Shocking Facts about pork industry

sushi1992

If you have a problem with pork, then so be it. But dragging false information into this is not ok. Where is this article? Could you provide a link, please?

I have no idea who wrote the paper you see fit to quote here and what their research was based on, but how can you call this scientific?

If you look at their own definition of what they do it says
"The Islamic Organization for Medical Science (IOMS) was formed to fill a need for the Muslim "Ummah" (worldwide nation), to clarify the Islamic point of view of certain medical practices, to collect Islamic medical heritage and to determine how to apply it to modern day medical practice."

So you can see they admit themselves that they are not science but religion based. Just because they have the word "science" in their name does not make them scientific.
Wrong! The following is not a scientifically accurate paper. It is not based on scientific research or results. Nonsensical claim. "definitely proven" where, how, by what means, on what group using what methodology?
They "CAN" be life threatening? When? How? Under what conditions? In what group? How often?
"difficult measures" being what? In what order and dosage? In how many? How difficult? What is difficult? Difficult for whom how many times?
What type? How often? How many? What percentage? What group? What error margin and how many .........................

This is crazy!!! This is some guy looking for some words which sound threatening to people and to try and frighten them away from pork using ancient superstitions and voodoo.

Stop doing stupid things like this. Please stop being so gullible and try to stick to facts when looking at science. Don't mix science with religion!

If i remember correctly (because i do not have the links), the first quote was from a medical blog post from a supposed doctor, though i had my suspicions that the person may have been biased and directing everything bad towards pigs. However, the second quote about Singapore was definitely nothing to do with religion as far as i was concerned. Regardless if they are religious sites or actual medical sites, there is the same trend found that pork contains the highest level of visible fat, about 180 mg/100 g. In terms of the how what when and wheres? I couldn't find proper reasoning for it yet... no site is giving precise facts which is a bit annoying, i thought maybe it was me who couldn't find it, hence posting the quotes and seeing if someone would elaborate on the 'facts' posted. I believe the only threat that i found which is the most likely threat and the most dangerous is the one you previously mentioned - Trichinella spiralis, but i need to read into this more. I might just give this thread a miss for the time being, clearly i can't find any solid evidence from a scientific perspective that is strong enough to condemn pork altogether.

Emil

If an animal eats shit, I'll call it a dirty animal because to me it is dirty. I'm balanced with my 'animal racism' across the board. Not sure if StopS or whoever the comment was directed towards eats shit. They can confess if they want...I won't judge cough

Trying to stand up for the rights of animals is all well and good, but singling out a member on the boards and calling him/her a dirty animal is not fair, it's wrong unless you have access to certain private information about the creature's hygiene or whatever habits. I've had it up to my ears with people missing the forest for the trees if we're exchanging peeves. Every animal can be as unique as it wants and I agree that just because it's dirty doesn't mean that we won't eat it, people eat snails or roadkill regardless of the health risks they pose. The question is should we. As far as pork goes, it's pretty clear cut we can't in the quran...why we can't is what we can debate till the pigs come home, and we do.

If someone claims that the pig is dirty because it does what it has been taught or what is in its nature to do, then he or she should first think about what is in human nature to do. We do not like what pigs like and we have certainly been trained to dislike their behaviour. But does that make it ok to describe in derogatory way whatever deviates from our nature?

It is a very vague description you have Savage to classify something as dirty just because you happen not to agree with its behaviour, I would even go to the extent and say that is quite the contrary to your belief that you have a balanced animal racism. How many pigs have you known and befriended, Savage? I bet you if you would go and spend some time with a couple of them, got to know them a little you soon realize they are cleaner than what you think. They are just happy being pigs and they live their pig life doing what pigs do, please do not think they are dirty because you heard a story about a poo eating pig in India. Or even worse.......youtube.....

Humans, not pigs, are destroying this earth faster than what we care to admit. We are polluting the air, land and sea. The farmers are trying to maximise their profit by using all different kinds of chemicals to get super-size animals. We are happily eating the meat because it is......cheap.........Who is the dirty one?

Next time someone says the pig or any other kind of animal is dirty then you should take a moment and really think about which animal is dirtiest. The one who rolls around in mud all day or the one destroying Allahs creation? I would never dare to call an animal in a derogatory manner because they have been created and blessed by Allah.
Without us nature would be in perfect balance, just the way Allah (with the help of the Quran) is asking us humans to live as well. Unfortunately we are too stupid to realize that we are the dumb ones and the rest of Allahs creations are the ones that "get" it.

Maybe all of you that think the pig is dirty should take a look in the mirror first. Eventhough animals act like animals we are the dirty ones.

sushi1992

If someone claims that the pig is dirty because it does what it has been taught or what is in its nature to do, then he or she should first think about what is in human nature to do. We do not like what pigs like and we have certainly been trained to dislike their behaviour. But does that make it ok to describe in derogatory way whatever deviates from our nature?

It is a very vague description you have Savage to classify something as dirty just because you happen not to agree with its behaviour, I would even go to the extent and say that is quite the contrary to your belief that you have a balanced animal racism. How many pigs have you known and befriended, Savage? I bet you if you would go and spend some time with a couple of them, got to know them a little you soon realize they are cleaner than what you think. They are just happy being pigs and they live their pig life doing what pigs do, please do not think they are dirty because you heard a story about a poo eating pig in India. Or even worse.......youtube.....

Humans, not pigs, are destroying this earth faster than what we care to admit. We are polluting the air, land and sea. The farmers are trying to maximise their profit by using all different kinds of chemicals to get super-size animals. We are happily eating the meat because it is......cheap.........Who is the dirty one?

Next time someone says the pig or any other kind of animal is dirty then you should take a moment and really think about which animal is dirtiest. The one who rolls around in mud all day or the one destroying Allahs creation? I would never dare to call an animal in a derogatory manner because they have been created and blessed by Allah.
Without us nature would be in perfect balance, just the way Allah (with the help of the Quran) is asking us humans to live as well. Unfortunately we are too stupid to realize that we are the dumb ones and the rest of Allahs creations are the ones that "get" it.

Maybe all of you that think the pig is dirty should take a look in the mirror first. Eventhough animals act like animals we are the dirty ones.

Selam Emil,

I'm curious what your reasoning is behind not eating pork. I have no problem with pigs, even if they roll in crap, it may put me off a little but then I have chickens in my garden who step in crap and sometimes step on me but this is animal nature. I'd say I find some people much dirtier than animals in many respects. I don't eat pork for personal reasons, I don't like the smell, the taste etc but I'm curious what your reasoning is behind Allah prohibiting consumption of pork.

Thanks

FearGod

Selam Emil,

I'm curious what your reasoning is behind not eating pork. I have no problem with pigs, even if they roll in crap, it may put me off a little but then I have chickens in my garden who step in crap and sometimes step on me but this is animal nature. I'd say I find some people much dirtier than animals in many respects. I don't eat pork for personal reasons, I don't like the smell, the taste etc but I'm curious what your reasoning is behind Allah prohibiting consumption of pork.

Thanks

Because i guess the blind faith. ???

sushi1992

Because i guess the blind faith. ???

Well let's let Emil answer that shall we? I'm sure most people here know that blind faith is condemned and I doubt Emil would do this, so let's just await their explanation rather than speaking on behalf of people.

FearGod

Well let's let Emil answer that shall we? I'm sure most people here know that blind faith is condemned and I doubt Emil would do this, so let's just await their explanation rather than speaking on behalf of people.

Agree,and i am wondering too for what reason he avoid pork other than blind faith.

Emil

Please don't compare pigs to humans,you can compare them to yourself and to your dirty mind

First of all I want to apologize for calling you a dirty animal. I did not mean it in a physical hygeinic way, it was more of a reflection that if someone calls or claims something that cannot speak for itself as dirty, then that act could be considered dirty and quite animalistic (to talk before contemplation).

Muslims regard the pig as a dirty , unclean and impure animal.

It is funny that you should mention this because I have been wondering about this. Exactly what muslims see the pig as dirty, unclean and impure? All I know is that I heard a story that they had to put extra security in the Kabul zoo during the swine-flu episode a couple of years ago. There was an angry mob outside who wanted to kill the only living pig in Afghanistan. Are those the muslims you are talking about?

But your silly excuse that god created it then we shouldn't call it a dirty animal.
So what do you call the roach,a clean insect which lives in the sinks.

God created all but there are many things we can consider dirty. For example my kids when they have been to the playground. It is in a pigs nature to act in a way that pigs are supposed to act. I dont think it is a silly excuse to NOT talk about an animal in a derogatory manner because Allah has created a living thing that does not follow my understanding of what is dirty and not.

The cockroach is one of Allah greater creatures. It can adapt to any kind of surrounding. It can swim, fly and run fast as hell. It never gets sick, can eat virtually anything and they breed like rabbits. You know they say that roach is probably the only animal that will survive a nuclear bomb? Pretty darn amazing creature. They are scary though and I scream like a little girl when I see them. But just because they happen to like MY dirty sink does not give me the excuse to think I am more "important" in the eyes of Allah.....I would never consider them lower than me. They are here for a reason, they were put on this earth by Allah and I am not going to disrespect anything that He has created.

can you eat your food if the roach walked over it ?,i guess you'll eat it because thats god's creation too.

I have been taught that cockroaches can spread diseases so no, of course not I would not put myself in the risk of catching something. But does that mean I would consider the roach "dirty" in the sense you mean. No way.....

Your logic is a stupid one.

It has nothing to do with logic, it has to do with respect for animals and the absolute ridicilous notion to try and justify our dietary prohibition with science, biology and hearsay. I am sorry but I cannot read your words without thinking of this bishop in South Africa that said God created apartheid because He does not want whites and blacks to mix..and since whites were better humans than blacks (in the eyes of God) the white man should rule over the black man...... You are saying the same thing basically, that God does not want us to eat pork because it is a filthy animal and it will make us sick so we better separate and segragate from this filthy animal......I grant you that the prohibition of pork is very difficult to explain. But nonetheless we should not belittle one of God's creations just because we are looking for an answer.

its like saying why god created pigs if it'll be dirty,i guess to test the dirty minds as yours.

Again, Im sorry for calling you a dirty animal. But I do not know if my dirty mind needs to be tested just because I respect all living creatures. The truth is God created the pig and the pig does what pigs are supposed to do. They do not go against God. By saying that the pig is not a islamic animal (you claim it to be dirty, unclean and generally speaking quite disgusting) you are questioning Allahs creation......maybe you do not fear God after all.

Emil

Selam Emil,

I'm curious what your reasoning is behind not eating pork. I have no problem with pigs, even if they roll in crap, it may put me off a little but then I have chickens in my garden who step in crap and sometimes step on me but this is animal nature. I'd say I find some people much dirtier than animals in many respects. I don't eat pork for personal reasons, I don't like the smell, the taste etc but I'm curious what your reasoning is behind Allah prohibiting consumption of pork.

Thanks

Salam Sushi

I find the pork prohibition extremely hard to explain. I have turned this question in and out and I have gone through all the reasons but none of them will hold "in a court of law". I have however started to eliminate reasons

Not good for our health.............Can be easily compared to potato chips, Allah has not forbidden potato chips eventhough they are not healthy.
Dirty animal................................My kind of pig that lives in my country (like the one I posted a picture of before) is not dirtier than moose, deer or any other mammal living here.
What else........oh yeah, all the older scriptures that pigs are evil and Jesus performed a miracle by transferring the craziness in a man's head to a herd of pigs which then committed suicide by drowning themselves............Sorry, don't believe in that.

I am leaning towards the fact that once domesticated the pig is indeed difficult to breed and not really good for the local environment. They destroy more than they build and they are not supposed to live in such large groups as they do on a farm. They are also the only animal which is bred solely for their meat. We cannot make clothes from their wool, drink their milk or eat their eggs. Without any kind of Quranic evidence I feel it is wrong to breed an animal only for the sake of their meat......They are also receptable to many of the same diseases as us humans, maybe we should let them be?

Another rather unorthodox idea I have is that the pig is perhaps too good for us to eat? I mean it is a highly intelligent animal, maybe the pig is Allah's favourite animal? Sounds nuts, I know......but maybe.... hmm.......Anyways it is just a point to make, that not all is how we think it is.

The bottom line is dear Sushi is that out of all the Quranic verses, the pork prohibition stumps me completely. However, I do not eat pork not out of blind faith as mr FearGod says but rather because I do not want to eat an animal that has not been respected during its lifetieme and is only born for the sake of meat. I am sorry but I have not been able to connect my reasons to the Quran, but Inshalla before I die I will perhaps understand more.

FearGod

First of all I want to apologize for calling you a dirty animal. I did not mean it in a physical hygeinic way, it was more of a reflection that if someone calls or claims something that cannot speak for itself as dirty, then that act could be considered dirty and quite animalistic (to talk before contemplation).

Its O.K

It is funny that you should mention this because I have been wondering about this. Exactly what muslims see the pig as dirty, unclean and impure? All I know is that I heard a story that they had to put extra security in the Kabul zoo during the swine-flu episode a couple of years ago. There was an angry mob outside who wanted to kill the only living pig in Afghanistan. Are those the muslims you are talking about?

Yes i agree it is awful to kill god's creation such as mices , roaches ,mosquitos.

But i hope god will forgive me doing that because sometimes i am pushed for doing so,
but i am sure god won't put me in hell for doing that,God is merciful.

and i can add how bad we are that we kill god's creation for eating chicken ,lamb ,beef
and also the poor pig as you have seen in the OP.

God created all but there are many things we can consider dirty. For example my kids when they have been to the playground. It is in a pigs nature to act in a way that pigs are supposed to act. I dont think it is a silly excuse to NOT talk about an animal in a derogatory manner because Allah has created a living thing that does not follow my understanding of what is dirty and not.

Yes we insulted their feelings and that is kind of gossiping. ???

The cockroach is one of Allah greater creatures. It can adapt to any kind of surrounding. It can swim, fly and run fast as hell. It never gets sick, can eat virtually anything and they breed like rabbits. You know they say that roach is probably the only animal that will survive a nuclear bomb? Pretty darn amazing creature. They are scary though and I scream like a little girl when I see them. But just because they happen to like MY dirty sink does not give me the excuse to think I am more "important" in the eyes of Allah.....I would never consider them lower than me. They are here for a reason, they were put on this earth by Allah and I am not going to disrespect anything that He has created.

So don't crush it with your shoes.

I have been taught that cockroaches can spread diseases so no, of course not I would not put myself in the risk of catching something. But does that mean I would consider the roach "dirty" in the sense you mean. No way.....

No don't consider it dirty,that is kind of gossiping.

It has nothing to do with logic, it has to do with respect for animals and the absolute ridicilous notion to try and justify our dietary prohibition with science, biology and hearsay. I am sorry but I cannot read your words without thinking of this bishop in South Africa that said God created apartheid because He does not want whites and blacks to mix..and since whites were better humans than blacks (in the eyes of God) the white man should rule over the black man...... You are saying the same thing basically. God does not want us to eat pork because it is a filthy animal and it will make us sick......I grant you that the prohibition of pork is very difficult to explain. But nonetheless we should not belittle one of God's creations just because we are looking for an answer.

Say 'I find nothing in what has been revealed to me that forbids any one to eat of any food except the dead, running blood, and the flesh of swine for these are unclean and that which has been hallowed in its slaughter to other than Allah. But whoever is constrained to eat of any of these, not intending to sin or transgress, then your Lord is Forgiving, the Most Merciful. (6145)

Oh sorry,the verse says unclean. (

Again, Im sorry for calling you a dirty animal. But I do not know if my dirty mind needs to be tested because I respect all living creatures. The truth is God created the pig and the pig does what pigs are supposed to do. They do not go against God. By saying that the pig is not a islamic animal (you claim it to be dirty, unclean and generally speaking quite disgusting) you are questioning Allahs creation......maybe you do not fear God after all.

You are so sad about pigs and that tells it all.

Play with open cards.

Emil

and i can add how bad we are that we kill god's creation for eating chicken ,lamb ,beef
and also the poor pig as you have seen in the OP.

Who said anything about eating pork? I never said that, I am only looking for respect for animals

You are so sad about pigs and that tells it all.

Stop talking like I understand what you are saying. I am sad whenever another living creature is not respected, what does that tell you?

Play with open cards.

confused

Say 'I find nothing in what has been revealed to me that forbids any one to eat of any food except the dead, running blood, and the flesh of swine for these are unclean and that which has been hallowed in its slaughter to other than Allah. But whoever is constrained to eat of any of these, not intending to sin or transgress, then your Lord is Forgiving, the Most Merciful. (6145)
Oh sorry,the verse says unclean.

Yes I am fully aware it says unclean, but it is mistake to say that unclean means not good for us in the health-wise manner. Why? Because you cannot defend that argument without being dogmatic. You can be proven wrong, you understand what I mean? And the only way you can defend yourself is by not listening to reason.
There is a deeper meaning to it my brother, you got to open your mind to other possibilities than the one that first pops in your mind. I will give you an example of my reasoning. For all of those that speak arabic please inform me if I am wrong, I only derive my conclusions from the english/swedish translation

In 6145 it states that certain meat products are "un-clean". The opposite of un-clean should logically speaking be clean.

In 2222 it states to approach a woman only when they are clean (not menstruating). Logical conclusion to that means the woman is un-clean when they are menstruating.

The english Quran uses unclean to describe pork and clean to describe a non-menstruating woman. If the pig is an un-clean animal, then a menstruating woman can be compared to a pig..........

I don't know about you but I do not think it is wise to call a menstruating woman a pig....... Therefore it is a mistake to accept the un-clean in 6145 as "unhygenic" or "bad for health" without further investigation. There are more layers to understanding the pork prohibition than meets the eye.

sushi1992

In 2222 it states to approach a woman only when they are clean (not menstruating). Logical conclusion to that means the woman is un-clean when they are menstruating.

Selam Emil,

This is kinda unrelated to the thread, however I thought i'd like to provide a better translation of 2222. A woman being thought of as "unclean" whilst menstruating is an old view dating back many many years ago where people thought that that kind of blood from a woman at that time of the month is sacred. Here is the best translation from brother Mazhar

And they people ask you, the messenger regarding the Menstruation/Menstrual discharge period of wives.
You tell them, "The menstrual discharge is a cause of little vexation.
For this reason therefore, you people consciously refrain/restrain-stay away "performing sexually-enter semen" with such of wives who are in the state of the Menstruation//Menstrual discharge period.
And you should not associate/approach them for matrimonial nearness so long they may exhaust/drain out menstrual discharge.
Consequently, when they have exhausted/drained out making themselves cleansed for this reason/in this state, you people/husbands associate with them from the point of location and time Allah has decreed/appointed for you people.
Indeed Allah the Exalted appreciates and recognizes those who return/revert to proper conduct/point leading to right direction and He the Exalted appreciates and recognizes those who maintain cleanliness and purity.

sushi1992

Salam Sushi

I find the pork prohibition extremely hard to explain. I have turned this question in and out and I have gone through all the reasons but none of them will hold "in a court of law". I have however started to eliminate reasons

Not good for our health.............Can be easily compared to potato chips, Allah has not forbidden potato chips eventhough they are not healthy.
Dirty animal................................My kind of pig that lives in my country (like the one I posted a picture of before) is not dirtier than moose, deer or any other mammal living here.
What else........oh yeah, all the older scriptures that pigs are evil and Jesus performed a miracle by transferring the craziness in a man's head to a herd of pigs which then committed suicide by drowning themselves............Sorry, don't believe in that.

I am leaning towards the fact that once domesticated the pig is indeed difficult to breed and not really good for the local environment. They destroy more than they build and they are not supposed to live in such large groups as they do on a farm. They are also the only animal which is bred solely for their meat. We cannot make clothes from their wool, drink their milk or eat their eggs. Without any kind of Quranic evidence I feel it is wrong to breed an animal only for the sake of their meat......They are also receptable to many of the same diseases as us humans, maybe we should let them be?

Another rather unorthodox idea I have is that the pig is perhaps too good for us to eat? I mean it is a highly intelligent animal, maybe the pig is Allah's favourite animal? Sounds nuts, I know......but maybe.... hmm.......Anyways it is just a point to make, that not all is how we think it is.

The bottom line is dear Sushi is that out of all the Quranic verses, the pork prohibition stumps me completely. However, I do not eat pork not out of blind faith as mr FearGod says but rather because I do not want to eat an animal that has not been respected during its lifetieme and is only born for the sake of meat. I am sorry but I have not been able to connect my reasons to the Quran, but Inshalla before I die I will perhaps understand more.

Selam Emil,

I do not reckon Allah has a favourite animal, and most of the points made i would probably not accept as it isn't convincing enough. I think you have provided some good psychological reasons and also a point that a pig has the same susceptible diseases as us, but i think this needs to be looked into further.

I was reading the one verse that states the reason for not eating swine, and it's this one. I've listed all translations and the arabic aswell

6145 Say, "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood poured forth, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Compassionate.

6145 Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

6145 Say "In all that has been revealed unto me, I do not find anything forbidden to eat, if one wants to eat thereof, unless it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine-for that, behold, is loathsome-or a sinful offering over which any name other than God's has been invoked. But if one is driven by necessity - neither coveting it nor exceeding his immediate need -then , behold, thy Sustainer is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."

6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelation given to me, any food that is prohibited for one who wishes to eat except Carrion (dead meat), or running blood, or the flesh of swine - for, certainly, it is a barrier to moral development. Or, anything (not just meat) that, in defiance to commands, has been dedicated to other than God." If one is forced by dire need without being deliberate and without transgressing, your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

6145 Qul la ajidu feema oohiyailayya muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhuilla an yakoona maytatan aw daman masfoohan aw lahmakhinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun aw fisqan ohilla lighayri Allahibihi famani idturra ghayra baghin wala AAadinfa-inna rabbaka ghafoorun raheemun

6145

I reckon the word in bold is very important. If someone knows how to find the meanings of the arabic root words, could they find it being from the triliteral root r jm sn ( &#1587, used 10 times in the reading as the noun rij's (&#1587. I've found some of it's meanings

abomination
filth
impure
punishment
evil
wrath

The pig is not spoken of in a positive sense as far as i can tell. It is clearly being called impure for some reason, and we should not eat of it. I'm not sure if it really is implying some kind of health risk, or if it is being called impure for another reason such as rolling around in it's own dung, but then that's what it's meant to do... so i'm not too sure...

peace

Emil

Salam Sushi

I do not reckon Allah has a favourite animal

Me neither only brainstorming...... however in so many things the truth turns out to be the exact opposite than what we thought from the beginning. Just want to keep the doors open so to say...

and most of the points made i would probably not accept as it isn't convincing enough

I actually agree......I haven't convinced myself either that it is what Allah had in mind. Me not eating pork is of course based on the Quran but unfortunately I cannot base my opinion about why we should not eat pork on the Quran. Not yet anyways.....

Is the term "clean" in 222 the direct opposite of "unclean" in 6145? I mean, in Arabic?

sushi1992

Salam Sushi

Me neither ) only brainstorming...... however in so many things the truth turns out to be the exact opposite than what we thought from the beginning. Just want to keep the doors open so to say...

I actually agree......I haven't convinced myself either that it is what Allah had in mind. Me not eating pork is of course based on the Quran but unfortunately I cannot base my opinion about why we should not eat pork on the Quran. Not yet anyways.....

Is the term "clean" in 222 the direct opposite of "unclean" in 6145? I mean, in Arabic?

Selam Emil,

Brainstorming is all good , i hope i also find the answer before i die. Did you read the post i made before fully responding to your question? The one about menstruation? Anyway i think if we look at the arabic, in most cases the word "rij's" is used to denote impurity but not necessarily uncleanliness... though i'm not sure - awaiting someone arabic to shed some light...

peace

FearGod

Who said anything about eating pork? I never said that, I am only looking for respect for animals

Stop talking like I understand what you are saying. I am sad whenever another living creature is not respected, what does that tell you?
confused

You didn't say a dirty roach,but it was easy for you to say that i am a dirty human. ???

Yes I am fully aware it says unclean, but it is mistake to say that unclean means not good for us in the health-wise manner. Why? Because you cannot defend that argument without being dogmatic. You can be proven wrong, you understand what I mean? And the only way you can defend yourself is by not listening to reason.
There is a deeper meaning to it my brother, you got to open your mind to other possibilities than the one that first pops in your mind. I will give you an example of my reasoning. For all of those that speak arabic please inform me if I am wrong, I only derive my conclusions from the english/swedish translation

In 6145 it states that certain meat products are "un-clean". The opposite of un-clean should logically speaking be clean.

In 2222 it states to approach a woman only when they are clean (not menstruating). Logical conclusion to that means the woman is un-clean when they are menstruating.

The english Quran uses unclean to describe pork and clean to describe a non-menstruating woman. If the pig is an un-clean animal, then a menstruating woman can be compared to a pig..........

I don't know about you but I do not think it is wise to call a menstruating woman a pig....... Therefore it is a mistake to accept the un-clean in 6145 as "unhygenic" or "bad for health" without further investigation. There are more layers to understanding the pork prohibition than meets the eye.

They will question thee concerning the monthly course. Say It is hurt; so go apart from women during the monthly course, and do not approach them till they are clean. When they have cleansed themselves, then come unto them as God has commanded you. Truly, God loves those who repent, and He loves those who cleanse themselves. (2222)

God here is talking about sexual intercourse at time of menstrual cycle to be avoided and to have the normal sex once woman is clean from her menstrual cycle.

i don't know how you mix things up and even god says it is hurt and didn't say haram as in the case of pork which is haram.

The menstrual cycle is disgusting yuck and god advices us not to approach woman at her period
because that isn't clean (disgusting) i don't know if its OK for you.

So as the menstrual cycle and the view of blood is disgusting the samething is for the pork that eating his own dung and even eating dead animals.

both are disgusting , you made me feel sick just to imagine those things,bull****

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOddFhqWP9A

Emil

You didn't say a dirty roach,but it was easy for you to say that i am a dirty human. ???

They will question thee concerning the monthly course. Say It is hurt; so go apart from women during the monthly course, and do not approach them till they are clean. When they have cleansed themselves, then come unto them as God has commanded you. Truly, God loves those who repent, and He loves those who cleanse themselves. (2222)

God here is talking about sexual intercourse at time of menstrual cycle to be avoided and to have the normal sex once woman is clean from her menstrual cycle.

i don't know how you mix things up and even god says it is hurt and didn't say haram as in the case of pork which is haram.

The menstrual cycle is disgusting yuck and god advices us not to approach woman at her period
because that isn't clean (disgusting) i don't know if its OK for you.

So as the menstrual cycle and the view of blood is disgusting the samething is for the pork that eating his own dung and even eating dead animals.

both are disgusting , you made me feel sick just to imagine those things,bull****

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOddFhqWP9A

Dear brother I was just making a point that both verses contain the same word but in opposite to eachother, clean and unclean. My point was that the term clean or unclean can mean more than just "dirty" and "not dirty".
First you tell me I got it wrong to compare 6145 and 2222, that they are talking about two completey different kinds of dirt. Then in the next sentence you describe menstruation as disgusting, you even put a little yuck smily face to emphasize your emotion. To me you seem to interpret the term clean (2222) and unclean (6145) to be the opposite of eachother. You are describing a menstruating woman the same way you are describing a pig......If I understood you wrong please explain to me the difference.

Anyways, menstruation, cockroaches and pigs are part of what Allah has created and they are part of nature. Please read sister Sushi and what she wrote, she explains it better than I do........I am going to end my discussion with you right here. Clearly you got issues.....You seem to have to have let your personal earthly opinion govern too much how you see Allah?s gudidance to the straight path. I know it is hard, many including myself struggle to be objective. But anyways, you strike me as someone who has missed that Allah is asking you to be respectful because you seem to have little respect for women and animals. I apologised for calling you a dirty animal, maybe this time it is you who should apologise to the women you offended.......as well as the pigs, remember they are also God?s creation, just like you are sun

FearGod

Dear brother I was just making a point that both verses contain the same word but in opposite to eachother, clean and unclean. My point was that the term clean or unclean can mean more than just "dirty" and "not dirty".
First you tell me I got it wrong to compare 6145 and 2222, that they are talking about two completey different kinds of dirt. Then in the next sentence you describe menstruation as disgusting, you even put a little yuck smily face to emphasize your emotion. To me you seem to interpret the term clean (2222) and unclean (6145) to be the opposite of eachother. You are describing a menstruating woman the same way you are describing a pig......If I understood you wrong please explain to me the difference.

Anyways, menstruation, cockroaches and pigs are part of what Allah has created and they are part of nature. Please read sister Sushi and what she wrote, she explains it better than I do........I am going to end my discussion with you right here. Clearly you got issues.....You seem to have to have let your personal earthly opinion govern too much how you see Allah?s gudidance to the straight path. I know it is hard, many including myself struggle to be objective. But anyways, you strike me as someone who has missed that Allah is asking you to be respectful because you seem to have little respect for women and animals. I apologised for calling you a dirty animal, maybe this time it is you who should apologise to the women you offended.......as well as the pigs, remember they are also God?s creation, just like you are sun

You are playing with words and don't please disparage our minds,your deceitful ways are a stupid ones.

i didn't say that women are unclean but i said the menstrual cycle which last for 3 days is disgusting so your
tricky ways that you twisted words as if i am saying women are similar to pigs whereas there is no connection
between both verses which saying that pork meat is unclean and menstrual cycle is hurting and not specificaly haram.

Our religion my friend is very clear regarding the pig as impure and unclean.

No muslim will agree with you and your tricky ways are silly like saying the menstrual cycle is made by god
and the pig is created by god and also feces planned to be so by god,so i advice you to delete the words
dirty and smutsig from your Vocabulary.

Emil

Dear mr FearGod

I said I wouldn't discuss with you anymore, but you intrigue me so forgive me for breaking my promise.

Our religion my friend is very clear regarding the pig as impure and unclean.

Yes, but what kind of unclean? What I am trying to make you understand is that you need to look deeper into the meanings of words. You so galantly google-translated dirty into Swedish "smutsig". The word "smutsig" means dirty but only in the hygeinic way. It means dirty as in the way of "dirty laundry". You cannot use the swedish word for dirty as the way you can use the english word. For example you cannot "talk dirty" in Swedish....I am trying to give you an example that a word can have more than one meaning and it can be used differently in different languages. You have to look beyond what you think something means.

The same goes for the Quran. The question is how a word like unclean should be translated from Arabic. When translated then it must be scrutinized with objectivity as to what meaning should be used. A woman's menstruation is not dirty or unclean in the biological sense. That is ridicilous...The blood is not contaminated in any way, it doesnt carry disease or anything. When the Quran states we men should wait until the woman is "clean" then it is not because the woman is biologically dirty while menstruatin. The term "clean" means something else, spiritually? emotionally?

Same goes for the pig. The pig itself is not dirty but it has certain natural behaviours that we humans consider dirty and disgusting. But Allah has created the pig to be that way and we should accept that. The reason for us not allowed to eat pork must be for some other reason than "unclean" in the hygenic/biological sense. The evidence for that is quite clear when we look at other animals that we are allowed to eat. Fish is allowed but they would happily eat a human corpse. Some fish are even cannibals but I see no restrictions to eating fish in the Quran. We are allowed to eat hippos eventhough their mudbaths and throwing around poo is almost identical to pig behaviour, I know hippos are not exactly the first choice on the menu, but nonetheless it is an animal very similar to the pig but it doesnt have a Quranic restriction .........Why this discrimination against the pig?
The term "unclean" must be interpreted into something else other than "dirty". Something that it is quite difficult to understand and figure out. It cannot be that Allah has singled out one animal as forbidden to eat because of biology/behaviour when there are countless of others that have the same diet and behaviour as the pig.

No muslim will agree with you and your tricky ways are silly like saying the menstrual cycle is made by god
and the pig is created by god and also feces planned to be so by god,so i advice you to delete the words
dirty and smutsig from your Vocabulary
.

No muslim will agree with me that the menstrual cycle is Allah?s creation?
No muslim will agree with me that the pig is created by Allah?

If not Allah, then who, mr FearGod, created them?

FearGod

Dear mr FearGod

I said I wouldn't discuss with you anymore, but you intrigue me so forgive me for breaking my promise.

Yes, but what kind of unclean? What I am trying to make you understand is that you need to look deeper into the meanings of words. You so galantly google-translated dirty into Swedish "smutsig". The word "smutsig" means dirty but only in the hygeinic way. It means dirty as in the way of "dirty laundry". You cannot use the swedish word for dirty as the way you can use the english word. For example you cannot "talk dirty" in Swedish....I am trying to give you an example that a word can have more than one meaning and it can be used differently in different languages. You have to look beyond what you think something means.

The same goes for the Quran. The question is how a word like unclean should be translated from Arabic. When translated then it must be scrutinized with objectivity as to what meaning should be used. A woman's menstruation is not dirty or unclean in the biological sense. That is ridicilous...The blood is not contaminated in any way, it doesnt carry disease or anything. When the Quran states we men should wait until the woman is "clean" then it is not because the woman is biologically dirty while menstruatin. The term "clean" means something else, spiritually? emotionally?

Same goes for the pig. The pig itself is not dirty but it has certain natural behaviours that we humans consider dirty and disgusting. But Allah has created the pig to be that way and we should accept that. The reason for us not allowed to eat pork must be for some other reason than "unclean" in the hygenic/biological sense. The evidence for that is quite clear when we look at other animals that we are allowed to eat. Fish is allowed but they would happily eat a human corpse. Some fish are even cannibals but I see no restrictions to eating fish in the Quran. We are allowed to eat hippos eventhough their mudbaths and throwing around poo is almost identical to pig behaviour, I know hippos are not exactly the first choice on the menu, but nonetheless it is an animal very similar to the pig but it doesnt have a Quranic restriction .........Why this discrimination against the pig?
The term "unclean" must be interpreted into something else other than "dirty". Something that it is quite difficult to understand and figure out. It cannot be that Allah has singled out one animal as forbidden to eat because of biology/behaviour when there are countless of others that have the same diet and behaviour as the pig.

For Swedish words i found this to prove that you are a liar

Du ?r en smutsig gris which means in english you are a dirty pig.

Reference http//ar.glosbe.com/sv/ar/gris

And also you are lying when comparing hippos to pigs, here is an article about hippos from wikipedia

Hippos spend most of their days wallowing in the water, or the mud, with the other members of their pod. The water serves to keep their body temperature down, and to keep their skin from drying out. With the exception of eating, most of hippopotamuses' lives ?from childbirth, fighting with other hippos, to reproduction? occur in the water. Hippos leave the water at dusk and travel inland, sometimes up to 8 kilometers (5 mi), to graze on short grass, their main source of food. They spend four to five hours grazing and can consume 68 kilograms (150 lb) of grass each night. Like almost any herbivore, they will consume many other plants if presented with them, but their diet in nature consists almost entirely of grass, with only minimal consumption of aquatic plants. Hippos have (rarely) been filmed eating carrion, usually close to the water. There are other reports of meat-eating, and even cannibalism and predation. The stomach anatomy of a hippo is not suited to carnivory, and meat-eating is likely caused by aberrant behavior or nutritional stress.84

Video of hippos in the wild
The diet of hippos consists mostly of terrestrial grasses, even though they spend most of their time in the water. Most of their defecation occurs in the water, creating allochthonous deposits of organic matter along the river beds. These deposits have an unclear ecological function. Because of their size and their habit of taking the same paths to feed, hippos can have a significant impact on the land they walk across, both by keeping the land clear of vegetation and depressing the ground. Over prolonged periods hippos can divert the paths of swamps and channels.

Adult hippos move at speeds up to 8 km/h (5 mph) in water. Adult hippos typically resurface to breathe every three to five minutes. The young have to breathe every two to three minutes.4 The process of surfacing and breathing is automatic, and even a hippo sleeping underwater will rise and breathe without waking. A hippo closes its nostrils when it submerges into the water. As with fish and turtles on a coral reef, hippos occasionally visit cleaning stations and signal, by opening their mouths wide, their readiness for being cleaned of parasites by certain species of fish. This is an example of mutualism in which the hippo benefits from the cleaning, while the fish receive food

Reference http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippopotamus

No muslim will agree with me that the menstrual cycle is Allah?s creation?
No muslim will agree with me that the pig is created by Allah?

If not Allah, then who, mr FearGod, created them?

Are you serious,if god caused the menstrual cycle to happen then we aren't allowed to say
it is dirty because God created it to be so and if god created the pig to be dirty then we aren't
allowed to say dirty because god created it to be so.

Can you wash your face with the blood of woman's menstrual cycle ? it is god's creation

Can a woman walk without a napkin in case she had the menstruation.

There is one of 2

We can't fix stupid
We can't believe a liar

mirjamnur

Salam

this is a very emotional topic, indeed-- it seems when the logic goes the emotions (fantasies= jinns??) are coming and we should try to not let overtake the 'chaytanic fantasies'

first we have the facts, that the flesh from the swine is mentioned in the Quran as in the Torah. And there are 'unclean' animals mentioned in the Torah before the story with Mose- Noah had to take from 'clean' and 'unclean' animals in the arche.
so the problems stills, WHY God make a distinction between 'clean' and 'unclean'?

i found two explanations for the question

the distinction was only made in order to distinguish the obedient servant of the disobedient - a means of forming a group
The distinction was made for health reasons.

since the first contradicts my logic and the ethics of the Quran, I searched for more information on the second answer. (we see also in the verse, that God forbid meat crushed to death, dead, torn by wild animals.
it also suggests that pork has something to do with death
The word explanation of the Torah and the Arabic word point to the same fact, namely, that something inedible, toxic must be meant. (As the original meaning)

I found pseudo Scientific reasons but also evidence that unclean animals means those who feed on carrion (carcass can not be equated with a cadaver that is still considered fresh meat. Only after a while, the meat is considered carrion when for most of the animals is inedible. however not so for Eagles, vultures, hyenas, wild (swine) boar, pork, clams, crabs.

Quote from an article

This may sound like a quip, but it is important to understand the disease and treat it. Pigs have a special enzyme in high concentrations, which breaks down histamine.
The need of pigs because they eat carrion and carrion has high concentrations of histamine. If you can not reduce histamine and would take Aas it would be to nausea, Dizziness, feel sick, much like seasickness.
(translated from German with Google)

another link

http//www.bleib-gesund-service.info/finger-weg-vom-schweinefleisch/

Quote from above site

The following are a very few excerpts from the "Creator's diet"

Meats that you should not eat out of love for his health
1.Pork. (I only mention that which we know here in our region and also eat.)
2.Fish or marine animals that you should not eat out of love for his healthSmooth-skinned aquatic animals such as catfish, eel, hard-shelled crustaceans such as Crabs, lobsters and mussels.
2. Birds feed on carrion, should also be avoided.

Designated as unclean animals are therefore considered unclean, or unhealthy, because they were created as scavengers.They are animals which dispose sense anything left on the field, etc. dead. The word in Hebrew for "unclean meats" can also use the word stinking spoiled and rendered rotten.
(translated with google)

a proof, that the wild swine can eat carcass / Aas

http//gross-okandjou.de/schwein-frisst-affen/

another story i found here

http//www.welt.de/wissenschaft/tierwelt/article109656819/Schweine-fressen-alles-Auch-ihren-toten-Farmer.html

(from the above article, translation google)

Pigs eat people?

They do it, experts say. Because pigs are omnivores. And eat well known everything. "If a man lies dead on the ground, it is no longer perceived as their holders from the pigs," said the animal psychologist Andrea Sch?fer. "The cold body smells even more like a man,but after dead meat. For the pig, these are to carrion. And that is just eaten. "

my personal conclusion about all this

the distinction between clean and unclean is made because for their 'meal plan' not because of their penchant for grunge or mud therapy inpure because it will be toxic for us.
God speaks from 'good' food and healthy food - so toxic food is unhealthy
in our time virtually any food is inedible and poisonous and can thus be considered as "impure".
mass animal transports or animal abuse or cruel slaughtering make the meat - despite a 'halal' slaughter - inedible and poisonous, i.e against of the law from God

ps.
the menstruation is not yuck but a normal bleeding- o.k blood is not everyones case- but, God clearly states in the Quran that a women is not avoided because she is 'unclean', but man should made no sexual intercourse with her, because otherwise she can get evil infections . (And certainly there are not many couples who want to have sexual intercourse in spite of bleeding.)

Salam and we are discussing not fighting.
peace