Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
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Harmony be with you,
And I have broken the myth about the mysterious "salat". And you will be quite surprised of what I am going to have to say. And likely a lot of people will never have faith in what I am going to say.
But this is indeed the truth from The Master. I was shocked over the truth myself that people could be so deceived by the interpretation of the Arabic language.
When I have recovered from my shock I will try to reveal to you what it is that I really discovered, but I can say it utterly nullifies the delusion that it means anything like "contact prayer". Not even remotely it means "contact prayer".
God bless you
Salaam,
I am interested to know about what Allah teaches you about Salaat.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Harmony be with you,
I will return with my discoveries when I have enough arguments to be able to stand by them. I need to cover every loophole that can make people get an advantage first. And it has been a tedious work deciphering this abused text and without misrepresenting what it really says.
God bless you
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Harmony be with you,
And I have broken the myth about the mysterious "salat". And you will be quite surprised of what I am going to have to say. And likely a lot of people will never have faith in what I am going to say.
But this is indeed the truth from The Master. I was shocked over the truth myself that people could be so deceived by the interpretation of the Arabic language.
When I have recovered from my shock I will try to reveal to you what it is that I really discovered, but I can say it utterly nullifies the delusion that it means anything like "contact prayer". Not even remotely it means "contact prayer".
God bless you
I'm all ears bro.
And I doubt I'll be shocked. Especially if it makes sense. In that case it would just feel good, no matter how different it is from the common interpretations. I usually say that the closer you go to religion, the farther away from God you get. Bring it on!
The only thing I keep being amazed at is to what lengths people are willing to let them selves be deceived, having no interest in searching for something truer than what currently held as belief. Sad, and amazing.
Wish you all the best, and the Creator's wonderful blessings in your search for truth.
sun -
When I have recovered from my shock
http//4.bp.blogspot.com/-5BFO3PDratE/Tv9GFxyXbXI/AAAAAAAAAj8/xjYxSRsI3IU/s400/kiki%2Bemoticon.png
I will try to reveal to you what it is that I really discovered, but I can say it utterly nullifies the delusion that it means anything like "contact prayer". Not even remotely it means "contact prayer".
I still like to perform contact prayer, even if it turns out that contact prayer doesn't have any relation with the order to uphold Salat.
However, I hope what you're going to reveal in this forum (regarding Salat) is true, brother.
I'm ready to listen to your explanations in this regard, inshaAllah.
Peace.
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Peace,
I am a bit fascinated that this is such an important topic to people, but well it is to me too.
It takes a bit of time because when begun to wrestle with it it happens that I started a chain reaction which revealed a ton of more errors on the same level as this one. And to make my corrections fit in I have to change a lot of the other errors too or mine will contradict a lot. And that does not mean I changed anything from what the author, ie God, wanted to convey but rather "turn things right".
The interesting thing is that "islam" looks a whole lot more like "Christianity" with the corrections which should not really surprise anyone considered the origin of the practices. I am actually glad that it turned out that way because I never liked that compulsory islam with exactly timed rituals and such which is just a pagan/associator influence. Without the trinity and Jesus-obsession it is a fine "religion" but it in fact is not any different just the difference is in the amount of falsehood entering the various groups.
And if I solve this last part and it is convincing, damn how many death threats I will get from the sects! rotfl
But after I have done all these changes people can choose themselves what to do with it and I have done my part.
And I thought I was done when coming unto the 'Peace and Prosperity' part of this thread, but interestingly this noob is about to explain this soup.
God bless you
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And if I solve this last part and it is convincing, damn how many death threats I will get from the sects! rotfl
Bold It is not to be laughed at... elektro
You indeed have to be careful... http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-wn2wPLAukW8/U1vy7Ol5aEI/AAAAAAAAGq0/f7C6-otIDY0/s1600/squinting-emoticon.png
Peace.
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Peace,
Do not worry, sister. I die if God allows it and if God wants to protect me then The Master will do so. No reason to be afraid.
They will likely not do anything unless I become a threat anyway.
God bless you
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Peace,
I am a bit fascinated that this is such an important topic to people, but well it is to me too.
It takes a bit of time because when begun to wrestle with it it happens that I started a chain reaction which revealed a ton of more errors on the same level as this one. And to make my corrections fit in I have to change a lot of the other errors too or mine will contradict a lot. And that does not mean I changed anything from what the author, ie God, wanted to convey but rather "turn things right".
The interesting thing is that "islam" looks a whole lot more like "Christianity" with the corrections which should not really surprise anyone considered the origin of the practices. I am actually glad that it turned out that way because I never liked that compulsory islam with exactly timed rituals and such which is just a pagan/associator influence. Without the trinity and Jesus-obsession it is a fine "religion" but it in fact is not any different just the difference is in the amount of falsehood entering the various groups.
And if I solve this last part and it is convincing, damn how many death threats I will get from the sects! rotfl
But after I have done all these changes people can choose themselves what to do with it and I have done my part.
And I thought I was done when coming unto the 'Peace and Prosperity' part of this thread, but interestingly this noob is about to explain this soup.
God bless you
Salaam,
What a anti-climax >(
I was ready to get a big shock >(Now you have put yourself in a difficult situation yes
Salaam
Bender -
I am following this discussion laugh eat
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Peace,
Have patience, dear Bender. You may have your shock if you manage to understand what I am going to reveal. You probably know that if one word is erroneously interpreted it affects more or less all instances within the recitation. And I cannot jump unto an interpretation without verifying it carefully first.
God bless you
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Salamun Alaikum.
Below is the meaning of the English term "salute" from Merrium Webster Dictionary
sa-lute verb \s-l?t\
to give a sign of respect to (a military officer, flag, etc.) by moving your right hand to your forehead to give a salute to (someone or something)
to show respect for (someone or something) / to publicly praise (someone or something)
Note that the term has 2 distinct meanings and each meaning becomes obvious in a given context. Example
- The soldiers saluted the General when he entered the room.
- I salute brother MoF for his excellent effort on this post.
While it is obvious in the first sentence the term "salute" has a more literal meaning (i.e. showing respect by moving your right hand to your forehead), in the second sentence the more subtle meaning (publicly praise) is appropriate. In the given context reader should be able to discern the appropriate meaning. Let me put it this way as if the word has a body and a soul - while the body is the first literal meaning, the soul of the word is really the second subtle meaning. It is interesting to note that in some context only the soul would suffice and in other context both the body and the soul need to come together - but it is never the body alone. I mean just raising the hand to forehead without any intension of showing respect would never be a true "salute" - at least not in the proper essence of the word.
The reason of getting into the details of this word is it is similar to Arabic terms "Ruku" and "Sujud" discussed here. All these words have both literal meanings (body) as well as subtle meanings (soul). What brother MoF has shown here that the souls of the words suffice for understanding of all the relevant verses. Of course they do - and brother MoF has all my "salute" for his effort in showing this. The essence of the word is realy in the meanings that brother MoF has proposed and often in an mechanical translation these meanings are lost. However, let's not make the mistake of ruling out the literal meaning or the body of the word altogether (i.e. ruku = bow down, and sujud = prostrate) . In relevant verses the terms do convey both the meanings - otherwise our Master would not choose these specific words.
Some of us find it difficult to understand the mechanical body movements associated with the salaat ritual. Allow me share with you an excerpt from the book "Road to Mecca" by Muhammad Asad. The book discusses the author's journey from Judaism to Islam. In the quoted passage the author is discussing the "physical salat ritual" with an old man (hajji).
It somehow disturbed me to see so real a prayer combined with almost mechanical body movements, and one day I asked the hajji, who understood a little English
'Do you really believe that God expects you to show Him your respect by repeated bowing and kneeling and prostration? Might it not be better only to look into oneself and to pray to Him in the stillness of one's heart? Why all these movements of your body?'As soon as I had uttered these words I felt remorse, for I had not intended to injure the old man's religious feelings. But the hajji did not appear in the least offended. He smiled with his toothless mouth and replied
'How else then should we worship God? Did He not create both, soul and body, together? And this being so, should man not pray with his body as well as with his soul? Listen, I will tell you why we Muslims pray as we pray. We turn toward the Kaaba, God's holy temple in Mecca, knowing that the faces of all Muslims, wherever they may be, they turned to it in prayer, and that we are like one body, with Him as the centre of our thoughts. First we stand upright and recite from the Holy Koran, remembering that it is His Word. given to man that he may be upright and steadfast in life. Then we say, "God is the Greatest," reminding ourselves that no one deserves to be worshipped but Him; and bow down deep because we honour Him above all, and praise His power and glory. Thereafter we prostrate ourselves on our foreheads because we feel that we are but dust and nothingness before Him, and that He is our Creator and Sustainer on high. Then we lift our faces from the ground and remain sitting, praying that He forgive us our sins and bestow His grace upon us, and guide us aright. and give us health and sustenance. Then we again prostrate ourselves on the ground and touch the dust with our foreheads before the might and the glory of the One. After that, We remain sitting and pray that He bIess the Prophet Muhammad who brought His message to us, just as He blessed the earlier Prophets; and that He bless us as well, and all those who follow the right guidance; and we ask Him to give us of the good of this world and of the good of the world to come. In the end we turn our heads to the right and to the left, saying, "Peace and the grace of God be upon you" -and thus greet all who are righteous, wherever they may be.'It was thus that our Prophet used to pray and taught his followers to pray for all times, so that they might willingly surrender themselves to God -which is what Islam means -and so be at peace with Him and with their own destiny.'
The old man did not, of course, use exactly these words, but this was their meaning, and this is how I remember them. Years later I realized that with his simple explanation the hajji had opened to me the first door to Islam; but even then, long before any thought that Islam might become my own faith entered my mind, I began to feel an unwonted humility whenever I saw, as I often did, a man standing barefoot on his prayer rug, or on a straw mat, or on the bare earth, with his arms folded over his chest and his head lowered, entirely submerged within himself, oblivious of what was going on around him, whether it was in a mosque or on the sidewalk of a busy street a man at peace with himself.
May all guide us all to the straight route.
Best regards,
Arman -
Peace,
I sincerely doubt that ruku and sujud connote on bowing and prostration because particularly the latter would need a more complex combination of words/letters to be forming that advanced meaning.
If you want sujud to mean prostrate then you need to combine them with fall down sujud for example, but then it means still "he fell down in respect".
So the action depends how what kind of respectful expression that you make.
God bless you
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Peace brother MoF.
It is not always realistic to expect the meaning of the word to be embedded in its root / structure. Words in any language acquire the meaning based on the usage by the people speaking the language and their understanding. That?s what dictionaries and lexicon?s try to capture.
I believe the most appropriate approach to Qur?an is to draw wisdom and inspiration from it and to ponder over it ? not so much to ?interpret? it. Only Allah knows the interpretation (Ref 37). As long as you are saying that you have found a better insight from the Qur?an by focusing on the ?being humble? meaning of the term ?Ruku? etc. - I believe that is perfectly alright. But sometimes your tone (terms like ?Myth Buster? etc.) seems to imply that you have discovered the ?definitive interpretation? of these terms ? that attitude seems to be a bit troubling to me. That will be all from me on this post.
Wish you all the best. May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Peace,
God is the author of the narration and words are built around the base meaning of words and it is not based on how people use languages but purely on a structure of grammar using affixes and help through combination of words. And one base word has he same meaning in each reoccurrence no matter context, but compounds based on affixes and/or other words modify the meaning based on the base meaning(s), sometimes two words.
The word for prostration is possible, but it takes a form more complicated than the one implied by s - j -d. Such word only connote on very simple expressions or motions.
Suppose that God is he sole author then The Master would incline on using simplest possible language so that no one can misinterpret it. Ironically people still managed to do that by either inferring a meaning too advanced for the word or by assigning a meaning never there in the first place (refer to wife "beating" or "cutting"of hands). For example, "s - l - w" (used for salah) cannot imply a too complicated expression or motion due to the simplicity of the word.
Even if we were to anticipate that it means "to pray" then its use must suit all occurrences of the word. But would you claim that birds are praying, having no real self-awareness and thus use for it? Does it help them in any way?
This phenomenon is simply because salah does not mean 'to pray'. If you do not have faith in my words I will soon show that the whole narration becomes illogical and unreasonable using this traditional interpretation and it makes much more sense then. And I promise you that "islam" looks nearly identical to the so-called "christianity" minus the Jesus obsession and some misconception that you are supposed to be a passivist.
God bless you
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Peace,
Just so you know there are 89 EDIT 98 instances with the root and many of them cause lots of contradiction in their current interpretation and sometimes also completely different stories than what the Author originally intended. If you know me I will need to make all 89 right before I even try to present it here or at least a majority of them enough to cause overwhelming "evidence" that proves this point. Not that I really expect 100% of people to have faith in it regardless despite overwhelming signs tempt
So bare with me until I have more meat on my legs.
God bless you
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Peace,
God is the author of the narration and words are built around the base meaning of words and it is not based on how people use languages but purely on a structure of grammar using affixes and help through combination of words. And one base word has he same meaning in each reoccurrence no matter context, but compounds based on affixes and/or other words modify the meaning based on the base meaning(s), sometimes two words.
Salam Brother Man of Faith.
I would respectfully disagree with the notion that "one base word has the same meaning in each reoccurrence no matter context". This cannot be true for any functional language not even Arabic. If you examine words like shahid (witness / martyr) or fitna (provocation / persucation) you'll see that it is not possible to use same word with the same meaning in every verse.
Since you are asking me about the term salaat ? let me humbly provide my understanding of the term. I am sorry if this gets a bit long, but hope you?ll have the patience.
I do believe the primary meaning (essence) of the term is somewhere close to ?respect and loyalty? or ?invocation of respect and loyalty?. Even dictionaries / lexicons would support this. It is in that meaning the angels and the believers invoke salaat on the Prophet. So, when Qur?an says ?establish salaat? we are primarily ordered to formally acknowledge and firmly incorporate the respect and loyalty to the Master of the Universe in our life. However starting from Abraham and Ismael, the prophets of Abrahamic millat have taught their followers certain rites and rituals (manasikan) to formally invoke ?salaat?. . Our last prophet Muhammad (peace be upon all of them) also followed the tradition. The exact format, timing, frequency and mannerism of the ritual of course varied with age and community, and I believe the prophets themselves remained way more flexible regarding these compared to some of their followers ? but the basic components ? humbly stand up ? pray ? bow down ? prostrate remained somewhat common.
When used in connection to a practicing follower of Abrahamic millat, the term ?salaat? incorporates in it those rituals ? just like the term ?salute? incorporates in it the connotation of raising one?s hand to one?s forehead whenever it is used in connection to a military unit; although as a general term ?salute? may or may not always involve that action.
This formal expression of respect is not unique to religion only.. for example, before sports people play national anthem and stand in silence to show respect. This is a form of invocation of respect and loyalty for one?s country. Arguably anyone can be respectful and loyal to a country without standing still during national anthem ? but still that is a prescribed ritual which everyone tends to accept and practice. True loyalty to one?s country involves loyalty in the heart as well as loyalty to the form (national anthem, flag etc.).
I humbly believe that a conscious person (muttaqui) would know that to establish salaat (respect and loyalty to the Master of the Universe) one does not necessarily need to adhere to a particular ritual, but at the same time he would be respectful to ?salat ritual? (more specifically musallat) that has been prescribed to him through generally accepted practice ? just like a true patriot is always respectful to the flag and anthem.
So, when I read Qur?an, if I find the term ?salaat? in connection to inanimate object, I understand the meaning as loyalty ? when I find the term in connection to a follower of Abrahamic millat (e.g. Zechariah), I understand the person is invoking loyalty and respect through a prescribed ritual. When there is a general directive on ?establish salaat? I understand this is a general instruction to firmly incorporate respect and loyalty in our life, but when the prescription is to specifically guard on salaat or salaat at prescribed time ? I understand it is talking about the invocation of respect through a prescribed form of ritual. Allah does not need our salaat ritual ? our predecessors (i.e. prophets) offered the salaat ritual to Allah and our Master acknowledged the ritual as a valid form of invocation of respect and prescribed it upon the believers. Now if we turn back from the ritual ? it would be only we acting arrogant - at our own peril. On the other hand being a salaat ritualist (musalli) without incorporating respect and loyalty in heart is a meaningless, fruitless excercise.
This is how I read and understand Qur?an ? you may or may not agree and I would urge you to take the best meaning based on your conscience and intellect and let me follow mine.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
I have just written in the thread on ribaa and mentionned "excess". I agree here also with Armanaziz, concerning the ritual, but understand that it is also very easy in matters of ritual to fall in excess. We tend to feel the obligation to the ritual and not to the reason of the ritual. When we get to that point, something should be done. Drop the ritual? Change the ritual?
The ritual in a sense has the same value as any other habit. It is a habit. Habits are necessary in our lives, otherwise we would be like a feather in the wind. But we should not be slaves of habit. That is one good thing about the traditional month of ramadan, which breaks habits and therefore any slavery to them.
That is a problem of those we have to solve each of us. Take advantage of habits, or ritual, but not be their servants but their "exploiter". If they are not helpful for us, then we should do something about it. May be make an effort oursleves to be more "present", conscious in our rituals. May be adhere to rituals that fit our disposition better... But to kee balance, to do away with all rituals might make things even more difficult for us than adhering to any of them. We have to make an effort ourselves and try to be always sincere.
And here I would cite a hadith, which in fact I do like
"Religion is sincerity". Very sort, but true, when sincerity goes religion is harmful. Sincerity is the cure of fanaticism. Sincerity works on oneself and not towards the others. We exact from ourselves and do not mind other's people business. Rituals are for our innerselves, not for the market.
Salaam
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Peace,
Arabic root words connote either on the same mental image or physical motion modified by compounds and affixes, but always keep their fundamental meaning although changing the perspective. But the ones for traditionally prostrate is still too complicated an action for sujud with only two syllables. People derive too complicated meanings out of the poor Arabic words and that is the point here just to justify motions in traditional islam. Nowhere in Quran it mentions positions for salat. If it is saying, traditionally, stand for God dutifully it means stand (by) God dutifully and not some position but a kind of service or devotion.
As for those times it traditionally says bow with those who bow it means to be humble with others who are humble.
As for salah I will soon show that it has been gravely misinterpreted for many many years.
You can use sujud for prostration, but then you have to add more words and letters. Otherwise it implies on respect. To pay homage is sujud, like saluting someone is sujud or to prostrate.
And I am not intending to remove your prayer practices completely because they are there in our faith. But I only want to show you that it is not a ritualistic neanderthal religion. You call upon your Master because you want to do so because you have grasped a wonderful thing. And you can express yourself with your body in whatever way you want. And I got crazy the other day and ran around throwing myself on the ground after breaking the linguistic myth with the recitation and salah. It is a motion that comes automatically for a reverent person that becomes very happy for what God is doing.
God bless you