:: Sajda is not prostration ::
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Firstly , we and malaaika were/are not the only creation of ALLAH Subhanavatala.your question is correct ,why ALLAH Subhanavtala should choose malaaika to witness about the creation of human.
The answer is very simple .ALLAH subanhanavatal knew everything ,from beginning to end .By informing malaaika he was also laying the carpet for eblees .eblees as well as all the malaaika witnessed the creation of Adam alaisalam otherwise ,eblees will never claim himself to be superior than Adam alaisalam .this fact is further proved by this verse
Verse 7.16
Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.Peace brother,
Thanks for your answers.
So, you think that to make iblis in error Allah made all this drama.
That also means Allah want iblis to be in error?I will take the simplest meaning ,the meaning which you are also comfortable .in your words "The word explains it all, which means to take over one's position"
Whose position was taken over and given to Adam then?
So the meaning of The word = to take over one's position .it is obvious ,in the history of the world , we (The humans) are not the first .if we write a book about the history of the world and each page representing a billion years then our history will occupy only a few pages .i mean one or two pages .
So you mean Allah was informing malaaika about our creation? Or Adam?
everywhere on the earth there is a proof of habitations of amazing creatures .science makes it very clear that those creatures never had a peaceful living .thus it proves that there was lot of blood shed upon the earth much before our creation . Malaaika knew about this blood shed because they were witnessing this blood shed .
Red You are against 230
Or do you meant by saying "before our creation" is referring to you and me and not Adam!Please clarify.
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Peace brother,
Thanks for your answers.
So, you think that to make iblis in error Allah made all this drama.
That also means Allah want iblis to be in error?......
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So you mean Allah was informing malaaika about our creation? Or Adam?
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.......I don't know why you are so much surprised .his dramas are going on everywhere even our life is a drama and the lone narrator of all dramas is ALLAH subhanavatal
lets follow the steps of that episode
1.ALLAH subhanvatala annoced about his creation to the malaaika
2.He made them witness the creation of Adam Alaisalam
3.All the maalika realized that his creation of Adam is subordinate to them
4.then ALLAH subhanavtala commanded all the malaaika to make sujood to his subordinate creation which was the actual test for malaaika
5.and eblis failedBTW ,it was not my conclusion ,i have already quoted the verse 7.17
dont your remember the verse 3.54
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.Moreover the good ,bad or ugly everything is from ALLAH subhanavatala
Verse 4.78
Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All are from Allah." So what is with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?Whose position was taken over and given to Adam then?
Who knows and who cares .i am here ,you are here and humans were there on this earth .i don't want to bother about the past kulafa of this earth because ALLAH subhanavatala did not gave those deteils in his book but however he has informed us about them
Verse 50.36
And how many a generation before them did We destroy who were greater than them in power and had explored throughout the lands. Is there any place of escape?Verse 36.31
Have they not considered how many generations We destroyed before them - that they to them will not return?
Verse 36.32
And indeed, all of them will yet be brought present before Us.Verse 81.55
And when the wild beasts are gatheredDo you want any more proofs ,Khan
BTW , can you give me a single physical proof which you can correlate with quranic verse for your claim.just give one physical proof that angels were on this earth before us and correlate with Quranic verse as i have done .Red You are against 230
Or do you meant by saying "before our creation" is referring to you and me and not Adam!Please clarify.
how i went against the Verse 2.30,khan
Once again i will repeat my previous quote
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So the meaning of The word = to take over one's position .it is obvious ,in the history of the world , we (The humans) are not the first .if we write a book about the history of the world and each page representing a billion years then our history will occupy only a few pages .i mean one or two pages .
everywhere on the earth there is a proof of habitations of amazing creatures .science makes it very clear that those creatures never had a peaceful living .thus it proves that there was lot of blood shed upon the earth much before our creation . Malaaika knew about this blood shed because they were witnessing this blood shed .i think you missed out this sentence .Further , i was referring about the things before Adam alaisalam
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@khan
I am waiting for your replay , khan -
I don't know why you are so much surprised .his dramas are going on everywhere even our life is a drama and the lone narrator of all dramas is ALLAH subhanavatal
lets follow the steps of that episode
1.ALLAH subhanvatala annoced about his creation to the malaaika
2.He made them witness the creation of Adam Alaisalam
3.All the maalika realized that his creation of Adam is subordinate to them
4.then ALLAH subhanavtala commanded all the malaaika to make sujood to his subordinate creation which was the actual test for malaaika
5.and eblis failedBTW ,it was not my conclusion ,i have already quoted the verse 7.17
dont your remember the verse 3.54
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.Moreover the good ,bad or ugly everything is from ALLAH subhanavatala
Verse 4.78
Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All are from Allah." So what is with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?Peace brother,
Better I will keep my mouth shut on this -X &
Who knows and who cares .i am here ,you are here and humans were there on this earth .i don't want to bother about the past kulafa of this earth because ALLAH subhanavatala did not gave those deteils in his book but however he has informed us about them
Then what is the purpose to inform us about this?
Verse 50.36
And how many a generation before them did We destroy who were greater than them in power and had explored throughout the lands. Is there any place of escape?Verse 36.31
Have they not considered how many generations We destroyed before them - that they to them will not return?
Verse 36.32
And indeed, all of them will yet be brought present before Us.Verse 81.55
And when the wild beasts are gatheredDo you want any more proofs ,Khan
I don't see any prove in the aayaat quoted. Sorry bro.
BTW , can you give me a single physical proof which you can correlate with quranic verse for your claim.just give one physical proof that angels were on this earth before us and correlate with Quranic verse as i have done .how i went against the Verse 2.30,khan
Once again i will repeat my previous quote i think you missed out this sentence .Further , i was referring about the things before Adam alaisalam
Already given bro but you fail to see it. And I cannot make you see but only Allah.
Seek His help, that's all I can say. -
Peace brother,
Better I will keep my mouth shut on this -X &
I don't know why you want to keep your mouth sealed .Don't you believe that everything is from ALLAH subhanvatala .Shitan became Shitan by ALLAH's will .
Then what is the purpose to inform us about this?
I think you want to start every thing over again .i have given all the necessary verses as proofs for my argument
I don't see any prove in the aayaat quoted. Sorry bro.
every time the archeologist unearth some dinosaur or some civilization they prove these ayahs .
Already given bro but you fail to see it. And I cannot make you see but only Allah.
Seek His help, that's all I can say.Sorry khan , i cannot read between the lines and i cannot read beneath the pages.if you have that talent make your point explicitly
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@khan
I am waiting for your replay , khanIts Ok ,khan it was just a reminder .after all it is your wish to answer or to ignore
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salamun alaykum
I have a question is sajda is not physical then how did they recognize when the people had prostrated? It seems as though whatever prostration is they did it as the same time and together in groups which would be hard if it was other than physical.
4102 And when you are among them and lead them in salaa, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
This is an old thread... but it is really important to me nowadays.,... few of my friends strongly insisting me and some recommend to prostrate physically....
My mind is not accepting it...
btw to answer what is highlighted.. Yes other group can definitely know once they prostrated.. it is not physical, How? IT SAY THOSE WHO PROSTRATED TO BE BEHIND YOU... it is clear that an action is taking place.. what is the action? Action they step backward.. so those who not yet prayed comes to know that These already prayed and submited/sujud.. so that's why they went behind others.. -
383 “… . And to Him (Allah) surrender (Aslama) whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly … “
1315 “… And to Allah submit (Sujud) whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. ….”
What is common in the above two verses? Are these physical actions?
Is Verse 3.83 non physical while 1315 physical or both non physical? -
Peace
Siin-Jiim-Dal = lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
MSJD - parts of a man that are the places of SJD, e.g. forehead/nose/hands/knees/feet etc. Any mode/place/practice in which the act of SJD is done.Apparently both physical and nonphysical depending on the context.
Also have a look at this website. http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
peace
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I take as physical and metaphorical depending on the context. In Arabic it can be both.
Thank you..
Yes it can be both depending on Arabic culture.. I meant the word sujud.. But does Allah want us to physically Sujud? That's the key?
What about 383 Does it mean physical? It is not word sujud but aslam same as Islam..
Is physical action without any emotions of heart or understanding really worthy? All conventional Muslims do prostrate physically it means they obey God physically.. Right.. They define prostrate to God.. Not ambiguous in it.. Will Allah accept physical prostration or submission of a person?
When they were told to prostrate they didn't prostrate... This is a word in day of ressurection.. All conventional Muslims can say OMG we did physically prostrate day and night 17 times and even extra.. We never rejected in worshipping you... Is physical prostration overwhelm?I really wonder if what all angels did was physical prostration to Adam.. I think iblees also would have done it? Coz it was the absolute opportunity for him further hide his disbelief.. Just prostrate with all others lightly and just neglect... But God knows what's in hearts.. God knew iblees didn't submit...
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Peace
Siin-Jiim-Dal = lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
MSJD - parts of a man that are the places of SJD, e.g. forehead/nose/hands/knees/feet etc. Any mode/place/practice in which the act of SJD is done.Apparently both physical and nonphysical depending on the context.
Also have a look at this website. http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
peace
Thank you for the link... Yes I agree with him (waqas) ... Sujud is not physical in Quran.. It may be in Arabic culture or even in Arabic word.. But not in Quran... It may look so as physical but it is not.. Deep study would get it..
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In our country other religions people physically prostrate to parents on every auspicious matters.. They prostrate physically parents before going to school, before leaving for work on in the day they marry or when they meet after long or leaving abroad in all matters.. You name it.. .. It shows the respect to parents which came in culture..they find it fariseeming.. But at the same time they treat the parents worse a human can do.. It is in the same culture..
So physical prostration here is just nothing but physical movement..
For example All Kings wanted rest to prostrate or kneel down to Them to show respect to them.. But their physical prostration to Kings did really respect them.. They did prostrate.. Fine.. King was happy and feels people obeyed.. But why they did?
God is different to King's mentality.. He wants the truth from people real submission not fake drama.. He doesn't need crocodile tears.. He looks at the hearts of people.. He looks people's real action in life..
So for me 383 and 1315 are real eye opening... Let's keep the unwillingness away for a while and let's talk those who do willingly..
One accepts and being surrendered (Islam) to God is not depicted in bodily movements but following what God ordered.
Same one submits (Sujud) to God is not physical action but submits within himself. .
That's real faith...
Physical prostration without developing a soul is nothing but waste..
Why one consider being in typical prostration posture is much worthy than one standing firm and praising His Lord.. Is it coz it has been in the culture especially in among those who accept gods and godess other than God OR it comes through King's coz they were same People's Lord. Idol worshipers cannot react or worship their idols without physical posture mainly physical prostration... Is that what the most merciful God wants us.. Satan may entice so as what everyone else do.. But God's language is clear.. Submit Allah.. Surrender Allah ... That needs hell a lot of commitment and dedication.. Not physical prostration.. -
Thank you for the link... Yes I agree with him (waqas) ... Sujud is not physical in Quran.. It may be in Arabic culture or even in Arabic word.. But not in Quran... It may look so as physical but it is not.
nope
The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
4102 "And if you are with them and you hold the contact prayer for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them be behind you;"The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
8421 "And when the Qur'an is read (past tense) over them, they do not prostrate."Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
2125 "AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary102 take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer."And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves ."etc.
All those clear signs demonstrate that prostration is ALSO PHYSICAL.
No need bro to study deeply when signs are so clear.
Peace. -
Thank you for the link... Yes I agree with him (waqas) ... Sujud is not physical in Quran.. It may be in Arabic culture or even in Arabic word.. But not in Quran... It may look so as physical but it is not.. Deep study would get it..
Sujud in clear Arabic means humbling. I go with that. Kinda connects to the idea of being whole (muslim).
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nope
The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
4102 "And if you are with them and you hold the contact prayer for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them be behind you;"The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
8421 "And when the Qur'an is read (past tense) over them, they do not prostrate."Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
2125 "AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary102 take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer."And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves ."etc.
All those clear signs demonstrate that prostration is ALSO PHYSICAL.
No need bro to study deeply when signs are so clear.
Peace.It is a subject only deep reflecting on all sujud ruku and all relevant subwords to come to conclusion... It seems you have not yet.. But glad some people have grasped it thoroughly... BTW never say No need to study thoroughly pr deeply.. That may be the reason that you didn't get..
But note brother Iyyaka.. If you or anyone who is performing physical prostration I never object.. But I never recommend even... Keep doing but as all believers are be genuine in faith of God and His fear... With real submission to God whatever the posture one take respect God it is individual's choice.. Don't say it is mandatory that one should physically prostrate in prayer or in any other relationship with God.. For that no one can bring evidence..
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It is a subject only deep reflecting on all sujud ruku and all relevant subwords to come to conclusion... It seems you have not yet.. But glad some people have grasped it thoroughly... BTW never say No need to study thoroughly pr deeply.. That may be the reason that you didn't get..
But note brother Iyyaka.. If you or anyone who is performing physical prostration I never object.. But I never recommend even... Keep doing but as all believers are be genuine in faith of God and His fear... With real submission to God whatever the posture one take respect God it is individual's choice.. Don't say it is mandatory that one should physically prostrate in prayer or in any other relationship with God.. For that no one can bring evidence..
In front of your eyes bro..Not from my perverse mind but just some ayats...I have nothing to add. This 3 Quranic signs are at least CRYSTAL clear (again - below)
Only those with twisted minds can deny the physical aspect of Salat in the Qur'an.
Of course "sujud" it is ALSO a mind attitude. Mind and body are involved in prayer. Why do you amputate a part ? Quran alone ? really ?
then of course you do what you want. I'm just exposing the Quran...--The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
4102 "And if you are with them and you hold the contact prayer for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them be behind you;"--The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
8421 "And when the Qur'an is read (past tense) over them, they do not prostrate."--Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
2125 "AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary102 take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer."And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves ."etc.
Peace.
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4829, Qur'an
you see them bowing and prostrating, seeking bounty from God and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah.Exodus 348, Torah
Moses, made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and prostrated .2 Chronicles 73, Torah
And when all the Children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the Lord upon the House, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement and prostrated, and praised the Lord, , "For good; for His mercy forever.", Torah
all the people hasted together, and fell down to the earth upon their faces to prostrate to their Lord God Almighty, the Most High.2 Chronicles 2018, Torah
And Jehoshaphat, bowed his head with face to the ground, and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the Lord, prostrating to the Lord.Psalms 953 - 6, Torah
For the Lord a great God, and a great King above all gods. The deep places of the earth in His hand, the strength of the hills His also. The sea His, and He made it, and His hands formed the dry . come, let us prostrate and bow down, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.