SAlat
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Salam Brother Ayman,
I am afraid that I am not convinced by your interpretations
hlatif wrote
As for the physical aspect of the prayer. How can you explain those ayatsYa maryamu oqnutee lirabbiki waosjudeewairkaAAee maAAa alrrakiAAeena
"O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."[]
The three commands are related and simultaneous. There is not single verse of the great reading that says we should do "ruk3" first and then/"thuma" "sujud".
I disagree. The arabic language is full of expressions like this and they do not mean that they have to be done simltaneaously. For example we say "akal wa shareb" meaning "ate and drank" This does not necessarily mean that you ate and you drank with a single gulp. In fact, most people don't, yet they use this term. There are thousnds of examples like that.
Is "uqnoti" (be devoted) physical?
No
How can Maryam physically prostrate and bow down at the same time?
As I pointed out they don't have to be at the same time.
How do you take your arms with you while "physically prostrating". Can you take a tank with you while physically prostrating? Of course not. On the other hand, you can listen to lessons and war commands based on the great reading while manning your tank.
The Aya specifically addresses the prophet muhammad himself. There were no tanks at the time. In addition, I am not aware that SALAT can mean LESSONS and war commands.
Do you spend the whole night in physical prostration on the ground?
I don't but people better than me have done lots of prayer at night prostrating and standing.
Does this mean that someone who is handicapped cannot be amongst the people described in 2564? There is no exception given.
GOD indicated in the book that he does not ask of us what we cannot do. They have their licence.
quote]Can you stand and physically prostrate at the same time? [/quote
Again the Ayah does not say that and neither does the arabic language indicate it.
Salam and thanks for the stimulating discussion
Hussein
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Salaams Br Latif,
005.055
YUSUFALI Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
PICKTHAL Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).
SHAKIR Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.You are no daught well tallented.now looking at this ayat ,can/is Rakiuon part of the Salaat?Not to me from my understanding of the verse !
Salaams.
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Salam Brother mz357,
Thanks for the referral to the Ayah 555. The way I understant the arabic of the Ayah is closer to Shakir's understanding rather than the others
SHAKIR Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
Sahkir used While rather than AND and the Arabic is closer to that. Also I understand that the "while bowing" covers both "While paying the poor and while praying."
Having said that, your understanding is reasonable. In any case, even if the Rukouu was not mentioned as part of prayer in this Ayah, this does not necessarily exclude Rukouu from prayer.
For example you wash your hands when you are getting ready to eat. This will not prevent you from washing your hands when you are ready to pray or when you use the bathroom. It is not mutually exclusive.
Salam brother
Hussein
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Peace brother Hussein,
I disagree. The arabic language is full of expressions like this and they do not mean that they have to be done simltaneaously. For example we say "akal wa shareb" meaning "ate and drank" This does not necessarily mean that you ate and you drank with a single gulp. In fact, most people don't, yet they use this term. There are thousnds of examples like that.
This is a good example, in 2187 we hear "kulu wa ishrabu" (eat and drink) and it doesn't mean that we should eat first and then drink. Some people would drink while others are eating. Hence, there is no specific order. In other instances it is used to indicate simultaneous action sort of like "while" in English. In the instance of 343 was Maryam "devout" then she was no longer devout and "did sujud" then she was no longer in "sujud" and "did ruku3"? No, she was devout all along and in "sujud" all along.
How do you take your arms with you while "physically prostrating". Can you take a tank with you while physically prostrating? Of course not. On the other hand, you can listen to lessons and war commands based on the great reading while manning your tank.
The Aya specifically addresses the prophet muhammad himself. There were no tanks at the time. In addition, I am not aware that SALAT can mean LESSONS and war commands.
According to evidence from the great reading, the term "salat" describes a learning process/connection not some ritual. Hence, when it is said that The God "yusali" on those who have faith, this doesn't mean that He bows and prostrates in a 2,4,4,3,4 mechnical ritual. It means that He teaches those who have faith. Remember that The God is the Teacher of the reading.
How else do we remember other than by learning? On the other hand, a ritual only makes us remember the mechanical steps but makes us forget the purpose. In the context of war, what would you need to learn?
Do you spend the whole night in physical prostration on the ground?
I don't but people better than me have done lots of prayer at night prostrating and standing.
No sane and balanced person does.
Does this mean that someone who is handicapped cannot be amongst the people described in 2564? There is no exception given.
GOD indicated in the book that he does not ask of us what we cannot do. They have their licence.
When someone can't do something, for example "sawm"/abstaining and "7ajj", The God gives them license. There is NEVER such license in the case of "salat", "sujud", and "ruku3". Why give license in the case of "sawm" but no license in the case of "salat"?
Again, If you see "sujud" primary meaning as physical, it is fine, just obey The God and do your "sujud" to the chin and NOT the forehead. Othersiwe, please tell us what is your source for "sujud" being to the forehead?
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
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Salaam Hlatif,
This is what/how i underetsand it
555
Only your friend (is)Allah and his Messenger and those who believe those who establish the salaat and give zakaat and they (are) those who bow down.
But you take it as you see it thanks.
God bless,
Bye. -
Peace all.
RAAKIcON = THOSE WHO BOW
SAAJIDON = THOSE WHO PROSTRATE
And be steadfast in prayer; practice regular charity; and (IRKAcO) bow down (MacA) with (AR- RAAKIcEN) THOSE who bow down. 243
"O Mary! worship thy Lord devoutly; prostrate thyself and (IRKAcE) bow down (MacA) with (AR- RAAKIcEN) THOSE who bow down." 343
Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah His Apostle and the (fellowship of) believers those who establish regular prayers and regular charity (WA HUM) and they (are) (RAAKIcON) THOSE who bow down 555
(Triumphant) are (AT- TAA'IBON ) THOSE who turn repentant (to Allah), (AL- cAABIDON) those who serve (Him), (AL- H.AAMIDON) THOSE who praise (Him), (AS- SAA'IH.ON) THOSE who fast, (AR RAAKIcON) THOSE who bow down, (AS- SAAJIDON) THOSE who fall prostrate, (AL- 'AAMIRON) THOSE who enjoin the right and who forbid the wrong and (AL- H.AAFIZ.ON) THOSE who keep the limits (ordained) of Allah And give glad tidings to believers! 9112
This is enough for brother HUSSEIN
Thanks
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Salams to brothers Ayman, mz357 and Kazi,
Thanks Brother Hafeez for your response.
I will respond to brother Ayman first and then to brother mz357
In the instance of 343 was Maryam "devout" then she was no longer devout and "did sujud" then she was no longer in "sujud" and "did ruku3"? No, she was devout all along and in "sujud" all along.
Just because she remains devout, does not mean that the other actions have to be simultaneous as well.
When someone can't do something, for example "sawm"/abstaining and "7ajj", The God gives them license. There is NEVER such license in the case of "salat", "sujud", and "ruku3". Why give license in the case of "sawm" but no license in the case of "salat"?
GOD asks us to do what we can do
La yukallifu Allahu nafsanilla wusAAaha laha ma kasabatwaAAalayha ma iktasabat rabbana latu-akhithna in naseena aw akhta/narabbana wala tahmil AAalayna isrankama hamaltahu AAala allatheena minqablina rabbana wala tuhammilnama la taqata lana bihi waoAAfuAAanna waighfir lana wairhamnaanta mawlana faonsurna AAalaalqawmi alkafireena
On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."Therefore, a person in a wheel chair will be asked to do what he/she can.
Again, If you see "sujud" primary meaning as physical, it is fine, just obey The God and do your "sujud" to the chin and NOT the forehead. Othersiwe, please tell us what is your source for "sujud" being to the forehead?
According to "Qamus Muheet" one of the meanings of the root (SJD) and it's derivatives is "To tilt the head down" . The lowest point that you can tilt your head down to is "Till your chin stops" which is when the chin touches the chest. I explained this in an earlier post.
As for brother mz357, you mentioned
and they (are) those who bow down.
I will go to the literal arabic trasnlation to explain my point
"Wa Hum Rakioun"
Wa means "and"
Hum means "They"
Rakioun means "Bowing" The whole thing becomes "and they bowing"
I add that there is not a word "While" in arabic and the "Wa" is used to mean "while"So, I see "and they bowing" as a description/adjective of the ones that pray and pay alms, adn not as a separate action as you see it. GOD knows best
I hope that I am helpful to y'all, because you have been helpful to me in many ways through our disagreements.
Hussein
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Peace brother Hussein,
In the instance of 343 was Maryam "devout" then she was no longer devout and "did sujud" then she was no longer in "sujud" and "did ruku3"? No, she was devout all along and in "sujud" all along.
Just because she remains devout, does not mean that the other actions have to be simultaneous as well.
So at least you acknowledge that the first "wa"/and does denote a simultaneous action. So what reason do you have to understand the second "wa" and the third "wa" differently and not consistently with the first one?
There is another verse that says "li Allah yasjud ma fi al-samawat wa ma fi al-ard". The verb yasjud is in the CONTINUOUS present tense.
Clearly, one can CONTIUOUSLY hear and obey The God but not continuously physically push his head against the floor.
When someone can't do something, for example "sawm"/abstaining and "7ajj", The God gives them license. There is NEVER such license in the case of "salat", "sujud", and "ruku3". Why give license in the case of "sawm" but no license in the case of "salat"?
GOD asks us to do what we can do
La yukallifu Allahu nafsanilla wusAAaha laha ma kasabatwaAAalayha ma iktasabat rabbana latu-akhithna in naseena aw akhta/narabbana wala tahmil AAalayna isrankama hamaltahu AAala allatheena minqablina rabbana wala tuhammilnama la taqata lana bihi waoAAfuAAanna waighfir lana wairhamnaanta mawlana faonsurna AAalaalqawmi alkafireena
On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."Therefore, a person in a wheel chair will be asked to do what he/she can.
Despite the above, The God gives very specific exceptions in the case of the less important "sawm" and "7ajj". Why does He give no license for the even more important "sala"? I don't think that it is a coincidence.
Again, If you see "sujud" primary meaning as physical, it is fine, just obey The God and do your "sujud" to the chin and NOT the forehead. Othersiwe, please tell us what is your source for "sujud" being to the forehead?
According to "Qamus Muheet" one of the meanings of the root (SJD) and it's derivatives is "To tilt the head down" . The lowest point that you can tilt your head down to is "Till your chin stops" which is when the chin touches the chest. I explained this in an earlier post.
But that is not how you do your "sujud". Do you do your "sujud" by having your head fall to your chest? (i.e. like nodding "yes")
Again, you have to obey what you understand the verse is asking you to do, which is clearly not the traditional so-called "sujud".
You didn't answer my question. WHERE DID YOU GET THE SUJUD TO THE FOREHEAD FROM?
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
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Salam Brother Ayman,
I hope that this note finds well. This will probably be my last post on the subject and therefore, I will address some of your points. Then I will present our agreements and disagreements. Then, I will present my own personal view of Salat.
There is another verse that says "li Allah yasjud ma fi al-samawat wa ma fi al-ard". The verb yasjud is in the CONTINUOUS present tense.
I agree that here, Sujud definitely means submission. I also agree that the meaning that unifies all the mentions of Sujood in the Qur'an is Submission. However, I also believe that there is physical Sujood as well that is menioned in many Ayat. This physical Sujood is not mutually exclusive of the mental/psychological Sujood. That is all.
Despite the above, The God gives very specific exceptions in the case of the less important "sawm" and "7ajj". Why does He give no license for the even more important "sala"? I don't think that it is a coincidence.
That is because, in the case of "Sawm and Hajj" GOD gives people a license not to perform them. In the case of Salat, GOD DOES NOT give a license not to perform Salat. GOD gives a license to perform Salat according to our physical abilities. This is a big difference.
But that is not how you do your "sujud". Do you do your "sujud" by having your head fall to your chest? (i.e. like nodding "yes")
This is how I undesrtand "Yakhirroon lilathkan Sujjadan" now. "Tilting head downard like a very shy/very embarrassed/somebody in presence of a much higher authority". Again, this understanding does not necessarily exclude that Sujood in other Ayat is touching your forehead on the floor.
WHERE DID YOU GET THE SUJUD TO THE FOREHEAD FROM?
This is what I understood from reading "Qamus Muheet"
Meanings for SJD and derivatives Submission, Putting something against something (as in head against a wall or ground), Tilting the head downward, bowing down. Basically it means psychological/mental submission in addition to any physical signs of Submission (whatever they are.
A Very Interesting word that I discovered is MASJAD which means FORHEAD. This word is not to be confused with MASJID which means a place where people perform Sujood. Both words share the plural MASAJID.So putting your forehead(Masjad) against the ground is consistent with Sujood so are the other movements and so does the mental/psychological Sujood.
NEXT
I think that we agree on the fact that Prayer is a personal business between the person and his/her GOD, and we agree on the importance of the psychological/mental submission.I sense that we disagree in the fact that you do not believe in the physical Sujood (please forgive me if I am assuming incorrectly). While I believe that there is physical Sujood (whatever it means to the person). Despite your very well thought points, I am not yet convinced that there is not a physical Sujood.
Last HOW I VIEW SALAT (My personal view)
1- It is a personal time between the Servant and His/her GOD. It is up to the person to optimize this contact. The language that is used should the clearest to the person that does the praying (therefore not necessarily ARABIC). I believe that GOD did not leave specific instructions on how to perform SALAT for a reason.
2- Number of SALATS The Qur'an does not give a maximuam number of SALATS. The minimum should probably be at least two. The more that you can do the better, as long as it does not take you away from your obligations to yourself, your family, and your society.
3- I believe in some physical aspect to SALAT based on my own understanding of 243, and 4102. This may include "Rukou" "bowing down" and Sujood "any sign of submission to GOD whether it is touching the forehead on the ground or any other sign is up to the person's understanding". Both movements should complement our feeling of submission to GOD. I do believe that PHYSICAL SALAT can augment our spiritual SALAT if done properly (very much like YOGA or meditation, MAY GOD forgive me for using this analogy)
At the end, THANK you brother for this stmulating discussion. I have learnt a lot through it and MAY GOD be with you.
SALAM
Hussein
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Salaams Hlatif,
A very interesting word you have managed to discover!
could you ,for the benefit of us ,point out where you managed to find thisYou said
"A Very Interesting word that I discovered is MASJAD which means FORHEAD. "
I meant which lxicon or dictionary or what ever Thanks.
Bye.
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As'Salaam Alaikum,
I am new to the list and I am not as versed in Arabic as it seems many members of the list are, but I am not new to Islam or ritual.
It is my understanding that ritual is simply the act of "consciously" inviting the Sacred into one's life, this can be done in many ways. One may read the Qur'an on a daily basis, deriving all kinds of intellectual conclusions as to what it says and yet never actively allow the wisdom contained therein to become a part of one's daily life, via their conduct towards themselves and others. If someone feels a need to consciously engage their mind and body in a way that reinforces their understanding of Allah's system and order within their being I think that they should do so, if someone feels that this is not necessary then they should refrain from it.
According to the interpretations and points I have seen neither view can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, so each individual should follow the understanding that Allah has bestowed upon them, in their proportion.
There are those who remember Allah by simply being mindful of their breath as they recite the Qur'an, some who feel a need to engage the mind and body in a concerted effort, some who only read the signs in the Qur'an, while others read the signs that are prevalent throughout Allah's creation. Who is to say who is right? Again, if we use the Qur'an as our guide it is obvious to me that there have been valid points made by many and all of them using the Qur'an as the basis of their viewpoint.
If an individual feels the need to bow and prostrate in order to keep Allah foremost in their mind, then it cannot be referred to as useless ritual. It is useful to those who feel a need to do so, we cannot dismiss them or deny them their approach. If an individual does not feel a need for this type of physical observance then we cannot force them to do so.
Let us be careful that we do not become so attached to our intellects that we refuse to acknowledge the understanding Allah has placed in the hearts of our brothers and sisters so that they remember Hu, as Hu remembers them.Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Olusanya,
Yes, the traditional ritual of (2,4,4,3,4) has been proven incorrect, WAY beyond the shadow of a doubt.
You mentioned that one should bring the spiritual into the physical, yes, but the physical is not putting your face in the ground, the physical is putting your hand in your pocket and giving to the poor, physically speaking out against corruption, physically taking car eof orphans, actions of PURPOSE. Even Qi Gong (movements designed to circulate your "chi/kundalina/ra/ruh" around the body are more beneficial than this dead ritual of "salaat" given by the "islamic scholars".
I was taught that same thing we were all taught, but its time for us to wake up and stand straight.
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Peace be upon you Olusanya,
Yes, the traditional ritual of (2,4,4,3,4) has been proven incorrect, WAY beyond the shadow of a doubt.
You mentioned that one should bring the spiritual into the physical, yes, but the physical is not putting your face in the ground, the physical is putting your hand in your pocket and giving to the poor, physically speaking out against corruption, physically taking car eof orphans, actions of PURPOSE. Even Qi Gong (movements designed to circulate your "chi/kundalina/ra/ruh" around the body are more beneficial than this dead ritual of "salaat" given by the "islamic scholars".
I was taught that same thing we were all taught, but its time for us to wake up and stand straight.
As'Salaam Idolfree1,
They are both "physical" acts, and it is the niyat/intention that gives both of them their purpose. Kerry spoke out against the corruption of Bush, and yet Kerry is also a corrupt individual. Does his speaking out count? Bush has American airplanes drop bombs one day and boxes of food another day. Is that zakat?
I do not pray 5 times a day, but whenever I do I stand, bow , and prostrate... practicing mindfulness of my breath as I recite the Qur'an and it has very much the effect of a Qi Gong moving meditation, uniting my mind and body in the remembrance of Allah. I also practice Tai Chi, Yoga, and Pilates. They all help me to keep my physical composition healthy, united with my mind and better able to be of service to Allah's creation.
I cannot tell you that you should do these things because I cannot know what is in your heart or mind. Allah does, so Hu will guide you according to your proportion and as your brother I will support you in your growth and development, as long as you are not causing harm to Allah's creation.Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Olusanya,
They are both "physical" acts, and it is the niyat/intention that gives both of them their purpose
So what is the "intention" of one who does the traditional (2,4,4,3,4) salaat? Can we say thier intention is to obey the God, while they have not verified if the God asked them to do that?
Kerry spoke out against the corruption of Bush, and yet Kerry is also a corrupt individual. Does his speaking out count?
Yes, it counts because any truthful message is from the God, no matter whose bodythe sounds come from.
Bush has American airplanes drop bombs one day and boxes of food another day. Is that zakat?
Zakaat means purification, I think you mean to say Sadaqa, which is charity. But to answer the question, yes, that is charity, but his evil outweighs the good, so he fails.
I do not pray 5 times a day, but whenever I do I stand, bow , and prostrate... practicing mindfulness of my breath as I recite the Qur'an and it has very much the effect of a Qi Gong moving meditation, uniting my mind and body in the remembrance of Allah.
Let me give you something to consider, the God tells us to maintain salaat while we are STILL (capatalization for emphasis, not yelling). When we are fearing, we are to do salaat walking or riding(moving), but when we are free of danger, we maintain salaat in a stationary position. Why is that? Because "salaat" is not prayer, it is the process of learning. Just like in schol, you sit stationary in a desk while you learn because you can focus better when you are stationary, unlike while you are moving, which is why we are only allowed to move when we fear the enemy, otherwise we should be still. So while I personally recommend Qi Gong, mindfulness of breath , etc, the God tells us to be stationary while maintaing "salaat" so those other techniques should be done seperately.
I also practice Tai Chi, Yoga, and Pilates. They all help me to keep my physical composition healthy, united with my mind and better able to be of service to Allah's creation.
Yes, those are very good. Qi Gong helps us to circulate the energy we get from our food to al of the cells in the body, so it is beneficial, as is Tai Chi, Yoga, and Pilates. But the reading(quran) tells us to remain stationary
I cannot tell you that you should do these things because I cannot know what is in your heart or mind. Allah does, so Hu will guide you according to your proportion and as your brother I will support you in your growth and development, as long as you are not causing harm to Allah's creation.
Likewise, and I remind you with sincere humbleness regarding being stationary while mainting the salaat so that you might grow and develop as the God advises. I look foward to your thoughts on what I have said.
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As'Salaam Idolfree1,
Excellent points, expressed clearly!
I cannot know the intention of those who do the 2,4,4,3,4 (sounds like dance steps lol ), so I reserve comment on that. I will say that, previous to your making the point of stillness it has been my practice to stand, bow, and prostate and I know fully what my intentions have been.
It seems to me that one's "interpretation" will determine how they act upon the words of the Qur'an, Allah guides us according to Hu's will. I can look at our discussion as having been guided, so that I could come to understand the stillness of salaat, however that does not negate my previous practice. Would I have arrived at this moment without it? Everything happens for a reason, so I hesitate to negate another individuals choices... Allah is guiding them, not me. If they make wrong decisions that is part of their growth process... they will have to be responsible for the results of their actions, and Allah will hold them accountable.
Where is the ayat explaining the stillness of salaat? I would like to refer to it.
Shukran for your insights! This is the dialogue I have joined this website to participate in and learn from!
By the way... although all of my practices are for the same purpose they do remain separate, except for mindful breathing... I maintain that throughout everything I do.
Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Olusanya,
Excellent points, expressed clearly!
That is indeed the greatest compliment, when someone feels as though your message was expressed CLEARLY, for that is what we should strive to do, deliver the CLEAR message. But indeed, all appreciation is for the God, I only humbly ask that the God increases our knowledge.
I cannot know the intention of those who do the 2,4,4,3,4 (sounds like dance steps ), so I reserve comment on that. I will say that, previous to your making the point of stillness it has been my practice to stand, bow, and prostate and I know fully what my intentions have been.
It seems to me that one's "interpretation" will determine how they act upon the words of the Qur'an, Allah guides us according to Hu's will. I can look at our discussion as having been guided, so that I could come to understand the stillness of salaat, however that does not negate my previous practice. Would I have arrived at this moment without it? Everything happens for a reason, so I hesitate to negate another individuals choices... Allah is guiding them, not me. If they make wrong decisions that is part of their growth process... they will have to be responsible for the results of their actions, and Allah will hold them accountable.
Yes, very well said and I do agree. But it is a very delicate balance because we cannot conceal the truth while we know nor mix the truth with falsehood. SO when the topic arises, I can only state what is clearly being said in the God's message. What suggestions, based on what I have just said, would you recommend when confronted with one that does (2,4,4,3,4) ritual? Should we just allow them to continue on that path with no warning from us who know? What should we do?
Where is the ayat explaining the stillness of salaat? I would like to refer to it.
I obtain the stillness from the following deduction;
(2238-239) Guard on the learning process(salaat), and the learning process (is) the balance(al wusta), and maintain to The God devoutly. So if you feared, so walking or riding (movement) , so if you became safe/secure , so remember The God, as He taught you what you were not knowing.
The God also asks us to reflect on all that we read in His message, once we are secure in the understanding that "salaat" is thelearning process, all we have to do is reflect on how we learn best, are we moving, or stationary?
Shukran for your insights! This is the dialogue I have joined this website to participate in and learn from!
I am certain you have much to offer from the responses I have seen from you already, that is my opinion of course I look foward to more discussions.
By the way... although all of my practices are for the same purpose they do remain separate, except for mindful breathing... I maintain that throughout everything I do.
Breathing is something that has just beeen explained to me in a clear manner, so I am just starting to be mindful of it. It seems that all of the useful information that I learn is found in the reading(quiran), but I cannot think of any verse about our breathing, are there any that you might be aware of that I have missed?
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As'Salaam Alaikum IdolFree1,
My mindfulness of breath is a result of the experience of my "being" while reciting the Qur'an, and my understanding of ayats 287,253; 5110; 16102; as well as 6612 referred to by MQ in another thread. These all refer to the Spirit breathed into different individuals by Allah through Jabril. The Qur'an I use defines "Ruh" as Holy Breath. It is this interpretation, coupled with my understanding that control of one's breath is the best way to still the thought processes, allowing ones self to be inspired by the direct experience of Allah. Focusing on my breath also allows me to be more acutely aware of the meaning of whatever Surah and ayat I am reciting, again... allowing a clearer awareness of what is being perceived by my being, unencumbered by too much thought.
It is also the easiest way to bring the mind and body into harmony with each other and align them with the spirit that moves along the currents of our breath.
I am aware that some may not agree or see this, but I do what works for me, and mindfulness of breath has improved my dhikr tremendously, also given me more insight into how I function as a human being.Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace
I have a question about this verse about intercession anybody and everybody's comment will be appreciated. I wanted to know what everyone had to say about
034.023
YUSUFALI "No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has granted permission. So far (is this the case) that, when terror is removed from their hearts (at the Day of Judgment, then) will they say, 'what is it that your Lord commanded?' they will say, 'That which is true and just; and He is the Most High Most Great'."
PICKTHAL No intercession availeth with Him save for him whom He permitteth. Yet, when fear is banished from their hearts, they say What was it that your Lord said? They say The Truth. And He is the Sublime, the Great.
SHAKIR And intercession will not avail aught with Him save of him whom He permits. Until when fear shall be removed from their hearts, They shall say What is it that your Lord said? They shall say The truth. And He is the Most High, the Great.I also had a comment about salat. I have been coming in here for a while now and I just recently got a name. I have noticed peoples comments about salat and it seems as though everyone has a different perspective of salat and base it on daleel which makes me get this sense of uniformity. I look at sunnis and I see that they have a standard way of making salat and paying zakat (even though they have discrepensies between IMAMS, religous sects, and schools of thoughts, and others) it seems as tho there they have some sort of basic understanding. I am a brother trying to find the truth because I dont feel as though the hadith are right but I need to know if anyone has noticed what I noticed or if anyone had some comments about what I am saying.
JAZAAKALLAH
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Peace be upon you Olusanya,
My mindfulness of breath is a result of the experience of my "being" while reciting the Qur'an, and my understanding of ayats 287,253; 5110; 16102; as well as 6612 referred to by MQ in another thread. These all refer to the Spirit breathed into different individuals by Allah through Jabril. The Qur'an I use defines "Ruh" as Holy Breath. It is this interpretation, coupled with my understanding that control of one's breath is the best way to still the thought processes, allowing ones self to be inspired by the direct experience of Allah. Focusing on my breath also allows me to be more acutely aware of the meaning of whatever Surah and ayat I am reciting, again... allowing a clearer awareness of what is being perceived by my being, unencumbered by too much thought.
It is also the easiest way to bring the mind and body into harmony with each other and align them with the spirit that moves along the currents of our breath.
I am aware that some may not agree or see this, but I do what works for me, and mindfulness of breath has improved my dhikr tremendously, also given me more insight into how I function as a human being.Excellent! I can't believe I forgot that "ruh" carries the meaning of breath. Thank you for the reminder, it helps tremendously. I for one can understand exactly what you are stating.