Role of Muhammed
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Hello
Just want to hear if anyone can help me interprate sura 2108 Or do you want to ask your messenger as Moses was asked before? Whoever replaces belief with rejection, he has indeed strayed from the right path.I read it as it is not good to ask Muhammed for advice. But it could also been read the other way around.
How do you see it?Peace
Niels Jacob -
2107
Do you not know that to ALLAH belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth,
and you have not besides ALLAH any protector or helper?2108
Or do you intend to question your Messenger as Moses was questioned before?
And whoever exchanges belief for disbelief has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.2109
Many of the People of the Book wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until ALLAH delivers His command. Indeed, ALLAH is over all things competent.
Asking advice from the Prophet is OK, but questioning his Message/Prophethood and asking for Miracles every now and then is not. According to the Qur'an, only a few of the People of the Book were true believers, the rest were but hypocrites and disbelievers. See the 3 verses below, they are definitely related to the verse 108 in question.
4153
The People of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book from the heaven. But they had asked of Moses greater than that and said, "Show us ALLAH outright," so the thunderbolt struck them for their wrongdoing. Then they took the calf after clear evidences had come to them, and We pardoned that. And We gave Moses a clear authority.4154
And We raised over them the mount for their covenant; and We said to them, "Enter the gate bowing humbly", and We said to them, "Do not transgress on the sabbath", and We took from them a solemn covenant.4155
And for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of ALLAH and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, ALLAH has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.
Peace be unto you.
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I dont see any mention of Muhammad in that verse. Neither do I see any reason for why I have to believe that this verse talks about Muhammad. If God wanted to say muhammad he would do so, but he used the word messenger instead. First we have to understand what Messenger means and then the verse would be clear.
Peace
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I dont see any mention of Muhammad in that verse. Neither do I see any reason for why I have to believe that this verse talks about Muhammad. If God wanted to say muhammad he would do so, but he used the word messenger instead.
Nice observation bravo
Additional things to ponder
- Allah is being mentioned as 'third person', thus for sure it's not God who said the sentence recorded/written in the version. Otherwise it would be written as "Do you not know that to ME belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth"
- Why 'the speaker' makes a direct reference to Moses? ("as Moses was questioned before"
Most definitely because the audience is very familiar with Moses story.
Thus most probably the audience are Israelites..
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Nice observation bravo
Additional things to ponder
- Allah is being mentioned as 'third person', thus for sure it's not God who said the sentence recorded/written in the version. Otherwise it would be written as "Do you not know that to ME belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth"
- Why 'the speaker' makes a direct reference to Moses? ("as Moses was questioned before"
Most definitely because the audience is very familiar with Moses story.
Thus most probably the audience are Israelites..
Yes I do agree with you
The verse is easy to understand all what is required is to forget the Sunni interpretation.
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Peace Jacob
The role of Muhammad is only to deliver the message not as a legislative who create Islamic laws, because Allah only who have autharity to did it.
Look in this verse
320 If they debate with you, then say ?I have submitted myself to God, as well as those who follow me.? And say to those who have received the Book and the Gentiles ?Have you submitted?? If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away,
then you are only to deliver, and God is Seer over the servants.592 And obey God and obey the messenger, and be aware. If you turn away then know that it is the duty of Our messenger to deliver
clearly.599 The messenger is only to deliver. And God knows what you reveal and what you conceal.
See.The only duty of the messenger is just to delivering the Allah's message (Quran) and not for create some fiqh and Islamic laws.
Meanwhile the hadith is against the principles of that verse, hadith made as if Nabi Muhammad create own laws and innovations outside the Quran like hukm rajm, picture forbids, grave torture which never founded in Kalamullah of Quran.
Hadith is just defaming our beloved Prophet.
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2107
Do you not know that to ALLAH belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth,
and you have not besides ALLAH any protector or helper?2108
Or do you intend to question your Messenger as Moses was questioned before?
And whoever exchanges belief for disbelief has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.2109
Many of the People of the Book wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until ALLAH delivers His command. Indeed, ALLAH is over all things competent.
Asking advice from the Prophet is OK, but questioning his Message/Prophethood and asking for Miracles every now and then is not. According to the Qur'an, only a few of the People of the Book were true believers, the rest were but hypocrites and disbelievers. See the 3 verses below, they are definitely related to the verse 108 in question.
4153
The People of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book from the heaven. But they had asked of Moses greater than that and said, "Show us ALLAH outright," so the thunderbolt struck them for their wrongdoing. Then they took the calf after clear evidences had come to them, and We pardoned that. And We gave Moses a clear authority.4154
And We raised over them the mount for their covenant; and We said to them, "Enter the gate bowing humbly", and We said to them, "Do not transgress on the sabbath", and We took from them a solemn covenant.4155
And for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of ALLAH and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, ALLAH has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.
Peace be unto you.
I agree. The verse came concerning a comparison with Moses and the Israelites.
http//www.biblestorytelling.org/adults/12%20Israelites-Complaining%20and%20Rebelling.pdf
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Peace,
It may also be referring specifically to the incident with the calf where some of the Israelites keep asking Moses question after question about the calf, looking for the most minute and what might actually be unimportant details - and it says they barely believed once they fulfilled the command. What they did is a bit like when those who follow hadith may ask so how do you do each particular part of salat? etc
And thank you Hicham9 for outlining those verses for us.
I would also say that if its referring to any Messenger, especially those after Moses, then yes, I would say it can refer to Muhammad, NielsJacob but I think its referring to a type of behaviour that doesn't respect a Messenger, so I believe advice would be ok.
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Peace,
I think all prophets had their share of importance and that we should not distinguish between any of them. We should not diminish the importance of Muhammad in our pursuit in invalidating the practices of traditional "Islam".
Moses received the Law, the popular Ten commandments, on stone tablets, but I would not make him the most important prophet due to that.
Then why not consider Muhammad the most important with your logic, since he delivered a far more detailed scripture containing God's exact wordings. Nay, you should not distinguish between any of them, they all had their place in history.
Praise God for everything they came with, the Messengers would take no honor for they were righteous folks. If you came to Heaven and went up to, for example, Muhammad and said "Thank you", the man would reply "Do not thank me, thank the one who sent me". Of course, most of those who would do so will never even get the chance since the prophet would look the other way.
God bless you
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Hello
Just want to hear if anyone can help me interprate sura 2108 Or do you want to ask your messenger as Moses was asked before? Whoever replaces belief with rejection, he has indeed strayed from the right path.I read it as it is not good to ask Muhammed for advice. But it could also been read the other way around.
How do you see it?Peace
Niels Jacobmy opinion
muhammad had only to transmit the message.
muhammad did'nt understood all quran and can't explain it . Verse 37 is clear, only God understand all quran.asking muhammad for explainations is taking other teacher/rabb than God. We have to study god sayings and not muhammad sayings.
Asking for teaching from a rassool is a kind of rejection of words of Allah. Messengers are simply humans with a message from God.asking a rassool is like asking a postman for meaning of the letters he gives you.
on other hand, it is interesting to compare hadith to talmud when reading 2-108Now let suppose that muhammad is still alive and is an admin of website forum.
would you leave quran and follow what he is wrinting on his website ?7219 And when the servant of God stood up to call on Him, they just make round him a dense crowd.
7220 Say ?I only call on my Lord, and I do not set up anyone with Him.?
7221 Say ?I have no power to harm you nor to show you what is right.?Peace
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Peace,
I think all prophets had their share of importance and that we should not distinguish between any of them. We should not diminish the importance of Muhammad in our pursuit in invalidating the practices of traditional "Islam".
Moses received the Law, the popular Ten commandments, on stone tablets, but I would not make him the most important prophet due to that.
Then why not consider Muhammad the most important with your logic, since he delivered a far more detailed scripture containing God's exact wordings. Nay, you should not distinguish between any of them, they all had their place in history.
Praise God for everything they came with, the Messengers would take no honor for they were righteous folks. If you came to Heaven and went up to, for example, Muhammad and said "Thank you", the man would reply "Do not thank me, thank the one who sent me". Of course, most of those who would do so will never even get the chance since the prophet would look the other way.
God bless you
Excellent point. I like the part you said that some Quranist end up trying to downplay Muhammad in their attempt to invalidate hadiths or perhaps some of those hadiths affected their perception of him.The Quran reminds us also when it said
?O you who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His Apostle, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing. O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak loud to him as you speak loud to one another, lest your deeds became null while you do not perceive. Surely those who lower their voices before Allah?s Apostle are they whose hearts Allah has tested for guarding (against evil); they shall have forgiveness and a great reward. (491-3)?