Good article that destoys the "19" myth
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I would be very weary of posting anything sites like answering-islam have to say. Their whole basis is to undermine Islam.
Yes, I agree. however this article does contain some good & valid points.
As an example, does the following also prove that the bible is preserved, simply because of the number 7?
The statement by Dr. Khalifa that there is no other book extant with any similar numerical system, is untrue. The Bible is one such book. Let us select only one number and one verse to illustrate what we mean.
We shall investigate the presence of the number seven - a number used very often with the symbolic meaning of divine completeness - in the first verse of the Bible."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
The verse consists of 7 Hebrew words and 28 letters (7 x 4). There are three nouns ?God, heavens, earth.? Their total numeric value (Hebrew has no numbers but these are represented by letters the sum of the number letters being the numeric value) is 777 (7 x 111). The verb 'created' has the value 203 (7 x 29). The object is contained in the first three words - with 14 letters (7 x 2) The other four words contain the subject - also with 14 letters (7 x 2). The Hebrew words for the two objects - "the heavens and the earth" - each have seven letters.The fourth and fifth words have 7 letters. The value of the first, middle and last letters in the verb 'created' is 133 (7 x 19) the numeric value of the first and last letters of all the words is 1393 (7 x 199) and the value of the first and last letters of the verse is 497 (7 x 71). The Hebrew particle 'eth' with the article 'the', used twice, has the value 407 (7 x 5 and the last letters of the first and last words equal 490 (7 x 70).
In all, there are over 30 different numeric features related to 7 in this verse. The odds against the above features occurring by chance are 33 Trillions1.
But the number seven is also interwoven throughout the Bible. Creation took 7 days; Naaman had to wash 7 times in the Jordan to be cleansed from leprosy; the Israelites had to march around Jericho 7 days and 7 times on the 7th day; they had to set aside one day in 7 for rest and worship. There was a 7-armed lampstand in the temple, etc. In the last book, Revelation, we find mentioned 7 spirits, 7 lampstands, 7 churches, 7 stars, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 vials, 7 thunders, 7 plagues, 7 mountains and 7 kings. The tribulation period is to be 7 years being the last "week of years" of Daniel's 70 weeks (Dan 924 ff).
Beyond this we know that the incubation period of the human embryo is 280 days (7 x 40). In Genesis we are told that man was formed from the dust of the ground. The "dust of the ground" contains 14 (7 x 2) elements, and so does the human body. Every cell in the human body is renewed every 7 years and every 7th day the pulse beats slower. In certain diseases the critical days are the 7th, 14th, 21st, etc. and the female cycle is 28 (7 x 4) days. Light is made up of 7 colours, the moon completes its orbit around the earth in 28 days (7 x 4) and the earth is 49 (7 x 7) times larger than the moon. (This information is taken from "The Seal of God" by F.C. Payne. The actual numerics were compiled by Ivan Panin).
This information was available for many years, long before the advent of computers. It never persuaded a single Muslim, to our knowledge, to accept the challenge of receiving the Bible as the Word of God - although the evidence is more convincing than the findings of Dr. Khalifa. Why?
Despite the superiority of this presentation over the one figured out by Dr. Khalifa, we can and would not suggest that anyone accept numerics alone as a basis for faith in the Bible. It is at best a crutch.
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See http//answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/number19.html
I've read it and wanted to share it with you. I found it very interesting.
I already found the whole story of the number 19 very fishy as there is no consistent method, but I now completely reject this nonsense.
Please read the article and study this "19" myth before placing long emotional posts and other crap.
Peace all,
I don't actually follow this Code 19 argument, I haven't looked into tbh as I have other topics with the Quran that keep me busy and help for affirmation of faith.
However, was that bit (I put in red colour) really necessary? Religion and politics are always topics that have to be treated in a mature way, some emotional responses may happen but they can be dealt with by God given common sense and tact. As long as the individual is, at the very least, a decent human being, that's what matters. If they are disrespectful, discussion becomes a hostile literal argument and debate that is a battle of wills and egos. A soul crushing activity in the end.
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Peace,
It was a funny choice of number in regard of number 7 and the Bible since it is God's number for that book. The Quran shows signs of this number in it too, ie the first chapter of Quran is 7 verses and many other hints.
The try to unveil a code as bogus by kindly presenting the mathematical pattern of another book. Very kind in my opinion. Shows God means it when he says "they plot and scheme but God is the best schemer of them all". Even if they try to throw dirt on something they do instead help the Truth!
I wish I had the Bible in its original language now.
God bless you for unintentionally posting the Truth while fighting God
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Peace,
It was a funny choice of number in regard of number 7 and the Bible since it is God's number for that book. The Quran shows signs of this number in it too, ie the first chapter of Quran is 7 verses and many other hints.
The try to unveil a code as bogus by kindly presenting the mathematical pattern of another book. Very kind in my opinion. Shows God means it when he says "they plot and scheme but God is the best schemer of them all". Even if they try to throw dirt on something they do instead help the Truth!
I wish I had the Bible in its original language now.
God bless you for unintentionally posting the Truth while fighting God
"It was a funny choice of number in regard of number 7 and the Bible since it is God's number for that book. The Quran shows signs of this number in it too, ie the first chapter of Quran is 7 verses and many other hints."
Such things are ALL nonsense . . . . you can take ANY NUMBER - and find such patterns and claim whatever.
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Peace,
So you find it a coincidence that God refers to many things by number 7?
7 verses, 7 pairs, 7 sleepers, 7 seas, 7 days, and the list goes on. It is a pretty common number for God to use to refer to His marvels. I wonder myself sometimes why it is like this. Number 7 seems to symbolize something. Do you deny this?
Your logic is different from mine then. Is my logic flawed?
God bless you despite your arrogance
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Peace,
So you find it a coincidence that God refers to many things by number 7?
7 verses, 7 pairs, 7 sleepers, 7 seas, 7 days, and the list goes on. It is a pretty common number for God to use to refer to His marvels. I wonder myself sometimes why it is like this. Number 7 seems to symbolize something. Do you deny this?
Your logic is different from mine then. Is my logic flawed?
God bless you despite your arrogance
Did you read what I said? I will repeat . . . you can take any number 2-9 and come up with such "miracles". They do not really mean anything.
Take seven verses . . . it is just number of verses in Surah Fatiha. That is all . . . next chapter has more . . . why would that be significant?
7 pairs of what?
7 seas? There are more than 7 seas!
7 days? So what? There are 30 in a month, 365 in a year . . . etc.
"Number 7 seems to symbolize something. Do you deny this?
"Obviously - I thought was clear from the reply above.
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Peace pixelrow,
It is true, but those numbers would mean nothing because you do not contextualize them to something relevant.
I still say to you that number seven is special. You can have it the way you like but it does not matter to me.
There are 14 initials in the Quran which I see connected to the seven pairs stated in Quran.
Anyway, a handful of people see no relevancy in the occurrences in the Book, but it does not matter out of the religious perspective since it is not truly relevant anyway for salvation.
But some people put so much energy in trying to falsify this finding and for what purpose? It is not like it matters anyway. The religious assessment is not based around some mathematical phenomenon but is based around you as an individual, which you seem to have forgotten completely.
God speed
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You made a promise NOT to "talk" to me! . . .but never mind!
"It is true, but those numbers would mean nothing because you do not contextualize them to something relevant."
Ah . . . see it is YOUR argument. . .hence - it is YOU who has not done what you claim!
"I still say to you that number seven is special. You can have it the way you like but it does not matter to me."
Sure . . this is how dogma works.
"Anyway, a handful of people see no relevancy in the occurrences in the Book, but it does not matter out of the religious perspective since it is not truly relevant anyway for salvation."
There we have it . . . you admit it is not relevant! It is what I said from the start . . .!!!!
You say "handful" - implying many do . . . I don't think that is the case - else - EVIDENCE?
"But some people put so much energy in trying to falsify this finding and for what purpose? It is not like it matters anyway. "
If it does not matter . . . why state it in the 1st place? You see the 2 are different things . . . random occurrences are NOT relevant at all. But those who try to make it relevant lead others to danger - hence effort has to be put in to counter this.
For example . . . Astrology is meaningless - yet this meaningless can be very dangerous when some make this meaninglessness relevant and start to dictate it to other people . . .
"The religious assessment is not based around some mathematical phenomenon but is based around you as an individual, which you seem to have forgotten completely."
I have no idea what this line means.
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Peace pixelrow,
Handful of people who do not believe in any mathematical "code" in Quran is what I meant. A few of my best contacts on this forum do not believe in the "code". It does not matter to me, they are good muslims anyway.
My remark was an attempt to ease up the situation. Of course I would not claim the code had any relevance in salvation, but it is also my claim when it comes to hadith.
This is why I sense you are self-gratifying and the other things I have said before which I do not intend to repeat anymore now. You know this is how I regard you by now.
Last paragraph meant that God will not use belief in a mathematical phenomenon to assess your worthiness to enter wherever you go on the Judgment Day, but your behavior and actions will be assessed.
God bless you
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Peace pixelrow,
Handful of people who do not believe in any mathematical "code" in Quran is what I meant. A few of my best contacts on this forum do not believe in the "code". It does not matter to me, they are good muslims anyway.
My remark was an attempt to ease up the situation. Of course I would not claim the code had any relevance in salvation, but it is also my claim when it comes to hadith.
This is why I sense you are self-gratifying and the other things I have said before which I do not intend to repeat anymore now. You know this is how I regard you by now.
Last paragraph meant that God will not use belief in a mathematical phenomenon to assess your worthiness to enter wherever you go on the Judgment Day, but your behavior and actions will be assessed.
God bless you
Strangely - you said quite a while - you will NOT reply to me again . . . but since then you have left many replies.
Then you admitted you were in the wrong by apologising for being personal.
I cannot help it - if you have acquired such fascination towards me - that you cannot let go.
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Interesting article.
Man of Faith, I know what you mean with the number 7. When I was in Catholic school they would say that is God's lucky number rotfl God needs luck?? Anyway, I don't put weight into it but it is interesting. I find the Golden Ratio aka Divine Proportion very interesting as well. I see it as signs in God's creation, something to just chew on. I had to do a report on the Golden Ratio and fascinated it me for weeks! At the end of it, it made me reflect on how this world could not be without a creator. Now Muslim when I read in Qur'an to take note of the signs within nature, it makes me smile.
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Peace Indelwyn,
Well, I am not a fanatic believer in the mathematical number patterns, but I do believe in it though. It is mysterious to me and strange. I have checked sura 1 of Quran and the number of letters in it per verse is as follows
- 19
- 17
- 12
- 12
- 19
- 19
- 44 (note - until the verse speaks about those who are astray or provoked God's anger it is 19 letters)
I am sure there is some kind of complex mathematical system in Quran, but it is not only limited to 19, it is more vast than that.
God seems to have number combinations for all sorts of things.
Anyway, I do spend some hour from time to time thinking about this system, but it is not what I base my Faith on. I see it merely as a Faith-booster, ie another sign that God is really real.
And I do not believe that Dr. Khalifa was a Messenger of God. And I do not follow his teachings nor his counts of 19 in Quran. I reproduce all testing on my own here at home if I do something.
In the end, I spend only a tiny per cent of my time on the mathematical pattern. Reading Quran and the Bible is what I do most of the time.
God bless you
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Peace Indelwyn,
Well, I am not a fanatic believer in the mathematical number patterns, but I do believe in it though. It is mysterious to me and strange. I have checked sura 1 of Quran and the number of letters in it per verse is as follows
- 19
- 17
- 12
- 12
- 19
- 19
- 44 (note - until the verse speaks about those who are astray or provoked God's anger it is 19 letters)
I am sure there is some kind of complex mathematical system in Quran, but it is not only limited to 19, it is more vast than that.
God seems to have number combinations for all sorts of things.
Anyway, I do spend some hour from time to time thinking about this system, but it is not what I base my Faith on. I see it merely as a Faith-booster, ie another sign that God is really real.
And I do not believe that Dr. Khalifa was a Messenger of God. And I do not follow his teachings nor his counts of 19 in Quran. I reproduce all testing on my own here at home if I do something.
In the end, I spend only a tiny per cent of my time on the mathematical pattern. Reading Quran and the Bible is what I do most of the time.
God bless you
I could not agree more!
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Peace Indelwyn,
Well, I am not a fanatic believer in the mathematical number patterns, but I do believe in it though. It is mysterious to me and strange. I have checked sura 1 of Quran and the number of letters in it per verse is as follows
- 19
- 17
- 12
- 12
- 19
- 19
- 44 (note - until the verse speaks about those who are astray or provoked God's anger it is 19 letters)
I am sure there is some kind of complex mathematical system in Quran, but it is not only limited to 19, it is more vast than that.
God seems to have number combinations for all sorts of things.
Anyway, I do spend some hour from time to time thinking about this system, but it is not what I base my Faith on. I see it merely as a Faith-booster, ie another sign that God is really real.
And I do not believe that Dr. Khalifa was a Messenger of God. And I do not follow his teachings nor his counts of 19 in Quran. I reproduce all testing on my own here at home if I do something.
In the end, I spend only a tiny per cent of my time on the mathematical pattern. Reading Quran and the Bible is what I do most of the time.
God bless you
Those are NOTHING more than random numbers . . . you can take any book and claim this.
Hence it is BS.
Just point to few random numbers - and then say . . . I am sure there is a complex system here.
I have NOT come upon such ignorance.
Else what is the system? Do explain . . .
And evidence that Quran alludes to this?
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Peace pixelrow,
Get lost.
God bless you
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Wrong - "Welcome to my ignore list" is my next reply.
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pixelrow,
Wrong - You are now on my ignore list.
Welcome to my ignore list