Why abandon rituals?
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Wow...BRAINWASHED. At least you put the 'no offense'. You couldn't say 'keen on Aidid's ideas' but rather you had to say 'brainwashed'. Put the handshake smiley too to make it extra palatable P
Peace.
Well, they seemed pretty brainwashed to me cause I've seen their arguments. Despite the clear proofs, they were hard-headed and were blind to it. And no, they are not just "keen", but greatly influenced of such beliefs. I don't know what others think of Mr. Aidid, but i'm particularly addressing some users I've seen in the very old topics.
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and of course you must be 100% correct, right?
I really love how you say 'clear proofs'. You made a BIG ASSUMPTION above about how certain things are protected besides the Quran
I also believe in all these, but my difference in belief from you arises when I think that God has not only protected the Arabic revelations, but has also protected it's MEANINGS and He won't just let all the meanings of certain terms WHICH ARE ESSENTIAL FOR OUR SALVATION AND FOR ACHIEVING PARADISE to simply disappear from the face of this earth, cause then I think that it will be really unfair and unjust. And God CANNOT be unfair or unjust, not even in the least degree which amounts to a speck of dust.
There is zero evidence for this )
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Peace!
It is an interesting thred indeed. I've read Safar's book and it makes sense to me in many aspects. As many other brothers and sisters who don't know any arabic, I'm one of those who relies on translations and older Quranists' opinions and perspectives. Far from being "brainwashed", I necessarily need to pay attention, do I? Are we talking about DIY or a spiritual journey which strongly affects our lives (Here and There)
Well, what I understand (or misunderstand, depending on your politics) is
1)some people say arabic is not needed to understand the Quran but still bring forward quotes in arabic and when they try to translate there are different opinions anyway;
2)Some say that we don't need anybody else to understand the Quran but ourselves, other say you need to talk and share your point of view...Is it about to "join a club" (hey, I believe salat is ritual prayer! All right come with us then! Oh! wait a minute... do you guys also believe in hajj as pilgrimage? because I have doubts on that...) or what? Almost in every thred there are 3-4 ways of seeing things... let me tell you is a bit confusing.
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I personally find Aidid's conclusions unacceptable but the people I've met who read him are usually highly thoughtful individuals who ask some incisive question. To call them 'brainwashed' is simply false and used to create a particular reaction. It's a crying shame people can't be more discerning. Usually it's the people who demand evidence who are devoid of evidence themselves yet see their circular logic as 'evidence'. It's pathetic.
1)some people say arabic is not needed to understand the Quran but still bring forward quotes in arabic and when they try to translate there are different opinions anyway;
2)Some say that we don't need anybody else to understand the Quran but ourselves, other say you need to talk and share your point of view...A book in any language requires us to know the language to understand it. However, does it mean those who purport to use dictionaries and grammar books have the meaning? I highly doubt it. GREAT CENSORSHIP goes on in dictionary production.
I was just checking the word for 'half' (niSf) and it turns out there are MANY OTHER meanings. Yet in commonly used resources, only 'half' is mentioned. This is a deliberate attempt to control meanings. Just because some folks can't see other possibilities of meanings, they are left out of the entry. So no, I don't believe we should accept AUTHORITY of Arabic from those who claim it but still, knowing Arabic is a good thing. Just retain your right to interpret. Never swallow what is said just on basis of so-called 'evidence'.
Having said that, people who read even Saudi translations can see the truth of the Quran. So it's not just language but internal resonance.
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and of course you must be 100% correct, right?
I really love how you say 'clear proofs'. You made a BIG ASSUMPTION above about how certain things are protected besides the Quran
There is zero evidence for this )
Agreed. I can't bring any evidence for what I said. But like I said before, I trust in God that He didn't just let all the meanings disappear from this earth which are essential for us to know. I trust in God that He didn't keep secret all those meanings from everyone except for a few people in this whole entire world.
And look at free-minds, I actually agreed when you said that Quranists are in a worse position than the Sunnis. Let's face it. You have proofs, and I have proofs. But which is the correct proof? We are so terribly varried from each other, that the person with the wrong proofs can end up in hell cause of his deeds? Do you believe this?
Honestly bro, instead of arguing, I think that Quraints should minimize their variances and come more in common terms with each other. Sadly, this isn't the case here.
Peace.
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Scribbler, I appreciate your honesty, really I do. I just ask you to please use nicer language. Even if you do believe his followers are brainwashed, would it do much good to say it to their face? Isn't it better to pose the question 'are you sure you have been critical of his views'. At the very least, the guy may listen to you )
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Salaam
Honestly bro, instead of arguing, I think that Quraints should minimize their variances and come more in common terms with each other.
Why ?
Are you asking for a kind of clergy at free-minds.org.
How can we understand what our teacher said if we don't discuss and argue freely about it ?
Here, violence is only intellectual.Peace
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I sincerely apologize to everyone on this forum and to all the people who believe in Aidid Safar's work. I take my words back, cause they are NOT brainwashed, but simply seekers of the truth. And speaking of "brainwashed", I myself can be brainwashed and may not realize it.
In the end, judgement is with God, so I leave it to God to decide everything for us.
Peace.
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Salaam everyone,
I clearly see the world needs another definite messenger. One to clarify the misconceptions and further purify the religion.
Anyway, until then, follow these basic principles first of all
Believe in God alone
Believe in the Hereafter
And be righteous, you know what it is, the Quran explains it perfectly.
May God bless us all
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Salaam everyone,
I clearly see the world needs another definite messenger. One to clarify the misconceptions and further purify the religion.
Anyway, until then, follow these basic principles first of all
Believe in God alone
Believe in the Hereafter
And be righteous, you know what it is, the Quran explains it perfectly.
May God bless us all
They create problems for themselves. How can u say we need another messenger when there are all these scriptures in front of us. What you are searching is not there.
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They create problems for themselves. How can u say we need another messenger when there are all these scriptures in front of us. What you are searching is not there.
Salaam Bigmo,
Please refrain from being so arrogant, for the peace and prosperity.
Anyway, I agree with you, the scriptures are and should be enough for people. But if they are complemented by some messenger it will only make things more clear. It is the diversion and the difference in belief that makes me think about the benefits of another messenger. Even I pray for a preacher to arise again to refresh the original true Message.
Especially one that can warn about the continuation of the worship of Jesus and Muhammad, and other individuals, but that can also refresh the preaching work done some time ago.
I do not think it is never too late to send a preacher who is backed up divinely. But it would be from the mercy of the Lord if there came someone anew to preach the Message. Nothing is impossible to God, like my motto goes "Everything is possible, nothing is impossible", it is always possible that a new messenger could come around. Surely not everyone will believe, but they never did right?
Also a lot of things are hidden and dug deep down under the surface when it comes to the Truth, we can not know without the Grace of God about some things. The distortion and lies has made it difficult to see the difference between right and wrong at times, but mostly annoying to study the Truth. Of course we have the Quran, but this book is 1400 years old, nothing wrong with it, but we sometimes difficulties interpreting the language.
The Quran is still sufficient, even with the interpretation issues, but I still have seen several issues which people are not content with the current state of answer. There are several verses in the Quran that I am not content with the translation/interpretation and it could be enough widespread an issue to give a reason for another preacher of the Message. A preacher, no matter the language spoken, will know the right interpretation of the Message.
Considering the only conditions to be forgiven and admitted into paradise are these I will write below, we do not barely have to understand the whole Quran as it was understood those years ago, as long as we follow this
- Believe in God
- Believe in the Eternal life
- Being righteous
You know what is being righteous without reading the Quran, even without the Bible, it is in our souls. Even criminals often know what is wrong when doing it.
But the annoyance I encounter when I try to interpret the Quran and religious questions make me wish another Messenger arose and that is why I wrote my previous post. It was not that I cannot live without it, but I only pray for it.
God bless you and excuse me for being offended at first, but I calmed down, thanks God.
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But the annoyance I encounter when I try to interpret the Quran and religious questions make me wish another Messenger arose and that is why I wrote my previous post. It was not that I cannot live without it, but I only pray for it.
Salamun alaikum,
Chapter of Messengers is closed.
Mohammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam pronounced "And this Qur'aan has been communicated to me so that I admonish/awaken you the living people with it; and to admonish/ awaken the one whom this Qur'aan reached". ;
Root
The Authenticating Accomplisher of those who are declared Chosen, Dignified and Exalted Sincere Allegiants of Allah the Exalted.
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Salamun alaikum,
Chapter of Messengers is closed.
Mohammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam pronounced "And this Qur'aan has been communicated to me so that I admonish/awaken you the living people with it; and to admonish/ awaken the one whom this Qur'aan reached". ;
Root
The Authenticating Accomplisher of those who are declared Chosen, Dignified and Exalted Sincere Allegiants of Allah the Exalted.
Salaam,
Time will tell, but until then keep your eyes open.
God bless you
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Salaam Bigmo,
Please refrain from being so arrogant, for the peace and prosperity.
Anyway, I agree with you, the scriptures are and should be enough for people. But if they are complemented by some messenger it will only make things more clear. It is the diversion and the difference in belief that makes me think about the benefits of another messenger. Even I pray for a preacher to arise again to refresh the original true Message.
Especially one that can warn about the continuation of the worship of Jesus and Muhammad, and other individuals, but that can also refresh the preaching work done some time ago.
I do not think it is never too late to send a preacher who is backed up divinely. But it would be from the mercy of the Lord if there came someone anew to preach the Message. Nothing is impossible to God, like my motto goes "Everything is possible, nothing is impossible", it is always possible that a new messenger could come around. Surely not everyone will believe, but they never did right?
Also a lot of things are hidden and dug deep down under the surface when it comes to the Truth, we can not know without the Grace of God about some things. The distortion and lies has made it difficult to see the difference between right and wrong at times, but mostly annoying to study the Truth. Of course we have the Quran, but this book is 1400 years old, nothing wrong with it, but we sometimes difficulties interpreting the language.
The Quran is still sufficient, even with the interpretation issues, but I still have seen several issues which people are not content with the current state of answer. There are several verses in the Quran that I am not content with the translation/interpretation and it could be enough widespread an issue to give a reason for another preacher of the Message. A preacher, no matter the language spoken, will know the right interpretation of the Message.
Considering the only conditions to be forgiven and admitted into paradise are these I will write below, we do not barely have to understand the whole Quran as it was understood those years ago, as long as we follow this
- Believe in God
- Believe in the Eternal life
- Being righteous
You know what is being righteous without reading the Quran, even without the Bible, it is in our souls. Even criminals often know what is wrong when doing it.
But the annoyance I encounter when I try to interpret the Quran and religious questions make me wish another Messenger arose and that is why I wrote my previous post. It was not that I cannot live without it, but I only pray for it.
God bless you and excuse me for being offended at first, but I calmed down, thanks God.
This is not about arrogance. The term salat appears more than 50 times in the Quran and appears with every prophet mentioned there and the Quran speaks of it as a major criteria for our salvation. If you are not going to understand what that term means you have basically missed the whole Quran. There is no way around that.
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This is not about arrogance. The term salat appears more than 50 times in the Quran and appears with every prophet mentioned there and the Quran speaks of it as a major criteria for our salvation. If you are not going to understand what that term means you have basically missed the whole Quran. There is no way around that.
Salamun alaika,
A little correction.
The fact of the matter is that the Time Bound Formal demonstration of Servitude and allegiance for the Creator Lord was prescribed and its practice is in vogue ever since the Father of Muslims in timeline the Chosen Friend and the Messenger of Allah the Exalted, revered Iebra'heim had raised along with his son Iesma'eile the House of Allah the Exalted in the ever protected city Mecca, for the first time in human history.
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Salaam Bigmo,
Now I cannot understand again what you are trying to get at?
Have I excluded prayers from my reasoning?
I pray at least five times per day or often more, and I spend some nights in meditation as a sort of praying ritual. Were they three or two, or 50 prayers per day, as long as it was devoted to God alone, it would not matter. Praying is a recommendation just like everything else in the holy scriptures, even if they can be on different level of importance, but it all adds up in the end. Just like committing sins they weigh differently.
Even other actions can be considered a prayer, for example if you go outside and throw yourself in the snow outside the house in desperation that a child was dieing and just keep yourself in the snow for days, as a story I read about David (I think) in the Old Testament. Hurt yourself as a self-inflicted punishment seems to be a form of prayer condition. Now this extreme case is nothing I promote or recommend, but it was just an example of different forms of worship.
Even freely speaking to the Lord while alone in your room can be a sort of prayer or singing praises for Him. Prayers are attempts of "communication" with the Lord, seeking His nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers.
Refraining from prayers will have a huge impact on your religious path I am sure however, I have not tried and I would not try either in fear of the Lord, but He always gave you the choice to choose yourself. One may abandon prayers while losing faith and return later after years of sinning to start praying again and God will forgive, depends entirely on the case and the good Lord's willing. Repeatedly losing faith seems to be leading one never to return to the right path again however.
You need to read some other posts of mine for a better understanding, and maybe more carefully, or not at all, choose yourself, I let the Lord choose for me.
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Salaam Bigmo,
Now I cannot understand again what you are trying to get at?
Have I excluded prayers from my reasoning?
I pray at least five times per day or often more, and I spend some nights in meditation as a sort of praying ritual. Were they three or two, or 50 prayers per day, as long as it was devoted to God alone, it would not matter. Praying is a recommendation just like everything else in the holy scriptures, even if they can be on different level of importance, but it all adds up in the end. Just like committing sins they weigh differently.
Even other actions can be considered a prayer, for example if you go outside and throw yourself in the snow outside the house in desperation that a child was dieing and just keep yourself in the snow for days, as a story I read about David (I think) in the Old Testament. Hurt yourself as a self-inflicted punishment seems to be a form of prayer condition. Now this extreme case is nothing I promote or recommend, but it was just an example of different forms of worship.
Even freely speaking to the Lord while alone in your room can be a sort of prayer or singing praises for Him. Prayers are attempts of "communication" with the Lord, seeking His nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers.
Refraining from prayers will have a huge impact on your religious path I am sure however, I have not tried and I would not try either in fear of the Lord, but He always gave you the choice to choose yourself. One may abandon prayers while losing faith and return later after years of sinning to start praying again and God will forgive, depends entirely on the case and the good Lord's willing. Repeatedly losing faith seems to be leading one never to return to the right path again however.
You need to read some other posts of mine for a better understanding, and maybe more carefully, or not at all, choose yourself, I let the Lord choose for me.
I never said you personally. I said the methodology that some use to interpret the Quran has made understanding many of its message impossible and often they go in circles.
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Salaam Bigmo,
Then I apologize, I truly thought you were speaking to me personally hmm
I fear the Lord that I speak of something that is not righteous on this forum and you can rest assured that I would repent to the Lord if I found out I was giving inaccurate information. It does not say I am not wrong at times, I like to be proven wrong in the Light of God, that I may be able to change myself.
The scriptures, including the Quran, clearly points out that some sort of ritual worship is included in the religion of God, you can understand that quite easily. Unless people are not entirely useless that translated the Quran into English up until now, it is impossible to exclude prayers from the schedule. I am not that arrogant to doubt these people. It does not matter if they were biased in ways, the Message cannot be misunderstood that gravely, God would not allow it for sure.
God did not want to make His religion difficult for us, rather quite the opposite. We must remember his key features, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful. His religion is difficult for those who do not believe, even if it should not be, so it does not matter how much proof you shovel in their faces.
Prayers can be a form of ritual and it strengthens your relation with the Lord.
God bless you and hope there is peace, and contentment, between us, that I did not anger you.
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God did not want to make His religion difficult for us, rather quite the opposite. We must remember his key features, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful. His religion is difficult for those who do not believe, even if it should not be, so it does not matter how much proof you shovel in their faces.
But without forgetting
O you the Man, listen;
Indeed, you have to become an endeavourer to near towards your Sustainer Lord, persistently exerting. Thereby, you will enable yourself to face the accountability of Him the Exalted. -
MY RITUAL SALAAT IS RIGHT
AND...YOURS IS WRONG.....!!!There is, in fact, differences regarding the real method of ritual salaat among different schools of thoughts who follow Sahah Sittah....even Quran Aloners differ with each other...... In my understanding, all methods are correct only if you are in contact with your Creator.....No one has the sole authority to condemn or reject other methods of ritual Salaat...so your Sincere, Honest and Pure contact with your Creator counts, and not what method of ritual Salaat one follows.... And the Sincerety and Purity of this contact with The Creator must be shown in all affairs, matters and issues of life..........that is following The Creator's Instructions (which is Al Quran Alone, and not at all man made Sahah Sittah). La Ilaha Illa Allah....there is no autority except Allah..... So... La Ilaha Illa Allah... is a matter of accepting Allah as The Authority, La Ilaha Illa Allah...is not a matter of following the right methods of rituals.....NO...! There are many who, in their thoughts, follow the most authentic methods of rituals, but, they commit Shirk by taking others as authority, and not Allah....(931)