, most of the time they kill and torture each others, as any other sectarians.

This does not necessarily mean we should not befriend or make an allies with today's jews and christians (or any other sectarians such as the sunnis, the shiites, the quranites, the ahmadiyah etc..)
As political decision should be match with political context which is constantly changing..

Salam / Peace

I could not agree with you Jafar.

If We Believe in Quran Alone. We need to believe that Qran is guidance for a whole of Humanity for all times. Thus the political or social context of "THAT" time needs to be immaterial.

By Bringing in THE POLITICAL CONTEXT, we start the proposal of what is called Shaan-e-Nuzool in Urdu, in english it is The Circumstances of Revelation, the biggest contributor towards the promotion of Dogmatic and Heretic Teachings of the Hadiths.

To resolve the question asked. I would support Mohf. Ally =! Friend...thats clear even without the Context....

Peace
Harun

Jafar

I could not agree with you Jafar.

Fine by me, no problem..

If We Believe in Quran Alone. We need to believe that Qran is guidance for a whole of Humanity for all times. Thus the political or social context of "THAT" time needs to be immaterial.

I do NOT believe in Quran Alone..

And there's no statement whatsoever within the Quran that ALL PART of this book is a guidance for ALL humanity for ALL times. That statement is a preconceived notion proposed by some of it readers.

The verse you mention above is an example..

Christians are NOT ALWAYS in alliance with the Jews.
In fact MOST OF THE TIME they're enemy to each others..
Thus the verse is NOT TRUE at ALL TIMES and ALL PLACES..
It might be TRUE at SOME TIMES and SOME PLACES but not at ALL TIMES and ALL PLACES.

By Bringing in THE POLITICAL CONTEXT, we start the proposal of what is called Shaan-e-Nuzool in Urdu, in english it is The Circumstances of Revelation, the biggest contributor towards the promotion of Dogmatic and Heretic Teachings of the Hadiths.

What does that got to do with anything?

Just because Bukhari's fans are saying something which is a FACT, doesn't necessarily mean that FACT is NOT TRUE or those who agree with the FACT being stated are also a member of Bukhari's fans club.

Example
John believe the earth is flat (note this is not true)
John said the earth is flat because the earth rotate around the sun (the argument is true however it doesn't support or correlate with the conclusion)
Peter said the earth rotate around the sun

And then you think that Peter believe the earth is flat??

Salam / Peace

Jafar

I think there are lessons in this situation and other stories from older times in Quran that we can apply to our lives today if similar situations arise. But too many crazy Muslims take such verses out of context and use them to justify actions in completely different situations than the ones mentioned in Quran. Peace!

Now herewith the lesson.

Muhammad was being told of not to make any alliances with Christian, Jews or Pagan Arab factions.

Basically it's the same as "Muhammad and his group shall have NO alliance with anyone" and they shall 'fight / defend by themselves'. If you read other verses there are comforting verses to Muhammad which basically said "Do not worry or despair, even though you don't have any alliance because God is with you".

Moses basically been through the same thing, he was asked to oppose Pharaoh of Egypt, practically the most powerful person in the world at that time without any troops or political alliance. Again he was told of "do not despair because I'm (God) with you".

Jesus also been through the same thing, perhaps he's been through worse..
His close friends and companion deserted him when he was being captured by his enemy to be killed.

All of them at critical moment doesn't have anyone to rely on except God ALONE.
But that's (more than) enough..
It might requires a 'leap of faith', 'patience' and perseverance.. but if you're fighting for truth / good cause, you'll never be alone because God is with you..

That's what I think the lesson here...

Salam / Peace

noshirk

Salaam Harun

551 O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the NASSARA as allies (AWLIYA), for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from among you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.
580 You see many of them allying (YATAWALLOUNA) the rejecters. Wicked is what their souls have provided for them, for the wrath of God is upon them, and in the retribution they will abide.

i will add this
73 Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters (AWLIYA). Little do you remember!

so if Awliya means allies then is seems also that you have to take no allies at all ???
In arabic Wally means tutor. it is also used for saint.
For me, verses you quoted means that we don't have to follow thoughts and teaching of rejectors, jews(?) ans nassara.
Of course, i think also that it is restricted in religious field. A religious field beeing, of course, something dealt with by quran.

Peace