sharia
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Does sharia law come from the Quran or from the hadith or neither? and when governments say that they want to "legitimize Islam" does that mean making Sharia the law of the land? it seems like many arab/african countries such as mali, Somalia, sudan are big on Sharia law and actually enforce it. how can any muslim--whether shia or sunni or whoever- support Sharia law when, IMO, it seems to clearly be against human rights. I hear the argument sometimes that, oh those populations that practice stoning and other extreme commands of sharia law are the minority and that does not represent us, they have twisted the law...but these societies must be getting their ideas from somewhere if they are so steadfast upon their beliefs and act so willingingly upon them and claim that it is the divine law of God, so then what is their source? And why do some Muslims deny the faults in Sharia law if it is from God and therefore nothing to be ashamed of? Or maybe all muslims are for Sharia afterall but don't want to admit it?
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Does sharia law come from the Quran or from the hadith or neither? and when governments say that they want to "legitimize Islam" does that mean making Sharia the law of the land? it seems like many arab/african countries such as mali, Somalia, sudan are big on Sharia law and actually enforce it. how can any muslim--whether shia or sunni or whoever- support Sharia law when, IMO, it seems to clearly be against human rights. I hear the argument sometimes that, oh those populations that practice stoning and other extreme commands of sharia law are the minority and that does not represent us, they have twisted the law...but these societies must be getting their ideas from somewhere if they are so steadfast upon their beliefs and act so willingingly upon them and claim that it is the divine law of God, so then what is their source? And why do some Muslims deny the faults in Sharia law if it is from God and therefore nothing to be ashamed of? Or maybe all muslims are for Sharia afterall but don't want to admit it?
If you are asking about Sunni/Shia Islam they get their shariah law almost exclusively from hadith. They might refer some of that laws to the Quran but usually they interpret those verses from hadiths and often they can abrogate (nullify) some of the verses of the Quran.
Quranic law and Sunni/Shia shariah law are two opposites. They have very little in common.
There is an outline drawn in the free-minds website that shows some of the major differences between the Quran and what Sunnis and Shias follow.
In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the Straight Path (6151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (9012-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war
In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times?
In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (412), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants?
In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the mans guardianship (43), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Muta)...
In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (651, 654), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification?
In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (1276), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability?
In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (242), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death?
In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2256, 1099; 1829; 8821-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths?
In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter Muslim must work to attain the status of Faithful Mumin (4914), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...
In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards?
In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (2227-2Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (1712, 936), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time
In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (327), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases?
In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(732-33, 16116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all?
In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur?an through consultation and free-speech (548, 423. Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.
Its not everything but its a very good outline.
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Hm I see I see, that is an extensive outline that's for posting! To some of the points you mentioned, I still have heard Sunnis claiming that they do not participate in/believe in the stoning, cutting off of hands, violence towards non-muslims etc.. especially when they are trying to defend the negatives of Islam. So I find it strange, why deny what is in your hadiths? Or at least why try to water it down?
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Hm I see I see, that is an extensive outline that's for posting! To some of the points you mentioned, I still have heard Sunnis claiming that they do not participate in/believe in the stoning, cutting off of hands, violence towards non-muslims etc.. especially when they are trying to defend the negatives of Islam. So I find it strange, why deny what is in your hadiths? Or at least why try to water it down?
Well one reason is the senior clerics do not tell them about these problematic issues you mentioned. Muslims do not hear of these things in Friday sermons as most clerics avoid them. They are told by their senior clerics that Islam is freedom and equality and justice etc. So it was only when extermist groups emerged during the 70s (because of the printing press and the availability of hadith literature to the masses) that many things became to appear. Also many critics of Islam in Western countries read those hadiths and started using them to attack Islam and Muslims are being told that these attacks on Islam are distorted.
Another reason is some Muslims believe that God knows best and maybe there are things that they may not understand but its the right thing. The lack of an alternative interpretation makes many of them defend Islam because they have no choice but to defend their religion. Many simply avoid religious discussions because they do not want to here negatives about their religion. Others simply hide their real feelings to themselves.
That is the reason extremism and terrorism is a very recent developent in Islam because in the past hadiths were not available to the public as they are now and many things hidden are coming out.
I myself only discovered many things becauuse of the internet. This discussion we are having can never take place in Ilamic countries because people like me will be censored and threatened with imprisonment or even worse. But in the net they can not stop us.
Their future is bleak as more and more people become aware that these sects like Sunnism and Shiasm are not what they claim to be. Knowledge is power as they say.
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Does sharia law come from the Quran or from the hadith or neither?
Combination of multiple sources including but not limited to Pagan, Jewish, Christian Myth etc.. but it all MUST Be aligned to the political agenda of those who promote it.
and when governments say that they want to "legitimize Islam" does that mean making Sharia the law of the land?
It mean the government want to give more power to the clerics / imam / mullah..
Or to put it in another way, it mean the clerics / imam / mullah are aiming for political power in that specific country.it seems like many arab/african countries such as mali, Somalia, sudan are big on Sharia law and actually enforce it. how can any muslim--whether shia or sunni or whoever- support Sharia law when, IMO, it seems to clearly be against human rights.
They've been brainwashed since they were a little toddler..
And those who dare to resist shall be put to death, because he/she dare to speak up against the Law of Ulema erghh I mean the Law of God! And that's a blasphemy!And by the way the Sunni and Shiites have totally different sets of Sharia... as both have totally different sets of ulema/imam/mullah/clerics.
I hear the argument sometimes that, oh those populations that practice stoning and other extreme commands of sharia law are the minority and that does not represent us, they have twisted the law...
Who is "us" in this case???
They haven't twisted the law, they have INVENTED their own law.
Apparently their God is so weak and need human help to enforce it. (read their God are imam/ulema/clerics)
The True God however doesn't need any help to enforce any of His law.. (e.g. Law of Gravity, Law of Return etc.. etc..)
And True God's law CANNOT be twisted by anybody..but these societies must be getting their ideas from somewhere if they are so steadfast upon their beliefs and act so willingingly upon them and claim that it is the divine law of God, so then what is their source?
Here's the sources
- Ancient Egyptian Pagan Belief & myth
- Pagan Arab Belief & myth
- Jewish belief & myth
- Christian belief & myth
- Hellenistic (Greek) belief & myth
- Ancient Persian belief & myth
And why do some Muslims deny the faults in Sharia law if it is from God and therefore nothing to be ashamed of? Or maybe all muslims are for Sharia afterall but don't want to admit it?
- They've been continuously brainwashed since they were little toddler.
- They've identified themselves with the so called Sharia.
"Sharia is our law, Sharia is true because it's from God"...
Now.. repeat the above sentence at least 10 times every day.. for the rest of your life.. and then you shall truly understand WHY they behave in such manner.
In similar manner as
- Die Hard Fans of Liverpool deny any faults in the football team
- The nationalist deny any faults made by his country / government.
- The rednecks deny any faults in the bible.
- The rednecks deny any faults in US government / policies
- The Pagans deny any faults in their tradition.
etc.. etc.. etc..
Salam / Peace
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Combination of multiple sources including but not limited to Pagan, Jewish, Christian Myth etc.. but it all MUST Be aligned to the political agenda of those who promote it.
It mean the government want to give more power to the clerics / imam / mullah..
Or to put it in another way, it mean the clerics / imam / mullah are aiming for political power in that specific country.They've been brainwashed since they were a little toddler..
And those who dare to resist shall be put to death, because he/she dare to speak up against the Law of Ulema erghh I mean the Law of God! And that's a blasphemy!And by the way the Sunni and Shiites have totally different sets of Sharia... as both have totally different sets of ulema/imam/mullah/clerics.
Who is "us" in this case???
They haven't twisted the law, they have INVENTED their own law.
Apparently their God is so weak and need human help to enforce it. (read their God are imam/ulema/clerics)
The True God however doesn't need any help to enforce any of His law.. (e.g. Law of Gravity, Law of Return etc.. etc..)
And True God's law CANNOT be twisted by anybody..
Here's the sources-
Ancient Egyptian Pagan Belief & myth
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Pagan Arab Belief & myth
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Jewish belief & myth
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Christian belief & myth
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Hellenistic (Greek) belief & myth
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Ancient Persian belief & myth
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They've been continuously brainwashed since they were little toddler.
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They've identified themselves with the so called Sharia.
"Sharia is our law, Sharia is true because it's from God"...
Now.. repeat the above sentence at least 10 times every day.. for the rest of your life.. and then you shall truly understand WHY they behave in such manner.
In similar manner as
- Die Hard Fans of Liverpool deny any faults in the football team
- The nationalist deny any faults made by his country / government.
- The rednecks deny any faults in the bible.
- The rednecks deny any faults in US government / policies
- The Pagans deny any faults in their tradition.
etc.. etc.. etc..
Salam / Peace
lol!. You nailed it hard. rotfl
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Hm I see I see, that is an extensive outline that's for posting! To some of the points you mentioned, I still have heard Sunnis claiming that they do not participate in/believe in the stoning, cutting off of hands, violence towards non-muslims etc.. especially when they are trying to defend the negatives of Islam. So I find it strange, why deny what is in your hadiths? Or at least why try to water it down?
The sunnis that say stoning, cutting off hands and violence towards muslims are not according to islam are all complete hypocrits. The have chosen to believe in hadith as a divine source but they deny the politically incorrect ones.
Next time you speak to a sunni or shia that say stoning is not according to islam, ask why they pick and choose which hadith to follow when they have all been proven to come from prophet Muhammed. The stoning hadith is just as strong as the niqab hadith and they are just as strong as women in the back of the mosque hadith.The taliban got it right. They are following each and every hadith, therefore not hypocrites. From the Taliban across to the other side to QA are a variety of sects that deny hadiths in a greater or lesser extent......and they are all hypocrites. Either you believe in all or you believe in none............as a divine source that is.
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If you are asking about Sunni/Shia Islam they get their shariah law almost exclusively from hadith. They might refer some of that laws to the Quran but usually they interpret those verses from hadiths and often they can abrogate (nullify) some of the verses of the Quran.
Quranic law and Sunni/Shia shariah law are two opposites. They have very little in common.
Very impressive list!
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Next time you speak to a sunni or shia that say stoning is not according to islam, ask why they pick and choose which hadith to follow when they have all been proven to come from prophet Muhammed. The stoning hadith is just as strong as the niqab hadith and they are just as strong as women in the back of the mosque hadith.
Well I still prefer a "hypocrite" (I woudl just say inconsistant or confused) who cites ahadith that Muhammad was good to his wives etc. to the straightforward Taliban... -
Well I still prefer a "hypocrite" (I woudl just say inconsistant or confused) who cites ahadith that Muhammad was good to his wives etc. to the straightforward Taliban...
LOL! Yeah I get what you mean.....you have a point, the taliban seem to have forgotten to read all the "good" hadith......But the fact is the book (hadith of bukhari and muslim and others) the inconsistant or confused reads it also mentions that prophet Muhammed says women are the majority in hell (for example). Yeah sure it is probably missed by a lot of people, but an imam has no excuse, he is not confused......if he was he shouldnt be an imam.
Would it be ok to pick and choose what surah to believe in? If the Quran and hadith holds the same divine power, then why is it ok to discard the hadith you do not care for but not the surah you dont agree with?
I actually asked my brother in law this question. He is a stern believer of sunnism. After that, he has stopped trying to convince me I am wrong and he is right, he pulled the ostrich tactic on me.
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Would it be ok to pick and choose what surah to believe in? If the Quran and hadith holds the same divine power, then why is it ok to discard the hadith you do not care for but not the surah you dont agree with?
Interesting point. Actually, the "nicer" sunni (there are really nice sunni) do exactly this As they are used to picking just the nice hadith and not the ugly ones, they also stick to the traditional interpretaion of the Quran but discard what they don't like (e.g. 434 they stick to the wife-beating interpretation, but as they know this should not be done, they qualify it as historical and of no relevance for today). -
Interesting point. Actually, the "nicer" sunni (there are really nice sunni) do exactly this As they are used to picking just the nice hadith and not the ugly ones, they also stick to the traditional interpretaion of the Quran but discard what they don't like (e.g. 434 they stick to the wife-beating interpretation, but as they know this should not be done, they qualify it as historical and of no relevance for today).
Maybe its because Sunni clerics do not talk about those issues often. Also wife beating is often interpreted in English translation as phyisical beating. Many do not know what the Arabic text actually says.
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If you are asking about Sunni/Shia Islam they get their shariah law almost exclusively from hadith. They might refer some of that laws to the Quran but usually they interpret those verses from hadiths and often they can abrogate (nullify) some of the verses of the Quran.
Quranic law and Sunni/Shia shariah law are two opposites. They have very little in common.
There is an outline drawn in the free-minds website that shows some of the major differences between the Quran and what Sunnis and Shias follow.
In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the Straight Path (6151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (9012-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war
In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times
In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (651, 654), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification
Its not everything but its a very good outline.
Your post seems slightly subjective.. firstly you should not differentiate the conflicting views as "Islam teaches" and "Sunni/Shia teaches".. It comes across that you imply Sunni/Shias are not practising Islam.. which is unjust.
Secondly sunni's do enforce the Iddah "cooling off" period.. I believe that the Iddah period CAN be negated if the marriage is considered invalid thus either one or both parties involved are committing zina, so the marriage is forgone to prevent haram.
Thirdly I think its slightly unfair to insinuate (which I assume you are as you lumped it with dress code) the prohibition of women praying whilst menstruating is somehow geared towards oppressing women.. The same principles apply to men when they bleed.. women just cannot make wudu. This does not prevent the woman from connecting with Allah SWT through other means like making dua, dhikr, reciting etc etc.
Lastly.. circumcision.. correct me if I am wrong bu is this not considered sunnah and is just recommended by Sunnis? Further circumcision has been scientifically proven to have a variety of health benefits which explains why it is recommended.
Forgive me if I offend and correct me if I am wrong
AllahuAlaam.
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Interesting point. Actually, the "nicer" sunni (there are really nice sunni) do exactly this As they are used to picking just the nice hadith and not the ugly ones, they also stick to the traditional interpretaion of the Quran but discard what they don't like (e.g. 434 they stick to the wife-beating interpretation, but as they know this should not be done, they qualify it as historical and of no relevance for today).
My understanding is reliable hadith only say it is permissable to hit your wife with a miswak and you cannot draw blood. I don't think mainstream sunni's, certainly not hanafi or sha'fi believe in hadith that permits any physical harm to be inflicted to the wife.
I did always have issue with the answer the the paedophile question... Sunni's will ALWAYS meet this with socio-cultural relativism.. yet when addressing innumerable other issues such as... interest for example.. you are met with dogmatic responses where cultural relativism is suddenly thrown out the window...
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Lastly.. circumcision.. correct me if I am wrong bu is this not considered sunnah and is just recommended by Sunnis? Further circumcision has been scientifically proven to have a variety of health benefits which explains why it is recommended.
Forgive me if I offend and correct me if I am wrong
AllahuAlaam.
This is just one of many articles out there with current information on circumcision. Basically, there are some benefits to circumcision, but one can attain the same level of health with proper hygiene. There are almost NO extra benefits to being circumcised if the uncircumcised male regularly cleans himself. The only benefits proven are a lower risk of urinary tract infections and a rare form of penile cancer, but the risk is already minimal for uncircumcised males in both areas.
The current consensus among most doctors is that the benefits no longer outweigh the risks in modern society with access to regular bathing. The AAP has changed it's official stance to advise against circumcision without a valid medical reason and the WHO only recommends it in areas that are being hit hard by AIDS (although almost every research study out there says that it doesn't even help there, either, and with the use of condoms, the risk is the same).
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This is just one of many articles out there with current information on circumcision. Basically, there are some benefits to circumcision, but one can attain the same level of health with proper hygiene. There are almost NO extra benefits to being circumcised if the uncircumcised male regularly cleans himself. The only benefits proven are a lower risk of urinary tract infections and a rare form of penile cancer, but the risk is already minimal for uncircumcised males in both areas.
The current consensus among most doctors is that the benefits no longer outweigh the risks in modern society with access to regular bathing. The AAP has changed it's official stance to advise against circumcision without a valid medical reason and the WHO only recommends it in areas that are being hit hard by AIDS (although almost every research study out there says that it doesn't even help there, either, and with the use of condoms, the risk is the same).
Thank you for your alternate view on this.. look I am not particularly well-read on this matter and inshaAllah I will read a few of these articles you talk about.
I am a convert who adopted the hanafi madhab upon conversion.. and am not circumcised nor was it ever seriously recommended that I did, by a sheikh or anyone close enough to me to talk about such a thing.So I guess irrespective of the medical cost/benefits which appear to be somewhat ambiguous.. my point is that it is just viewed as sunnah.. it is not haram if you do not.
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Your post seems slightly subjective.. firstly you should not differentiate the conflicting views as "Islam teaches" and "Sunni/Shia teaches".. It comes across that you imply Sunni/Shias are not practising Islam.. which is unjust.
islam teaches??
Even the sentence does not make any sense..
Does honest teaches? polite teaches? kind teaches?Some sunnis/shiites/christians/jews/agnostics/ahmadis/taoists/buddhist etc.. etc... are moslems and some are not..
Thirdly I think its slightly unfair to insinuate (which I assume you are as you lumped it with dress code) the prohibition of women praying whilst menstruating is somehow geared towards oppressing women.. The same principles apply to men when they bleed.. women just cannot make wudu. This does not prevent the woman from connecting with Allah SWT through other means like making dua, dhikr, reciting etc etc.
This is the weirdest tradition ever, originated from Pagan Arabs culture which still alive and well up until today.
Munaf (Arabic ‎ was a pre-Islamic deity in Mecca when the residents were still polytheists. The statue of Munaf was caressed by women, but when they had their periods they were not allowed to near it
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manaf_%28deity%29Lastly.. circumcision.. correct me if I am wrong bu is this not considered sunnah and is just recommended by Sunnis? Further circumcision has been scientifically proven to have a variety of health benefits which explains why it is recommended
Started by Abraham apparently...
This video shows how this strange tradition get started.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PdAhZjuHbU -
I am a convert who adopted the hanafi madhab upon conversion.. and am not circumcised nor was it ever seriously recommended that I did, by a sheikh or anyone close enough to me to talk about such a thing.
By the way, I'm circumcised, yet I think this (odd) tradition has nothing to do / irrelevant with islam or being a muslim.
Feel free to be circumcised if you want to, but it doesn't really matter...The only 'benefit' of being circumcised that I have experienced so far is only when you find a hot jewish girl you can say to her that you're 'kosher' enough for her to marry.. rotfl rotfl
Salam / Peace