"No Rituals"? What about 5:6?
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Man of faith, you said your things, I said mine, you seem to think that everything I said was intended for you. No. It was intended in general, what you wrote, simply, pushed me to state something general so that particular feelings or ideas should not cloud the most important fact of what the Qur'an states or does not state.
We all consider and ponder things which may help to explain to ourselves why this or that happened at one time or another. That was not my purpose, but simply to leave no room for doubt about what the Qur'an warrants or does not warrant concerning that ritual of salaa and fasting and the unquranicity of bring mestruation into a single construction with it.
Not thinking of you nor answering toyour personal opinions, but just what you stated moved me to make that point, which even if I did after reading your message is not directed to you or anybody in particular, but in general terms.
Salaam
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Salaam,
Okay, thanks for your clarification. We can then conclude that the Quran does not forbid praying nor fasting while menstruating.
God bless you
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Salaam,
The last thing thou said, sister, about menstruating women.
There is a verse which tells not to approach women when they have their menstruation, because their are unclean, so does that not mean that praying is also recommended to abstain from?
I mean, if a woman is unclean during this period, is it not wrong to approach the prayers in this condition when you should be clean?
What is ceremonial impurity as I could read in 443 of Abdullah Yusuf Ali' s translation of Quran?
I am not a sexist or anything like that, I was just thinking out of my interpretation of the Quran.
Meanwhile, I think that it is not the same as having intercourse, and women with their tools to stop the bleeding is quite efficient today, so it would not prevent praying more than a plaster on the skin.
My wife abstains from praying during her period, but that has to do with tradition.
Anyway, I think it is up to each woman to determine, some women maybe feel uncomfortable praying during this period.
Of course, what I wrote above is depending on whether you see Salat as a "ritual" or not (I think ritual is the most worn out word on this forum).
I say that people should live in a state of prayer at all times, so this means physical praying loss for a women would not mean everything in the world. Most of your Faith is determined upon your righteousness, such as charity and personality.
God bless you, believing women, and men
I have thought that my post could be misunderstood. I know that- of course- the Quan never mentioned something about a ban on menstruation. I got to thinking how this ban could have found its way into the secondary sources - and my conclusion was that it may have been in the time of the Prophet women who were ashamed and so did not going to the common prayer in state of menstruation. And probably this behavior led to the ban in the secondary sources (Ahadithes).
Sorry, I just thought too much and do not written it. Wanted no confusion.
THERE IS NO PROHIBITION IN THE QURAN.Huruf thank you for clarification and also sorry, that i don't write clear )
Salam
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I am very alarmed. The traditional position was that women were not required to do salaat during menstruation and that if they did it it was not valid. Never was it that it was forbidden. That that it was not valid, was the traditional position of those who hold that kind of view which is most muslims, but to say that it is forbidden it is something else. A step the traditionalists, as far as I know, did not take. Now it is that it is forbidden. Where from? The same goes for fasting.
I do not think the invalidity of salaat and therefore the dispense of it during menstruation comes from islamic sources. In judaism and in the bible menstruating women were unclean and were very restricted, it really looked like an abomination. There are things wrtten about that and there is the bible. That is where it comes from in islam, just as the sacrifice of ibrahim, and so many things, that "islam" has incorporated and which are completely straneous to Qur'an. The menstruation thing was a magnificent weapon to ban women out right from religious "hyerarchy" and religious significance. What are they going to do if they cannot even make prayers? ?Realise?
To be in ritual impurity is called junub-junuban. Nowhere int he Qur'an does that word appear in connection with menstruation. Nowhwere in the Qur'an is menstruation mentioned or hinted at as an impediment for salaa or fast.
If somebody becomes ill because of the menses or in connection with them, what does it matter? It is dipensed of salaat because of sickness not because of menstruation. Why should it be relevant whether the sickness come sform thsi or from that. Why when it concerns women everybody turns out to be so eager to find problems with everything? I am not meaning you Mirjamnur, I mean in general?
We have in aya 4.1 in the same sentence that we are commanded
Ittaqw Allah... we ittaw al arham
Be conscious of God and be conscious of the wombs...
So we are instructed to be conscious of the wombs and then right away we loose no time in declaring them unclean. No wonder muslims are so lost. Womanhood, according to the Qur'an should be revered not constantly scrutinized and suspected and restricted. Mankind in general is very lost, but who is more lost than those who have got a complete and fair and noble guide an apply themselves to see how they can obscure it an cut it the same way one cuts prices. The Qur'an is too good, we should make it cheaper, what?
Again, Mirjamnur this is nothing directed at you, I just happen to have taken the cue from your message, but it is a general comment.
Salaam
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Peace to everyone,
The only restriction as far as the menses is concerned is sexual intercourse.
The others as huruf has correctly stated are innovations.
It is astounding to think that to God it matters if a woman is on her menses
or not. Just astounding.He said, "You have incurred condemnation and wrath from your Lord.
Do you argue with me in defense of innovations you have fabricated? you
and your parents?which were never authorized by GOD? Therefore, wait and I
will wait along with you."peace
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Salaam,
Edit You are right, this was maybe an unnecessary topic to discuss. Maybe sanitary discomfort is nothing which can affect one's prayability.
I can clearly see that the topic got pretty heated up. All I wanted to say was about the possible feeling of uncleanness and therefore willingness to abstain from prayer due to feeling spiritually unclean. I have no experience of menstruation since obviously I am no woman.
Anyway, the philosophical background was unclean feelings in general, if you cannot prevent an unclean condition due to medical issues for example. I know women have been mistreated over the centuries and I am no promoter of that, but still if some women believe that their menstruation is a distraction I respect that and I will not nag on them to pray because the Quran does not exempt menstruating women from praying.
Same goes for medical situations which may induce feelings of sanitary discomfort. It was this sort of philosophical thinking I was doing and I never said that women having their period must abstain from praying.
And I am still a bit puzzled where fasting and menstruation entered the picture, except that I am a bit unsure about the potential health issue due to the obvious loss of blood during this period. However, a healthy female should be fine I guess.
The focus of my thinking was still around 56 and the reason behind doing this minor ablution. And potential obstacles that may affect the result of an ablution.
If you want, we can leave this part of the discussion about ablution.
By the way, I do not like the term ritual, it sounds pagan-like.
God bless you
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Salam Huruf
Yes, i see that you are very alarmed- group
I do not think the invalidity of salaat and therefore the dispense of it during menstruation comes from islamic sources. In judaism and in the bible menstruating women were unclean and were very restricted, it really looked like an abomination. There are things wrtten about that and there is the bible. That is where it comes from in islam, just as the sacrifice of ibrahim, and so many things, that "islam" has incorporated and which are completely straneous to Qur'an. The menstruation thing was a magnificent weapon to ban women out right from religious "hyerarchy" and religious significance. What are they going to do if they cannot even make prayers? ?Realise?
To be in ritual impurity is called junub-junuban. Nowhere int he Qur'an does that word appear in connection with menstruation. Nowhwere in the Qur'an is menstruation mentioned or hinted at as an impediment for salaa or fast.
to much from the secondary sources seem to be inspired from the bible. When we read ibn kathir, then he has a big knowledge from the laws and stories in the bible... in fact i think ,that the Quran want correct this mistake and tell the people look at ME HERE IS NOTHING WRITTEN ABOUT UNCLEANESS!!!!!! In one Aya, Allah shows us the truth and the most of the people( men??) don't like to see it.. -X
Again, Mirjamnur this is nothing directed at you, I just happen to have taken the cue from your message, but it is a general comment.
al hamdulillah!
Salam
I can clearly see that the topic got pretty heated up. All I wanted to say was about the possible feeling of uncleanness and therefore willingness to abstain from prayer due to feeling spiritually unclean. I have no experience of menstruation since obviously I am no woman.
this i think is probably possible- i am not feeling unclean, but disturbed and many womens suffer from headache or other disease during this time- so it is just a facility for womens to not MUST go in the mosque those times... And Allah knows.
peace -
Peace and bump,
It can be quite interesting to ponder on the things we do, that we take as part of our faith or religion. In all truthfulness, very much is ritual, which in turn means that it is actually repetition... recycling of old material.
What is a ritual actually? If you think about it, at the foundation and source of any ritual, there is a thought-form that is repeated. Whether we do physical movements or verbal or mental recitations, they are repetitions of a thought-form that we execute in our mind over and over. It's a mental pattern, a thought-form, which involves executing words, thoughts, movements and similar. It's repetitive and mechanical in essence, even though we may spice it up with emotions or other things that make it seem more genuine and real.
Why do we do this? How can this benefit us? Why would we be required to mechanically repeat ANYTHING, even the God?s names? The thing I?m questioning is not WHAT we say and do, but WHY, WHEN and HOW we do it. If we don?t do it out of inspiration in the moment of Now, then isn?t it dead... mechanical, without spirit?? Again, this is not about what to do and say, or what to avoid, but it is rather the reasons for doing it. Did we follow our inner guidance or did we follow a mechanical habit?
Will we benefit from repeating old things, or will we benefit from expressing ourselves genuinely in the manner that arises in the moment, expressing that which comes out from inside, that which comes with spirit in the Now-moment??
I think these things can be valuable to ponder, in order to get to know oneself better and to evolve and get closer to one's real self and subsequently to get away from the disconnected and separatist, egoic mind that doesn?t want us to open our eyes and be awake so that we can walk the straight path.
This was just a thought-provoker... which I find important.
All the best!