Second Shahadah vs Actual Shahadah in the Quran

Mazhar

Salaam,

I don't see any aayat asking us to witness Allah, forget about others. If you know any aayat asking us to witness Allah, please do share.

And please take a look at this, inshaAllah, it may help you understand what I am trying to say.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Salamun alaika,

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Allah the Exalted has testified

That the certain fact about Him the Exalted is in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, none were and is a living reality except Him; Allah the Exalted.

Similarly the Angels and the Men of Knowledge do testify to that effect.

He the Exalted is the firm upholder of created realm with justice and equity.

None at all in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, there were or is a living reality except He; Allah the Exalted.

He the Exalted is All-Pervasive, the dominant and eternally the Wise; Knower of invisible/ secreted/infolded-codified.

Word by Word analysis 318

Bender

Salamun alaika,

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18a.gif
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Allah the Exalted has testified

That the certain fact about Him the Exalted is in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, none were and is a living reality except Him; Allah the Exalted.

Similarly the Angels and the Men of Knowledge do testify to that effect.

He the Exalted is the firm upholder of created realm with justice and equity.

None at all in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, there were or is a living reality except He; Allah the Exalted.

He the Exalted is All-Pervasive, the dominant and eternally the Wise; Knower of invisible/ secreted/infolded-codified.

Word by Word analysis 318

Salaam,

You added a lot into your translation which is not there in arabic but at the moment I am only curious about the red highlighted words, where can we find them in the arabic text?

Salaam,
Bender

Mazhar

Salaam,

You added a lot into your translation which is not there in arabic but at the moment I am only curious about the red highlighted words, where can we find them in the arabic text?

Salaam,
Bender

Salamun alaika,

Please see the case endings of the words and the conjunctions. Both have meanings. Syntactic analysis is also given in the side box of the link for conveneince. Graphic representation of dependcies is also available at Leeds site http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=3&verse=18&token=8.
Waw Appositive/Conjunction particle. It links the following words to the preceding verbal sentence.

Replacing "similarly" with "and" will convey the same meanings.

Words "Angels" and "Men of Knowledge" both are in nominative case, as is Allah the Subject of Verb. They all are the subjects of the same verb.

Actual mistake in my translation you did not point out. Instead of "do testify", it should be "did testify" since the verb is Perfect from - Verbal noun.

003.018
YUSUFALI There is no god but He That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
PICKTHAL Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no Allah save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise.
SHAKIR Allah bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise.

mmkhan

Salamun alaika,

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.18a.gif
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Allah the Exalted has testified

That the certain fact about Him the Exalted is in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, none were and is a living reality except Him; Allah the Exalted.

Similarly the Angels and the Men of Knowledge do testify to that effect.

He the Exalted is the firm upholder of created realm with justice and equity.

None at all in the set of iela'aha; gods-deities, there were or is a living reality except He; Allah the Exalted.

He the Exalted is All-Pervasive, the dominant and eternally the Wise; Knower of invisible/ secreted/infolded-codified.

Word by Word analysis 318

Salaamun a3laika,

I would like to highlight a point.

318
318 Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him, and the angels and those of knowledge - maintaining in justice. There is no deity except Him, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Allah is being witness is not equal to give/say it, so, it is not for us also to say. Please take a look at the same word in 2185 and look at the translations of same word in these two aayaat.

2185
2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.

I think, if you are able to understand what this word "shahida" means, then you may able to understand what 318 is about.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Mazhar

318 Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him,

Salamun alaika
None of the translators has translated like this.

witnesses 3rd person present singular--- to see something happen.

"witnessed" is the appropriate translation of verb appearing in the above quoted second Ayah where it is made from verbal Noun - which requires an object to complete the meanings.

Same verb in is from verbal noun which requires a statment because it is for bearing witness--to give evidence---testify about something.

supportpeacenotwar

Greetings and peace, all

@supportpeacenotwar There used to be an excellent article on the main page about Shahada. Some of the points brought up in the article included the following one can't be a witness to something that has not been personally experienced, none other than ALLAH should be mentioned, that we are commanded to not make distinctions between the messengers (peace upon them all), and that ALLAH suffices as a witness.
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.

3945 And when GOD alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!

Assalamo alaikum,

Does this have even remote relationship with a Messenger or the Messengers? Who are others which people like to be mentioned besides Him the Exalted?

Salaam Mazhar,

Many thanks to you, as well as to the other contributors to this thread, even if some of us may disagree with each other.

It makes sense to me from my reading of the Quran that we do testify to the oneness of God from the verses you have mentioned in this, and other posts. This also includes the fact that the whole Quran centers on the oneness of God and that La ilaha illAllah in its many forms or variations is used throughout the Quran. As believers, we both believe and testify to the knowledge we have received that there is one God.

Mazhar

It makes sense to me from my reading of the Quran that we do testify to the oneness of God from the verses you have mentioned in this, and other posts.

We do testify the oneness of Allah the Exalted. But when we say this

we say something totally different. Here does not mean a singular god but a set of gods because it is the subject noun of La Particle of negation of genus. Its identification is that it remders the following noun in accusative case. And a genus comprises of many entities. The ground reality is that there are quite many things, abstract as well tangibles like sculpted idols which are considered by many people as miscellaneous .

The predicate of La is embedded or elided, we may say. What is the most important characteristic trait and peculiarity of Allah the Exalted? What is the most important and primary difference between Allah the Exalted and and all others who were or are considered and worshipped as by billions of people? That is the elided predicate of La

Determine this and then the importance of the second part which people testify after this statement might become obvious.

supportpeacenotwar

We do testify the oneness of Allah the Exalted. But when we say this

we say something totally different. Here does not mean a singular god but a set of gods because it is the subject noun of La Particle of negation of genus. Its identification is that it remders the following noun in accusative case. And a genus comprises of many entities. The ground reality is that there are quite many things, abstract as well tangibles like sculpted idols which are considered by many people as miscellaneous .

The predicate of La is embedded or elided, we may say. What is the most important characteristic trait and peculiarity of Allah the Exalted? What is the most important and primary difference between Allah the Exalted and and all others who were or are considered and worshipped as by billions of people? That is the elided predicate of La

Determine this and then the importance of the second part which people testify after this statement might become obvious.

Wow, brilliant post - but it's a lot to take in and I'm so used to transliteration - no criticism intended. I've always thought of There is no god but Allah in quite a "simple" way - that these other gods are created and finite. They will not be the Last for example, whereas Allah is the First and the Last. But you've given me quite a bit to ponder!

Mazhar

Wow, brilliant post - but it's a lot to take in and I'm so used to transliteration - no criticism intended. I've always thought of There is no god but Allah in quite a "simple" way - that these other gods are created and finite. They will not be the Last for example, whereas Allah is the First and the Last. But you've given me quite a bit to ponder!

Thanks, a little reflection on this most important and truthful statement-first part of "shahadah" may also help discard the myth about Easa alahissalam. This Shahadah emphatically tells he is dead long before revelation of Qur'aan. He is one of that set who are considered as by many.

Whoever, other than Allah the Exalted is called by anyone the world over is dead, the opposite of living. So Easa alahissalam is also dead.

They all are dead-matter whose characteristic feature is the opposite of living and life.

mmkhan

Salamun alaika
None of the translators has translated like this.

witnesses 3rd person present singular--- to see something happen.

"witnessed" is the appropriate translation of verb appearing in the above quoted second Ayah where it is made from verbal Noun - which requires an object to complete the meanings.

Same verb in is from verbal noun which requires a statment because it is for bearing witness--to give evidence---testify about something.

Salaamun a3laika,

Its not me who translated as "witnesses" but I have just copied Sahih International's translation. Please take a look at 318 here.

How will you translate the same word in 4386 and 4610?

4386

4610

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and peace, all group

This seems to be (more or less) a copy of the article formerly posted on FM.

http//www.underkastelse.org/Gud/shahada.html

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

mohf

Keep up the good work.

Unfortunately, too complicated grammer stuff for me here. Can anyone maybe tell me, how do you guys (and girls) learn all these grammer rules, etc.? I can read and understand basic arabic, but some things here are looking like Chineese for me. o

Edit like this

we say something totally different. Here does not mean a singular god but a set of gods because it is the subject noun of La Particle of negation of genus. Its identification is that it remders the following noun in accusative case. And a genus comprises of many entities. The ground reality is that there are quite many things, abstract as well tangibles like sculpted idols which are considered by many people as miscellaneous .

The predicate of La is embedded or elided, we may say. What is the most important characteristic trait and peculiarity of Allah the Exalted? What is the most important and primary difference between Allah the Exalted and and all others who were or are considered and worshipped as by billions of people? That is the elided predicate of La

Mazhar

I can read and understand basic arabic, but some things here are looking like Chineese for me.

Salamun alaika,

You say you "can read and understand basic arabic" but its grammar looks like chineese to you. Either of the two seems incorrectly held opinion. It is because reading and simultaneously understanding Arabic text is not possible if one does not know basic grammar of languagre.

Since you can read, you need a little effort and time to learn the grammar of Arabic of Qur'aan. It is the simplest of all grammars of other languages, I assure you.

Qur'aan is rendered facilitative to learn and comprehend

supportpeacenotwar

Greetings and peace, all group

This seems to be (more or less) a copy of the article formerly posted on FM.

http//www.underkastelse.org/Gud/shahada.html

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Salaam,

Oh, that's the exact article I showed him since I have a link to it on my youtube channel. ) Thanks for searching for it.

Mazhar

Salaam,

Oh, that's the exact article I showed him since I have a link to it on my youtube channel. ) Thanks for searching for it.

The author is a psychological manipulator but very poorly equipped with tactics of such manipulators.

He is trying to convince that by testifying the fact that Muhammad sas is the Messenger of Allah the Exalted is equivalent to "shirk". He opines "This is tantamount to idolatry as associating another person with God is committing 'shirk' the unforgivable offence."

He naively forgets that here he is using the word "associating" in the meanings of "a partner". He does not tell the audience that the Shahadah does not contain a single word which signifies "association" in the meanings of a "partner". On the contrary, the true Shahdah indicates a relationship of a Sovereign and a subject but not partner-associate. When we say Muhammad sas is the Messenger of Allah we let the public know that we do not treat and consider him as divine, or partner or associate of Allah the Exalted, rather he is merely the Messenger to convey the message. This further emphasises that Allah is the only ielaha Who is The Living since only alive can appoint a messenger.

He seems to be member of this group

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How come that Allah the Exalted shall guide a people who denied after their acceptance and state of belief?
And they had publicly testified that the Messenger is infallibly truthful. And distinguishingly explanatory verbal communications had come to them.

And be mindful that Allah the Exalted does not guide people who are mischievous-distorters and substitute facts with conjectures-myths-concocted stories.

Word by Word grammatical analysis 386

003.086
YUSUFALI How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and (after) they bore witness that the messenger is true and after clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) had come unto them. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Messenger was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

I doubt anyone will be punished for not saying the phrase that one witnesses that Muhammad is a Messenger of God.

This prophet is dead, but perhaps the testimony was valid while he was alive. It feels irrelevant today and a bit silly to express it these days.

But you are right, it is probably not shirk to testify that Muhammad is a Messenger of God, at least not unless you do it because of glorification of him. The intention can make anything shirk.

Prophet Muhammad can be a role model, this does not make it shirk. His good example can be found in the Quran, as well as many other messengers through history.

Excessive commemoration of a Messenger is tantamount to shirk, because it means one seems to praise this person for what God has sent. That the prophet never leaves your head and one gets obsessed with thinking about him is shirk and that he is more than an ordinary man blessed by God.

Of course, it is difficult to distinguish between shirk and the healthy state of being impressed.

Personally, I feel it is better to drop all focus on prophet Muhammad, I try to even out all lessons on all messengers ever sent instead and follow their example. I do not mention any of them while I pray.

Muhammad is dead and no specific testimony needs to be done, that there is no other god than God is sufficient for me.

However, for someone who accept Islam/Quran as a scripture from God, the testimony may be acceptable in my opinion. To witness (accept) that Muhammad was a Messenger of God. Nothing that is necessary to repeat over and over again though once confessed once.

Jews sort of would require to witness about two messengers then, both Jesus and Muhammad, since they refute the messengership of both of them.

The whole concept of constantly witnessing of messengers seem irrational in my opinion, once you have accepted the Truth.

This testimony (the traditional shahada), is logical to have been used during the life of Muhammad, to distinguish between those who did not accept the Truth. And constant repetition of it could probably also have had a usefulness during this period. It was not shirk, and it was probably also sanctioned by God.

Now, 1400 years later, the traditional shahada is probably still valid, but I doubt it has to be constantly repeated. Like someone has mentioned at some other occasion, it makes more sense to witness that the Quran is the word of God. It carries more weight in my opinion.

Listen to/obey the Messenger is a timeless argument, if there would arise another Messenger this argument would become valid again. The Quran itself is most likely a Messenger too, in a regard.

Anyway, thank you for my words. Conclusion is that it is not wrong to witness that Muhammad was a Messenger of God, but irrelevant to constantly repeat it.

God bless you

Bender

Salamun alaika,

Please see the case endings of the words and the conjunctions. Both have meanings. Syntactic analysis is also given in the side box of the link for conveneince. Graphic representation of dependcies is also available at Leeds site http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=3&verse=18&token=8.
Waw Appositive/Conjunction particle. It links the following words to the preceding verbal sentence.

Replacing "similarly" with "and" will convey the same meanings.

Salaamun alaika,

My english is not that good but I think those 2 words have different meanings if we translate them back to arabic.
I think "similarly" has it's own word in The Quran
213

Words "Angels" and "Men of Knowledge" both are in nominative case, as is Allah the Subject of Verb. They all are the subjects of the same verb.

Verb is singular, "Angels" and "Men of Knowledge" are both plural hmm
Please don't try to explain it with al those term, because I don't understand that, and I am not planning to learn them.
Please give verse numbers where similar usage is used. Thus verses were a verb in singular is used with plural nouns.

If there was need for a second "testify" then it would have been there
4166

Actual mistake in my translation you did not point out. Instead of "do testify", it should be "did testify" since the verb is Perfect from - Verbal noun.

Interesting that you think that this is a mistake while all the words you inserted which are not there in arabic are not mistakes hmm

Salaam,
Bender

Bender

Salaam,

I do not understand that people bring 2844 as evidence for their claim about the "second part" of the sunni sahada while they forget the first part of the sahada.

2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.

So people who do only the first part of the sahada are claiming that they were not witnesses about Musa because they were not there.
But on the other hand are claiming to be witnesses that there is no other god besides Allah &
Anyone who did the first part of sahada, can maybe explain to me how he/she witnessed this.

To bad that in the link Abdul-Hadi posted the author cut a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery important verse in the middle.
How do people understand the red part of the next verse
619

Salaam,
Bender

mirjamnur

Salam all