Is the idea of "Qur'an alone" a way of escaping some horrible truth?
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Peace everyone.
I've really been reading a lot recently. As usual I am trying to keep an open mind and heart and asking God to help me see the truth and accept it.
Earlier this week, a thought came in my mind that has never come up in my last 8 years of trying to follow the Qur'an. The question is this What if the muslim's are right in how they understand their religion? What if the Qur'an can only be understood/interpreted with the help of "islamic history", and all of their rituals are actually truly what the Qur'an is referring to? What if good intentioned people who see this as unacceptable, but want to hold on to the belief in a divine scripture from God, are just creating their own interpretations of the Qur'an to prove it's divinity?
I have been reading through hundreds of posts to see why people believe in the Qur'an and how "hadiths" are nonsense and not trustworthy, but there has to be some truth to the history of the Qur'an somewhere; it didn't just fall out of the sky one day. Maybe the truth is so unacceptable that we are trying to make the Qur'an more than what it is or something completely different. The huge variations in different understandings of apparent core concepts of the Qur'an such as "salat" and "hajj", the inclusion or exclusion of rituals in the "deen", the history of who and where Muhammad was, and even the nature of God described in the Qur'an, seems to me to show that the Qur'an is beyond the grasp of non 'Arabic speaking people of today and is open to any interpretation that "makes sense" to each individual.
I have been thinking a lot, and all I want to do is live a good life to show God I am thankful for it. The majority of things I have heard and read from people about why they believe the Qur'an have showed me that is simply a matter of blind faith for the most part. I cannot accept that as I believe that the content of a book must prove (by logic and its overall theme and instructions) to be divine before I can move on. Unfortunately, I am a point now where I cannot make sense of the Qur'an's laws which I am supposed to implement in my life to spare me Hell.
If anyone has something they want to share which may correct me or enlighten me, if God wills it, I'd really appreciate it.
God bless.
James
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Salaam, James,
There is nothing I could correct in what you say. You speak honestly, and eventually you will get somewhere. You will get wherever God wants you to get and in the way He wants you to get there, no other way.
This thought you state, I think many of us may have had it at some time.
You want objective proof. You are the proof. You do not need any other, it will be hearsay. Let the Qur'an speak to you, not to anybody else, not through some filter. Let it speak to you. Shun those parts of it where you may get noise, parasites. We read so much, we hear so much, that everything we read, particularly Qur'an, is tainted by that noise. Just drop that, let your pure heart, at least as pure as you can manage, because absolute purity is out of reach for limited beings like us, but as free of noise and clatter as you can, and let it speak to you, to you, not through the sieve of what anybody may think, scholars, internet cattle or whatever... Just you. The secret is inyou, not in Qur'an, the qur'an will be your mirror.
And do not worry about what interpretation is right. Yours, your honest, sincere interpretation from your heart will be the right one. That one, precisely that one. The rest is noise, parasites. Do you think God, Qur'an, needed some permission from history, from scholars, from researchers, from maulanas, cheijs or whatever to speak to you? It is to you and not to some world, to whom the Qur'an is addressed, yes to you. To your honest loving heart. Why did God reveal anything at all? So that we can hand it over to some authority to do the job for us? No. It is to confirm in writing or in words what you knwo in your heart. You will hear your echo. When you speak you are not a hearer of what you say, the Qur'an is your echo. Or did you think it was revealed so that some caste could make it their property and give you what it says because they are the owners and have special powers and privileges to interpose themselves between the words of YOUR God and you?
We are sociable animals, we need each other to be in the world, and surely also to be beyond this world, but we must not confound that with subservience to others, because that is to despise, disdain, unwelcome what is the special gift of our Lover to each of us. We are who we are, it is with what we are that we must corresponde to our Lover, not with some regurgitated fake loan from anybody else. Be happy to be you, to understand by yourself and do not feel guilty. That is the way it should be from your heart to the divine mercy, no intermediaries. Trust. And trust starts by trusting oneself when one is honest and lets down the barricades that one erects to protect oneself from the world. With God you can let them down, hour honest truth is all protection you need.
Yes, it is YOUR interpetation what matters. That is why you are given a heart and an intellect. Were it not so, why should you need any capacity to think or to feel? Better to appreciate the gift you are to yourself and thank God for it, and ENJOY IT. Sometimes we get so much anti-ego preaching, that ego seems to be a sin, but ego is as much a gift of God as selfless love is. It is a matter of truth and justice. Do justice to yourself to start with and trust your guts and your sincerest desires.
Salaam
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peace,
Personally, I have little idea as to why people read a forum or online websites and see varying views then think "Quran must be too difficult to understand", "maybe Traditionalists are right about Islam, i.e. Quran+Sunnah+Hadith", "so many views, it's impossible to tell which one is right".
Firstly, whenever you read a view, all you need to examine is the evidence backing up such a view. You will soon find the variance dwindle.
Secondly, the variance in early Traditional Islam was HUGE. There is variance on almost all issues.
And lastly, this article often soothes doubts http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602374.0
The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of Quran based islam.
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Hi James,
I don't have much more to say from what I have said to you previously. I wrote some posts before and I don't think you responded to it. - I'm mentioning this because my answer to some of your questions would be in those posts. Because I asked a question as well about what made you read the Quran and follow it in the first place... and maybe you need to look into that. But there's no point in me rehashing that post, it was also quite long.
There is material out there on the use of the word hadith and the second shahadah in the hadith vs the shahadah of the Quran. In fact, I mentioned that in some of my previous posts to you. There are also other points of the way people have gone astray previously. Variations in those following hadith has also occurred. You would find this amongst Sunni. Shia etc. These are the sects of Islam, they are sects for a reason in my opinion.
Do you think that if God is Merciful, does this extend to that He would grant us guidance to help clear the way from societal constructs? I think I may already know your answer. But I would disagree there.
The point about truth in the hadith - yes of course that is possible. Just like there is some truth in the Torah and Gospel - that's what the Quran also refers to in terms of previously revealed scriptures. I personally, don't follow that therefore we need to follow those in the form that we have them now.
peace,
Personally, I have little idea as to why people read a forum or online websites and see varying views then think "Quran must be too difficult to understand", "maybe Traditionalists are right about Islam, i.e. Quran+Sunnah+Hadith", "so many views, it's impossible to tell which one is right".
I agree with this. I think I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, that what we identify here is human nature.
Salaam
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Hi jtc,
It sounds like you are a serious search and that should be commended. Searching is extremely difficult and it opens you up to some conclusions/realizations that you may have never expected nor desired. I admire through you posts how diligently ask questions.
From your statement it is clear you want proof... definitive proof. The question is "What proof will be enough to overcome your doubt?" That is the question you seem to be asking. Once you find the answer to that question, then you will have the proof you need. Any of us can tell you what has convinced us. But that may not convince you. I would step back and do what the Quran repeatedly tells us to do. First, look at the world around you for proof. The Quran gives us instructions to guide us to the truth/proof. It gives us boundaries to live within in order to be able to find the truth/proof. On this note I would recommend you take a step back, take a breath, look in the world. Maybe try some of the things suggested. Do some charity work. Pray often. See if that leads you to your proof.
On the other hand you say that "all I want to do is live a good life to show God I am thankful for it." The second statement raises the question "Does it matter if the Quran is absolutely divine or not? Does it matter if the Hadith/Sunna should be followed?" My personal opinion is that your intention is what matters. You want to live a good life. My personal opinion is that the Quran tells you how to do that. It leaves somethings open for your own interpretation. I think this is an important attribute of the Quran. By leaving things open to interpretation it allows you to express your personal gratitude to God in your own way. Instead of someone telling you exactly how to do it. My personal opinion is that the Hadith/Sunna are there to give examples of how other people have understood what the Quran says. It doesn't mean that it is the definitive interpretation.
Good luck on your quest. If you find the answers please let us know as we all can learn from your journey.
Just my crazy thoughts,
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
Peace James
"History is written by the victors". Although hadith and other sources of history might contains some truth, the problem is that you cannot make sure which part of it is right. IMO the mullahs and the hadith collectors have served as agents of the rich and powerful people. Take zakat as an example. 2.5% of income is nothing for a rich person but can be significant for a poor person who hardly manages to feed his family. Similarly, you will find many hadiths against the women who were oppressed in the Arab world.
I think the beauty of Quran is that it speaks directly to you and does not require history to understand it. Even if you cannot link a verse to a particular event in history, it still clears its message and has a lesson for you. -
Peace James
"History is written by the victors". Although hadith and other sources of history might contains some truth, the problem is that you cannot make sure which part of it is right. IMO the mullahs and the hadith collectors have served as agents of the rich and powerful people. Take zakat as an example. 2.5% of income is nothing for a rich person but can be significant for a poor person who hardly manages to feed his family. Similarly, you will find many hadiths against the women who were oppressed in the Arab world.
I think the beauty of Quran is that it speaks directly to you and does not require history to understand it. Even if you cannot link a verse to a particular event in history, it still clears its message and has a lesson for you.Yeah, some try to discern the truth by checking what is in accordance to the Quran. They can do this is they wish, but there is still the issue that hadiths are not preserved or said to be preserved and what the Quran has to say about them. Then there is also no statement about writing down the traditions of Prophet Muhammad. In the Quran, the term Millat Ibrahim is used etc.
I would also say that the Quran's beauty can be found in the way it addresses us as individuals and that it is not about history, particular stories, but practical advice on living - remembering Allah is said to be one of the most important things, so many times throughout the Quran.
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Peace.
Wakas - I don't mean to be rude, but I didn't find your response very encouraging. What I got from your message was that you don't understand how people like me have a certain mentality that is different from yours in the sense that I actually question if the Qur'an is the word of God. I feel that you might be someone who like many of us have been brought up in a household or culture that promotes the Qur'an as the word of God, and so you may never have even questioned that. I don't want to assume, but please correct me if I am wrong.
Supportpeacenotwar - I am sorry I didn't respond to your previous post; I thought I had, but I realize now it was in another thread I started.
Jewishdude - Thank you for your kind words.
Basically, I want to know if anyone has actually tried to look at the Qur'an without any preconceptions. I think that if you are born into a muslim family, this is almost impossible as the concept of the Qur'an being the word of God is so strongly instilled, it's hard to consider an alternative. I was born into a christian family and it took me years to even consider the possibility that the Bible might not be God's words. When I sat down and re-examined it with as open a mind as I could have, I found too many contradictions and unacceptable stories about the nature of God and His chosen people.
Has anyone here who was "born muslim" ever stopped to consider why they believe the Qur'an is the word of God with a sincere heart? It is my guess that the honest answer for most would only be "because my parents raised me to believe it was". Perhaps, people think they believe the Qur'an is the word of God, because of different reasons, but after realizing that the "islam" being practiced today by the majority of muslims is so backwards and pagan, maybe they weren't willing to deal with the fact that perhaps this book is not from God, and instead wanted to hold on to it by reinventing it to fit something that would be acceptable in their minds and hearts.
There are so many claims against the Qur'an. I have to admit that many of them are extremely weak and do not show a sincere examination, but rather a lack of knowledge regarding the 'Arabic language or just misunderstanding certain concepts. However, I have come across certain articles that show a striking similarity between stories in the Quran and the Talmud, Mishnah, and Apocryphal works of the New Testament that are centuries older than the Qur'an. Does it not seem strange that the oral teachings of the Jews written by various Rabbi's have stories that are not in their very own scripture (Torah), but yet can be found in the Qur'an? I personally found this surprising as I understood the Qur'an is supposed to confirm previous books of God, not words of men. Does anyone have thoughts on this?
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I am of catholic extraction. Not that catholics are so bent on the bible as protestants or other christians sects, although they also uphold the bible as the word of God. No matter, there were things in the bible, many, that I could not stomach and of which there are many hadith that remind me. But the Qur'an... It depends so much on translation... However a stylistically good translation, and by that I mean, a translation that feels alive, not like a transposing of words at their worst possible value in a monotone to make it similar to the bible, did give me something that the bible did not the presence of God. I do not even remember what translation it was.
Later, when I have been able to read the Qur'an in Arabic I have found it beyond my expectations. You think, and you have good reasons to do so, that we may be bent on blaming translations, but that it is something in the Qur'an that makes it unassumable. I can only say that no, it is not the Qur'an. The Qur'an has been made unrecognisable in many passages by the filth, accretions put on it through interpretation to fit previous conceptions or particularl interested conceptions and of course trnaslations who put in the Qur'an their own conception, and make it override the Qur'an. It is amazing, how the Qur'an can be blatantly betrayed even in obvious and simple things in translation. If in spite of all that I was able to get in that first translation I remember something of its essence, then it means that there si something to it.
On the other hand, it is like a specialised domain of science or technique if you do not know a thing about that science or technique, there is no way on earth you are going to understand a book written about that matter. It is so with the Qur'an depending on the spiritual level of the reader. I have known people who do not know Arabic, and however, because of their spiritual level we able to explain or rather TRANSMIT the heart of the Qur'an in such amazing ways we could not be the same again after that. Yu know it deeply within yourself.
It is tempting and mentally entertaining, but we must go beyond mental enjoyment and avoid to put the Qur'an at a merely mental level. You must go beyond that, otherwise we will get entangled, like if we got a gift from aloved person and kept our eyes on the wrappings and disregarded the gift itself.
The Qur'an is for real. Obviously, if it does not get across you there is nothing you can do to it. There may be something you can do to yourself, but that God knows and as, I said, in another message to you, you will get there. Somehow, you will if you want to.
On the other hand, why feel qualms if you feel that the Qur'an is not authentically what it says it is, if that is what you think, that is it.
However, I have come across certain articles that show a striking similarity between stories in the Quran and the Talmud, Mishnah, and Apocryphal works of the New Testament that are centuries older than the Qur'an. Does it not seem strange that the oral teachings of the Jews written by various Rabbi's have stories that are not in their very own scripture (Torah), but yet can be found in the Qur'an? I personally found this surprising as I understood the Qur'an is supposed to confirm previous books of God, not words of men. Does anyone have thoughts on this?
Yes I have thoughts on that. The first "authoritative" (big laugh) version of those events that may be or may not be mentioned in the Qur'an that you say, from where do we get them? Yes, from the bible, from the sources you say. But does it mean that they are the real, the authentic the faithful ones? Were not those "events" also told and transmited somewhere else than our "authoritative source".
There are threads in free minds that speak about those things. I mention particularly Pazuzu's threads on "bible" Quranic events and his two books which he has made available through the forum. You may or may not agree on his conclusions, but you certainly get a new angle to the question.
As far as I am concerned, I find Pazuzu's reports very, very enlightening and very necessary. The Qur'an has been absolutely colonnised by the colonnisers, we get the Qur'an invariably through the sieve of the bible, as we get so many hadith, and till we do not gain our mental indepedence from that maniulated source, we will be shitting on the Qur'an. And you can figure, translations are made to fit the bible proprietary conception of events. Hadiths of course have done a big job of making the Qur'an an appendage of the Bible. If one takes the Qur'an to make it fit the bible, it should not be a surprise if it looks afterward like the bible. But it is you who make it fit, not anything inherent to the Qur'an. Get some of those threads, you will see the strenous efforts to make the Qur'an say the things that corroborate the bible instead of paying attention to what the Qur'an itself says and which would throw the bible fitting ideas to the wind.
Salaam
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Peace.
Wakas - I don't mean to be rude, but I didn't find your response very encouraging. What I got from your message was that you don't understand how people like me have a certain mentality that is different from yours in the sense that I actually question if the Qur'an is the word of God. I feel that you might be someone who like many of us have been brought up in a household or culture that promotes the Qur'an as the word of God, and so you may never have even questioned that. I don't want to assume, but please correct me if I am wrong.
Supportpeacenotwar - I am sorry I didn't respond to your previous post; I thought I had, but I realize now it was in another thread I started.
Jewishdude - Thank you for your kind words.
Basically, I want to know if anyone has actually tried to look at the Qur'an without any preconceptions. I think that if you are born into a muslim family, this is almost impossible as the concept of the Qur'an being the word of God is so strongly instilled, it's hard to consider an alternative. I was born into a christian family and it took me years to even consider the possibility that the Bible might not be God's words. When I sat down and re-examined it with as open a mind as I could have, I found too many contradictions and unacceptable stories about the nature of God and His chosen people.
Has anyone here who was "born muslim" ever stopped to consider why they believe the Qur'an is the word of God with a sincere heart? It is my guess that the honest answer for most would only be "because my parents raised me to believe it was". Perhaps, people think they believe the Qur'an is the word of God, because of different reasons, but after realizing that the "islam" being practiced today by the majority of muslims is so backwards and pagan, maybe they weren't willing to deal with the fact that perhaps this book is not from God, and instead wanted to hold on to it by reinventing it to fit something that would be acceptable in their minds and hearts.
There are so many claims against the Qur'an. I have to admit that many of them are extremely weak and do not show a sincere examination, but rather a lack of knowledge regarding the 'Arabic language or just misunderstanding certain concepts. However, I have come across certain articles that show a striking similarity between stories in the Quran and the Talmud, Mishnah, and Apocryphal works of the New Testament that are centuries older than the Qur'an. Does it not seem strange that the oral teachings of the Jews written by various Rabbi's have stories that are not in their very own scripture (Torah), but yet can be found in the Qur'an? I personally found this surprising as I understood the Qur'an is supposed to confirm previous books of God, not words of men. Does anyone have thoughts on this?
Peace be with you, jtc.
Almost the same issue (highlighted red) was raised before in this forum.
Here's the link http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597368.0
There, in that thread, brother Arnold Yasin replied
"Peace,
The current Tenach is a compilation that was made over the centuries. Many original texts where not included and thus left out as they were deemed not fit for the Rabbinac doctrine. Many fragments of these left-out texts ended up in the Middrash and Talmud. The Qur'an gives the most important parables and examples as a summary from the original scriptures given to the Hebrew people. As some of these examples are only to be found in the Talmud, it proves the above mentioned editing of the original scriptures by the Rabbi tradition. And thus also that the Hebrews tradition left their original teachings by editing many out, just as the Qur'an tells us."
Then again he wrote
"Peace,
This is why to me the word Torah in the Qur'an should not be approached as a title for a scripture, but rather as an overall label for what they have in total. They have the original Teachings spread out over the Tenach, Talmud and Middrash.
Same accounts for Injil in the Qur'an, it is not a title for one Gospel, but saying they have the Good News, which is spread out over many scriptures the Christians have. Also many parts of the original Good News is hidden, forgotten or neglected in many ancient Christian libraries in Monasteries.
This is why the Qur'an says the Jews and Christians have the Teachings and the Good News, but since they have mixed them up to much through editing them and their man-made doctrines, the Qur'an gives a summary of the most important ones and also shows where they went wrong.
From Bible studies, the above conclusion is the only acceptable one, the original messages being edited and spread out over their scriptures, instead of believing in one correct Torah or Gospel version."
I hope this helps.
Peace.
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Basically, I want to know if anyone has actually tried to look at the Qur'an without any preconceptions. I think that if you are born into a muslim family, this is almost impossible as the concept of the Qur'an being the word of God is so strongly instilled, it's hard to consider an alternative. I was born into a christian family and it took me years to even consider the possibility that the Bible might not be God's words. When I sat down and re-examined it with as open a mind as I could have, I found too many contradictions and unacceptable stories about the nature of God and His chosen people.
Has anyone here who was "born muslim" ever stopped to consider why they believe the Qur'an is the word of God with a sincere heart? It is my guess that the honest answer for most would only be "because my parents raised me to believe it was". Perhaps, people think they believe the Qur'an is the word of God, because of different reasons, but after realizing that the "islam" being practiced today by the majority of muslims is so backwards and pagan, maybe they weren't willing to deal with the fact that perhaps this book is not from God, and instead wanted to hold on to it by reinventing it to fit something that would be acceptable in their minds and hearts.
I was born in a Muslim family, but had no actual religious upbringing. In fact, some people in my family questioned the Quran and at one point I did not think it was the word of God so much as the words of good people trying to send out a good message. Although I always had this idea there is truth in all religions or spiritualities out there. This would still fit with the Quran now, as it is Allah who bestows knowledge and the Quran is like a Reminder of that which we may already perceive. I was younger then. I think I am a bit more unique because I "converted out" of Islam. You may find this unusual but I did. It is quite personal to me, and not something I am in any way proud of. It relates to new age religions. I still held onto concepts in Monotheism and I still held onto "cultural" practices in Islam such as not drinking alcohol etc. You may be surprised at some of the journeys we have had.
When I first came across some of the signs in Islam, for some reason I went back to new age religion practices. It's complicated why I was drawn to it at all. Then, when I was a bit older, I started to just call myself a Theist. No particular affiliation.
I never read the Quran before until more recently as an adult. When I started looking into the hadith, the other signs, I became intruiged and I realised the message in the Quran was not Islam as I previously thought it was. I realised that these were things I already thought to be true. Not from anyone else telling me, but from my own understanding of life and our place in this world. You could say the Quran was the Reminder I needed, as it states in the Quran. Now, from all I've been through and considered, I understand the Quran to be the Word of God.
I think asking people if they've been sincere to "question" the Quran though, still might not help you find the answer you need. After all, aren't there people who question the Bible, Atheism, Agnosticism, etc and come to Islam and the Quran?
Peace.
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I was born into an unorthodox Sufi Sect Of Islam where ancestor worship and praying to dead "saints" amongst other things was expected. I left my birth sect and studied the Abrahamic faiths. I was only interested in the truth as I had already been considered an apostate by my own. And yes, the thought of "What if Muhammad was a mad man or a political mastermind" did enter my mind on many occasions. In the end, this is an example of what affirmed my faith, along with several sporting sources from the old Jewish books and the New Testament. The proof was overwhelming to me. Quran was the truth, the word of the creator and unlike any other book. Don't take my word for it. Examine the proofs for yourself. There are MANY! God bless and good luck.
http//www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_index.html
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Salam James
I was raised Protestant in Switzerland. My parents were very irreligious and we saw the church only once a year, from the inside, namely in Christmas. In school and later compulsory teaching i did not understand very much and i was not interested - I still remember how I thought the New Testament, a story book ...
So, when i met the Quran i was really clear minded only the general bad picture about muslims as prejudice. When I read the Qur'an in a pleasant German translation, I was surprised that all my prejudices after a closer research and reflect turned out to be incorrect. I recognized the Quran as logical and clear and it was not hard for me to follow him.
The Sunnah of course came after my conversion very quickly and rolled over my clear faith and I fell into the confusion of the Sunnis.
After I realized my mistake,I came back to the Qur'an again and this time I was reading a lot more and also studied Torah and New Testament.
By so many different opinions made crazy, I had temporarily, a similar feeling, and I did not know if and how the Quran should be classified.
Then I tried praying and asking God to recover my faith. And I have the feeling that God has led me directly to huruf - that she was at the right time here with the right answers, which helped me out of my trouble. (At this point thanks huruf!!!)
isA the Quran will be to you again revealed, as he has done to me.
peace -
Salam James
I was raised Protestant in Switzerland. My parents were very irreligious and we saw the church only once a year, from the inside, namely in Christmas. In school and later compulsory teaching i did not understand very much and i was not interested - I still remember how I thought the New Testament, a story book ...
So, when i met the Quran i was really clear minded only the general bad picture about muslims as prejudice. When I read the Qur'an in a pleasant German translation, I was surprised that all my prejudices after a closer research and reflect turned out to be incorrect. I recognized the Quran as logical and clear and it was not hard for me to follow him.
The Sunnah of course came after my conversion very quickly and rolled over my clear faith and I fell into the confusion of the Sunnis.
After I realized my mistake,I came back to the Qur'an again and this time I was reading a lot more and also studied Torah and New Testament.
By so many different opinions made crazy, I had temporarily, a similar feeling, and I did not know if and how the Quran should be classified.
Then I tried praying and asking God to recover my faith. And I have the feeling that God has led me directly to huruf - that she was at the right time here with the right answers, which helped me out of my trouble. (At this point thanks huruf!!!)
isA the Quran will be to you again revealed, as he has done to me.
peace ) -
Salaam, James,
There is nothing I could correct in what you say. You speak honestly, and eventually you will get somewhere. You will get wherever God wants you to get and in the way He wants you to get there, no other way.
This thought you state, I think many of us may have had it at some time.
You want objective proof. You are the proof. You do not need any other, it will be hearsay. Let the Qur'an speak to you, not to anybody else, not through some filter. Let it speak to you. Shun those parts of it where you may get noise, parasites. We read so much, we hear so much, that everything we read, particularly Qur'an, is tainted by that noise. Just drop that, let your pure heart, at least as pure as you can manage, because absolute purity is out of reach for limited beings like us, but as free of noise and clatter as you can, and let it speak to you, to you, not through the sieve of what anybody may think, scholars, internet cattle or whatever... Just you. The secret is inyou, not in Qur'an, the qur'an will be your mirror.
And do not worry about what interpretation is right. Yours, your honest, sincere interpretation from your heart will be the right one. That one, precisely that one. The rest is noise, parasites. Do you think God, Qur'an, needed some permission from history, from scholars, from researchers, from maulanas, cheijs or whatever to speak to you? It is to you and not to some world, to whom the Qur'an is addressed, yes to you. To your honest loving heart. Why did God reveal anything at all? So that we can hand it over to some authority to do the job for us? No. It is to confirm in writing or in words what you knwo in your heart. You will hear your echo. When you speak you are not a hearer of what you say, the Qur'an is your echo. Or did you think it was revealed so that some caste could make it their property and give you what it says because they are the owners and have special powers and privileges to interpose themselves between the words of YOUR God and you?
We are sociable animals, we need each other to be in the world, and surely also to be beyond this world, but we must not confound that with subservience to others, because that is to despise, disdain, unwelcome what is the special gift of our Lover to each of us. We are who we are, it is with what we are that we must corresponde to our Lover, not with some regurgitated fake loan from anybody else. Be happy to be you, to understand by yourself and do not feel guilty. That is the way it should be from your heart to the divine mercy, no intermediaries. Trust. And trust starts by trusting oneself when one is honest and lets down the barricades that one erects to protect oneself from the world. With God you can let them down, hour honest truth is all protection you need.
Yes, it is YOUR interpetation what matters. That is why you are given a heart and an intellect. Were it not so, why should you need any capacity to think or to feel? Better to appreciate the gift you are to yourself and thank God for it, and ENJOY IT. Sometimes we get so much anti-ego preaching, that ego seems to be a sin, but ego is as much a gift of God as selfless love is. It is a matter of truth and justice. Do justice to yourself to start with and trust your guts and your sincerest desires.
Salaam
I read over this again, and these seem like genuinely thoughtful words to help someone in need. I can understand why you got a commendation Huruf! )
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Peace everyone.
I've really been reading a lot recently. As usual I am trying to keep an open mind and heart and asking God to help me see the truth and accept it.
Earlier this week, a thought came in my mind that has never come up in my last 8 years of trying to follow the Qur'an. The question is this What if the muslim's are right in how they understand their religion? What if the Qur'an can only be understood/interpreted with the help of "islamic history", and all of their rituals are actually truly what the Qur'an is referring to? What if good intentioned people who see this as unacceptable, but want to hold on to the belief in a divine scripture from God, are just creating their own interpretations of the Qur'an to prove it's divinity?
I have been reading through hundreds of posts to see why people believe in the Qur'an and how "hadiths" are nonsense and not trustworthy, but there has to be some truth to the history of the Qur'an somewhere; it didn't just fall out of the sky one day. Maybe the truth is so unacceptable that we are trying to make the Qur'an more than what it is or something completely different. The huge variations in different understandings of apparent core concepts of the Qur'an such as "salat" and "hajj", the inclusion or exclusion of rituals in the "deen", the history of who and where Muhammad was, and even the nature of God described in the Qur'an, seems to me to show that the Qur'an is beyond the grasp of non 'Arabic speaking people of today and is open to any interpretation that "makes sense" to each individual.
I have been thinking a lot, and all I want to do is live a good life to show God I am thankful for it. The majority of things I have heard and read from people about why they believe the Qur'an have showed me that is simply a matter of blind faith for the most part. I cannot accept that as I believe that the content of a book must prove (by logic and its overall theme and instructions) to be divine before I can move on. Unfortunately, I am a point now where I cannot make sense of the Qur'an's laws which I am supposed to implement in my life to spare me Hell.
If anyone has something they want to share which may correct me or enlighten me, if God wills it, I'd really appreciate it.
God bless.
James
I think you have a very strong point in that I detected that Quranist many times create problems for themselves. Not everything in Tradition has to be questioned. If the shoe fits wear it.
I think what Jewishdude said is very relevant. Truth maybe truth in one side of the valley but could be falsehood in another side of the valley. Killing yourself maybe wrong in one side of the valley but Moses telling his people to take their lives maybe truth in another side of the valley. Too often Quranist take people and themselves in a long circle trying to interpret the Quran. This has to do with the influence that sectarian Islam has over us. Even the structure of this forum looks like the 5 pillars of Islam where Salat, Haj and Ramadan are placed in one section. Even Islamic calendar is there. There is a shadow that sectarian Islam is casting on us and it influences us in many ways. In time they will diminish. But i agree with you that many Quranist come with lots of legalism and ritualism in them and complicate matters and it rubs off on the people who visit the forum. Often these Quranist see their arguments as convincing while in many ways the readers who follow their arguments do not and see it as complicated and going in circles. And so some will feel left hanging.
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I think you have a very strong point in that I detected that Quranist many times create problems for themselves. Not everything in Tradition has to be questioned. If the shoe fits wear it.
I think what Jewishdude said is very relevant. Truth maybe truth in one side of the valley but could be falsehood in another side of the valley. Killing yourself maybe wrong in one side of the valley but Moses telling his people to take their lives maybe truth in another side of the valley. Too often Quranist take people and themselves in a long circle trying to interpret the Quran. This has to do with the influence that sectarian Islam has over us. Even the structure of this forum looks like the 5 pillars of Islam where Salat, Haj and Ramadan are placed in one section. Even Islamic calendar is there. There is a shadow that sectarian Islam is casting on us and it influences us in many ways. In time they will diminish. But i agree with you that many Quranist come with lots of legalism and ritualism in them and complicate matters and it rubs off on the people who visit the forum. Often these Quranist see their arguments as convincing while in many ways the readers who follow their arguments do not and see it as complicated and going in circles. And so some will feel left hanging.
Salam, Bigmo.
You just spoke my mind. You're that very one person I've found in this entire forum who is my like-minded in most of the cases. I completely agree with what you've said, and I also think that sometimes a Quranist can be really misleading, although that is not usually his/her intention. Their ideas can be very attractive sometimes but doesn't necessarily has to be the truth. Hence, can mislead others. And I don't know why some of the Quranists have to point fingers in every single matter of the Sunnis, which I find to be kind of disappointing. I'm a Quran-aloner myself, but hey, similar to the Sunnis, I also believe that faith, salat, zakat, siyam and hajj are the most important aspects of our deen. I've although added a new one in my list, which is 'good deeds'. So for me, it has six pillars.
Peace.
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Salam James,
I experimented with your titular question before I actually accepted Quranist Islam. The answer I got was, if the Quran was pro-Traditional Islam, it would look SO DIFFERENT from what it is today. Lets say 'salah' is 'ritual prayers', ask the following questions
a. Could Allah not just put in a chapter called "the ritual of salah" and outline the steps in clear language.b. Why would Allah put these so-called 'times' SO FAR apart and in 2 different versions (11/114 and 17/7
c. Why did every single rasool go to his people and NEVER mention the salah (Chapters 7, 11 and 26) as a ritual?
If you want to portray the Quran as a ritual-centric book, it would look SO SO DIFFERENT from what it is now.
Don't worry about the variance in views. You're not here to serve those people! All of us are here to serve Allah so read as best you can and apply. Allah will show you signs so you can refine your understanding. It's an interactive process. Share your views, take what views make sense sure but ultimately - it's YOUR path.
