What is God's role with Born Disabled?

savage_carrot

Very thoughtful post Zone. I'd ask you to clarify the last bit helping others to be guided with our prayers and dua? Is it a public prayer in a way as opposed to private? Or are you perhaps referencing a connection between everything, us inclusive, would somehow guide as on a deeper level there is no individual demarcation as such?

peace

wrkmmn

Peace drfazl

My current understanding is that the Qur'an is talking about intercession on judgement day by prophets (God knows best), and if people goes to you believing that your prayers can can help them with God, then they are associating (shirk). I think is good that you help people to increase their consciousness of God, so that they learn to seek only God for help, and accept whatever result they get humbly saying "your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven." or "To God We belong, and to Him is our return."
103VERILY, your Sustainer is God, who has created the heavens and the earth in six aeons, and is established on the throne of His almightiness,6 governing all that exists. There is none that could intercede with Him unless He grants leave therefor.7 Thus is God, your Sustainer worship, therefore, Him will you not, then, keep this inmind?
I think God is talking here about prophets, but if you were given leave by the all mighty, then is god that you fulfill your duty.

Next are some excerpts from Mohammad Assad commentary on the Qur'an about intersession.

about 1037 Lit., "there is no intercessor whatever, save after His leave ". Cf. 2255 -"Who is there that could intercede with Him, unless it be by His leave?" Thus, the Qur'an rejects the popular belief in unqualified "intercession" by living or dead saints or prophets. As is shown elsewhere in the Qur'an (e.g., in 20109, 2128 or 3423), God will grant to His prophets on Judgment Day the permission to "intercede", symbolically, for such of the sinners as will have already achieved His redemptive acceptance (rida&#039 by virtue of their repentance or basic goodness (see 1987 and the corresponding note 74) in other words, the right of "intercession" thus granted to the prophets will be but an expression of God's approval of the latter. Furthermore, the above denial of the possibility of unqualified intercession stresses, indirectly, not only God's omniscience which requires no "mediator" - but also the immutability of His will and thus it connects with the preceding mention of His almightiness.
about 1018 Thus, belief in the efficacy of anyone's unqualified intercession with God, or mediation between man and Him, is here equated with a denial of God's omniscience, which takes all the circumstances of the sinner and his sinning a priori into consideration. (As regards God's symbolic grant of permission to His prophets to "intercede" for their followers on the Day of Judgment, see note 7above.)
(1985) On the Day when We shall gather the God-conscious unto the Most Gracious, as honoured guests, (1986) and drive those who were lost in sin unto hell as a thirsty herd is driven to a well - (1987) none will have intercession unless he has entered into a bond with the Most Gracious.74
20109 On that Day, intercession shall be of no avail save him in whose case the Most Gracious will have granted leave therefor, and whose word [of faith) He will have accepted.

drfazl

Peace,
wrkmmn

There is no disagreement with you whatsoever or against all those ayats of Quran, 'none has the stand against the judgement of Allah' on the Last Day.

But most of the ayats of Quran regarding intercession is only with reference to before each one's Last Day, before the death of a person while still living, Allah is there to forgive any one who is willing to turn to Him Alone. Most patients with terminal affliction they surely tend to turn to God but never to know the way unless they are shown the sign of God. God knows who has the individual ability still left in their hearts to grab His Sign, when shown. Allah will not waste such people's life on this earth.

For example, 20109, the J Day ayat.

On that day shall no intercession avail except of him whom the Beneficent Allah allows and whose word He is pleased with.

Note On the Day of execution of Allah's Judgement, on the Decisive Day, no intercession against His Order shall be allowed except, such of those who speak of such words which Allah would welcome and such words in favour of Allah's judgement, and such words that speak of His Glory. And those who intercede will be just and would only say such words that would satisfy Allah.

The day on which the spirit and the angels shall stand in ranks; they shall not speak except he whom the Beneficent Allah permits and who speaks the right thing.

And such of them would say thus

"If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."

Even while still living on this earth my prayer for my patients is the same. And I am against the view expressed by the Muhamad Assad that intercession is allowed for the prophets alone. Allah says those whose words He would be pleased with. I would say all shahidis, the Martyrs died living in the path of Allah also would intercede praising the Glory of His Judgement. Can you refer the verses where Allah says, exclusively the prophets alone would praise Allah's judgement, interceding in His Favour?

Those whom Allah had chosen to intercede on the day when His judgement to be executed would surely stand witness to intercede against the guilty and to intercede in favour of the pious. All the Martyrs too would be witnesses to their community people.

Kindly put in your views wrkmmn.

Salam
drfazl

zone

Very thoughtful post Zone. I'd ask you to clarify the last bit helping others to be guided with our prayers and dua? Is it a public prayer in a way as opposed to private? Or are you perhaps referencing a connection between everything, us inclusive, would somehow guide as on a deeper level there is no individual demarcation as such?

peace

Peace SC.

Thanks and sorry to take sometimes to respond. Allow me to add a bit more on my understanding on God consciousness.

Being God conscious means knowing God by self-discovering, to a level of certainty, His existence, His system, His Guidance and His Path and His Laws. The God is our Master and to Him we belong and to Him we shall return. Being God conscious means knowing our roles and responsibilities and to understand the limits as for what has been prescribed for us in His Book of Guidance, the Quran.

As a servant we shall never be the master, we shall never replace His authority, to be the judge and intercede on the Day of Judgment, and to be the Guide for anyone who deserve guidance in this life. We shall never pray=dua for guidance to anyone we love or just anyone for that matter because we do not have the knowledge, we don?t know what is in their heart and mind to be deserving servants of His Mercy and Grace.

They may be enemies of the God, thus we shall not take them as our allies, and to be among us and be part of the family of believers. We shall never ask something from Allah, the All Knowing, to forgive someone, to accept somebody to be guided in His siratul mustaqim (Straight Path), or asking anything pertaining to the fate of someone. This isn?t the right thing for us to do, a futile effort, for we do not possess the Power, the Authority and the Knowledge. This is beyond us. We don?t even know our position in the sight of Allah.

Our roles are just to deliver and to warn whomever we can reach with the God?s message in Truth. In this instance, we may become the agent for our Lord, Allah to guide someone who is deserving in His sight.

425 Allah knows very well your faith
445 Allah knows very well your enemies
653 Allah know very well the thankful, God knows very well the evildoers
6117 thy Lord knows very well who goes astray; He knows very well the right guided
6119 thy Lord knows very well the transgressors
1040 Thy Lord knows very well those who do corruption
1131 God knows best what is in their hearts
1970 We shall know very well those most deserving
2268 God knows very well what you are doing

Strangely, there are many people who do not fear Allah. There are many who dare to ask all these things from Allah, for their loved ones, their fellow ummah and their followers. There are those who dare to become the authority to judge who they think have strayed and to persecute them in this life, and they even willing to become the bearer of other people?s wrongdoings and sins.

Hope this answer your question. God bless you.

Zone.

savage_carrot

Very nicely explained Zone. I completely agree. No worries about taking time, I think you should post more often.

peace

zone

Very nicely explained Zone. I completely agree. No worries about taking time, I think you should post more often.

peace

Peace SC.
Thanks again, and will try to the best of my ability, God Willing.

Just to share
2172 O believers, eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you, and give thanks to God, if it be Him that you serve.

As believers we are to discover and share all the knowledge of Allah?s creations pertaining to food and provisions and the balanced diet formula. We should be observing our daily food consumption in order for us and our dependants to stay healthy, by feeding our cells the right stuff for its well being in accordance to the ayats of Allah (knowledge) and His Laws (sunnatullah).

Eat with His name, the good stuff and be thankful to Him so that we are always in a state of God consciousness at all levels at all times.

I wish to paste again the wonderful ayats of Allah that you have delivered earlier in your post.
2678 "The One who has created me, He will guide me."
2679 "And He is the One who feeds me and gives me to drink."
2680 "And if I am sick, He is the One who cures me."
2681 "And the One who will make me die and then bring me to life."
2682 "And the One whom I hope will forgive my mistakes on the Day of Judgment."

Let us recite this together as one family of believers
23109 Our Lord, we believe, therefore forgive us, and have mercy on us.

Zone.

wrkmmn

Peace drfazl

What I have posted regarding intercession is my current understanding, and I don't know if is going to change in the future (Allah knows best). Maybe there will be other intercessors from the true believers, but only on judgement day (God knows best). To be honest, I had never thought about intercession before this tread, except to reject saint/idol worship. Since I became a believer, I understood that my relationship with My Creator is one to one, and with no intermediary. Also, all my effort is in achieving heaven by my own, and not expecting anybody to intercede for me before God.

2186 AND IF My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way.
I someone ask you about God, just tell him/her that God is near and that He answers to those who call, and that you cannot call for him/her, for his/her call shall be a straight talk to the All Hearing.

5016 NOW, VERILY, it is We who have created man, and We know what his innermost self whispers within him for We are closer to him than his neck-vein.
Who is easier to call, somebody on the phone, or God the Most Merciful the All Hearing?

may God bless us with some wisdom.

newmoon

Peace Good Doctor,

while I do not subcribe to
faith healing as such, I make dua'a for all my needs including health. Having
said that, I am a strong believer in science as a tool and that would include
medical science as well. My granddaughter is alive today because of the
advances in medicine. I will sum up this segment by using the "fire" analogy
to medicine "Fire is helpful, but can also be harmful".

God Bless

peace

Peace.

Some, as an example, someone close to me, got a cancer, a benign type.

So, she has to look for a problem solver. Whether the conventional or the alternative. She went through both methods. Her parents believe in the alternative method. She had seizures almost everyday. Then I took her to seek an advice from a medical practitioner, he scanned, and suggested a surgery with fifty-fifty chance of success. Finally, she went into the surgical room and had the operation to remove the egg size tumor in the brain and she survived to date (after 20 years).

I believe that all phenomena are created in truth by Allah, the Creator. His creations are everywhere, around us and within us. We are descendants of scientists.

Peace hawk99, zone and to All

2680 We All believe that When we are ill, HE is the one who cures us.

12106 And most of us do not believe Allah without associating partners.

10100 It is not for any person to BELIEVE, except by the leave of Allah,

and HE will place doubt who will not reason.

3163 They are in varying grades with Allah, and Allah sees what they do.

Thus, one would believe that when Iam ill HE cures me through

a. Modern Medicine -

Doctor of Medicine, Specialised Doctors, Surgeon, Specialised Surgeons ..,

b. Siddha

c. Ayurvedha

d.Homeopathy

e. Naturopathy

f. Pranic Healing, Reiki etc..,

g. Acupuncture and so on..,

And when all the above system fails ALLAH ALONE- BELIEF HEALING Triumphs.

So there are varying grades to the degree we associate with Allah, we choose

Modern Medicine which is born out of war, from our utter hastiness , wherein

butchering organs is order of the day. Depending upon one's sincerity

in their prayer , reasoning increases as their patience increases day by day and

ultimately one day they would realise that Allah Alone would be sufficient,

not only for health but for all needs.

3179 Allah would not leave us in the present state, until he separates evil from

good, nor will HE disclose the unseen. If you believe and fear Allah Alone,

then there is a great reward without measure.

8419 You shall surely experience from one stage to other.

Depending upon one's belief one would experience better or worse

for the days to come.

As regards to the person who believe that surgery has saved their life ,

the quality of life they lead is pitiable.

The above said is from my own experience from within and around me,

and for people who look for evidence and proof,

1096 For you it is your way, me it is mine.

Regards

Balachandran

wrkmmn

peace
beautiful post newmoon

In words attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas says (56) Jesus said He who has known the world has found a corpse; and he who has found a corpse, the world is not worthy of him.

So if a true believer has found the corpse, why will he want to remain with it when his time comes, either by accident or disease?. When the time comes, a true believer shall be happy that he is going to meet his Lord the Most Merciful. Oh, I really hope my lord purifies my heart and I get to that stage before my time comes.

May God bless us with some wisdom.

newmoon

peace
beautiful post newmoon

In words attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas says (56) Jesus said He who has known the world has found a corpse; and he who has found a corpse, the world is not worthy of him.

So if a true believer has found the corpse, why will he want to remain with it when his time comes, either by accident or disease?. When the time comes, a true believer shall be happy that he is going to meet his Lord the Most Merciful. Oh, I really hope my lord purifies my heart and I get to that stage before my time comes.

May God bless us with some wisdom.

Peace wrkmmn

2132, 12101

Allah has chosen us the straight path of ISLAM-the way to SALAM-PEACE, and

We shall not die except as ones fully satisfied with HIM, and join with the righteous.

May Allah bless us with full of Wisdom.

Balachandran

justamuslim

I sincerely hope not. The site needs more people like you to counter & dilute the influence of the fraudsters and quacks. I mean what a bigger hypocrite than calling ones self a dr and then stating doctors are evil. These type need exposing and not to be left unchallenged to spread their nonsense. Unfortunately many believe their lies often with deadly consequences.

This website has become a medium for crusaders, saviors, messengers and such. I don't believe we have had a prophet - not yet. It has become not a place to discuss and share but for persons to minister bringing along their followers.

There is no way I would tell my friends or family that I am a member of this forum or invite anyone to check this website. I know what my friends and family would say questioning my sanity and why I am wasting my time with characters like drfazl.

As I am reading posts from years ago, many persons who contributed much seemed to have left or not active. I have gotten so much and this is a place where I have frequented during some lonely difficult times. And so, stillearning, my feelings are mixed as there is a part of me that wants to leave this site completely.

God says clearly there will always be persons like drfazl and the like. There are those who will use God's words to serve their purposes or positions. From reading the Koran, we know that satan's intent is to lead people astray. What best way to do that than using God's words. Satan has already mislead the vast majority of the Muslims with the hadith and it is only expected that satan will find more clever ways of misleading those who rejected hadiths with God's words. And those who listen to such nonsense not using their sense are responsible for their actions.

I have been asked by Sunnis if I belong to a cult and these same persons if they read this nonsense absurd claims and posts by drfazl would surely think God alone people are crazy. I know what my impression would have been if I read such absurdity years ago when I came to this website. And those who are lurking and seeking to learn about Islam based on Quran alone, I sure would hate for them to think that members here are all "wacko".

And so for now, stillearning, will stick around here much to satans disappointment.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

It takes a fool to remain sane

God bless you

zone

Peace hawk99, zone and to All

2680 We All believe that When we are ill, HE is the one who cures us.

12106 And most of us do not believe Allah without associating partners.

10100 It is not for any person to BELIEVE, except by the leave of Allah,

and HE will place doubt who will not reason.

3163 They are in varying grades with Allah, and Allah sees what they do.

Thus, one would believe that when Iam ill HE cures me through

a. Modern Medicine -

Doctor of Medicine, Specialised Doctors, Surgeon, Specialised Surgeons ..,

b. Siddha

c. Ayurvedha

d.Homeopathy

e. Naturopathy

f. Pranic Healing, Reiki etc..,

g. Acupuncture and so on..,

And when all the above system fails ALLAH ALONE- BELIEF HEALING Triumphs.

So there are varying grades to the degree we associate with Allah, we choose

Modern Medicine which is born out of war, from our utter hastiness , wherein

butchering organs is order of the day. Depending upon one's sincerity

in their prayer , reasoning increases as their patience increases day by day and

ultimately one day they would realise that Allah Alone would be sufficient,

not only for health but for all needs.

3179 Allah would not leave us in the present state, until he separates evil from

good, nor will HE disclose the unseen. If you believe and fear Allah Alone,

then there is a great reward without measure.

8419 You shall surely experience from one stage to other.

Depending upon one's belief one would experience better or worse

for the days to come.

As regards to the person who believe that surgery has saved their life ,

the quality of life they lead is pitiable.

The above said is from my own experience from within and around me,

and for people who look for evidence and proof,

1096 For you it is your way, me it is mine.

Regards

Balachandran

Peace newmoon.

I have my own personal encounter with ?faith healers,? following people to see those people. From my experience, there are several categories of them

Those who said they can see jinns, good ones and bad ones, and how the bad ones disturb and disrupt our bio-chemistry-physical systems and I have seen them performing the challenge and fight with those beings
Those who can see people in other zones/places from their house
Those who can cure people from their ?prayers=duas? by either touching or from a distance
Those who can control the mind and characters of other people for approximately five months.

I have witnessed their ?miraculous? powers in healing, their ability to see and describe people that they have not met, healing the pains of patients, controlling people minds and behaviors, etc.
They did it with certain ?prayers?, chants and whispers. I didn?t hear exactly what words they muttered. When asked, most of them said they used only Quran and hadith.

I am Quran-only as guidance believer. I construct my worldview from ayats of Allah as my frame of reference. From this angle, my only concern and the question that lingers in my mind, is, what ?forces? are they using to be able to see and perform all those things? Are their abilities and forces coming directly from Allah or something else?

I have my own perspective on the matter from my own observation, experience, knowledge and worldview.

Zone.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Most of the time these people are fake. If the "patients" get well it is due to the placebo effect.

But on the other hand, there may be some serious practitioner, but they would be a clear minority in that case. A prayer healer can only help the patient get confidence in God, if the patient goes there with doubt in their heart the prayer will have no effect. You can of course pray for someone, but the person with the problem must have their own strong Faith in God.

I have no doubt though that God may send people as signs with "supernatural" abilities to heal etc, Jesus had just that, but I am sure not the guy-next-doors will get that ability, and they probably need to be very devoted servants of God.

God bless you

oneandonly

Salaam justamuslim,

I completely agree with what you said. However, I would also suggest you to remain active on the site as a newbie like me needs more and more information that actually makes sense) from a person like you to strengthen beliefs.

Myself, I have found many articles written by hadith lovers and by the people who are against Quran alone movement in this site. That does not mean we have to follow all of them. do we? God has sent us clear guidance and given us wisdom to choose between good and bad. We can use those to decide what to follow and what not. reading all those crap does not mean we follow them too. We only follow that actually makes sense and are according God's message.

Peace

This website has become a medium for crusaders, saviors, messengers and such. I don't believe we have had a prophet - not yet. It has become not a place to discuss and share but for persons to minister bringing along their followers.

There is no way I would tell my friends or family that I am a member of this forum or invite anyone to check this website. I know what my friends and family would say questioning my sanity and why I am wasting my time with characters like drfazl.

As I am reading posts from years ago, many persons who contributed much seemed to have left or not active. I have gotten so much and this is a place where I have frequented during some lonely difficult times. And so, stillearning, my feelings are mixed as there is a part of me that wants to leave this site completely.

God says clearly there will always be persons like drfazl and the like. There are those who will use God's words to serve their purposes or positions. From reading the Koran, we know that satan's intent is to lead people astray. What best way to do that than using God's words. Satan has already mislead the vast majority of the Muslims with the hadith and it is only expected that satan will find more clever ways of misleading those who rejected hadiths with God's words. And those who listen to such nonsense not using their sense are responsible for their actions.

I have been asked by Sunnis if I belong to a cult and these same persons if they read this nonsense absurd claims and posts by drfazl would surely think God alone people are crazy. I know what my impression would have been if I read such absurdity years ago when I came to this website. And those who are lurking and seeking to learn about Islam based on Quran alone, I sure would hate for them to think that members here are all "wacko".

And so for now, stillearning, will stick around here much to satans disappointment.

kgwithnob

We do not need any monitory paid intercessor between us and GOD for communication of any kind. Otherwise, it?s nothing but a fraudulent trade in which the con artist intercessor is the winner and the gullible payer is for sure the loser.

Peace,
Khalil

Man_of_Faith

Peace kgwithnob,

That is in its clarity true. They should not charge any money to begin with, if they were seriously God's servants.

Someone with powers like Jesus would never ask for money anyway. Regarding prayer healing, it is best to trust your own Faith than relying on intercessors like you said. To ask someone for money to pray for them is fraudulent, is it not?

God bless you

zone

Peace.

I seek to follow the God?s way from His guidance, the Quran in context of the Quran?s touch-time zone. That means the following are my present viewpoints

I have not found any aya of the Quran on dua to ask Allah to help heal someone. If you find one, please share. My point is, true healing and cure is Allah?s business, seeking true cure is our business. Asking help directly from Allah through dua is in accordance to His Guidance.
My view on miracle, whatever miracle (also known as aya as sign from the God) that has happened has been mentioned in the Quran, whether performed by prophets, and about whoever and whatever. In the context of the Quran?s touch-time zone, the only miracle we are witnessing is related to the Quran. If you find any aya which says about other miracles about anything other than the Quran we can witness in this Quran?s touch-time zone, please share.
Supernatural stuff performed by people to affect the lives of other people in this Quran?s touch-time zone is possible, only as a trial, for those who choose to seek help from those things (magical knowledge) brought down by malayka in the history of mankind with the permission of Allah as mentioned in the Quran. In the present life, one can actually get the powers and abilities if they seek those things.
My point is we need only Allah directly for help and protection through dua (all the pertinent and relevant ones to be said for the sake of our goodness (hasanah) in this life and the next can be obtained from the Quran).

To Allah I seek refuge from the whisperers of syaithan.

Zone.

stillearning

Aoa justamuslim

It has become not a place to discuss and share but for persons to minister bringing along their followers.

The very reason why people like you need to stick around

As I am reading posts from years ago, many persons who contributed much seemed to have left or not active. I have gotten so much and this is a place where I have frequented during some lonely difficult times. And so, stillearning, my feelings are mixed as there is a part of me that wants to leave this site completely.

Exactly the reason why I was attracted to this site many yrs ago. Unfortunately for me time is in short supply & also sad to see many of Quran believers leave this site.

God says clearly there will always be persons like drfazl and the like. There are those who will use God's words to serve their purposes or positions. From reading the Koran, we know that satan's intent is to lead people astray. What best way to do that than using God's words. Satan has already mislead the vast majority of the Muslims with the hadith and it is only expected that satan will find more clever ways of misleading those who rejected hadiths with God's words. And those who listen to such nonsense not using their sense are responsible for their actions.

I am afraid I have no polite word other than fraudsters (which is v polite compared to what I really think). CHARGING usd2000 & claiming to be doing God's work. Well anyone with an ounce of intelligence can make up their own mind.
Personally I consider it a criminal act and should be treated as such. Apart from fraudulently obtaining money, God knows how many cases of manslaughter these people are responsible a for. Sorry if I appear to be harsh. But I have seen the damage these people cause & hence the contempt.

And so for now, stillearning, will stick around here much to satans disappointment.

Cool.

Aoa zone

Correct there is no aya.

Unfortunately I find it difficult (unlike yourself) to be polite to some the characters here

Regards

kgwithnob

...1) I have not found any aya of the Quran on dua to ask Allah to help heal someone. If you find one, please share. My point is, true healing and cure is Allah?s business, seeking true cure is our business. Asking help directly from Allah through dua is in accordance to His Guidance...

See 2186, 2286, 2762, for the start.

Peace,
Khalil