33:59 -> NISA' can NOT include ALL women
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Quran 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the
believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer
garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and
harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.Here God is sending a commandment to our prophet for
- his wives
- his daughters
- the nisa'i of the believers
Lets assume that nisa means all (mature) women, as the traditional understanding is saying. Then there are a couple of problems
- believing nisa'i already include his wives and daughters;
- it is unclear whether this commandment is universal or not; why did God not command all women right away? Why does God ask the prophet to do so? What would happen after the prophet would die, would it mean that this commandment would be invalidated?
Personally, this verse together with other verses, like 41-3 (which is talking about orphans and justice, then suddenly jumps to marrying nisa) do not include all women, but only a certain type;
I know there have been many discussions about verse 43. However, I just want to know how verse 3359 can make any sense with the traditional understanding.
Peace
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Quran 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the
believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer
garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and
harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.Here God is sending a commandment to our prophet for
- his wives
- his daughters
- the nisa'i of the believers
Lets assume that nisa means all (mature) women, as the traditional understanding is saying. Then there are a couple of problems
- believing nisa'i already include his wives and daughters;
- it is unclear whether this commandment is universal or not; why did God not command all women right away? Why does God ask the prophet to do so? What would happen after the prophet would die, would it mean that this commandment would be invalidated?
Personally, this verse together with other verses, like 41-3 (which is talking about orphans and justice, then suddenly jumps to marrying nisa) do not include all women, but only a certain type;
I know there have been many discussions about verse 43. However, I just want to know how verse 3359 can make any sense with the traditional understanding.
Peace
Isn't it addressing the prophet and the faithfull so their women are not unseemly in their behaviour so as not to give the faithless a chance to redicule them! ..........(33.60)
peace
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peace mohf,
A few points which may help resolve these alleged problems
- believing nisa'i already include his wives and daughters;
You did not cover whether the daughters are, by default, classed as "believers" - are they?
You already said "Lets assume that nisa means all (mature) women" - thus, what if the daughters are younger, i.e. not "mature"?- it is unclear whether this commandment is universal or not; why did God not command all women right away? Why does God ask the prophet to do so? What would happen after the prophet would die, would it mean that this commandment would be invalidated?
Personally, I think it is clear
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htmAnother common mistake regarding dress code is when the following situation-specific verse is applied to all situations
And those who harm the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
If the hypocrites and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread lies in the city do not refrain*, then We will let you overpower them, then they will not be able to remain as your neighbours except for a short while.
*proving harm is already occurring, and refers back to 3358, which is before the modification in dress is mentioned.The mistake is exposed when the practicalities of applying the above verses are considered. The verses deal with open enmity with significant repercussions for the perpetrators if this behaviour does not stop. The open enmity is direct to the person, hence the need for the women to modify their outer-garment in order to be recognised in public and not harmed. For the suggested solution in these verses to succeed four things must be in place
- The open enmity or harm must be present in the community first and direct to the women
- The modification in outer-garment and the consequence for the perpetrator of not abiding by this identification code must either be made known to the community or this would have to be common knowledge amongst the community
- The modification recommended would be enough to differentiate one group from another
- The authority is in place to fight/expel those persisting in this behaviour
Clearly, this specific criteria has to be fulfilled for these verses to work, thus is not a universal rule. It is situation-specific, e.g. if a section of the community become hostile to believing women or women in general and the believers have some power in the land, then they can utilise this solution, effectively giving an ultimatum with no room for excuse for the perpetrators.
These verses are commonly interpreted to mean that Muslim women must lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garment whenever in public even in times of peace. However, this is easily refuted by considering that if this was the case and open enmity then appeared, the modification suggested in these verses would already exist, thus implementing the modification in these verses could not be done, thus rendering the solution described in these verses as void.
However, from these verses it can be deduced that wearing of an outer-garment by women when in public was the norm.Quite simply, if someone says to you "it's cold outside so put on your winter jacket" do you wear your winter jacket EVERY time you go out, regardless of temperature?
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You did not cover whether the daughters are, by default, classed as "believers" - are they?
You already said "Lets assume that nisa means all (mature) women" - thus, what if the daughters are younger, i.e. not "mature"?Well, if I read whole chapter 33 to understand the context, I would find it highly unlikely that the daughters of our prophet would be unbelievers. ???
However, I don't have solid prove at hand for the daughters to be believers, but there is for our prophets' wives. It would be contradictionary if God's prophet would have been commanded to marry only women believers, and to send a command to ALL women believers AND the prophet's wives, which are already believers. Something is fishy here to say the least.Personally, I think it is clear
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htmQuite simply, if someone says to you "it's cold outside so put on your winter jacket" do you wear your winter jacket EVERY time you go out, regardless of temperature?
Well, I don't have any problem with the commandment itself. The problem is only to whom the commandment is sent and to whom the commandment is obligatory. Your link is describing when the commandment is valid, and the misconceptions about it.
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There is a point to asking why God would ask the Prophet to tell this group, that group and that other group. As an authority for the community it was upon him to think of ways of improving conditions for his people, so in the circumstances that the Qur'an itself describes, he is told to tell his wives, his daughters, and the women believers to do this or do that to keep them safe.
Although a do have my own objections to the universal understandig of Nisaa' as women, I thin that there is some logic en this aya that he should divide the women in three lots, becauso of the Prophets won standing to each of them. You do not talk in the same way to your wife or husband as you talk to everybody else nor in the same conjunction necessarily. You may need to gather people to give a collective injunction, but you do not need to gather anybody to talk to a daughter or spouse.
There is another thread started by Damon, nic Shirley, concerning this word and aya 4.3. May be you can contribute there.
Salaam
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peace mohf,
Thanks for clarifying you are unsure as to why it is phrased the way it is. Usually, being unsure does not favour one to conclude something.
I would have thought if it was a universal address, i.e. for all at all times, then it would not be phrased the way it is.
As a side note, I believe bro Fahad and I discussed this verse in detail on the forum. Cant recall the thread title however.
