Hi
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Salaam
Jesus seems to be a very interesting person.
did he wrote a book i can read ?
PeaceLOL - I raise my hat to you!
Dear JesusIsTheWayTruthLife I am a Christian, but came to this forum to share and learn. Try learning from people first
Act 1034 Then Peter opened mouth and said "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
Act 1035 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.Who is to say that they are not already 'saved'?
Richard
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Who is to say that they are not already 'saved'?
"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.? Acts 1043
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"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.? Acts 1043
3.81. Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an apostle, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said "We agree." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
This verse in the Quran came regarding Jews. It sounds the same as the verse you quoted. The problem is you are attaching a divinity to Jesus. Everything else you say is not the problem.
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This verse in the Quran came regarding Jews. It sounds the same as the verse you quoted. The problem is you are attaching a divinity to Jesus. Everything else you say is not the problem.
I'm not saying he is God, BUT he is the son of God. The only and one, mediator between God and people. Soon you will see two witnesses, that will be your last chance. Be prepared my friend. God bless
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I'm not saying he is God, BUT he is the son of God. The only and one, mediator between God and people. Soon you will see two witnesses, that will be your last chance. Be prepared my friend. God bless
I have no problem with you saying he is a mediator but the part when you say he is the only mediator. Was not Moses a mediator? Or else why did God send Moses or Noah for? You need to clarify a little more.
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Salaam,
I was calling myself Christian before this, but I was non-trinitarian, thus a monotheist. I liked the good things about Jesus, but I never accepted the idea of him being God or even a mediator between me and God.
God blessed me with doubt about it from the start and I was thus not susceptible to the whispers of Satan, praise to God.
For your own good, please leave this Jesus God stuff, if you apply divinity, then the New Testament would contradict itself.
Read books about the myth of Jesus, they will convince you if you think rationally. I completely discarded any, if there even was any, doubt whether I was right or wrong about Jesus. Jesus is not God, and he spoke only the words God told him to. He did not die as an act to return to the Father and to become a divine savior.
For example, Jesus did not let his followers call him lord and many other things which prove that the trinity is just nonsense.
Apart from obvious distortions, the Gospel is interesting to read though, I am sure there is still much Truth in it.
I have thought about and adopted much of the righteous behavior of Jesus in my daily life, nothing wrong with it, but then I did the same with all messengers too though. Perhaps that is the way you will reach Heaven through him?
Either way, welcome to the forum and hope you will discover the Truth with us.
God bless you
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I'm not saying he is God, BUT he is the son of God. The only and one, mediator between God and people. Soon you will see two witnesses, that will be your last chance. Be prepared my friend. God bless
so you're telling us that Jesus isn't a God himself?
from what Christian church are you come from? -
Salaam,
Some Christians do not choose to believe Jesus was God's son, people such as myself, while I was still calling myself Christian.
God bless you
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Hello everyone
My story began few years ago. I had no relationship with God. But i was in the church sunday after sunday. You see people going to the church, and no change in their lifes. Then i've discovered the TRUTH. I discovered what is vatican, secret agendas, idolatry, and many more. My faith has increased, but still i had no relationship with God. I knew that HE IS, but still i was a slave to the sin. I read and read about what is world today, what is "matrix", and then i meet Jesus. I beg for mercy and forgiveness, but still i was a slave to the sin, and nothing changed in my life. Many times i was crying out to Lord Lord saves me, forgive me. Then after many months, something has changed, and i began to struggling with myself. My eyes has opened. I've been fighting with myself but most of the battles were lost. And one night i prayed to the Lord to change me on this what he wanted me to be. And on the next day i said to the sin enough, and i was changed man. I've been born again, and now i see thing different, for the first time, it's a strange feeling but then it becomes beautiful. You're not in bondage of the sin, you just have no desires for sin anymore. Today i know Jesus Christ is the Lord. He is the ONLY way to the FATHER. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 146 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 832 There is no other way. Not by popes, not by churches, not by man, not by ANYONE ELSE. Unless a man repent of his sins, and receive Christ, have Christ, man is lost... "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.? Luke 135 Sin and church going to hell, literally sin and church going to hell. We all need to be born again, there is no other way. "Jesus answered him, ?Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.? John 33 I know what i'm talking about. I was slave to the drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality and many more, yet he saved me. There is no greater thing than have a relationship with Christ, and i think people dont uderstand it, but as i look back i know why they don understand it, they're blinded, they can't see. "...the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." 2 cor 44 You will soon see war in the middle east, martial law in usa, economic worldwide collapse. We're in the way to the world war 3. The two witnesses will soon appear. Maybe then you will see that i'm not lying. Come to the Lord Jesus Christ while is time, because hour is late. I beg, all of you, for your own good. I just want to help you all. He can save you. God bless.
Salaamunelikum/peace unto you Brother
I would like to give you a brief introduction to Islam and Muslim
The single most important belief in Islam, is that there is one God. The Muslim name for God is Allah, which is simply Arabic for "the (al) God (Ilah)."
Muslims believe that God is the all-powerful Creator of a perfect, ordered universe. He is transcendent and not a part of his creation, and is most often referred to in terms and with names that emphasize his majesty and superiority. Among the 99 Beautiful Names of God (Asma al-Husna) in the Qur'an are the Creator, the Fashioner, the Life-Giver, the Provider, the Opener, the Bestower, the Prevailer, the Reckoner, the Recorder, the King of Kingship and the Lord of the Worlds.
Allah exist with his words and His words are in Quran. Quran is the first and the final Book revealed by Allah for the guidance of the mankind. And it is the only Book in the world which claims to be a guide for the mankind. It is a common belief that Allah sent other Books before Quran, such as Torah and Gospel. The word Torah, which is Tauraat and Gospel which is Injeel in Quran has always been mistranslated by translators over the years and it was further copied by translator to translator into their translations. These words Tauraat, Injeel are the attributes of the Book/Quran. Tauraat means Law, Injeel means good new, Quran means reading, Furqaan means criterion and so on. Quran state that the same book/Al-Kitab was given to all the Prophets in the verses 683-90, in this verse The Book is in singular and it was given to 17 prophets.
As mentioned earlier, we believe in One Allah, and Allah exist with his words among ourselves, therefore, Allah states that any book about Allah other than Allah will be full of contradictions.
"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." 4;82
Thus it opens itself up for examination. And challenges the reader to try to disprove it by finding any contradictions within in.
Now keeping that in mind lets analyse Bible as a word of Allah. Christian faith mainly revolves around Jesus and the first contradiction Bible state, it is about Jesus genealogy.
According to Bible, of the four Gospel writers, God ?inspired? only two of them to record the genealogy of His ?son? to make it easy for you to compare the ?fathers and grandfathers? of Jesus Christ in both the ?inspired? lists. Matthew to record only 26 ancestors for His ?son?. But Luke had also ?inspired,?gathered upto 41 forefathers for Jesus. The only name common to these two lists between David and Jesus is Joseph and that too a ? supposed? father according to Luke 323 (AV). This one name is glaring. Could both the lists have emanated from the same source, i.e. God?
Secondly, Jesus (p.b.u.h) is mentioned as son of man 83 times and Son of God 13 times in the Bible. So, was Jesus a son of man or Son of God. The writers can not make their mind up as Jesus was a son of man or son of God?
Christian world attributes to Jesus as Word of God, a Sign, Mercy, A Messenger, and a Prophet. But his attributes can nowhere be found in Bible but only in Quran.
In Quran, Essa Ibne Marium/Jesus is mentioned 25 times and with his attributed names
when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word/kalima from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near . 345
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is one Allah Glory be to Him (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 4171
He said "So (it will be) Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us'It is a matter (so) decreed." 1922
said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Book and made me a prophet. 1930
According to the Bible Jesus only knew Torah and Gospel, but according to Quran Allah taught him The Book, Taurat and Injeel.
"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, Taurt and Injeel. 348
According to Bible Jesus called his mother "Woman" John 2, but according to Quran Jesus was kind to his mother
(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; 1932
According to Bible the Disciples forsook Jesus and fled ST.Mark 14, Quran states that Disciples were with Jesus and they were MUSLIMS
But when Jesus felt disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims . 352
According to Quran Allah causes Jesus to die but Bible states he was killed on the Cross
And when Allah said ?O? Essa /Jesus I will mutawaffika/ complete you (your soul / self / psyche) and raafiooka / raise you (in degrees) to Myself and purify you from those who reject, and I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject towards the day of judgement. so you will return to Me, then I will judge between you in the matters where you differ.? 355
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not- 4157
How can anyone presume that Allah Almighty will leave his prophets/messenger on the mercy of this corrupt world.
O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. 567
Finally, Allah tell us about your invitation
And they say "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." 2211
So, brother produce your proof as what you are telling us.
Peace unto you.
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Salaam,
The Gospel found in the Bible is the testimony of several followers of Jesus and it is right that Jesus never wrote any book and those versions of the Gospel are not written by God at all. However, despite the distortion and corruption, they still portray a partial Truth.
They were biased by the viewpoint of each follower, and the early Christian church may have distorted them further. There were most likely more versions written, which were more accurate, but they disappeared along the way.
The Bible portrays Jesus as a most humble man, pure from sin, thus perfectly righteous. The saying of Jesus "Woman!" never occurred, that is a Bible corruption, the Law commands us to respect our parents and Jesus would never have broken the Law.
Either the witness misinterpreted the situation, the language mistranslated or the early church added words to this text.
The prophets of old, those of the Torah, wrote various scriptures, which were later gathered together. Corrupted, distorted, over the years, they portray the partial Truth, but they are far from useless. These writings are their of testimonies of the Truth and was not written by God, even if these people were most righteous believers.
They knew from God what others did not.
God bless you
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"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 146
Jesus spoke in metaphors, the truth in those metaphors will be shown to you only if God wills, and after a lot of reasoning. Not during a night of dreams.
Jesus is the way? yes. But, remember Jesus metaphorically was the word of God incarnated. Therefore, the way and the truth and the life is contained in the Torah, the Psalms, what remains of the gospel, and the Qur'an. And yes, No one goes to the Father except through His word.
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Salaamunelikum/peace unto you Brother
I would like to give you a brief introduction to Islam and Muslim
The single most important belief in Islam, is that there is one God. The Muslim name for God is Allah, which is simply Arabic for "the (al) God (Ilah)."
Muslims believe that God is the all-powerful Creator of a perfect, ordered universe. He is transcendent and not a part of his creation, and is most often referred to in terms and with names that emphasize his majesty and superiority. Among the 99 Beautiful Names of God (Asma al-Husna) in the Qur'an are the Creator, the Fashioner, the Life-Giver, the Provider, the Opener, the Bestower, the Prevailer, the Reckoner, the Recorder, the King of Kingship and the Lord of the Worlds.
Allah exist with his words and His words are in Quran. Quran is the first and the final Book revealed by Allah for the guidance of the mankind. And it is the only Book in the world which claims to be a guide for the mankind. It is a common belief that Allah sent other Books before Quran, such as Torah and Gospel. The word Torah, which is Tauraat and Gospel which is Injeel in Quran has always been mistranslated by translators over the years and it was further copied by translator to translator into their translations. These words Tauraat, Injeel are the attributes of the Book/Quran. Tauraat means Law, Injeel means good new, Quran means reading, Furqaan means criterion and so on. Quran state that the same book/Al-Kitab was given to all the Prophets in the verses 683-90, in this verse The Book is in singular and it was given to 17 prophets.
As mentioned earlier, we believe in One Allah, and Allah exist with his words among ourselves, therefore, Allah states that any book about Allah other than Allah will be full of contradictions.
"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." 4;82
Thus it opens itself up for examination. And challenges the reader to try to disprove it by finding any contradictions within in.
Now keeping that in mind lets analyse Bible as a word of Allah. Christian faith mainly revolves around Jesus and the first contradiction Bible state, it is about Jesus genealogy.
According to Bible, of the four Gospel writers, God ?inspired? only two of them to record the genealogy of His ?son? to make it easy for you to compare the ?fathers and grandfathers? of Jesus Christ in both the ?inspired? lists. Matthew to record only 26 ancestors for His ?son?. But Luke had also ?inspired,?gathered upto 41 forefathers for Jesus. The only name common to these two lists between David and Jesus is Joseph and that too a ? supposed? father according to Luke 323 (AV). This one name is glaring. Could both the lists have emanated from the same source, i.e. God?
Secondly, Jesus (p.b.u.h) is mentioned as son of man 83 times and Son of God 13 times in the Bible. So, was Jesus a son of man or Son of God. The writers can not make their mind up as Jesus was a son of man or son of God?
Christian world attributes to Jesus as Word of God, a Sign, Mercy, A Messenger, and a Prophet. But his attributes can nowhere be found in Bible but only in Quran.
In Quran, Essa Ibne Marium/Jesus is mentioned 25 times and with his attributed names
when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word/kalima from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near . 345
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is one Allah Glory be to Him (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 4171
He said "So (it will be) Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us'It is a matter (so) decreed." 1922
said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Book and made me a prophet. 1930
According to the Bible Jesus only knew Torah and Gospel, but according to Quran Allah taught him The Book, Taurat and Injeel.
"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, Taurt and Injeel. 348
According to Bible Jesus called his mother "Woman" John 2, but according to Quran Jesus was kind to his mother
(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; 1932
According to Bible the Disciples forsook Jesus and fled ST.Mark 14, Quran states that Disciples were with Jesus and they were MUSLIMS
But when Jesus felt disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims . 352
According to Quran Allah causes Jesus to die but Bible states he was killed on the Cross
And when Allah said ?O? Essa /Jesus I will mutawaffika/ complete you (your soul / self / psyche) and raafiooka / raise you (in degrees) to Myself and purify you from those who reject, and I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject towards the day of judgement. so you will return to Me, then I will judge between you in the matters where you differ.? 355
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not- 4157
How can anyone presume that Allah Almighty will leave his prophets/messenger on the mercy of this corrupt world.
O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. 567
Finally, Allah tell us about your invitation
And they say "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." 2211
So, brother produce your proof as what you are telling us.
Peace unto you.
Very nice introduction and summing up...
It is interesting that I noticed the statement that the Qur'an is the very only book God has given to humanity... -
I'm not saying he is God, BUT he is the son of God. The only and one, mediator between God and people. Soon you will see two witnesses, that will be your last chance. Be prepared my friend. God bless
Hello there. Jesus is the son of God in the same sense as was David, Israel & Ephraim
Psalm 27 & Jeremiah 319. -
Greetings and Peace, all group
It would seem that I'm a latecomer to this thread.
Monotheism is the key; all Prophets (Peace upon them all) came with the same message. Following the example of Moses, or Jesus, or Muhammad, or any other Prophet is fine. It so happens that my wife is also a nontrinitarian Christian...no problem from me.
Regarding some claims that a Jesus has a share in Divinity, this is not supported by the Bible, only by agendas. The following are evidences against the claim.
Here is a short version http//www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
Here is a longer, more scholarly version http//www.gutenberg.org/files/15968/15968-pdf.pdf
Others are free to believe as they will.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace Abdul-Hadi,
So your wife is a Muslim, and even if there is a lack of Knowledge if she denies the Messenger of Qur'an and Qur'an itself, she fulfills most of what is required by God. The fundamental Message is the same in "pre-Quranic Islam" as in the Message of Qur'an, so your wife follows God. If I had not discovered about Qur'an alone Islam I would probably also have rather called myself Christian than Muslim, but praise to God I found a trace of Truth to follow, so I now know that the term Muslim is describing a certain person who works towards Islam, God's creed, and could as well call themselves Christian and still be Muslim in case you belong to a group who had the Christ as Messenger.
Anyway, we need to love each other as brothers and be equitable. Best is to use no label at all but Muslim but the label Muslim is very misunderstood not only by Muslims themselves but the external viewers who get a negative appeal by traditionalists as they see Islam as a very strange and foreign religion which does not appeal to them at all and they only see Arabs with weird clothing and practices while Islam is in fact very generic and applicable for anyone. In fact one could continue to live practically as a (non-trinitarian) Christian, only believing in Qur'an as a scripture and gain Knowledge and Wisdom from it.
Bible itself destroys its own arguments that Jesus is God and before someone enlightened me about them I still could not believe that Jesus was God. It is illogical in my opinion, not only considering the story of a son of God who "dies" and is killed by crucifixion seems crude. Apart from that, which father would let his son be killed on a cross while watching from Heaven if he happened to be God? It was so ridiculous when I was a child and teenager and it is still laughable.
God bless you
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Greetings and Peace, all group
I normally write muslim instead of Muslim, unless referring to the popular religion called Islam.
I'd probably be more comfortable and welcome in a UU church instead of a traditional mosque.
There is language in the Bible that demonstrates that the Almighty is One and not part of a trinity. The word "echad" leaves no room for doubt in this matter.
http//www.21stcr.org/multimedia-2011/1-articles/ab-echad.html
People have the right to believe whatever they will on this earth. We don't have to agree with them if they are in error, but should stay true to our Guidance.
2136 Say "We believe in GOD and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make a distinction between any of them and to Him we submit."
2137 So, if they believe exactly as you have believed, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then they are in opposition and GOD will suffice you against them, and He is the Hearer, the Knower.
6108 And do not insult those who call on other than GOD, lest they insult GOD out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done.
4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to GOD, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have submitted."
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salaam brother,
No problem if you call it muslim. I did that for a time as well and I agree that it may sometimes feel better not to affiliate yourself with those who adhere to the populist religion "Islam" instead of the ultimate goal of a person towards islam, but these days when I say Muslim I talk about those who work towards Islam, see the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605447.0 for a reference to what I mean. You are right and I would also rather go to a UU Church than a traditional mosque. My point was that your wife is muslim as in what Qur'an and God defines as a Muslim and not what falsifiers believe.
God bless you
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Allah is NOT a NAME of a God. Allah is simply God in Arabic. Christian Arabs use Allah too. There is a difference between Allah and ilah . Ilah is used to refer to pagan god(s).
Of course, there are some people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike (who are not Arabic speakers, mostly), think that Allah is a personal name of God in Islam. This is bull****.
Many Quran aloners / God alone muslims have known about this but there are some QAs who are still stuck in their traditional thinking.
Allah (Arabic) = Alla (Maltese) = God (English) = Dios (Spanish) = Deus (Portuguese) = Dieu (French) = Gott (German) = Gud (Swedish)
Sorry for being off-topic.
This post is directed to someone who wrote Allah is Muslim name for God. -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Indeed
5924 He is GOD; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful names. Glorifying Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Noble, the Wise.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salaam,
He has none but all beautiful names bound to His grace, so use whatever seems good to you. The followers of Zarathustra say Ahura Mazda.
The literal meaning of the word Ahura means light and Mazda means wisdom
Quote from Wikipedia.org
EDIT Sent a PM to noshirk instead of going more off-topic here.
God bless you