Timing

Melly

Salamun alaykum

I have a question sin regard to 20130.

20130 so patient, against, what, they say, and glorify, utilizing praise, your lord, before, rising, the sun, and before, its setting, and from, hours, the night, so glorify, and ends, the daylight, that you, be satisfied.

To ME this is saying that before sunrise, before sunset and night are different times than the ends of the day. so before sunrise is not considered an end of the day as the ends of the day are stated separately. I have seen where a lot of people say that fajr is one of the ends of the day ( as per their understanding of 11114), but at the same time the Fajr salaat(however you define this) is to be done before sunset, but this can not be, as before sunset is different from the ends of the day according to this (20130) ayat.

So my question is, if Fajr salaat(however you define this) is before sunset then what would be considered the ends of the day?

I know that 20130 is speaking about the times for glorification not salaat, but i found it interesting how the timing before sunset appears to be different from that of the ends of the day. I am looking for feedback from people who have researched this subject more then I have as I am just beginning.

I do not want this to turn into a discussion of wether salaat is physical or not, just trying to get and understanding of the timings as salaat(wether physical or not) is prescribed at specific times (4103).

Thanks in advance to the participants

mohf

The verse you noted does not mention Salat.

Most people here ignore all verses talking about glorification, but I think that there must be some kind of connection between glorification and salat. I have seen like tens of verses talking about timings of glorification, most of them mentioning only two timings, and I remember one mentioning four timings. This is a subject I haven't study'd thoroughly yet .

Edit sorry, haven't read your whole post. I now see you already knew that.

Melly

Yes, I know it is not dealing with salaat, but most people seem to view Fajr salaat as the pre sunrise salaat and one of the ends of the day, but upon reading this I am thinking that Fajr can only be one or the other, and which ever one it is i'm curious to see what others think is the other. If fajr is the pre sunrise then it cant be one of the ends of the day as this particular ayat makes a distinction between the two.

Thank you for the reply anyway, and what do you think?

Bender

Salamun alaykum

as I am just beginning.

Salaamun alayki,

Welcome to the forum handshake
From your few posts it seems you are not a beginner nope

As for your question, please study 2185 and chapter 97.
From their information you can exactly derive when the Quranic night ends and also know what the Fajr period is.

Hope this helps.

Salaam,
Bender

Melly

wa alaykum as salam

Thank you for the welcome.

I am new to this site and just beginning my study into salaa so i have lots of questions.

I will look into 97 and 2185 (although i have reviewed it before), but now I am stuck at what the first end of the day would be, as according to 20130 it cant be fajr unless fajr is really not before sunrise. But now i'm totally thrown for a loop -\

But thank you for your reply and I will look into the references you gave me.

Lena

Peace Wouldn't it depend on whether Abraham and other prophets and also Prophet Muhammed were following a lunar or solar timing?

Wakas

I'm not surprised you are "thrown for a loop" on 20130. When I studied this verse in detail with regard to timings, by taking it literally I could not make it work whatever way I tried, and I tried many. I therefore concluded it most likely is hyperbole or idiom, meaning all the time or lots.

Some have claimed to make this verse work with salat timings etc but all failed when I checked them.

mirjamnur

Salam

I'm not surprised you are "thrown for a loop" on 20130. When I studied this verse in detail with regard to timings, by taking it literally I could not make it work whatever way I tried, and I tried many. I therefore concluded it most likely is hyperbole or idiom, meaning all the time or lots.

Some have claimed to make this verse work with salat timings etc but all failed when I checked them.

20130 so patient, against, what, they say, and glorify, utilizing praise, your lord, before, rising, the sun, and before, its setting, and from, hours, the night, so glorify, and ends, the daylight, that you, be satisfied.

The verse has (in my opinion) nothing to do with the timing of the Salat. It's an advice for every believer when he/she faces difficulties of insults from disbelievers to praise our Lord all the times. I tried to make a diagramm and after marking all the times for glorifications it seems, that God give us here a wonderful example of His teachings before the sun rise- (birth) in the beginning of the day (youth) , before its setting ( middle age/age) in the end of the daylight, before the dark is coming (old age) and the nights? to wake up from the daily death and remember that once we will not rise the next day... (remember the death in the nigth)
Also an allegory for the seasons ( before the new year, the spring, the summer and then the autumn and the night = winter (died season, cold , ice, frost)
All this clear my own interpretation and thoughts
peace

hawk99

Peace Melly,

At one time I erroneously thought that 20130 refered to salat, but when taken in
conjunctions with other similar verses it appears to be one of the reminders
to remember God always.
To be happy

Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify
your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him,
as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.

Surrender

All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth, throughout
the evening, as well as in the middle of your day.

Thankful

You shall remember Me, that I may remember you, and be thankful to Me;
do not be unappreciative.

Your Lord has decreed "The more you thank Me, the more I give you."
But if you turn unappreciative, then My retribution is severe.

Meditate

You shall remember your Lord within yourself, publicly,
privately, and quietly, day and night; do not be unaware.

Forgiveness

Therefore, be patient, for GOD's promise is true, and ask forgiveness
for your sin, and glorify and praise your Lord night and day.

These and such ayats enhance spiritual growth.

ONE GOD ONE WAY

mmkhan

Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify
your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him,
as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.

Salaam,

I think you mixed translation of 11114 with 20130 brother. There is no mentioned of both ends in 20130 and there is no mention of glorify Him during the night.

20130
20130 So be patient over what they say and exalt with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

I tried to classify the aayat above with colors to understand easily. Please note that purple part in Arabic is missing in the translation above. You can click on aayat number to see other translations.

So be patient over what they say
We are not going into its detail.
And repeat praise of your Lord
means to repeat something/to do something in routine at specific times. We are asked to repeat i.e., praise of your Lord before the sunrise and before it sets .
Do your routine work sometime during night and at all parts of the day
Sometime during night and all parts of the day means repeat/do your routine work. Please note is missing here as mentioned in red part above.

Tasbeeh = to do something repeatedly or in routine.

When we work in all parts of the day and in few hours during night, we will surely be satisfied and happy, this is what was said in 20130. Hope what I write is easy to follow and understand inshaAllah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

hawk99

Peace mmkhan,

The english translation is correct and sensible for english speaking folk, routine is not
grammatically correct.

Sahih International So be patient over what they say and exalt with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

"ends" is plural, so using the word "both" is ok.

ONE GOD ONE WAY

mmkhan

Peace mmkhan,

The english translation is correct and sensible for english speaking folk, routine is not
grammatically correct.

Peace Hawk99,

Well, I hope you understood what I mean by routine, I was referring it something which is done repeatedly, like daily job/work. Anyways, how will you translate 737, please note which is a derivative of in 20130.

Thank you for correction about "routine", can you please tell me how to say it correctly! Thanks.

Sahih International So be patient over what they say and exalt with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

"ends" is plural, so using the word "both" is ok.

ONE GOD ONE WAY

I prefer to translate in 20130 as parts instead of ends, and for both there is already a word means two parts in 11114. This is because ends may denote two opposite points, where parts refers to two points one after the other. This clarifies that 11114 is talking about Salaat alFajr duration when it says .

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Wakas

peace,

"both" is not suitable at all, it is "ends/edges" (plural).

hawk99

peace,
"both" is not suitable at all, it is "ends/edges" (plural).

ends = plural, can also be both ends (two) or sides/edges (plural) because it describes
the noun "day" also "both " could be considered a redundancy since "ends" of the day
would be the the two extremes.

In any case we are off topic and I hope that Melly and you "both" read the post and
comment. I have no desire to get caught up in grammatics

Peace

Melly

Peace Wouldn't it depend on whether Abraham and other prophets and also Prophet Muhammed were following a lunar or solar timing?

Thank you Lena for your response, can you elaborate on what the difference would be in terms of the solar and lunar calendar with regards to the ends of the day?

Salam

Melly

I'm not surprised you are "thrown for a loop" on 20130. When I studied this verse in detail with regard to timings, by taking it literally I could not make it work whatever way I tried, and I tried many. I therefore concluded it most likely is hyperbole or idiom, meaning all the time or lots.

Some have claimed to make this verse work with salat timings etc but all failed when I checked them.

Wakas, I was starting to think it is also meaning all the time or a lot.

Thank you for your input

Melly

Salam
The verse has (in my opinion) nothing to do with the timing of the Salat. It's an advice for every believer when he/she faces difficulties of insults from disbelievers to praise our Lord all the times. I tried to make a diagramm and after marking all the times for glorifications it seems, that God give us here a wonderful example of His teachings before the sun rise- (birth) in the beginning of the day (youth) , before its setting ( middle age/age) in the end of the daylight, before the dark is coming (old age) and the nights? to wake up from the daily death and remember that once we will not rise the next day... (remember the death in the nigth)
Also an allegory for the seasons ( before the new year, the spring, the summer and then the autumn and the night = winter (died season, cold , ice, frost)
All this clear my own interpretation and thoughts
peace )

alaykum as salam

mirjamnur, thank you for providing your view on the subject and I very much appreciate it.

Melly

Peace Melly,

At one time I erroneously thought that 20130 refered to salat, but when taken in
conjunctions with other similar verses it appears to be one of the reminders
to remember God always.
To be happy

Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify
your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him,
as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.

Surrender

All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth, throughout
the evening, as well as in the middle of your day.

Thankful

You shall remember Me, that I may remember you, and be thankful to Me;
do not be unappreciative.

Your Lord has decreed "The more you thank Me, the more I give you."
But if you turn unappreciative, then My retribution is severe.

Meditate

You shall remember your Lord within yourself, publicly,
privately, and quietly, day and night; do not be unaware.

Forgiveness

Therefore, be patient, for GOD's promise is true, and ask forgiveness
for your sin, and glorify and praise your Lord night and day.

These and such ayats enhance spiritual growth.

ONE GOD ONE WAY

Peace onto you hawkninetynine

Thank you for your reply.

I realize that tis verse does not deal with salaa , but what I was really trying to understand was if before sunrise was different from the first end of the day ( which is what I saw this verse to be implying) then what would the first end of the day be?

The reason I brought up Fajr salaa is because most people class it as both; one of the ends of the day and before sunrise, whereas this verse to me is saying pre sunrise and the end of the day are two completely different times. Maybe my view on the verse is eschewed, but if not then what would be the first end of the day since it wouldn't be pre sunrise?

Melly

Salaam,

I think you mixed translation of 11114 with 20130 brother. There is no mentioned of both ends in 20130 and there is no mention of glorify Him during the night.

20130
20130 So be patient over what they say and exalt with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

I tried to classify the aayat above with colors to understand easily. Please note that purple part in Arabic is missing in the translation above. You can click on aayat number to see other translations.

So be patient over what they say
We are not going into its detail.
And repeat praise of your Lord
means to repeat something/to do something in routine at specific times. We are asked to repeat i.e., praise of your Lord before the sunrise and before it sets .
Do your routine work sometime during night and at all parts of the day
Sometime during night and all parts of the day means repeat/do your routine work. Please note is missing here as mentioned in red part above.

Tasbeeh = to do something repeatedly or in routine.

When we work in all parts of the day and in few hours during night, we will surely be satisfied and happy, this is what was said in 20130. Hope what I write is easy to follow and understand inshaAllah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Wa alaykum as salam

mmkhan, I appreciate your input.

As per my initial post I am concerned with that would be classified as an end of the day.

I see from your translation that you se the word aTrafa as meaning parts, and I wanted to know how you derived this meaning, as it would then make my understanding clear and it would seem to imply that this is referring to times throughout the day as apposed to the ends.

abdalquran

Salam Melly,

One thing I find can elucidate meaning is reading the wider context. Often times you'll find patchy readings, people reading one aya and saying 'ok this is what it means' without even looking at where the aya is placed. To me, nothing in the Quran is accidental. There are no passing remarks. Everything contributes to our 'reading sense' as we traverse the text even if we can't comprehend it at the time.

Have a look at the context of 20/130 which I try to summarise below

20/127 God recompensing the evildoers
20/128 The generations destroyed before
20/129 If it wasn't for a kalimah preceding from Allah, they would have been destroyed.(this word 'kalimah' is VERY loaded with meaning and shouldn't be ignored here).
20/130 SO be patient with them...
20/131 and do not extend your eyes towards whats given to others
20/132 command your ppl WITH as-salaat, God gives you rizq.Why is rizq mentioned HERE for all places?

In light of this context, does this seem like timings? It doesn't to me. I think we need to be very aware of context so as to detect metaphorical language at play. Notice it's 'FA asbir' (SO be patient). If God wanted to say timings, phrases like 'kullu waqt' (all the time) would be used. There are no synonyms in the Quran nor any pointless remarks.

You might want to consider as well that this sura contains the story of musa for more than a hundred ayat. Musa's confrontation and victory over firaun resembles this passage all the way to the end. In light of that, what does tolu as-shams and ghurubiha seem like? I would ask these questions as I think they help clarify 20/130.

This Is My Take It's Nothing Special (or TIMTINS as we say in my group in FB). I am still reading and my work isn't comprehensive by any means.