Conflict between Oral and Written Tradition in both Judaism and Islam
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no no, that's fine, thanks for clarifying handshake
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Hi Everyone,
If you worship idols you know you do. Where the Quran says they lie even to themselves, I think it means that they think it is ok to worship those idols. Or that they were justified in worshiping those idols. The Hindus worship idols and they know they are worshiping idols. Same with Buddhists. They know they are focusing on an idol. If you worship a human being you know it. However a 12 year old girl who "idolizes" Justin Beiber (yuck gasp and puke yuck), isn't guilty of idol worship. She is not putting him up there with Allah. She is just infatuated.
The biggest conflict in the oral traditions in the two religions is who has the power. In both only scholars have the power (unless you are a reform Jew). I think we are so educated now and information is so easy to obtain via the internet, we can read the information as it is plentiful. Historically someone would have to go away to a school just to read the documents. Now I can be a lazy slob and sit on my couch and read all the Hadith I want. Then we can sit here and debate just like we are in school. If we put all our faith that the scholars "got it right" for all time, or only current scholars know the "right way" then we will be frustrated.
Study on!
Just my crazy thoughts,
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
Peace Bigmo,
The majority of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol
worship (mush'rikna).Many muslims idolize the prophet Muhammad, and some do, but do not realize it due to
being born and raised in that situation, same with christians (jesus) and jews (rabbis).Say, "I am no more than a human being like you, who has been inspired that your
god is one god. You shall be devoted to Him, and ask His forgiveness. Woe to the idol
worshipers (mush'rikna).Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary.
The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord
and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden
Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers."On the day (of judgment) when we gather all the people, we will ask the
idolworshipers, 'Where are your idols whom you set up beside God?' Then, their
only answer will be, 'By God our Lord, we were not idolworshipers.'
Note how they lied even to themselves, and note that the idols they had set up
will abandon them." (622-24)ONE GOD ONE WAY
I have a feeling you don't know what paganism is.
This is a good place to start
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRPqtGywkCw
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Hi Everyone,
Prophets in Torah/Tanach are not sinless. Look at King David.
I agree. But according to both the oral traditions of Islam and Judaism, he was not guilty of any major sin. Ali, during his caliphate, threatened to have any man flogged who repeated a tafsir of the passage I mentioned from the Qur'an that included David sinning.
Don't say "screw it" and give up. Work through your issues with your family and your wife. These relationships are very important to maintain.
Thanks, JewishDude. My family are all devout Christians who think all Muslims are terrorists, so there's not a lot I can do about that. My wife initially was not happy with things, but she's cool with it now.
Peace BigMo,
I think you are right, though I would tend to agree with JewishDude that Paul wasn't always on the up-and-up. The Jerusalem Council set some pretty clear guidelines to settle the Jew/non-Jew question (which are, I believe 100% in agreement with the Qur'an), but Paul went too far in his arguments against those who said that non-Jews needed circumcision by arguing for the abrogation of the Torah altogether. I read him like I would read a theologian, but I don't consider his letters to be scripture.
Salaam.
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I agree. But according to both the oral traditions of Islam and Judaism, he was not guilty of any major sin. Ali, during his caliphate, threatened to have any man flogged who repeated a tafsir of the passage I mentioned from the Qur'an that included David sinning.
Thanks, JewishDude. My family are all devout Christians who think all Muslims are terrorists, so there's not a lot I can do about that. My wife initially was not happy with things, but she's cool with it now.
Peace BigMo,
I think you are right, though I would tend to agree with JewishDude that Paul wasn't always on the up-and-up. The Jerusalem Council set some pretty clear guidelines to settle the Jew/non-Jew question (which are, I believe 100% in agreement with the Qur'an), but Paul went too far in his arguments against those who said that non-Jews needed circumcision by arguing for the abrogation of the Torah altogether. I read him like I would read a theologian, but I don't consider his letters to be scripture.
Salaam.
Thats not my point though about Paul. many Quranist do not agree with circumcision so why shouldn't Paul. What the Quran attacked about Christianity is the Trinity. In fact Paul seemd to have understood the OT and what its trying to get to. Ritauls are a means to an end and not an end by themselves. Even Jesus downplayed the Sabbath since he saw it as a function of humans and not God.
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Hi Everyone,
There is a lot of oral tradition in Judaism. However, looking at Judaism and Islam together I think they are essentially the same religion. One is more refined than the other. Islam is soooo close to Judaism I wonder why the two groups haven't merged. Just my crazy thoughts,
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peacePeace JewishDude,
God consistently decrees the same correct shahadah in all scriptures for all of us.
You shall have no other god besides Me." (Exodus 203)
Islam is the "continued" revelation from God. Muhammad was the last of the prophets
and he received the last revelation. Islam is not a new religion but the old religion .He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired
to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this
one religion, and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will
greatly resent what you invite them to do. GOD redeems to Himself whomever He wills;
He guides to Himself only those who totally submit.Absolutely, this is the narration of the truth. Absolutely, there is no god
except GOD. Absolutely, GOD is the Almighty, Most Wise. If they turn away, then GOD
is fully aware of the evildoers. Say, "O followers of the scripture, let us come to a logical
agreement between us and you that we shall not worship except GOD; that we never
set up any idols besides Him, nor set up any human beings as lords beside GOD." If they
turn away, say, "Bear witness that we are submitters."Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was
sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given
to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among
any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."Can't we all just get along?
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Salaam hawkninetynine,
You always rescue me with your quotes from the Quran when I write things rotfl
God bless
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Salam Man of Faith,
That is because your quotes remind me of scripture.
Thanks hawkninetynine,
That is also because my knowledge is from the Message, God's Message, but my memory with numbers or where I got things from is often having me saved by God, in this case through you my fellow brother hawkninetynine. We should stay united group
My knowledge is so diverse it is impossible without God's help to keep in one piece, without the intention to brag. All those with knowledge among us are supported by God.
God bless you with prosperity, both now and in the future.