Allatheena hadoo waalnnasara?

Idris

peace be upon all,

what are your thoughts on hadoo (guided) and nasara (helpers), commonly translated as Jews and Christians, in the context of the reading (quran)? obviously from the context we can tell these groups of people are not guided nor are they helpers, my theories are.....

Hadoo, comes from the root word o-d-y which means guide, offer, gift, so my theory is that the better translation then Jew or guided would be offered and it fits pretty well in the context considering God has clearly offered guidance to these people many times
Hadoo again, another theory is that the God gave a sarcastic description of these people which is "guided" considering they believe they are the only ones who are guided
Nasara, my theory is that they are merely helpers of the believers/faithful ones but do not believe
Nasara, another theory is that they are the helpers of the guided/offered and not the helpers in general

burhan doesn't classify hadoo under the root o-d-y so I'm actually not certain about my translation of hadoo but I am of nasara, if anybody can be of any help I could use it

peace

Wakas

peace Idris,

From the Concordance by H.E Kassis

ha(o)-waw-dal (see 7156 for an interesting example)

repent, be or become a Jew, Jewry.

AND

ya-ha(o)-dal (interestingly, it implies this is the proper noun)

Jew.

From the QD

ha(o)-alif-dal / ha(o)-waw-dal / ya-ha(o)-waw-dal

To become a Jew, be guided, return to one's duty gently. Tahweed to creep, crawl; Repentance.

Lane ha(o)-waw-dal

Wakas

unknownuser

Salaams idris,

someone pinted this out

"if someone wants to understand al-nasary as "the helpers" then he/she must explain 930

the helpers said The Messiah is God's son???

doesn't sound logical, does it? We know already that the christians say it, but to generalize and say that those who help others say it, seems streched

God bless.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

What does the word "AAuzayrun" mean in 930 ?

mquran

Salaamun alaikum guys,

Its often made me wonder how, if we choose to reject hadith and sunna as a source of information, we still accept these concepts of Jews, Christians and Muslims as 'three great Ibrahmic religions'. Al-Quraan mentions no such thing.

The word 'nasaraa' is a functional term. Al-hawariyoon, the followers of Isaa responded to the 'who will be HELPERS (ansari) towards Allah' and they said 'nahnu ansar Allah' (We are helpers of Allah).

Mz mentioned 9/30 which says

The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Here are some things to note

the word used is 'almasih'. 'Isaa' isn't there at all
The word used for 'son' is 'abnaa' not 'walad'. 'Walad' specifically is used when Allah curses those who say He took a 'son'.
5/18 tells us that an-nasara say 'we are the SONS of Allah' (abnaa not walada again).

In my opinion, there are lots of people in history and the world who can be identified as 'al-masih' and there are lots of people who 'help' these people. Marx for example, analysed the world and how the world can be a better place (i.e. he looked for al-kitaab). To this day, there are people helping in this direction and consider Marx to be god-like. While they don't preach about Allah (they are athiests), they do help in realising some Quranic values, such as justice and equality.

thanks and salaam

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Excellent post. It is getting clearer.

mquran

Cheers Kyle. Glad to return the favour once in a while D

zenje

Salaam mquran and all,

I asked this on another thread, but didn't get a 'satisfactory' answer. Whatever definition that would be used for yahooda or nasara (other than jew/christian)... Could you give an example how it would fit in this verse?

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist who surrendered; he was not of those who set up partners.
Ma kana ibraheemu yahoodiyyan wala nasraniyyan walakin kana haneefan musliman wama kana mina almushrikeena

Thanks )

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

right now, my thoughts are that "hadoo" is one who has locked thier heart to any further wisdom, they think they are "guided". The "nasara" are "helpers" to possibly "hadoo" or just fasle idols. They have the possibility of change because they are still open to information.

Is there a verse that I would be contradicting with that?

Someone

Peace upon you,

Idolfree said
right now, my thoughts are that "hadoo" is one who has locked thier heart to any further wisdom, they think they are "guided". The "nasara" are "helpers" to possibly "hadoo" or just fasle idols. They have the possibility of change because they are still open to information.

This sounds good. )

But we have to check across the scripture if the meaning fits well globally.

mquran

Salaamun alaikum Zenje,

To me, the difference between 'alladhina haadu' and 'nasara' with those who believe and and fully-inclined muslims like Ibrahim is the element of DIRECTNESS.

9/30 tells us that haadu and nasara need uzair (comes from root wzr which denotes ministership) and al-masih (comes from msh which denotes who is 'touched') as entities close with Allah Himself (abnaa Allah).

2/111 tells us that they say 'none may enter paradise unless he's a hadu or nasara'. Once again, its all about BEING (the word KANA) is there, rather than actual participation in the process.

So Zenje, imho, its all about the directness of the experience and the becoming, not being of a certain label.

hope that helps.