Is Zina related to sex ?
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Originally what I probleming is about marriage in 55, which says we can marry "ahl kitab".Allah already condemn them in various verses.
I know the kafaru/kufr divided into 2 in the Quran,first Kurf Alkitab (Christian,Jews) and Kufr musyrek (non believe/set equals to Allah).
Now the Trinitian Christ believe Allah has Son, Allah has 3 existence.Is that mean Tritinty teaching nearly enter musryikeen state?
Then what criterion of Ahl Kitab,who we can married to, based on 55?
The point mentioned in the quoted Ayah is rather serious than their assertion about trinity. They are also not called Mushrik.
The identity of People of Book is different from Mushrikeen though both refused to accept Qur'aan.
Let us not equate them.
Allah the Exalted knows everything. Despite having given this information marriage with the independent women of is permitted. -
So what is a actual meaning of mushirk, according to you @noshirk
Shirk is , while believeing in God as ALLAh and believing in Quran
- Taking as educators (RABB) in deen other than ALLAH ( as a prophet , priest, ..). That is relying on other than God and his own mind to understand quran.
- mixing quran with others words not coming from allah and saying that they are as if they were from God or inspired from him
problem is much more complicated for believers in God who didn't received Quran.
Really i cannot write my understanding on this because it is too complex for this thread and we have first to understand what is Quran in Deen islam (remember that abraham, moses and so on were muslims).22 That is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the SALAT, and from Our provisions to them they spend.
24 And those who believe ??? in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
25 These are the ones guided by their Lord, and these are the successful ones.First page of quran (after fatiha) is of great importance.
Peace
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Shirk is , while believeing in God as ALLAh and believing in Quran
- Taking as educators (RABB) in deen other than ALLAH ( as a prophet , priest, ..). That is relying on other than God and his own mind to understand quran.
- mixing quran with others words not coming from allah and saying that they are as if they were from God or inspired from him
problem is much more complicated for believers in God who didn't received Quran.
Really i cannot write my understanding on this because it is too complex for this thread and we have first to understand what is Quran in Deen islam (remember that abraham, moses and so on were muslims).22 That is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the SALAT, and from Our provisions to them they spend.
24 And those who believe ??? in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
25 These are the ones guided by their Lord, and these are the successful ones.First page of quran (after fatiha) is of great importance.
Peace
The problem is
"- Taking as educators (RABB) in deen other than ALLAH ( as a prophet , priest, ..). That is relying on other than God and his own mind to understand quran."
This is purely your invention. One inevitably relies on others to understand Quran. For example learning to read . . . learning Arabic. God himself used others . . . your parents, teachers, prophets . . . etc.
"- mixing quran with others words not coming from allah and saying that they are as if they were from God or inspired from him"
If you mix anything with the Quran as if it was equal to the Quran - then it is form of Shirk. As for divine inspiration - that is much more diffcicult to judge and categorise.
"Really i cannot write my understanding on this because it is too complex for this thread and we have first to understand what is Quran in Deen islam (remember that abraham, moses and so on were muslims)."
Then why the BS before?
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Atheists says God don't exists, Quran is bullshit.
Mochrik Says Allah Akbar and Quran is Sacred but , after that, Muchrik mix words of Allah with other words. Muchrik associate others legislators in deen of Allah than Allah. Mochrik go to teachers other than the only Rabb (educator) of islam and believe their words.Peace
"Muchrik associate others legislators in deen of Allah than Allah."
Wrong - Islam has two legislatives - Allah and Prophet Muhammad.
Although, obviously, their nature is different . . . As Allah is the supreme and absolute authority - where as the legislative powers of The Messenger of Allah are granted by Allah . . . nevertheless - majority of Muslims - since the beginning of Islam - have recognised Prophet Muhammad as a legislative authority.
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Shirk=defaming Allah
Zina=defaming humansMochrik and Zani are same people who love lies and defaming.
A truthfull don't marie liers. Liers of all types marry themselves
hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hailand after , what is your response to penality applied to defamers for murder ?
Peace"Zina=defaming humans"
Wrong . . . Zina has certain meaning . . . and not what you invented.
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Wrong - Islam has two legislatives - Allah and Prophet Muhammad.
No, only Allah who has autharity to create a law.Prophet Muhammad just a mesengger.
"Not upon the Messenger is except notification. And Allah knows whatever you reveal and whatever you conceal."(Shahih International 599)
"The messenger is only to deliver. And God knows what you reveal and what you conceal.(Free-Minds 599).
Following Hadith, doesn't mean you actually follow the Prophet, since it's already fabricated.
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Atheists are not interested in commenting about Qur'aan, Allah and the Messengers.
No Mushrik says Qur'aan is sacred.
Mushrik is he who adores or worships objects - deities termed as miscellaneous gods apart Allah the Exalted.
Atheist adopts his own thoughts, desires etc as worshiping entity.
Can you please tell me the verse # from which you have quoted the above?
thanks.
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Sahih International
2275 Those who consume interest cannot stand except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. That is because they say, "Trade is like interest." But Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest. So whoever has received an admonition from his Lord and desists may have what is past, and his affair rests with Allah . But whoever returns to - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.
2278 O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains of interest, if you should be believers.
2279 And if you do not, then be informed of a war from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal - you do no wrong, nor are you wronged.I know riba has nothing to do with zina. The point I want to make is, that, there are certain laws from God, which, if transgressed, are sinful, while other laws will seperate you from becoming a mo'min / believer.
There is no doubt from those verses that anyone who takes riba is a non-believer. The same way, when I read 243, I read it like anyone who commits/committed/is commiting ZINA is a non believer; therefore, he can only mary a ZANI or a mushrik.
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Zina is actually not from Arabic like word Ameen
The word Zina came from Hebrew language "Zanah" or "Zaw naw" can translated to "adultery, harlot".
Zina can also translated to "bad doing", what kind of bad doing?If we look verses in Quran, that bad doing is adultery.and .This is zina categories in Hadith.
Try think use logic, even hadith already distorted by time or fabricated by someone,.May the fabricator can change hadith, but not the Arabic language because it's very fatal.
If the fabricators change Arabic or mislead the meaning of zina.Then why the Arabs at that time, not did correcting the hadith but accepting zina as adultery.This means zina already means adultery at that time especally for Islamic teaching.
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Salaam mohf
I know riba has nothing to do with zina.
are you sure ?
There is no doubt from those verses that anyone who takes riba is a non-believer. The same way, when I read 243, I read it like anyone who commits/committed/is commiting ZINA is a non believer; therefore, he can only mary a ZANI or a mushrik.
please , my question is clear, unless you suppose all atheists are making adultery, why zani don't marry with atheist ?
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Peace,
I am on vacation on and off now, but I am hoping to write an article on this subject as well as sexual rules/laws of the Quran very soon.
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Salaam mohf
are you sure ?Any reason to associate Zina with Riba?
I am only trying to show that if anyone takes Riba, he is not a believer / mo'min anymore.
And the same thing applies to Zina, anyone who commit Zina is not a believer / mo'min anymore.
Because believers only allowed to marry other believers, and ZANI are not believers, it is forbidden for any ZANI to marry a believer.243 is very clear for me.
please , my question is clear, unless you suppose all atheists are making adultery, why zani don't marry with atheist ?
I never used the word atheist. Kafirs=atheists is not correct. Kafir = mushrikeen + munafiqeen + SOME PARTS of ahl al kitab + Zani + ... etc.
Meaning of kafir is a whole new subject, very complex. I will only say this in the context of the Quran, kafirs KNOW that God exists, BUT they do not obey him, rather, they reject him. If you don't agree, I don't want change subject but pls recheck the verses where God speaks of kafirs, there is no verse that clearly says that kafirs reject the existance of God like atheists do. It is more complex issue.
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Sahih International
2275 Those who consume interest cannot stand except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. That is because they say, "Trade is like interest." But Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest. So whoever has received an admonition from his Lord and desists may have what is past, and his affair rests with Allah . But whoever returns to - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.
2278 O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains of interest, if you should be believers.
2279 And if you do not, then be informed of a war from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal - you do no wrong, nor are you wronged.I know riba has nothing to do with zina. The point I want to make is, that, there are certain laws from God, which, if transgressed, are sinful, while other laws will seperate you from becoming a mo'min / believer.
There is no doubt from those verses that anyone who takes riba is a non-believer. The same way, when I read 243, I read it like anyone who commits/committed/is commiting ZINA is a non believer; therefore, he can only mary a ZANI or a mushrik.
Those who devour exorbitant gains on capital endeavour-stand not except just like the standing of that person whom Cobra transforms confounded by bite.
This parable for their transformation is for the reason that they said to people; "The credit sale is just like the gain charged on capital; usury";
But the fact is that Allah the Exalted has declared the credit sale as permissible and has prohibited the exorbitant gain/usury on capital.
Therefore, he whom advice; information about the difference between credit sale of goods and usury, conveyed by his Sustainer Lord has reached and in compliance thereof he has diligently abstained indulging in it, thereat, the past finalized transactions are for him while his matter rests with Allah the Exalted.
And mind it that if someone reverts to it usury,
thereby such deviants will be the residents-inmates of the scorching Hell-Prison.
They will abide therein permanently.
English word "trade" has no relationship or equivalence with usury. For trade the word used in Qur'aan is Tijarat and is also defined which matches Trade the activity of buying and selling, or sometimes bartering, goods.
Word by Word analysis 2275
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Those who devour exorbitant gains on capital endeavour-stand not except just like the standing of that person whom Cobra transforms confounded by bite.
This parable for their transformation is for the reason that they said to people; "The credit sale is just like the gain charged on capital; usury";
But the fact is that Allah the Exalted has declared the credit sale as permissible and has prohibited the exorbitant gain/usury on capital.
Therefore, he whom advice; information about the difference between credit sale of goods and usury, conveyed by his Sustainer Lord has reached and in compliance thereof he has diligently abstained indulging in it, thereat, the past finalized transactions are for him while his matter rests with Allah the Exalted.
And mind it that if someone reverts to it usury,
thereby such deviants will be the residents-inmates of the scorching Hell-Prison.
They will abide therein permanently.
English word "trade" has no relationship or equivalence with usury. For trade the word used in Qur'aan is Tijarat and is also defined which matches Trade the activity of buying and selling, or sometimes bartering, goods.
Word by Word analysis 2275
And the whole point of your post is... what... give an alternative translation? Does that in any way change my point?
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And the whole point of your post is... what... give an alternative translation? Does that in any way change my point?
Not an alternative but to correct the erroneous translation that you had selected. The point was to indicate that we should first grasp what is stated in Ayahs before stretching them to pass on judgmentsa and infer conclusions like this.
There is no doubt from those verses that anyone who takes riba is a non-believer. The same way, when I read 243, I read it like anyone who commits/committed/is commiting ZINA is a non believer; therefore, he can only mary a ZANI or a mushrik.
The injunction is only about those who are convicted on the strength of prescribed evidence of the crime of having committed Zina. The guilty could be a believing man and non believing woman; or a believing woman and non believing man; or both could be believers. The punishment prescribed is same and future social status is laid down that such convicts can marry only another such convict. Believers are prohibited to marry them.
There could be many believers who indulge secretely in illict intercourse. Thereby they are not Zani as for the society is concerned. Therefore, the injunction should not stretched any further. Any believer convicted Zani in his life time could repent and correct his conduct in further life. Is he then not a believer?
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Not an alternative but to correct the erroneous translation that you had selected. The point was to indicate that we should first grasp what is stated in Ayahs before stretching them to pass on judgmentsa and infer conclusions like this.
The injunction is only about those who are convicted on the strength of prescribed evidence of the crime of having committed Zina. The guilty could be a believing man and non believing woman; or a believing woman and non believing man; or both could be believers. The punishment prescribed is same and future social status is laid down that such convicts can marry only another such convict. Believers are prohibited to marry them.
There could be many believers who indulge secretely in illict intercourse. Thereby they are not Zani as for the society is concerned. Therefore, the injunction should not stretched any further. Any believer convicted Zani in his life time could repent and correct his conduct in further life. Is he then not a believer?
Peace be with you, Mazhar.
I agree with you. The punishment sounds fine to me up to the part where it says that a person guilty of committing zina can only marry a person who is also guilty of the same crime. BUT what makes me really wonder is, as the punishment continues further, it states that the person guilty can also marry a non-believer. Why do you think it is like this? I mean, why do their rights to marry believers get substituted with rights to marry non-believers?
Non-believers are God's enemies, right? So why does a believing man/woman guilty of zina should live his life with an enemy of Allah, i.e. a disbeliever? Please share your thoughts.
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Peace be with you, Mazhar.
I agree with you. The punishment sounds fine to me up to the part where it says that a person guilty of committing zina can only marry a person who is also guilty of the same crime. BUT what makes me really wonder is, as the punishment continues further, it states that the person guilty can also marry a non-believer. Why do you think it is like this? I mean, why do their rights to marry believers get substituted with rights to marry non-believers?
Non-believers are God's enemies, right? So why does a believing man/woman guilty of zina should live his life with an enemy of Allah, i.e. a disbeliever? Please share your thoughts.
Salamun alaika,
"also" in your sentence changes the meanings.
It is a penal clause, and in criminal justice nothing is added or subtracted of the penal law.
The Man held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse shall not henceforth enter into the contract of Nikah matrimonial bondage except with a woman-convict of illicit sexual intercourse or a polytheist woman.
And no one except a convict-man of illicit sexual intercourse or a polytheist shall marry certain woman held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse.
And this marriage entering into Nikah with the man or the woman convicted of illicit sexual intercourse is prohibited for the Believers.AzZani is no more an ordinary person. He is convicted of a sexual crime of ultimate nature in a manner that it was observed by four people who did testify in the court of law. How can he be given liberty to marry any woman of the society? And how he can be deprived of physical need for all his life? He is thereby allowed to marry, if he so wills, ONLY some convict woman of crime of Zina or a Polytheist woman if she consents to him.
Believers are prohibited to marry with such convicted criminals of the crime of Zina.
Convicted Zani by restrictive clause is also not permitted to marry a Christian or Jew woman of the society except someone of them already convicted for the crime of Zina.