Tired of living in a closet
-
Peace Pixel,
@Shirley Yes I live in Egypt actually, im aware of the dangers involved if people were to know I am a quranist. You can see why im frustrated .
Firstly, welcome to the forum
Secondly, the dangers are actually not that bad in Egypt. In fact, people who follow Quran alone are the fastest growing group in Egypt and the trend has accelerated since the so-called Islamists took power. Many years ago I was the only Egyptian I personally know with that view . Now at least one out of every five Egyptians I talk to rejects Hadiths to one extent or another. Being in Egypt you are part of this historic shift.
Egyptians have been revolting and fascist rulers have been using corrupt clergy and tyrannical Sunni dogma to quell revolt long before our time. Just look at how Mohamed Ali thwarted the Egyptian revolution of 1809 by conspiring with the clergy of Al Azhar against Omar Makram. Similarly, Nasser used the Brotherhood to quell the popular demonstrations against him demanding restoration of democracy in 1954. So the only way to save the fascist system was to give it a religious face since most Egyptians blindly follow the clergy. The military-religious alliance as represented by ?Magles Aldefa3 Alwatany? (the real ruler of Egypt not the clown Morsi) was the way to subdue the Egyptian revolution and achieve stability. However, the fascist regime didn't anticipate the following
-
By putting the religious fascists in power in a country that doesn?t have oil and has so many economic and social problems that require real intelligent solutions, the imaginary ideal of the slogan ?Islam is the Solution? proved to be a measurable real world miserable failure. This is why now the majority of Egyptians are disillusioned with the religious establishment as a whole and this made them start to question the sanctity of the clergy and established dogma. I personally know many people who just a few months ago were pro-Brotherhood and pro-Wahabis and who are now completely against them.
-
With the foolish Sunni theocrats in power, everyone started loudly hearing their idiotic Hadith-based nonsense such as breastfeeding of adults, drinking animal urine, marrying and raping children, and all sorts of stupidities. So now when someone tells you how come you don?t believe in Hadith, you can give all those examples that everyone knows and then tell them that if they believe in such crap, they should be happy with the Brotherhood and shouldn?t complain.
-
Egyptians are naturally fun-loving amazingly creative people who in time of hardship express their frustration with jokes. By getting involved in politics and taking power, the so-called Islamists turned themselves into easy targets for this natural Egyptian sarcasm. This is why Bassem Youssef in a few months succeeded in doing more damage to the Islamists than 30 years of Mubarak iron fist. In fact, the rapid deterioration of the sanctity of Sunni clergy in the past few months is UNPRECEDENTED IN HISTORY.
-
Egypt has a compartmentalized culture and this can be seen in the widespread focus on ritual and superficial appearances instead of conduct. Therefore it is not uncommon in Egypt, for example, to find even hardcore criminals performing the rituals in the Mosque and then going back to doing their crimes. People who are deeply compartmentalized lose touch with both reason and conscious and will exhibit many social ills such as low work ethic and dishonesty despite being religiously conservative. Compartmentalization had allowed these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit interaction between separate compartmentalized self states. This compartmentalization was broken, perhaps irreversibly, when theocratic rule became the regime and caused the public beliefs about an imaginary theocratic ideal to conflict with the measurable reality of catastrophic government failure.
This brings me to an important point about the Sunnis real underlying motives. Most Egyptians (even liberals who hate so-called Islamists) hypocritically defend Hadiths because they worry about their rituals (and thus about their comfortable compartmentalized state) with the loss of Hadiths. This is why their first question is usually how you will do the rituals without Hadiths. In my opinion, the battle of Hadiths is already being won and we should start planning for the next phase, which is the alleged rituals.
Instead of subduing the revolution and maintaining the fascist regime, by bringing religion into the mix, the fascist military-clergy alliance has created the situation where the only way for the revolution to succeed it must also become a religious revolution. I think that we are fast heading into a condition that resembles Europe before the end of the dark ages and the protestant religious revolution. The internet is playing the role of the printing press and the Egyptian jokes that are killing the sanctity of the clergy are playing the role of the plague that killed half of the clergy of the dark ages and forced commoners to find out about religion for themselves.
And yes I know arabic, a great deal but its not perfect or very polished. Its a little choppy when i talk but I can read and write and I went to an egyptian school and they teach you grammar so i have a good idea.
I was actually thinking about going to a masjid and take quran memorization sessons, for myself and so I can respond to critics or questions. Personally I'd like to so I can better understand the Quran if I have it on (in) my mind more often and it would push me to decipher it and read more into it as I memorize bit by bit.Since you can read Arabic, the following book presents the ?rituals? from the quran?s perspective and thus renders Hadiths irrelevant to begin with. You can download it from this site
Please let me know what you think.
Peace,
Ayman
-
-
Peace be upon you
Let's see if Quran tells us if it is forbidden to remain married to someone who is putting partners with God?
423-24
Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin ; and the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and to have two sisters at one and the same time - but what is past is past25 for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
And all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.According to 424 all married women are forbidden to a man. However, lawful to you are all women beyond these (in other words all unmarried women are lawful for marriage whether they are believers or not).
243
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or one who is an idolatress. And the adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or an idolater. And this has been forbidden for the believers.According to 243 adulterer or an idolater is forbidden for the believers. In other words a woman who is a believer can not marry or remained married a man who is an idolater (polytheist), someone who puts partners with God.
It seems that the verses 423 and 243 are contradicting each other. Because according to 423 a person can marry anyone as long as she is unmarried. But according to to 243 a believer (whether male or female) can not marry an idolater (polytheist). Why do the message in these two verses contradict eachother? Because one or both of the verses are mistranslated. There is no other logical explanation.
I think 243 is just a conituation of commands, the specifics. Like the verses that discourage alcohol, then later forbids it. 424 is a general command terms of social conditions for marriage. 243 is for the spiritual/deed conditions.
-
I know how you feel. I used to be so scared at first, and this is in the US. It is a major thing coming out in a traditional country. I have heard that the family of Ahmed Subhy Mansour was persecuted during mubarak's rein.
I think you should be quite and learn as much as you can, and if you feel you have learned enough and on a basis, then you could consider coming out. Otherwise, try to keep in touch online. Or try maybe to move/emigrate.
In any case, keep trying to learn, and yes if you can, try to memorize the Quran, especially the verses about Quran alone, preaching with it, and not setting up idols. Learn, knowledge is power jedi
-
All the "Muslim" countries are doomed to fail in any system other than a dictatorship. Democracy won't work in those countries because the majority of the people are ignorant and incapable of using logic. Only force works against ignorance. Sunni/Shi'ite religion promotes ignorance. The people either want to be fanatic "Islamists" (whatever the hell that means) or they want to go in the complete opposite direction and remove religion altogether. There is no balance. Because the sectarian Muslim way of life is unnatural. Unnatural conditions lead to moral deviance. Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not speaking about each individual. I'm speaking about those societies as a whole. That's just my opinion based on all the "Muslim" countries I've visited.
I agree with you but not on the cause. Its not ignorance and the inablity to use logic for me. Many of the people there want democracy and more freedoms. But they can not foresake Islam also. They want democracy and Shariah law at the same time. They want an Islam that is compatible with a free democracy where all citizens are equal. But they want to believe that this is compatible with Islam and Shariah law.
If you look at the Islamist involved in the new post revolution Arab politics like Nahda party of Tunisia and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt they all claim they believe in a free democracy where all citizens have equal rights regardless of race, gender and ideology. But they are all following the Sunni/Shia Islam. They do not have, or rather, they do not know of any other Islam. Hence the clash between Islam and democracy since Sunni/Shia Islam was not designed for a free democracy. Sooner or later this clash will lead to a need for change since Arab societies are not going to give up on modernity.
And thats when we come in. Where there is a demand there will be a supply.
-
I agree with you but not on the cause. Its not ignorance and the inablity to use logic for me. Many of the people there want democracy and more freedoms. But they can not foresake Islam also. They want democracy and Shariah law at the same time. They want an Islam that is compatible with a free democracy where all citizens are equal. But they want to believe that this is compatible with Islam and Shariah law.
If you look at the Islamist involved in the new post revolution Arab politics like Nahda party of Tunisia and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt they all claim they believe in a free democracy where all citizens have equal rights regardless of race, gender and ideology. But they are all following the Sunni/Shia Islam. They do not have, or rather, they do not know of any other Islam. Hence the clash between Islam and democracy since Sunni/Shia Islam was not designed for a free democracy. Sooner or later this clash will lead to a need for change since Arab societies are not going to give up on modernity.
And thats when we come in. Where there is a demand there will be a supply.
There is merit in what you say. I wouldn't be sure it is 100% right, but it is right. I think that the brotherhood is simplyu politicians like in so many democracies and they use the religion for THEIR political aims and they have vested interests in keeping islam as just "their" islam and sharia law, because that is the islam that serves them They wouldn't want any other. But also, and this you say, they know they cannot push too hard, because people do want "democracy", that is, not to be abused.
May God make your forecasts right, that the tide will turn and the peoples turn to real values and truth.
Salaam
-
There is merit in what you say. I wouldn't be sure it is 100% right, but it is right. I think that the brotherhood is simplyu politicians like in so many democracies and they use the religion for THEIR political aims and they have vested interests in keeping islam as just "their" islam and sharia law, because that is the islam that serves them They wouldn't want any other. But also, and this you say, they know they cannot push too hard, because people do want "democracy", that is, not to be abused.
May God make your forecasts right, that the tide will turn and the peoples turn to real values and truth.
Salaam
Yes I believe the tide will turn whether the Muslim masses like it or not. Al Shafi used the "progressive" argument against why we can not follow the Quran alone. He basically said there will be too much diversity which he saw as division and that societies will be too liberal and free since the Quran allows different interpretation. This may have been a problem in 9th century Middle East but this is certainly an asset in 21 century Middle East. The Sunnah after all came to prevent afree and progressive society. The dictator who used to support the Sunnah is now gone. Mind you, everyday the trend is moving towards more freedom and individualism. There is no stopping this. Global communication will only increase. More and more people will be eductated. Societies will be more and more urban. More cosmopolitan. There is no way to stop this. More and more Sunni/Shia Islam will look outdated and out of step and in the wrong side of history. They have no outlet for change or reform since they are designed to resist that.
Right now the only things standing in the way on Muslim societies is Shariah law. The salafi rise will not decline. There will always be an opposite push and continous clash. Sooner than later this will lead to an unbearable situation. We won't have to go anywhere. The masses will come to us. Initially reluctantly. Like many former Sunnis who come to this forum. There is an initial hesitance as they try to maintain a conservative agenda. Conservatism by its very nature is resistant to change. There is a fear of freedom and change. This is not long lasting though. Taboos are made of glass.
-
Mario--I do not mind feeling alone as you do; infact I prefer to be by myself. People annoy me too much lol. The difference with me is I feel alone and I do not feel as if God is always there. It is like, theoretically I believe He is there because he is suppose to be everywhere all the time, but I do not feel as if is directly connected to me. It as if my phone rings, and I answer it, but the person on the line does not say hello---but you do not hear the the dial tone so you know someone is there. And I don't mean that literally I am expecting God to speak to me, but...as it has been discussed on this f?rum...I feel like He is just there to watch everything and that is all. I do not feel I have a unique relationship with him, or I feel the relationship is 1-sided and I don't hear anything back. I dont know if that makes sense. I don't mind it I suppose, but I just wonder how you said that you are never alone and God is always with you...I don't think I have felt that before.
I have been busy lately. Hence the late reply.
I can relate to what you are saying. I can't remember that I have said, in my last post, that I never feel alone. As a human being, I will off course feel alone if there are periods when I don't have contact with anyone. But I very rarely feel alone. That was my point. I think that feeling alone is related to God-conciousness. It seems that the more we are concious of God, the less we will feel alone. It seems that being concious of God is based on how far someone has reached in his or her spiritual journey. It appears that there are different levels of God-conciousness.
From my experience these things will make us more concious of the creator
Spreading the message When we strive to create islamic reform by spreading knowledge about islam and the quran we will become more concious of our creator. Our level of belief will increase and we will become better muslims. There is an old saying "As you sow so shall you reap." For example, if you sow the seed of an apple, you will get an apple tree. So, if you sow the seed of an apple you will only get apples. You can not sow the seed of an apple an expect to get bananas. If you want bananas you have to spread the seed of a banana. If you want to increase your level of belief and become a more convinced muslim, you must spread knowledge about islam and the quran. By spreading knowledge about islam and the quran, knowledge that literally can transform the minds of people, you will get positive results from your actions. "You become what you do." What you throw out in the universe will come back to you. As an example, I love sports and I especially love soccer. But If I use all of my spare time spreading information about soccer, through a website or through youtube videos, it will not benefit me spiritually. Perhaps if I dedicate my life to sports, I will follow my personal desire. If I follow my personal desire two things will happen. My level of belief will not increase (I will not become a better muslim) and I might be led astray from the straight path. So therefore I choose to have sports as an interest, but not as a way of life. Islam is "the way of life" I have adopted. By the way, I consider islam as a "way of life", not as a religion. This view is not based on a personal opinion, but it is based on the Quran. The most important thing in my life is to continue to walk in the path I have been leaded to. As a servant of God, my duty is to serve the creator. By serving the creator, I will benefit my brothers and sisters around the world. I am not here on this planet to only benefit me.I think that personal desires, personal gain, and self-interest will hinder us from reaching further in our spiritual journey.
-
Seeking knowledge When we increase our knowledge, we will see God's signs in nature and within our self. Then we will become more concious of God. It is is important that we seek knowledge which is related to islam and the quran. For example, if I only seek information about soccer, it will not benefit me spiritually. My level of belief will not increase, and I will not become. If I want my level of belief to increase and if I want become a better muslim, then I should seek knowledge about islam and study the quran. "You become what you read."
-
Doing good deeds When we help others and make their lives better, our own lives will become better and we will become more concious of our creator. A true believer is not only a teacher, but he or she is also a doer. What we do counts more than what we say. Deeds are more powerful than words. Actually someones deeds reveal everything about who they are. Words can be deceptive. If we want to know the character of a man or a woman, and know how sincere he or she is, we must look at his or her deeds. If someone spreads knowledge about islam and the quran, but does not do any good deeds she will not reach her full potential. If however, someone spreads knowledge about islam and the quran, and also does good deeds, her contributions will become a full circle. If she spreads knowledge about islam and the quran and goes to poor country in africa or asia to build a school, an orphanage or a hospital then she is contributing fully to the state of mankind. Action is the most powerful argument on earth. No one can argue against deeds. Throughout history, many politicians have spoken about peace but started wars. Their words were good, but their deeds were evil. A man who speak good words but do bad deeds is not a good man. Only a man who does good deeds is a good man.
"When deeds speak, words are nothing."
- African Proverb
Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the good words, and He elevates the good deed. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail. Quran 3510
-
-
I have been busy lately. Hence the late reply.
I can relate to what you are saying. I can't remember that I have said, in my last post, that I never feel alone. As a human being, I will off course feel alone if there are periods when I don't have contact with anyone. But I very rarely feel alone. That was my point. I think that feeling alone is related to God-conciousness. It seems that the more we are concious of God, the less we will feel alone. It seems that being concious of God is based on how far someone has reached in his or her spiritual journey. It appears that there are different levels of God-conciousness.
From my experience these things will make us more concious of the creator
Spreading the message When we strive to create islamic reform by spreading knowledge about islam and the quran we will become more concious of our creator. Our level of belief will increase and we will become better muslims. There is an old saying "As you sow so shall you reap." For example, if you sow the seed of an apple, you will get an apple tree. So, if you sow the seed of an apple you will only get apples. You can not sow the seed of an apple an expect to get bananas. If you want bananas you have to spread the seed of a banana. If you want to increase your level of belief and become a more convinced muslim, you must spread knowledge about islam and the quran. By spreading knowledge about islam and the quran, knowledge that literally can transform the minds of people, you will get positive results from your actions. "You become what you do." What you throw out in the universe will come back to you. As an example, I love sports and I especially love soccer. But If I use all of my spare time spreading information about soccer, through a website or through youtube videos, it will not benefit me spiritually. Perhaps if I dedicate my life to sports, I will follow my personal desire. If I follow my personal desire two things will happen. My level of belief will not increase (I will not become a better muslim) and I might be led astray from the straight path. So therefore I choose to have sports as an interest, but not as a way of life. Islam is "the way of life" I have adopted. By the way, I consider islam as a "way of life", not as a religion. This view is not based on a personal opinion, but it is based on the Quran. The most important thing in my life is to continue to walk in the path I have been leaded to. As a servant of God, my duty is to serve the creator. By serving the creator, I will benefit my brothers and sisters around the world. I am not here on this planet to only benefit me.I think that personal desires, personal gain, and self-interest will hinder us from reaching further in our spiritual journey.
-
Seeking knowledge When we increase our knowledge, we will see God's signs in nature and within our self. Then we will become more concious of God. It is is important that we seek knowledge which is related to islam and the quran. For example, if I only seek information about soccer, it will not benefit me spiritually. My level of belief will not increase, and I will not become. If I want my level of belief to increase and if I want become a better muslim, then I should seek knowledge about islam and study the quran. "You become what you read."
-
Doing good deeds When we help others and make their lives better, our own lives will become better and we will become more concious of our creator. A true believer is not only a teacher, but he or she is also a doer. What we do counts more than what we say. Deeds are more powerful than words. Actually someones deeds reveal everything about who they are. Words can be deceptive. If we want to know the character of a man or a woman, and know how sincere he or she is, we must look at his or her deeds. If someone spreads knowledge about islam and the quran, but does not do any good deeds she will not reach her full potential. If however, someone spreads knowledge about islam and the quran, and also does good deeds, her contributions will become a full circle. If she spreads knowledge about islam and the quran and goes to poor country in africa or asia to build a school, an orphanage or a hospital then she is contributing fully to the state of mankind. Action is the most powerful argument on earth. No one can argue against deeds. Throughout history, many politicians have spoken about peace but started wars. Their words were good, but their deeds were evil. A man who speak good words but do bad deeds is not a good man. Only a man who does good deeds is a good man.
"When deeds speak, words are nothing."
- African Proverb
Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the good words, and He elevates the good deed. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail. Quran 3510
Beautiful .
-
-
Maybe it is some relief to know that the Prophets suffered too, like Ibrahim had a father who believed in idols and he could never convert him even despite praying, and Nuh had a son who disbelieved and a wife who was noted as not a good lady. Musa was surrounded by bad people, even among those he was trying to help. In the Bible, Job's friends all betrayed him and blamed him for his illness. Jesus had almost no one either, and on and on. It seems to be made that way, that the sincere are few and far between and the majority are always believing silly things.
For me, it isn't so much about relief noting that, but accepting the way reality is and coming to terms with it. Its undoubtedly hateful, and you're not wrong to feel bad about a bad situation, but such were the situations in the past too
2214
do you think that you could enter paradise without having suffered like those who passed away before you? Misfortune and hardship befell them, and so shaken were they that the apostle, and the believers with him, would exclaim, "When will God's succour come?" Oh, verily, God's succour is near!Someday you might move out of the closet, and into a spacious cupboard or pantry.