WE ARE BORN BELIEVERS IN GOD!
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Salaam hawk99,
Thank you for the link. Your post summarises some of my thoughts on this matter. I also find it strange that some say that monotheism developed. I mean, its just the opposite of polytheism. Monotheism doesn't need to develop, its just the other side of the scale so to speak. Btw, great avatar - fluffy (kinda) and powerful at the same time.
Thank you dear believer for the compliment and your observation
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Peace, hicham9.
The findings were published in two books by the Project Director, Justin L Barrett, in
Cognitive Science, Religion and Theology
http//www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Science-Religion-Theology-Templeton/dp/159947381XBorn Believers The Science of Childhood Religion
http//www.amazon.com/Born-Believers-Science-Childrens-Religious/dp/1439196540For more information, visit Oxford's website or go to the sites of specific researchers to find out more about their specific contributions to the CRT project.
http//www.icea.ox.ac.uk/lab/projects/cognition-religion-and-theology/project-summary/
http//www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110513.htmlHope this helps.
Thanks for the links. I'll be sure to check out the information.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, Man of Faith.
If you say that about Zoroastrianism, then you can say that Satan is a little God of his own. I have studied Zoroastrianism here in Iran and the Zoroastrians are a pretty divided religious people today. You can say they divided into sects or different schools of thinking. Obviously, since their original scripture was lost you can imagine much falsehood entered their religion as has done among the Christians. I have been to one major Zoroastrian site in Yazd to check the story myself.
Indeed, sir, ancient Zoroastrianism was henotheistic. I'm not sure what they teach now in certain places, but I've studied their ancient doctrines, and they believed in the existence of both gods (e.g. Ahura-Mazda and Ahriman), although they only sought to worship one.
Islam also teaches that Satan is a powerful being with weak God-like powers to control, such as mind influence or perhaps possession. It does not say Satan is a god though.
The Quran doesn't teach this at all, brother. The only Islamic cleric, that I'm aware of, who attempted to refer to "satan" as a god was Dr. Rashad Khalifa, who promoted the idea of the devil being a 'temporary god' in his translation of the Quran - which, of course, most Muslims consider completely absurd... According to the Quran, "satan" only has the power to tempt and entice people, which is why he is referred to as 'the whisperer'. He can't control or manipulate anyone.
I understand your point with your reversed perspective, although it is not logical in my mind, but I accept if it your opinion. It is the common opinion of those who think about believers. My example was just what you did to me now, a demonstration of the reverse perspective.
For the record, I wasn't saying that I agree with the reversed perspective; I was merely presenting it to illustrate how someone else, who may not believe in your theology, may interpret your statement. You said that people should 'open their minds and think' about the logical conclusion that a god exists. However, those who DON'T hold this worldview could say the same thing with regard to believers 'opening their minds and thinking' about the possibility of there being no god. From a philosophical perspective, it could go either way.
What is your faith exactly, brother, your religion is not theistic? You believe the universe is eternal and it had its own innate intelligence to evolve its organisms? And the pieces of rock and substances just "happen" to form planets and other physical bodies?
I like to look at my perspective as relaying the idea that the Universe is "divine" (depending on the interpretation of the word). I also think that we shouldn't completely rule out (or rule in) possibilities without evidence to support our conclusions. Sure, it's possible that a divine creator deity exists. However, it's also possible that no such person or entity exists. That's why science is necessary, in my opinion. Rather than believing whatever an 'ancient book' says, I prefer to go with what can be shown and proven, since that's the basis of factual and objective determination.
Were you intrigued by my philosophies on the spirits more in Star Wars style? Or Buddhism and its focus on meditation? Or that I actually am impressed by the religious belief of native Americans?
I'm actually very intrigued by Buddhist philosophy; I've studied it, along with other philosophical worldviews, for many years, and I find it to be very profound... Many Muslims actually claim that the Buddha preached a variation of Islam (which, from that perspective, generally refers to 'peace' with God and nature), and he's considered by some to be a prophet. That issue, however, is still up for debate by many groups.
If you exclude a deity in creation of the world we live in you have more answers to seek. I find it fully rational to include a deity in my realm of thinking about the creation of the world. I was thinking for years about this issue and do not believe I quickly came to this conclusion. It does not mean I know what God is and I am still curious about the origin of it.
To the contrary, I find the concept of using "God" to answer all of the questions we don't have answers to as being boring. Again, I don't rule out the possibility of there being a god who created everything. However, that leaves us with a lot of unanswered questions too, particularly about the (nature of the) creator himself. Who is he? Where did he come from? What did he use to make everything? Why did he choose to do this, and when did it happen, etc.? The list could go on and on. That's why I choose to inquire about everything and try to take the most reasonable (and verifiable) position on things like science and philosophy.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad,
Thanks for your explanation. Then I know what you believe.
Regarding Satan, I interpret Quran as that he can more than only whisper to people but also possess their souls, especially weak souls. I take certain historic madmen like Hitler as a good example.
I also embrace science, but that does not mean I rule out God and my belief. Science can neither prove nor disprove God's existence.
I find the complexity of the world to be a sign of God in itself
I know what you mean when you say the opinion may be the reverse of those who choose not to believe.
I still did not understand if you are a theist or not. Sorry if I am missing something.
God bless
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Peace, Man of Faith.
Regarding Satan, I interpret Quran as that he can more than only whisper to people but also possess their souls, especially weak souls. I take certain historic madmen like Hitler as a good example.
And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "God has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution." (Q. 1422)
I also embrace science, but that does not mean I rule out God and my belief. Science can neither prove nor disprove God's existence.
The problem with this position, of course, is the burden of proof. You can't particularly disprove anyone's existence, including Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Yet, we don't believe in all of them merely because we can't disprove their existence. We need to have rational evidence to support the claim that they do exist. That's the general basis of philosophy...
I find the complexity of the world to be a sign of God in itself
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. I think we should develop ourselves to the degree of seeing God in everything, especially since, if he actually exists, the only way to know him is through his 'creation'.
I still did not understand if you are a theist or not. Sorry if I am missing something.
The word "theist", when compared to the "atheist" concept, isn't distinct enough to formulate a conclusion. People who practice Jainism and Buddhism believe in many figures who'd be considered gods; yet, they don't believe in a creator god, or a benevolent god to whom our salvation depends. Would they be considered theists, or no? Just something to ponder...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Sorry to jump in here with some probably useless words.
There is no such thing as a god that the mind can understand/connect to/realize. Such gods are imaginary creations of the mind. The mind, or the ego, is instead that thing we have within us that PREVENTS us from connecting to/realizing that which perhaps could be called the God... but which the mind won't be able to understand. We may realize/feel/sense this kind of "essence" or "whole", or whatever limiting words we put on this reality, or we don't.... but the mind will definately not get it. You cannot reason out god and the existance of god. When we do, the mind with which we reason, is already lost, and is talking/thinking about something else... some imaginary form. Religions tend to entertain themselves with such images that the mind comes up with... and we know the results. And those that don't believe in god don't produce better results either. The mind is useful for exploring and working on matter and the material world... but is useless when it comes to that which is not the material world. Of course the mind will aggressively refuse and ridicule such a notion. What the mind cannot reason and figure out must quite obviously not exist, right? Well, if your mind has total control over you, then you won't be able to get/understand/realize/sense anything beyond the scope of the mind, which is something very limited. Then the mind says that the things that the mind cannot grasp or figure out, is irrational.... well, yeah, perhaps to the mind... but the whole point is that the mind is not the ultimate criterion for determining what's real and what's not.
But this is a useless and endless debate, between those limited to the mind and those not limited. It is useless since the mind simply cannot grasp what the hell it is that is being said or proposed. The mind is rightly calling it irrational, because it is, from the perspective of the mind. The mind/intellect is like an instrument designed to pick up certain specific signals from the environment... but at the same time, the mind is also arrogant enough to insist that nothing else, except those very signals that it can pick up, exists. The idea of "other signals" is protrayed as ridiculous and irrational. People who can only sense the existance/world through that instrument (the intellect/mind), simply don't realize how limited that is. They think the intellect and mind is ALL we have. They think all else is imagination, understandibly so. And this has nothing to do with religion, or science or such artificial dualities. Religion can be equally "of the mind", but will be even more ridiculous than science... because science deals with what the mind can see and verify. Religion often deals with ideas that are just ideas and imaginations, and emotions. A religion based on the mind is an utterly useless thing. Science will often get you closer to "God" than religion will.
Peace folks O0
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Whateva? Is that all? You spread badly researched propaganda under a false premiss and you don't even apologise and withdraw the article? Just a "whateva"? Yeah, right whatever
I've checked your first reply and it's cristal clear to me that you've got nothing but denial on your side. so, further argument is a waste of time.
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Sorry to jump in here with some probably useless words.
There is no such thing as a god that the mind can understand/connect to/realize. Such gods are imaginary creations of the mind. The mind, or the ego, is instead that thing we have within us that PREVENTS us from connecting to/realizing that which perhaps could be called the God... but which the mind won't be able to understand. We may realize/feel/sense this kind of "essence" or "whole", or whatever limiting words we put on this reality, or we don't.... but the mind will definately not get it. You cannot reason out god and the existance of god. When we do, the mind with which we reason, is already lost, and is talking/thinking about something else... some imaginary form. Religions tend to entertain themselves with such images that the mind comes up with... and we know the results. And those that don't believe in god don't produce better results either. The mind is useful for exploring and working on matter and the material world... but is useless when it comes to that which is not the material world. Of course the mind will aggressively refuse and ridicule such a notion. What the mind cannot reason and figure out must quite obviously not exist, right? Well, if your mind has total control over you, then you won't be able to get/understand/realize/sense anything beyond the scope of the mind, which is something very limited. Then the mind says that the things that the mind cannot grasp or figure out, is irrational.... well, yeah, perhaps to the mind... but the whole point is that the mind is not the ultimate criterion for determining what's real and what's not.
But this is a useless and endless debate, between those limited to the mind and those not limited. It is useless since the mind simply cannot grasp what the hell it is that is being said or proposed. The mind is rightly calling it irrational, because it is, from the perspective of the mind. The mind/intellect is like an instrument designed to pick up certain specific signals from the environment... but at the same time, the mind is also arrogant enough to insist that nothing else, except those very signals that it can pick up, exists. The idea of "other signals" is protrayed as ridiculous and irrational. People who can only sense the existance/world through that instrument (the intellect/mind), simply don't realize how limited that is. They think the intellect and mind is ALL we have. They think all else is imagination, understandibly so. And this has nothing to do with religion, or science or such artificial dualities. Religion can be equally "of the mind", but will be even more ridiculous than science... because science deals with what the mind can see and verify. Religion often deals with ideas that are just ideas and imaginations, and emotions. A religion based on the mind is an utterly useless thing. Science will often get you closer to "God" than religion will.
Peace folks O0
Brilliant summary! Love it.
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http//c00022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/2_255.png
ALLAH - there is no deity except HIM, the Eternal, the Sustainer. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh HIM. Unto HIM belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with HIM except as HE permitteth? HE knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of HIS knowledge except as HE willeth. HIS Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and HE is never weary of preserving them, for HE is the Sublime, the Tremendous.
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I've checked your first reply and it's cristal clear to me that you've got nothing but denial on your side. so, further argument is a waste of time.
Peace hicham9,
You appear to be a quick learner
Even if a Quran caused mountains to move, or the earth to tear asunder,
or the dead to speak (they will not believe). GOD controls all things. Is it not time
for the believers to give up and realize that if GOD willed, He could have guided all
the people? The disbelievers will continue to suffer disasters, as a consequence of
their own works, or have disasters strike close to them, until GOD's promise is
fulfilled. GOD will never change the predetermined destiny.Your god is one god. As for those who do not believe in the Hereafter,
their hearts are denying, and they are arrogant .peace
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Peace zulf,
Your words are not useless, but I had difficulties reading you. I felt as you mean that contact and a personal relationship with God is impossible. But I have to object, I think you can perfectly well establish a connection to God. Of course, if this is what you believe then I respect and accept it, but I still hope I misunderstood your post.
The only hassle is that this connection is individual. It is impossible to prove to another person that this communication is taking place as the other one has nothing to relate to except your words.
The communication, for most part, is through inspiration and not "direct communication". If it was through direct communication God would send a Messenger, for example, an angel.
This is my view of the Truth and may not reflect your philosophies and I apologize if it makes no sense. I simply wanted, without intention to be arrogant, to say my own opinion on God communication. If you have no such relationship to God then I certainly feel blessed and I hope God will make you feel you established a connection to Him.
More related to the topic of this thread; I would like to say that the human brain has a spiritual center which causes us to believe in God. You would know this if you studied some psychology and some additional studies in medicine. Belief in God is nothing strange because it is a perfectly normal function of the brain. Was it not meant for us to believe in God this center of the brain would not exist, to draw a rational conclusion.
Also worth noticing, many atheists, despite denying existence of a deity, believe that paranormal/supernatural activities occur. This belief is due to the same before-mentioned center of the brain. It means there actually is an innate ability in humans to believe in God which is a normal psychological behavior. Of course, this unit in the brain is not simply designed for belief in God but everything which is spiritual. Could be aliens, ghosts or anything supernatural. Most people believe in something which cannot be proven by conventional science. Theists believe in a God, and it is not a mental disorder but a perfectly normal phenomenon.
Of course, this part of brain also causes some religious delusions of grandeur in psychotic patients, such as alleged first hand contact with God and doomsday prophecies. Additionally, it causes other delusions such as abductions by aliens or contact with them. So, if a person, truthfully, claims to actually have contacted God it would be difficult to believe him from a scientific point of view, since normally it would be diagnosed as a mental disorder.
I suppose this is also the part of brain commonly used in descriptions of the so-called sixth sense because of its spiritual function. If sixth sense communication is possible, this would be the center of that kind of activity.
Of course, since this is beyond science, it is currently impossible to prove and can only be a conjecture, same as alleged communication with God. But one cannot deem it abnormal behavior to have faith in a deity. No, it is perfectly normal to believe in God and not a delusion although it is possible to become mentally ill due to imbalances in the signal substances in the brain. This is normally due to external factors and psychic stress problems and not by healthy belief in God.
And yes, I have studied some psychology although I am only an amateur. However I have been relatively neat in my study of it. I wish I had an outright reference to the book from where you can study this yourselves to verify it with your own eyes, but it is not needed to look further than a university level psychology book.
Belief in God and other supernatural beings related to part of the normal brain function is therefore nothing new at all but existing knowledge. Scientists do not use this as a way of proving any existence of a deity, but only to explain how spiritual thoughts are induced by our mind. Involving God in scientific research is not very professional as it is a factor which cannot be proved.
But proving that belief in supernatural phenomena is perfectly normal is possible. In fact, it is nothing strange, and healthy humans even benefit from this belief. It is only a hot topic for prejudiced atheists and enemies of religion who want to turn spirituality into a mental disorder, but then they would have to prove the psychological theories wrong first. Why think a beneficial belief in something which does not harm anyone must be stopped anyway?
It is not "trendy" to believe in God? Belief in God seems like neanderthal behavior?
While it is completely okey to believe in aliens it is strange that belief in God is met with such a strong opposition.
Unless I remember it incorrectly, belief in something can be highly beneficial for the well-being of an individual because it causes him to get a greater meaning with life, no matter if the belief is true or not.
What I wrote in this post is not new but known for several years in psychology. It distances itself from theism and religion because it is not scientific, but the predisposition is there from the start.
Hope my post was any useful. I tried to be as factual as I could, but of course I was mainly relying on my memory of what I studied.
God bless you
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You appear to be a quick learner
Even if a Quran caused mountains to move, or the earth to tear asunder,
or the dead to speak (they will not believe). GOD controls all things. Is it not time
for the believers to give up and realize that if GOD willed, He could have guided all
the people? The disbelievers will continue to suffer disasters, as a consequence of
their own works, or have disasters strike close to them, until GOD's promise is
fulfilled. GOD will never change the predetermined destiny.Your god is one god. As for those who do not believe in the Hereafter,
their hearts are denying, and they are arrogant .Indeed my brother. True are the Words of ALLAH (SWT).
Peace be unto you.....
What I wrote in this post is not new but known for several years in psychology. It distances itself from theism and religion because it is not scientific, but the predisposition is there from the start.
Hope my post was any useful. I tried to be as factual as I could, but of course I was mainly relying on my memory of what I studied.
This was a very interesting post!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and position.
I can agree with you on most of (if not all) the points you mentioned.SLM.
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Peace zulf,
Your words are not useless, but I had difficulties reading you. I felt as you mean that contact and a personal relationship with God is impossible. But I have to object, I think you can perfectly well establish a connection to God. Of course, if this is what you believe then I respect and accept it, but I still hope I misunderstood your post.
The only hassle is that this connection is individual. It is impossible to prove to another person that this communication is taking place as the other one has nothing to relate to except your words.
The communication, for most part, is through inspiration and not "direct communication". If it was through direct communication God would send a Messenger, for example, an angel.
This is my view of the Truth and may not reflect your philosophies and I apologize if it makes no sense. I simply wanted, without intention to be arrogant, to say my own opinion on God communication. If you have no such relationship to God then I certainly feel blessed and I hope God will make you feel you established a connection to Him.
God bless you
Peace Man of Faith,
Some great points, the connection with God will always be personal and intimately related to our own experiences, situation and challenges we face as an individual. Therefore, as you said, the inspiration we receive becomes something very meaningful to us, but perhaps not so meaningful to others unless they are specifically searching for individual experiences and guidance by God. I guess the only way for someone to understand this, is for them to call upon Allah swt and then try to answer His call as it says in the Qur'an. In relation to other points mentioned on this thread, I also believe that anything can bring us closer to and help understand our relationship with God, whether through religion, science, natural phenomena, life experiences, if our intent is to become closer to God and to understand whatever it is that we need to. God knows best how much knowledge we need of Him and how our relationship with Him should unfold.
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Peace zulf,
This More related to the topic of this thread; I would like to say that the human brain has a spiritual center which causes us to believe in God. You would know this if you studied some psychology and some additional studies in medicine. Belief in God is nothing strange because it is a perfectly normal function of the brain. Was it not meant for us to believe in God this center of the brain would not exist, to draw a rational conclusion.
Also worth noticing, many atheists, despite denying existence of a deity, believe that paranormal/supernatural activities occur. This belief is due to the same before-mentioned center of the brain. It means there actually is an innate ability in humans to believe in God which is a normal psychological behavior. Of course, this unit in the brain is not simply designed for belief in God but everything which is spiritual. Could be aliens, ghosts or anything supernatural. Most people believe in something which cannot be proven by conventional science. Theists believe in a God, and it is not a mental disorder but a perfectly normal phenomenon.
Of course, this part of brain also causes some religious delusions of grandeur in psychotic patients, such as alleged first hand contact with God and doomsday prophecies. Additionally, it causes other delusions such as abductions by aliens or contact with them. So, if a person, truthfully, claims to actually have contacted God it would be difficult to believe him from a scientific point of view, since normally it would be diagnosed as a mental disorder.
Belief in God and other supernatural beings related to part of the normal brain function is therefore nothing new at all but existing knowledge. Scientists do not use this as a way of proving any existence of a deity, but only to explain how spiritual thoughts are induced by our mind. Involving God in scientific research is not very professional as it is a factor which cannot be proved.
But proving that belief in supernatural phenomena is perfectly normal is possible. In fact, it is nothing strange, and healthy humans even benefit from this belief. It is only a hot topic for prejudiced atheists and enemies of religion who want to turn spirituality into a mental disorder, but then they would have to prove the psychological theories wrong first. Why think a beneficial belief in something which does not harm anyone must be stopped anyway?
While it is completely okey to believe in aliens it is strange that belief in God is met with such a strong opposition.
Unless I remember it incorrectly, belief in something can be highly beneficial for the well-being of an individual because it causes him to get a greater meaning with life, no matter if the belief is true or not.
What I wrote in this post is not new but known for several years in psychology. It distances itself from theism and religion because it is not scientific, but the predisposition is there from the start.God bless you
Peace Family,
We Are Born With Instinctive Knowledge About God, that is why this subject has
been around forever all over the world.Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them
bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness.
" Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604797.msg316451#msg316451
peace
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Peace zulf,
Your words are not useless, but I had difficulties reading you. I felt as you mean that contact and a personal relationship with God is impossible. But I have to object, I think you can perfectly well establish a connection to God. Of course, if this is what you believe then I respect and accept it, but I still hope I misunderstood your post.
I know I'm not always very clear in my words... actually I find it challenging to express myself properly, to convey in suitable words what I desire to put across. Some peope are very good at expressing themselves in writing... I wish I was too...
I'm aware that my post can be interpreted in different ways, depending on the reader... we see what we can see, which is totally normal and natural. I realise that my words can seem to be against faith in God, against religion... and on one level they are, but on another level I'm actually trying to point out OUR inability to relate to God... so I'm really not discussing God.
Let me respond on some of your post below, and I shall see if I can elaborate further on my point of view.
The communication, for most part, is through inspiration and not "direct communication". If it was through direct communication God would send a Messenger, for example, an angel.
I wonder what "direct communication" really means. How is it different from inspiration?
This is my view of the Truth and may not reflect your philosophies and I apologize if it makes no sense. I simply wanted, without intention to be arrogant, to say my own opinion on God communication. If you have no such relationship to God then I certainly feel blessed and I hope God will make you feel you established a connection to Him.
Thank you for sharing, and God bless you!
More related to the topic of this thread; I would like to say that the human brain has a spiritual center which causes us to believe in God. You would know this if you studied some psychology and some additional studies in medicine. Belief in God is nothing strange because it is a perfectly normal function of the brain. Was it not meant for us to believe in God this center of the brain would not exist, to draw a rational conclusion.
Perhaps there is such a center. I would go further to say, without proof of course, that our entire body is connected to God, not just one center in the brain, although such a center might perhaps have some special function which makes us think it is more strongly related to belief in God. I think our entire body is constantly aware of God, but we resist and rebel with our ego, our mind, and disease is the result, and a sign that we are doing something that is bad for us.
Also worth noticing, many atheists, despite denying existence of a deity, believe that paranormal/supernatural activities occur. This belief is due to the same before-mentioned center of the brain. It means there actually is an innate ability in humans to believe in God which is a normal psychological behavior. Of course, this unit in the brain is not simply designed for belief in God but everything which is spiritual. Could be aliens, ghosts or anything supernatural. Most people believe in something which cannot be proven by conventional science. Theists believe in a God, and it is not a mental disorder but a perfectly normal phenomenon.
I think that a clear and intuitive connection/awareness to that which we call God is the original and natural condition, which has been cut by our trust in our mind, which we follow instead of following God through peaceful intuition. Our mind is the shaitan which leads us astray, away from God... our mind is clouding our vision, leading us into darkness, blind.
Belief in God and other supernatural beings related to part of the normal brain function is therefore nothing new at all but existing knowledge. Scientists do not use this as a way of proving any existence of a deity, but only to explain how spiritual thoughts are induced by our mind. Involving God in scientific research is not very professional as it is a factor which cannot be proved.
Science is the use of the mind. We are not supposed to use the mind to figure out God. This is where everything goes wrong. We can approach God and connect to the infinite wisdom, but not through the mind.
While it is completely okey to believe in aliens it is strange that belief in God is met with such a strong opposition.
I think this partly due to the controlling role that religion has had. Belief in God is confused with relgion. Also, many people who claim to believe in God, and look down on atheists for not believing in God, are at the same time unable to believe in other unseen things, simply since they have no experience of it. Ask a religious person if he or she believes in the "small people" or similar (human-like creatures that are invisible except to a rare few human beings), or ask them about things like reiki and the aura, something which many people have experienced first hand.
But I do believe we can connect to God, or rather open up our vision to God. I don't like the word connect, since it implies a separation. The only separation there is isin our awareness and perception. God is not something "else", something "other" or "out there". In reality there is no separation, but we are blind, so there is a virtual separation. To me, discussing the existence of God is the same as discussing the existence of ourselves. If God doesn't exist, then we don't exist, and if we exist then God exists, by definition. The problem is always our mental images of God... not God itself. We reject the idea of God because it is an idea that the mind has come up with, and since the mind cannot "see" or "connect" to the real God, then the whole idea is stupid to the mind... but just to the mind. We are more than our mind!! Our mind creates an image of a separate God. By definition this is cannot be God. We should not associate anything with God for this very reason... that we'll end up with a mocking and stupid image that we call God but which is nothing like God.
God, for the lack of a better word, is real because we exist. We can indeed "connect" to God and the unseen world and receive very normal and natural guidance... but NOT with our mind. Our mind BLOCKS such guidance. Being "connected" to God's unseen domain is the most natural thing for us, but we have chosen to follow our idol, The Mind, our personal shaytan. The result is clear and obvious... just look at the state of the world. We gain more and more knowledge and information, we become more and more intelligent, yet things are not improving... rather we destroy the planet and our bodies more and more. Obviously, the Mind/Intellect, which we are so proud of, cannot help us. We have taken the mind/intellect as our god, and consequently we go deeper and deeper into blindness, destruction and ignorance.
We should not be afraid of some hooved, red-skinned, arrow-tailed, horned creature... the devil. He's a cartoon for crying out loud! This is why I find religions USELESS. Humanists can be as good as religious people. Just because people say they believe in God doesn't make them better for the world, for others or for themselves. I find religion often to be as materialistic and ego/mind-centered as any other movement or philosophy. If we are slaves to the mind... and consequently blind to God ad God's system, then it doesn't matter if we claim to be religious or atheist or whatever. Lables are just labels. The tyrannical, seductive, addictive, stealthy and perilous reign of the mind/intellect/ego over us, at the expense of our natural INTUITIVE "connection" to God, is what we should work on to shed and free ourselves of. We need to let go of this unconscious imprisonment and stop resisting God's natural, universal system.
Peace Family,
We Are Born With Instinctive Knowledge About God, that is why this subject has
been around forever all over the world.Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them
bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness.
" Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."Indeed. And the part of us which doesn't remember, and which resists/denies God, is our Ego/Intellect/Mind. Quite simple actually.
Ok man, I gotta sleep now...
In any case, God bless! and peace!
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Peace Family,
We Are Born With Instinctive Knowledge About God, that is why this subject has
been around forever all over the world.Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them
bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness.
" Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604797.msg316451#msg316451
peace
Peace Hawk99,
An important reminder, thank you!
We should not be afraid of some hooved, red-skinned, arrow-tailed, horned creature... the devil. He's a cartoon for crying out loud! This is why I find religions USELESS. Humanists can be as good as religious people. Just because people say they believe in God doesn't make them better for the world, for others or for themselves. I find religion often to be as materialistic and ego/mind-centered as any other movement or philosophy. If we are slaves to the mind... and consequently blind to God ad God's system, then it doesn't matter if we claim to be religious or atheist or whatever. Lables are just labels. The tyrannical, seductive, addictive, stealthy and perilous reign of the mind/intellect/ego over us, at the expense of our natural INTUITIVE "connection" to God, is what we should work on to shed and free ourselves of. We need to let go of this unconscious imprisonment and stop resisting God's natural, universal system.
Indeed. And the part of us which doesn't remember, and which resists/denies God, is our Ego/Intellect/Mind. Quite simple actually.
Ok man, I gotta sleep now...
In any case, God bless! and peace!
Peace Zulf,
I feel that if people can understand anything from conventional religion as it is commonly understood, it's that they learn how not to be or how not to establish a relationship with God with too much rigidity etc. Like that quote that I can't quite recall right now about being able to learn something from everyone or everything you come across. Labels are definitely limiting. They identify ourselves to others but we don't need them to identify ourselves to God! I think they are there for convenience, but some people do put too much by them. There could be some Quran alone Muslims who could be fundamentalist then some Atheists or simply Theists who are much closer to the idea of what a righteous person is in the Quran.
I agree, I think we are always connected with God. It is just our own awareness that needs to connect back with this reality. Maybe that's why the Quran mentions remembering God so much, to help us keep this type of awareness as it only benefits us.
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But this is a useless and endless debate, between those limited to the mind and those not limited. It is useless since the mind simply cannot grasp what the hell it is that is being said or proposed. The mind is rightly calling it irrational, because it is, from the perspective of the mind. The mind/intellect is like an instrument designed to pick up certain specific signals from the environment... but at the same time, the mind is also arrogant enough to insist that nothing else, except those very signals that it can pick up, exists.
Peace.
Good point. The something that the mind cannot pick up as signal, or as empirical evidence; does it exist or not? The mind can reach to that level of thought. The mind can only Question. I have questioned this before. What if the something that cannot be grasped by the mind and senses do exist as non-existence entity to our state of mind and senses now.
The mind can also come to an understanding that the non-existence entity can be REAL. More real than our own existence. Our existence can be vanished. At least when we die.
The only prove i have that God exists after so much thinking, is when I discovered the miracle of the Quran, that Book can only be written by the Creator. It answers all the questions i have asked before about anything and everything that i want to know, from why we are here to why we can't see God.