Second Shahadah vs Actual Shahadah in the Quran
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Salaam,
From the start, when I "became Muslim", I felt it was silly to say that I witness that Muhammad is His messenger. It is to make Islam into something like an upgrade of an already existing religion, God?s religion, causing it to become a sect.
Well, in that case I can witness that dozens of other messengers were also doing this job too?
But I feel it would be insensible to ramble the names of dozens of messengers, which God already know were His servants.
Declaring that God is the only God is enough and it means you accept His religion and all that He sent down. You reinforce this testimony by living as He has taught you.
God bless you
Salaam,
that's exactly how I feel. It seems very odd to say any specific Messengers name. Why don't people say I bear witness the Quran is the book of Allah, or I bear witness that the original Torah and Gospel have been corrupted? It's like the story of the calf where people were not satisfied with what Moses stated to them. They wanted more and more until the task became difficult and the Quran states they barely believed.
Hello @supportpeacenotwar and @Man of Faith,
I feel the same as you and I agree with your posts. Thank you for writing it.
There is only One God, but many prophets, messengers, teachers and helpers.
The main thing in our life is our relationship with God.
All the rest should only help that.I thank God for giving us all so many possibilities to connect to Him, and I ask God to forgive me for whatever shortcomings and mistakes I might make.
Peace to you all.
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Hello @supportpeacenotwar and @Man of Faith,
I feel the same as you and I agree with your posts. Thank you for writing it.
There is only One God, but many prophets, messengers, teachers and helpers.
The main thing in our life is our relationship with God.
All the rest should only help that.I thank God for giving us all so many possibilities to connect to Him, and I ask God to forgive me for whatever shortcomings and mistakes I might make.
Peace to you all.
Peace,
That's a beautiful sentiment. Thank you for your responses. The simplicity of the declaration of faith seems to be only understood by those who truly care to bring themselves closer to God.
In terms of the original point of this thread, I learnt quite a bit in the short amount of time I spoke to this individual - about patience as well . Maybe I said something that slightly offended him although I never meant to and that was not my intention and I still don't fully get it because there was a breakdown in communication really. And this person is very outspoken about criticisms about Islam which made it slightly more puzzling. I ended up being called "weird" and what with swear words, I think my time with this individual has drawn to a close. It goes to show debate has its place but limitations. Life is one big learning experience. May Allah (swt) guide us to what is best and open a way up for all of us. )
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Greetings and peace, all group
@supportpeacenotwar There used to be an excellent article on the main page about Shahada. Some of the points brought up in the article included the following one can't be a witness to something that has not been personally experienced, none other than ALLAH should be mentioned, that we are commanded to not make distinctions between the messengers (peace upon them all), and that ALLAH suffices as a witness.
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.
3945 And when GOD alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
1796 Say "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you. He is Expert and Seer over His servants."
4152 And those who believe in GOD and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them, We will give them their recompense. And GOD is Forgiving, Merciful.
Don't forget to search the forums for Shahada...there are plenty of discussions.
It can be argued that there are many "Shahada" in AQ. Consider 2131...
2131When his Lord said to him "Submit," he said "I submit to the Lord of the worlds."
Why is this so especially meaningful? Here's why!
2130 And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and peace, all group
@supportpeacenotwar There used to be an excellent article on the main page about Shahada. Some of the points brought up in the article included the following one can't be a witness to something that has not been personally experienced, none other than ALLAH should be mentioned, that we are commanded to not make distinctions between the messengers (peace upon them all), and that ALLAH suffices as a witness.
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.
3945 And when GOD alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
1796 Say "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you. He is Expert and Seer over His servants."
4152 And those who believe in GOD and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them, We will give them their recompense. And GOD is Forgiving, Merciful.
Don't forget to search the forums for Shahada...there are plenty of discussions.
It can be argued that there are many "Shahada" in AQ. Consider 2131...
2131When his Lord said to him "Submit," he said "I submit to the Lord of the worlds."
Why is this so especially meaningful? Here's why!
2130 And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Salaam Abdul-Hadi,
Thank you, that's a great response! That's actually an important point about bearing witness and personal experience which I overlooked. I will definitely search here as well. This guy was actually particularly persistent in that we are insinuating this declaration from the Quran - I showed him another article from a website about it online that included further details - but that Quran verse about the creed of Abraham is a really useful point in response.
Peace and blessings. ) peace
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Greetings and peace, all
@supportpeacenotwar There used to be an excellent article on the main page about Shahada. Some of the points brought up in the article included the following one can't be a witness to something that has not been personally experienced, none other than ALLAH should be mentioned, that we are commanded to not make distinctions between the messengers (peace upon them all), and that ALLAH suffices as a witness.
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.3945 And when GOD alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
Assalamo alaikum,
Does this have even remote relationship with a Messenger or the Messengers? Who are others which people like to be mentioned besides Him the Exalted?
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@supportpeacenotwar There used to be an excellent article on the main page about Shahada. Some of the points brought up in the article included the following one can't be a witness to something that has not been personally experienced, none other than ALLAH should be mentioned, that we are commanded to not make distinctions between the messengers (peace upon them all), and that ALLAH suffices as a witness.
Salaam,
I don't see any aayat asking us to witness Allah, forget about others. If you know any aayat asking us to witness Allah, please do share.
And please take a look at this, inshaAllah, it may help you understand what I am trying to say.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam,
I don't see any aayat asking us to witness Allah, forget about others. If you know any aayat asking us to witness Allah, please do share.
And please take a look at this, inshaAllah, it may help you understand what I am trying to say.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanSalamun alaika,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18c.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.06a.gifAllah the Exalted has testified
That the certain fact about Him the Exalted is in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, none were and is a living reality except Him; Allah the Exalted.
Similarly the Angels and the Men of Knowledge do testify to that effect.
He the Exalted is the firm upholder of created realm with justice and equity.
None at all in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, there were or is a living reality except He; Allah the Exalted.
He the Exalted is All-Pervasive, the dominant and eternally the Wise; Knower of invisible/ secreted/infolded-codified.
Word by Word analysis 318
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Salamun alaika,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18c.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.06a.gifAllah the Exalted has testified
That the certain fact about Him the Exalted is in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, none were and is a living reality except Him; Allah the Exalted.
Similarly the Angels and the Men of Knowledge do testify to that effect.
He the Exalted is the firm upholder of created realm with justice and equity.
None at all in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, there were or is a living reality except He; Allah the Exalted.
He the Exalted is All-Pervasive, the dominant and eternally the Wise; Knower of invisible/ secreted/infolded-codified.
Word by Word analysis 318
Salaam,
You added a lot into your translation which is not there in arabic but at the moment I am only curious about the red highlighted words, where can we find them in the arabic text?
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
You added a lot into your translation which is not there in arabic but at the moment I am only curious about the red highlighted words, where can we find them in the arabic text?
Salaam,
BenderSalamun alaika,
Please see the case endings of the words and the conjunctions. Both have meanings. Syntactic analysis is also given in the side box of the link for conveneince. Graphic representation of dependcies is also available at Leeds site http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=3&verse=18&token=8.
Waw Appositive/Conjunction particle. It links the following words to the preceding verbal sentence.Replacing "similarly" with "and" will convey the same meanings.
Words "Angels" and "Men of Knowledge" both are in nominative case, as is Allah the Subject of Verb. They all are the subjects of the same verb.
Actual mistake in my translation you did not point out. Instead of "do testify", it should be "did testify" since the verb is Perfect from - Verbal noun.
003.018
YUSUFALI There is no god but He That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
PICKTHAL Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no Allah save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise.
SHAKIR Allah bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise. -
Salamun alaika,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18c.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.06a.gifAllah the Exalted has testified
That the certain fact about Him the Exalted is in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, none were and is a living reality except Him; Allah the Exalted.
Similarly the Angels and the Men of Knowledge do testify to that effect.
He the Exalted is the firm upholder of created realm with justice and equity.
None at all in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, there were or is a living reality except He; Allah the Exalted.
He the Exalted is All-Pervasive, the dominant and eternally the Wise; Knower of invisible/ secreted/infolded-codified.
Word by Word analysis 318
Salaamun a3laika,
I would like to highlight a point.
318
318 Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him, and the angels and those of knowledge - maintaining in justice. There is no deity except Him, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.Allah is being witness is not equal to give/say it, so, it is not for us also to say. Please take a look at the same word in 2185 and look at the translations of same word in these two aayaat.
2185
2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.I think, if you are able to understand what this word "shahida" means, then you may able to understand what 318 is about.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
318 Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him,
Salamun alaika
None of the translators has translated like this.witnesses 3rd person present singular--- to see something happen.
"witnessed" is the appropriate translation of verb appearing in the above quoted second Ayah where it is made from verbal Noun - which requires an object to complete the meanings.
Same verb in is from verbal noun which requires a statment because it is for bearing witness--to give evidence---testify about something.
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Greetings and peace, all
@supportpeacenotwar There used to be an excellent article on the main page about Shahada. Some of the points brought up in the article included the following one can't be a witness to something that has not been personally experienced, none other than ALLAH should be mentioned, that we are commanded to not make distinctions between the messengers (peace upon them all), and that ALLAH suffices as a witness.
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.3945 And when GOD alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
Assalamo alaikum,
Does this have even remote relationship with a Messenger or the Messengers? Who are others which people like to be mentioned besides Him the Exalted?
Salaam Mazhar,
Many thanks to you, as well as to the other contributors to this thread, even if some of us may disagree with each other.
It makes sense to me from my reading of the Quran that we do testify to the oneness of God from the verses you have mentioned in this, and other posts. This also includes the fact that the whole Quran centers on the oneness of God and that La ilaha illAllah in its many forms or variations is used throughout the Quran. As believers, we both believe and testify to the knowledge we have received that there is one God.
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It makes sense to me from my reading of the Quran that we do testify to the oneness of God from the verses you have mentioned in this, and other posts.
We do testify the oneness of Allah the Exalted. But when we say this
we say something totally different. Here does not mean a singular god but a set of gods because it is the subject noun of La Particle of negation of genus. Its identification is that it remders the following noun in accusative case. And a genus comprises of many entities. The ground reality is that there are quite many things, abstract as well tangibles like sculpted idols which are considered by many people as miscellaneous .
The predicate of La is embedded or elided, we may say. What is the most important characteristic trait and peculiarity of Allah the Exalted? What is the most important and primary difference between Allah the Exalted and and all others who were or are considered and worshipped as by billions of people? That is the elided predicate of La
Determine this and then the importance of the second part which people testify after this statement might become obvious.
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We do testify the oneness of Allah the Exalted. But when we say this
we say something totally different. Here does not mean a singular god but a set of gods because it is the subject noun of La Particle of negation of genus. Its identification is that it remders the following noun in accusative case. And a genus comprises of many entities. The ground reality is that there are quite many things, abstract as well tangibles like sculpted idols which are considered by many people as miscellaneous .
The predicate of La is embedded or elided, we may say. What is the most important characteristic trait and peculiarity of Allah the Exalted? What is the most important and primary difference between Allah the Exalted and and all others who were or are considered and worshipped as by billions of people? That is the elided predicate of La
Determine this and then the importance of the second part which people testify after this statement might become obvious.
Wow, brilliant post - but it's a lot to take in and I'm so used to transliteration - no criticism intended. I've always thought of There is no god but Allah in quite a "simple" way - that these other gods are created and finite. They will not be the Last for example, whereas Allah is the First and the Last. But you've given me quite a bit to ponder!
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Wow, brilliant post - but it's a lot to take in and I'm so used to transliteration - no criticism intended. I've always thought of There is no god but Allah in quite a "simple" way - that these other gods are created and finite. They will not be the Last for example, whereas Allah is the First and the Last. But you've given me quite a bit to ponder!
Thanks, a little reflection on this most important and truthful statement-first part of "shahadah" may also help discard the myth about Easa alahissalam. This Shahadah emphatically tells he is dead long before revelation of Qur'aan. He is one of that set who are considered as by many.
Whoever, other than Allah the Exalted is called by anyone the world over is dead, the opposite of living. So Easa alahissalam is also dead.
They all are dead-matter whose characteristic feature is the opposite of living and life.
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Salamun alaika
None of the translators has translated like this.witnesses 3rd person present singular--- to see something happen.
"witnessed" is the appropriate translation of verb appearing in the above quoted second Ayah where it is made from verbal Noun - which requires an object to complete the meanings.
Same verb in is from verbal noun which requires a statment because it is for bearing witness--to give evidence---testify about something.
Salaamun a3laika,
Its not me who translated as "witnesses" but I have just copied Sahih International's translation. Please take a look at 318 here.
How will you translate the same word in 4386 and 4610?
4386
4610
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Greetings and peace, all group
This seems to be (more or less) a copy of the article formerly posted on FM.
http//www.underkastelse.org/Gud/shahada.html
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Keep up the good work.
Unfortunately, too complicated grammer stuff for me here. Can anyone maybe tell me, how do you guys (and girls) learn all these grammer rules, etc.? I can read and understand basic arabic, but some things here are looking like Chineese for me. o
Edit like this
we say something totally different. Here does not mean a singular god but a set of gods because it is the subject noun of La Particle of negation of genus. Its identification is that it remders the following noun in accusative case. And a genus comprises of many entities. The ground reality is that there are quite many things, abstract as well tangibles like sculpted idols which are considered by many people as miscellaneous .
The predicate of La is embedded or elided, we may say. What is the most important characteristic trait and peculiarity of Allah the Exalted? What is the most important and primary difference between Allah the Exalted and and all others who were or are considered and worshipped as by billions of people? That is the elided predicate of La
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I can read and understand basic arabic, but some things here are looking like Chineese for me.
Salamun alaika,
You say you "can read and understand basic arabic" but its grammar looks like chineese to you. Either of the two seems incorrectly held opinion. It is because reading and simultaneously understanding Arabic text is not possible if one does not know basic grammar of languagre.
Since you can read, you need a little effort and time to learn the grammar of Arabic of Qur'aan. It is the simplest of all grammars of other languages, I assure you.
Qur'aan is rendered facilitative to learn and comprehend
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Greetings and peace, all group
This seems to be (more or less) a copy of the article formerly posted on FM.
http//www.underkastelse.org/Gud/shahada.html
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Salaam,
Oh, that's the exact article I showed him since I have a link to it on my youtube channel. ) Thanks for searching for it.