SAlat
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Peace be upon you Olusanya,
Yes, the traditional ritual of (2,4,4,3,4) has been proven incorrect, WAY beyond the shadow of a doubt.
You mentioned that one should bring the spiritual into the physical, yes, but the physical is not putting your face in the ground, the physical is putting your hand in your pocket and giving to the poor, physically speaking out against corruption, physically taking car eof orphans, actions of PURPOSE. Even Qi Gong (movements designed to circulate your "chi/kundalina/ra/ruh" around the body are more beneficial than this dead ritual of "salaat" given by the "islamic scholars".
I was taught that same thing we were all taught, but its time for us to wake up and stand straight.
As'Salaam Idolfree1,
They are both "physical" acts, and it is the niyat/intention that gives both of them their purpose. Kerry spoke out against the corruption of Bush, and yet Kerry is also a corrupt individual. Does his speaking out count? Bush has American airplanes drop bombs one day and boxes of food another day. Is that zakat?
I do not pray 5 times a day, but whenever I do I stand, bow , and prostrate... practicing mindfulness of my breath as I recite the Qur'an and it has very much the effect of a Qi Gong moving meditation, uniting my mind and body in the remembrance of Allah. I also practice Tai Chi, Yoga, and Pilates. They all help me to keep my physical composition healthy, united with my mind and better able to be of service to Allah's creation.
I cannot tell you that you should do these things because I cannot know what is in your heart or mind. Allah does, so Hu will guide you according to your proportion and as your brother I will support you in your growth and development, as long as you are not causing harm to Allah's creation.Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Olusanya,
They are both "physical" acts, and it is the niyat/intention that gives both of them their purpose
So what is the "intention" of one who does the traditional (2,4,4,3,4) salaat? Can we say thier intention is to obey the God, while they have not verified if the God asked them to do that?
Kerry spoke out against the corruption of Bush, and yet Kerry is also a corrupt individual. Does his speaking out count?
Yes, it counts because any truthful message is from the God, no matter whose bodythe sounds come from.
Bush has American airplanes drop bombs one day and boxes of food another day. Is that zakat?
Zakaat means purification, I think you mean to say Sadaqa, which is charity. But to answer the question, yes, that is charity, but his evil outweighs the good, so he fails.
I do not pray 5 times a day, but whenever I do I stand, bow , and prostrate... practicing mindfulness of my breath as I recite the Qur'an and it has very much the effect of a Qi Gong moving meditation, uniting my mind and body in the remembrance of Allah.
Let me give you something to consider, the God tells us to maintain salaat while we are STILL (capatalization for emphasis, not yelling). When we are fearing, we are to do salaat walking or riding(moving), but when we are free of danger, we maintain salaat in a stationary position. Why is that? Because "salaat" is not prayer, it is the process of learning. Just like in schol, you sit stationary in a desk while you learn because you can focus better when you are stationary, unlike while you are moving, which is why we are only allowed to move when we fear the enemy, otherwise we should be still. So while I personally recommend Qi Gong, mindfulness of breath , etc, the God tells us to be stationary while maintaing "salaat" so those other techniques should be done seperately.
I also practice Tai Chi, Yoga, and Pilates. They all help me to keep my physical composition healthy, united with my mind and better able to be of service to Allah's creation.
Yes, those are very good. Qi Gong helps us to circulate the energy we get from our food to al of the cells in the body, so it is beneficial, as is Tai Chi, Yoga, and Pilates. But the reading(quran) tells us to remain stationary
I cannot tell you that you should do these things because I cannot know what is in your heart or mind. Allah does, so Hu will guide you according to your proportion and as your brother I will support you in your growth and development, as long as you are not causing harm to Allah's creation.
Likewise, and I remind you with sincere humbleness regarding being stationary while mainting the salaat so that you might grow and develop as the God advises. I look foward to your thoughts on what I have said.
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As'Salaam Idolfree1,
Excellent points, expressed clearly!
I cannot know the intention of those who do the 2,4,4,3,4 (sounds like dance steps lol ), so I reserve comment on that. I will say that, previous to your making the point of stillness it has been my practice to stand, bow, and prostate and I know fully what my intentions have been.
It seems to me that one's "interpretation" will determine how they act upon the words of the Qur'an, Allah guides us according to Hu's will. I can look at our discussion as having been guided, so that I could come to understand the stillness of salaat, however that does not negate my previous practice. Would I have arrived at this moment without it? Everything happens for a reason, so I hesitate to negate another individuals choices... Allah is guiding them, not me. If they make wrong decisions that is part of their growth process... they will have to be responsible for the results of their actions, and Allah will hold them accountable.
Where is the ayat explaining the stillness of salaat? I would like to refer to it.
Shukran for your insights! This is the dialogue I have joined this website to participate in and learn from!
By the way... although all of my practices are for the same purpose they do remain separate, except for mindful breathing... I maintain that throughout everything I do.
Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Olusanya,
Excellent points, expressed clearly!
That is indeed the greatest compliment, when someone feels as though your message was expressed CLEARLY, for that is what we should strive to do, deliver the CLEAR message. But indeed, all appreciation is for the God, I only humbly ask that the God increases our knowledge.
I cannot know the intention of those who do the 2,4,4,3,4 (sounds like dance steps ), so I reserve comment on that. I will say that, previous to your making the point of stillness it has been my practice to stand, bow, and prostate and I know fully what my intentions have been.
It seems to me that one's "interpretation" will determine how they act upon the words of the Qur'an, Allah guides us according to Hu's will. I can look at our discussion as having been guided, so that I could come to understand the stillness of salaat, however that does not negate my previous practice. Would I have arrived at this moment without it? Everything happens for a reason, so I hesitate to negate another individuals choices... Allah is guiding them, not me. If they make wrong decisions that is part of their growth process... they will have to be responsible for the results of their actions, and Allah will hold them accountable.
Yes, very well said and I do agree. But it is a very delicate balance because we cannot conceal the truth while we know nor mix the truth with falsehood. SO when the topic arises, I can only state what is clearly being said in the God's message. What suggestions, based on what I have just said, would you recommend when confronted with one that does (2,4,4,3,4) ritual? Should we just allow them to continue on that path with no warning from us who know? What should we do?
Where is the ayat explaining the stillness of salaat? I would like to refer to it.
I obtain the stillness from the following deduction;
(2238-239) Guard on the learning process(salaat), and the learning process (is) the balance(al wusta), and maintain to The God devoutly. So if you feared, so walking or riding (movement) , so if you became safe/secure , so remember The God, as He taught you what you were not knowing.
The God also asks us to reflect on all that we read in His message, once we are secure in the understanding that "salaat" is thelearning process, all we have to do is reflect on how we learn best, are we moving, or stationary?
Shukran for your insights! This is the dialogue I have joined this website to participate in and learn from!
I am certain you have much to offer from the responses I have seen from you already, that is my opinion of course I look foward to more discussions.
By the way... although all of my practices are for the same purpose they do remain separate, except for mindful breathing... I maintain that throughout everything I do.
Breathing is something that has just beeen explained to me in a clear manner, so I am just starting to be mindful of it. It seems that all of the useful information that I learn is found in the reading(quiran), but I cannot think of any verse about our breathing, are there any that you might be aware of that I have missed?
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As'Salaam Alaikum IdolFree1,
My mindfulness of breath is a result of the experience of my "being" while reciting the Qur'an, and my understanding of ayats 287,253; 5110; 16102; as well as 6612 referred to by MQ in another thread. These all refer to the Spirit breathed into different individuals by Allah through Jabril. The Qur'an I use defines "Ruh" as Holy Breath. It is this interpretation, coupled with my understanding that control of one's breath is the best way to still the thought processes, allowing ones self to be inspired by the direct experience of Allah. Focusing on my breath also allows me to be more acutely aware of the meaning of whatever Surah and ayat I am reciting, again... allowing a clearer awareness of what is being perceived by my being, unencumbered by too much thought.
It is also the easiest way to bring the mind and body into harmony with each other and align them with the spirit that moves along the currents of our breath.
I am aware that some may not agree or see this, but I do what works for me, and mindfulness of breath has improved my dhikr tremendously, also given me more insight into how I function as a human being.Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace
I have a question about this verse about intercession anybody and everybody's comment will be appreciated. I wanted to know what everyone had to say about
034.023
YUSUFALI "No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has granted permission. So far (is this the case) that, when terror is removed from their hearts (at the Day of Judgment, then) will they say, 'what is it that your Lord commanded?' they will say, 'That which is true and just; and He is the Most High Most Great'."
PICKTHAL No intercession availeth with Him save for him whom He permitteth. Yet, when fear is banished from their hearts, they say What was it that your Lord said? They say The Truth. And He is the Sublime, the Great.
SHAKIR And intercession will not avail aught with Him save of him whom He permits. Until when fear shall be removed from their hearts, They shall say What is it that your Lord said? They shall say The truth. And He is the Most High, the Great.I also had a comment about salat. I have been coming in here for a while now and I just recently got a name. I have noticed peoples comments about salat and it seems as though everyone has a different perspective of salat and base it on daleel which makes me get this sense of uniformity. I look at sunnis and I see that they have a standard way of making salat and paying zakat (even though they have discrepensies between IMAMS, religous sects, and schools of thoughts, and others) it seems as tho there they have some sort of basic understanding. I am a brother trying to find the truth because I dont feel as though the hadith are right but I need to know if anyone has noticed what I noticed or if anyone had some comments about what I am saying.
JAZAAKALLAH
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Peace be upon you Olusanya,
My mindfulness of breath is a result of the experience of my "being" while reciting the Qur'an, and my understanding of ayats 287,253; 5110; 16102; as well as 6612 referred to by MQ in another thread. These all refer to the Spirit breathed into different individuals by Allah through Jabril. The Qur'an I use defines "Ruh" as Holy Breath. It is this interpretation, coupled with my understanding that control of one's breath is the best way to still the thought processes, allowing ones self to be inspired by the direct experience of Allah. Focusing on my breath also allows me to be more acutely aware of the meaning of whatever Surah and ayat I am reciting, again... allowing a clearer awareness of what is being perceived by my being, unencumbered by too much thought.
It is also the easiest way to bring the mind and body into harmony with each other and align them with the spirit that moves along the currents of our breath.
I am aware that some may not agree or see this, but I do what works for me, and mindfulness of breath has improved my dhikr tremendously, also given me more insight into how I function as a human being.Excellent! I can't believe I forgot that "ruh" carries the meaning of breath. Thank you for the reminder, it helps tremendously. I for one can understand exactly what you are stating.
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Peace be upon you Thesis,
I have much to say, but not a lot of time right now to put it all together. I will just say that it is easy to agree on an EXTERNAL/Objective physical act, it is not as simple to agree on something INTERNAL.
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I was just interested on somethings that i am not clear on what your interpretation of certain ayat.
Like for example for Friday prayer what is the understanding behind this
062.009
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) That is best for you if ye but knew!
PICKTHAL O ye who believe! When the call is heard for the prayer of the day of congregation, haste unto remembrance of Allah and leave your trading. That is better for you if ye did but know.
SHAKIR O you who believe! when the call is made for prayer on Friday, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know.and I want to know what is your judgement on smoking cigerettes and smoking marijuana because neither are mentioned directly in the Qu'ran
And please continue on explaining salat for me please
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Peace be upon you Thesis 125,
The word being translated as "friday" means assembly.
The verse is basically saying when you are assembled and it is time for the "salaat" leave all that you are doing because the LEARNING PROCESS is what will bring the God's help, not any buisness transaction.