Proof that Qibla is the Kaabah in Mecca
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Let me give you some pieces of Quranic info which confirm that the Kaaba is in fact in Mecca and that the Kaaba is the masjid al-haram, and that Muhammad lived in Mecca
1- First we acknowledge that the first house which was built for God was in Baca and was built by Abraham. I accept that Baka is NOT Mecca, God does not do spelling mistakes. What this means is that the house built by Abraham was not the Kaaba, there is no problem with that. But .. and this is a BIG BUT ... this does not mean in any way that Muhammad did not live in Mecca ... there are no Quranic words which connect Muhammad with Baca, Baca is only related to Abraham. In fact, the Quran connects Muhammad with Mecca and the masjid al-haram ....
2- There is no problem either to say that the old Qibla was to Jerusalem, but this was changed with the revelation of the Quran to being the masjid al-haram (2144), and the Quran confirms to us that the masjid al-haram is the Kabaa and that the Kaaba is in Mecca.
Here are the relevant Quranic verses
1- In 4818 God speaks to Muhammad about the believers who swore allegiance to him under the tree ? the narration continues and in verse 24 God speaks about how He withheld the hands of he disbelievers in the valley of Mecca ? God is STILL speaking to Muhammad, this confirms that Muhammad was located in Mecca.
2- The narration continues in the very next verse and God mentions the masjid al-haram, so unless Muhammad was suddenly transported by rocket to land instantly somewhere at or near Jerusalem (which has no basis anywhere in the Quran), then it is obvious that the masjid al-haram is also in Mecca.
3- In 597 we are told very clearly that the Kaaba is the masjid al-haram
God has decreed the Kaaba as the Masjid Al-Haram, to be maintained for the people, and for the Haram Months, and the offerings and the garlands. That is so that you may know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and that God is Knowledgeable of all things.
4- 595 and 597 also tells us that the rituals of hajj are observed at the Kaaba (which is the Masjid Al-Haram).
All the above confirms that
1- Muhammad lived in Mecca
2- The Masjid Al-Haram is in Mecca
3- The Kaaba is the masjid Al-Haram
4- That Hajj should be observed at the Kaaba/masjid al-haram.
The fact that the first house that Abraham built was not in Mecca and was not the Kaaba, but was in a place called Baka, all that is fine, but none of that changes the 4 points above.
It is very likely that the initial Qibla was indeed somewhere around Jerusalem, and that Abraham never built the Kaaba in Mecca, but it is also true that God changed the Qibla to be the Kaaba in Mecca with the revelation of the Quran (2144), and that our hajj is now to be observed at the Kaaba in Mecca.
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I wonder why God doesn't just say ''idhahbu lil hajj fi makkah'? Would have been simpler and uncontroversial )
handshake
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Babansif, surely you're not insinuating those who don't believe in Makkah as the place of hajj are not 'true believers' ? That wouldn't be nice, bro )
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Wow, so they're disagreeing with THE QURAN now as opposed to YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Quran. You'll fit in very well with some people here, for sure.
I think it's just your interpretation. You neglected to look at these problems
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48/24 , it's 'bi bathni makkah' (or WITH belly of 'makkah' rather than fee/in
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Even Muhammad was in makkah, he couldn't move elsewhere? Hajj is nowhere mentioned in that context. If Makkah is the place of masjid al-haram, how come he was in BELLY of makkah in 48/24 and ENTERING masjid-haram in 48/27.
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Makkah isn't mentioned in 2/142-152, neither is Jerusalem as a matter of fact.
Lets not be so sure of ourselves, bro. I respect your interpretation but please don't call me a disbeliever for disagreeing with you )
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God talks about fighting disbelievers in Mekka who did not let them enter masjid al haram in mekka, and that they would have taken the town with force if it would have not been for the believers wich live there.
That means that the masjid al haram must be in mekka -
Sorry, there's no masjid al-haram IN Makkah there. Even if 48/24 means 'in' (which it says 'with', then that's a different situation than 48/27. He ENTERS masjid al-haram there after the fulfilment of a vision in truth. One in a 'belly' of something doesn't need to enter it again. Sorry bro, it's very hard to push Makkah in there for me (
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I don't see 'not letting them into masjid al-haram' at all. Can you please point out the phrase?
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4525
They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the SACRED MOSQUE, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have committed a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whomever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those of them who rejected with a painful retribution. -
and what word did you translate as 'from' please?
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Sorry brother, what you did was to present me a TRANSLATION. That translation does not fit the text very well. There is no word 'from' (min in Arabic) there at all.
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hehe, ok. I'd rather be 'ignorant' than to be imprecise with words. Sorry but still, i wont call you a 'disbeliever' or whatever handshake
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By the way, who is more important, Abraham or Muhammad?
If the true monotheist was Abraham, and all of the Qur'an is confirming him as a real and true submitter and friend of God, then it is much more important what and where he'd built, than anyone else, and some tradition even tried to somehow tie Abraham with Mecca, which you now just showed is not correct...
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Let me give you some pieces of Quranic info which confirm that the Kaaba is in fact in Mecca and that the Kaaba is the masjid al-haram, and that Muhammad lived in Mecca
1- First we acknowledge that the first house which was built for God was in Baca and was built by Abraham. I accept that Baka is NOT Mecca, God does not do spelling mistakes. What this means is that the house built by Abraham was not the Kaaba, there is no problem with that. But .. and this is a BIG BUT ... this does not mean in any way that Muhammad did not live in Mecca ... there are no Quranic words which connect Muhammad with Baca, Baca is only related to Abraham. In fact, the Quran connects Muhammad with Mecca and the masjid al-haram ....
2- There is no problem either to say that the old Qibla was to Jerusalem, but this was changed with the revelation of the Quran to being the masjid al-haram (2144), and the Quran confirms to us that the masjid al-haram is the Kabaa and that the Kaaba is in Mecca.
Here are the relevant Quranic verses
1- In 4818 God speaks to Muhammad about the believers who swore allegiance to him under the tree ? the narration continues and in verse 24 God speaks about how He withheld the hands of he disbelievers in the valley of Mecca ? God is STILL speaking to Muhammad, this confirms that Muhammad was located in Mecca.
2- The narration continues in the very next verse and God mentions the masjid al-haram, so unless Muhammad was suddenly transported by rocket to land instantly somewhere at or near Jerusalem (which has no basis anywhere in the Quran), then it is obvious that the masjid al-haram is also in Mecca.
3- In 597 we are told very clearly that the Kaaba is the masjid al-haram
God has decreed the Kaaba as the Masjid Al-Haram, to be maintained for the people, and for the Haram Months, and the offerings and the garlands. That is so that you may know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and that God is Knowledgeable of all things.
4- 595 and 597 also tells us that the rituals of hajj are observed at the Kaaba (which is the Masjid Al-Haram).
All the above confirms that
1- Muhammad lived in Mecca
2- The Masjid Al-Haram is in Mecca
3- The Kaaba is the masjid Al-Haram
4- That Hajj should be observed at the Kaaba/masjid al-haram.
The fact that the first house that Abraham built was not in Mecca and was not the Kaaba, but was in a place called Baka, all that is fine, but none of that changes the 4 points above.
It is very likely that the initial Qibla was indeed somewhere around Jerusalem, and that Abraham never built the Kaaba in Mecca, but it is also true that God changed the Qibla to be the Kaaba in Mecca with the revelation of the Quran (2144), and that our hajj is now to be observed at the Kaaba in Mecca.
Salaam Babansif
let suppose that proove is convincing (wich is not for me).
You should proove first that a city called Mecca existed at the time where Muhammad lived.We know for example that Yathrib was renamed to Medina
We know also that Egypt was renamed to MisrWhat if the actual Mecca was renamed to fit the word Mecca in 48-24 ?
Now, to complete your proof, just find something in history of hamanity talking about a city called Mecca in the Hijaz land.
We can find such a proofs for many historical cities in history that were not even sacred for God.Peace
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I like to interpret with the principle of WAP (Widest Application Possible). To me 48/24 isn't about historical Muhammad but about us as we go on to establish masjid al-haram. 'makkah' here could be a state of dependence upon the current system.
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Well guys if we talk about names in the Quran that can has been changed since the revelation came to Muhammad and if we argue like that. Well in that point then we can say that about everything and nothing can be authentic, not even the Quran itself. God clearly states that Muhammed is in the valley of Mekka and that he fought disbelievers in the valley of Mekkah who did not let them in to the Masjrid al haram. More proof I cant give you, stop being so arrogant and say things like well in that time mekkah could be this and that. If you gonna come with opinions like that then bring it with proofs and not personal opinions or thinkings. As lons as you cant proov that Mekka was not the name of the city in that time then you have to go that God talks about the masjrid al haram wich is in Mekkah.
AND it can also be a coincidence if you are ignorant that God says in 595-97 that Kaabah is the Qibla and the Secred Mosque, GOD EVEN MENTIONS IT BY NAME, HOW MORE PROOFS DO YOU WANT ?
IF DOME OF THE ROCK WAS OUR QIBLA THEN GOD WOULD NOT HAVE MENTIONED THE KABAAH AS SECRED MOSQUE IN THOSE VERSES INSTEAD OF DOME OF THE ROCK.I hope it is no hard feelings among us brothers , we all have differend opinions and try to correct each other and if you dont think that the kabaah is the Secred Mosque I respect that.
Salaam brothers )