Does the Quran authorize man made laws ?
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I think the Qur'an is more about principles than about laws. If laws made by humans keep to quranic principles they should be al right, but what is wrong, absolutely always wrong is to put to the laws made by human de label of divine and say that it is ordered or prohibited by God. Human laws can be done and undone as we see fit. Not God laws. So what should not be admissible is to attribute to God what is not God's, which si why hadith is perfectly our of bounds when it is attempted to derive necessary laws from them.
Salaam
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Cone to think of it, you're probably right. Can you think of any verses that would verify "Common sense" laws though?
Huruf's post is pretty much how I see it, too. The principle that human life is sacred is firmly established in the Quran. We're free to make any human laws that are based on honoring that principle, to protect human life from reckless disregard, as the need arises. For example, where I live the speed limit in a school zone is 15 mph, but the speed limit on the freeway is no less than 40. Two completely opposite laws, but both are based on the principle of protecting life and are therefore both fine and dandy. The Quran didn't need to warn us of all possible scenarios where we'd need different laws because the foundations of principle are strong enough to ensure safety and freedom from arbitrariness.
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All of this is due to heavy influence from "Judaism", where they see everything written in the Torah as "God's Law".
There are lot of things which is not covered in the Quran (or Torah) some of them are
- Law on Jungle/Forest preservation.. (as perhaps most Arabs & Jews never seen any jungle in their entire life)
- Law / regulation on River / Waterway preservation (What the heck is river??? We only have Wadi!)
- Law on the preservation of Polar bear natural habitat (Polar bear?? What the heck is that!)
etc.. etc..
Salam / Peace
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Salam brother Jafar, what exactly do you mean by mentioning the lack of explanations on such topics?
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Quran was not meant to be a 'be all end all' human law to be issued and enforced by all human.
Salam / Peace
Oh, but then what is Quran?
Salamun Alayk
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Oh, but then what is Quran?
Salamun Alayk
Read the beginning of chapter 2..
Thus to clearly answer your question, no the Quran cannot authorize and or de-authorize man authored regulation or law.
Since Quran is a dead matter.The quality of regulation or law should be discussed and debated by human for further refining or update and it shall be authorized or de-authorized by the consensus of people who are affected by the law. (Country/State/District population)
Example
Polar bear population is in danger to be extinct -> We need to issue regulation / law to guard Polar Bear's natural habitat
-- few years later --
Polar bear now has become extinct -> Cancel the Law on Polar Bear Natural Reservation it's not required anymore, and the law has failed it's objective.Salam / Peace
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Read the beginning of chapter 2..
Thus to clearly answer your question, no the Quran cannot authorize and or de-authorize man authored regulation or law.
Since Quran is a dead matter.The quality of regulation or law should be discussed and debated by human for further refining or update and it shall be authorized or de-authorized by the consensus of people who are affected by the law. (Country/State/District population)
Example
Polar bear population is in danger to be extinct -> We need to issue regulation / law to guard Polar Bear's natural habitat
-- few years later --
Polar bear now has become extinct -> Cancel the Law on Polar Bear Natural Reservation it's not required anymore, and the law has failed it's objective.Salam / Peace
Hmm, thanks.
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You can not change or add to Gods laws (religious law). I can't give a fatwa legalizing idol worship and banning charity. I can't add a law making it mandatory for women to cover their faces and add lobsters to the list of unlawful food. This we are not authorized to do. But we can have societal laws within the limits. Example, speed limits, gun laws, etc. It's common sense but there are verses in Quran to back this up. I'll find them later.
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You can not change or add to Gods laws (religious law). I can't give a fatwa legalizing idol worship and banning charity. I can't add a law making it mandatory for women to cover their faces and add lobsters to the list of unlawful food. This we are not authorized to do. But we can have societal laws within the limits. Example, speed limits, gun laws, etc. It's common sense but there are verses in Quran to back this up. I'll find them later.
The religious / religion law is FAKE.
You (or any other people) certainly CAN give opinion / set law LEGALIZING idol worship (to yourselves as the idol), banning charity (to somebody outside your religion/sect/gangs) , female genital mutilation, hands mutilation, graft and corruption (especially to yourselves or your own gangs) and murder to those who does not share your opinion and dare to oppose your authority.
The True God's Law does not need any help from human for enforcement.
The True God's Law never fails and forcefully binding.
The True God's Law are often being referred by human as "the law of nature".Salam / Peace
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Jafar,
Be clear when you say that religious law is fake. What do you mean and what are your sources? It's clear that God has laid out laws for us in Quran. We are clearly told what is unlawful and what is lawful. Of the things not mentioned, we can decide by mutual consultation.And those who have responded to their Lord, and they hold the bond, and their affairs are conducted by mutual consultation among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.
And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe "This is lawful and that is unlawful;" that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.
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Salam brother Aamer, I believe what brother Jafar is saying is that we as humans have a free will to do what we want. Based on that, we have the capability to make up our own laws, and implement them as well. As far as God's Law is concerned, in its true sense it refers to the Laws of Nature, the laws of cause and affect, the laws of chemistry, the laws of physics, the laws of matter etc. As far as the Quran is concerned, that is a guidance, admonition, clear speech, and remembrance to those who want to pay heed, and be cautious of God, those who believe, and those want to strive for good. Based upon that, people can use the Quran as a source for guidance and make laws accordingly. But that does not mean that other laws outside of Quran cannot be made, simply because we humans have the will to do that. Or at least that is what I understood from his posts ;D
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Jafar, are you an anarchist? Because God never sanctioned government confiscation of wealth to pay for state services. Nor did He say anything about bestiality.
So ???????
It doesn't mean that we should not make a regulation about it??
I can add to your list, the polar bear law (which I've mentioned above), the river flow conservation law, nuclear power law etc.. etc..Fallen Angel, really summed up very well.
RELIGION is fake, thus as consequences RELIGIOUS LAW is fake, meanings is not GOD'S LAW.
GOD'S LAW doesn't need any help of human for enforcement.It's GOD'S LAW that human CAN murder one another.
It's GOD'S LAW that human shall earn what they deserve (Law of return a.k.a Karmic Law)Thus God RECOMMEND for human to NOT murder one another, if the human are wishing for a good life.
Based on the above principle, a society can enforce a law / regulation to avoid the widespread of murder and killing.
The way society design and enforce such law might be different..
Thus the quality of how such law really effective might be varied as well..
And it should be continuously discussed, agreed, refined and changed in order for the law to be effective.Nonetheless a murderer shall 'earn what he deserves' regardless of human regulation / law, this is due to GOD'S LAW.
Example
A society might enforce "Criminal Law" limited to "Within his/her own group".
"Thou shall not murder,rape, rob any the member of your tribe/religion/state/country"
"However you are allowed to murder,rape, rob those who are not member of your own tribe/religion/state/country".Another example
"Muslim shall not murder another Muslim" which implies "Muslim can murder an infidel".
or
"Jews shall not murder another Jew" which implies "Jews can murder a non Jew"The society are free to enforce such (unjust/ridiculous) law, and claim that such law is "God's Law".
But certainly they will 'earn what they deserves'... and cannot escape the GOD'S LAW of Karma/Return as it is always in effect.Thus it's a falsehood for a human to claim that 'his law' is God's law and avoid critics or debates and enforce his opinion upon others..
Every human's law should be discussed and agreed upon before being enforced in the society.
And it should have a clear objective and reasoning to be widely accepted and agreed by the society.The quality of law within specific society can be analyzed by 'how well' such society is progressing..
Salam / Peace
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Peace brother Jafar,
Glad to hear that I summed your understanding up very well, its a relief to hear that I didn't attribute any lie to anyone by mistake. I would like to add to your understanding, regarding the falsity of 'Religious Law', by simply giving the example of so many sects and "Islamic" rules that have passed and still exist. Each "Islamic" scholar, or to be precise, each Mufti who passes a law by his own understanding of Quran and other sources, and wants the government to implement it, says that what his opinion is, is the opinion of God and religion. This perception is completely false, because it is not God's Law which he wants to implement, but his OWN UNDERSTANDING of WHAT HE BELIEVES IS SENT BY GOD which he wants to impose. A good example of this is the apostasy law, the Quran says that no soul shall be killed except for another soul, or for spreading corruption in the land, now people say that this 'corruption in the land' refers to becoming an apostate, or propagating unislamic beliefs, hence, what they say is BASED UPON THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S WORDS, but they present it as if this IS what God says, and give it a label of 'Religious Law'.
There is no such thing as religious government, or religious law, why? Because what may be religious law to person A, may not be necessarily religious to person B. Because what one person views, or a group of people view, as religious law is more or less his/their own understanding of religion. A worldly example of this is the sentence "I like him" written on a piece of paper.
Now Person A may read it as I like him, and say that the author means 'I do, maybe you don't!'
Person B may read it as I like him, and say that the author means 'I only like him, nothing more, nothing less'
Person C may read it as I like him, and say that the author means 'Only he is who I like, I don't like anyone else'Now all three of these persons believe what they think is right, and will go on propagating their understanding of the author's words as the author's intention. But this is where the mistake lies.
Then the question arises, how to devise the proper understanding? How to be sure we are correct? The thing is, there are many verses like 548 that show that humans are bound to have disputes, but then we have verses that focus on mutual consents and following the best of the saying, and then like you said, we have the Natural Laws of God, the Karmic Law etc. and even in the Quran we see God promising certain things as a result of others, hence, according to MY understanding, we should refer to the Quran as a source of guidance, and according to circumstances, discuss, and work hard to ensure that using His guidance, we devise the understanding that is most suitable to our conditions at the moment. Looking at the results of our efforts, it can be determined whether what we are doing is good or bad. What do you think?
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So ???????
It doesn't mean that we should not make a regulation about it??
I can add to your list, the polar bear law (which I've mentioned above), the river flow conservation law, nuclear power law etc.. etc..Fallen Angel, really summed up very well.
RELIGION is fake, thus as consequences RELIGIOUS LAW is fake, meanings is not GOD'S LAW.
GOD'S LAW doesn't need any help of human for enforcement.POLITICS is fake, thus as consequences POLITICAL LAW is fake, as it's not GOD'S LAW.
I never disputed that murder should be kept illegal. But we have thousands of laws and regulations not sanctioned by the Qur'an.
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POLITICS is fake, thus as consequences POLITICAL LAW is fake, as it's not GOD'S LAW.
Of course POLITICAL LAW is NOT GOD'S LAW..
Yet that doesn't necessarily mean that it's all bad or evil as well..
I never disputed that murder should be kept illegal. But we have thousands of laws and regulations not sanctioned by the Qur'an.
But we cannot that all of those regulations are ALL BAD or EVIL.
Some might be good some might be bad some might be half-good, third quarter good etc...
Every law should be judged case by case.
And refine (or abolish)or create a new one if it's not good or met it's objective or doesn't have any clear objective or sometime the objective itself is bad / evil.Salam / Peace
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Then the question arises, how to devise the proper understanding? How to be sure we are correct? The thing is, there are many verses like 548 that show that humans are bound to have disputes, but then we have verses that focus on mutual consents and following the best of the saying, and then like you said, we have the Natural Laws of God, the Karmic Law etc. and even in the Quran we see God promising certain things as a result of others, hence, according to MY understanding, we should refer to the Quran as a source of guidance, and according to circumstances, discuss, and work hard to ensure that using His guidance, we devise the understanding that is most suitable to our conditions at the moment. Looking at the results of our efforts, it can be determined whether what we are doing is good or bad. What do you think?
Yes I agree..
And furthermore law should be made to provide "JUSTICE" and JUSTICE is for ALL.
Another basic principle which lay the foundation of JUSTICE is Empathy.
Empathy is the capability to see what other people see or to put your shoe in somebody else's shoe.Slavery.. is it Just?
What if you're the slave?? How would you like to be treated?Whipping women... is it just?
What if you're a woman? How would you like to be treated?Robbing rich people / foreigner / people outside your group is it just?
What if you're a rich people / foreigner / people outside your group? How would you like to be treated?Massacre and burn the entire village of your enemy after you won the war is it just?
What if you're 'your enemy'? How would you like to be treated?etc.. etc.. etc..
Salam / Peace
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Yes I agree..
And furthermore law should be made to provide "JUSTICE" and JUSTICE is for ALL.
Another basic principle which lay the foundation of JUSTICE is Empathy.
Empathy is the capability to see what other people see or to put your shoe in somebody else's shoe.Slavery.. is it Just?
What if you're the slave?? How would you like to be treated?Whipping women... is it just?
What if you're a woman? How would you like to be treated?Robbing rich people / foreigner / people outside your group is it just?
What if you're a rich people / foreigner / people outside your group? How would you like to be treated?Massacre and burn the entire village of your enemy after you won the war is it just?
What if you're 'your enemy'? How would you like to be treated?etc.. etc.. etc..
Salam / Peace
Salam,
Exactly, it's good to see that we are able to understand each other, discussing such topics through text alone and then being able to comprehend what the other guy has written is a miracle on its own.