Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Scribbler

Peace,

If they had something to teach then yes. In the decree and the scriptural manifestation is a big lesson. If you choose to still think of a ritualistic prayer feel free to do it and I am not to be blamed for that.

People can teach about the decree, but one must be careful in what they say. Fortunately the decree is very simple in what we should do and not do so there is not much to worry about. Most of us already know the decree, we are just indulging ourselves in a lot of other conjecture and of this we are informed.

Have faith

Dear Man of Faith,

As-salam alaykum and thank you for your reply.

I would like to put forward to you a question which I believe is pertinent to the reply you have given me above. Please see the verse below.

1087
We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers (Arabic wa-aqimu l-salata) and give glad tidings to those who believe!"

In the above verse we could see that prophet Moses (pbuh) and his brother (pbuh) has been inspired to go and tell the Children of Israel to establish the salat.

If you read the above verse in context with the following verses of the chapter, you will see that this instruction of establishing salat to the Children of Israel came long before prophet Moses (pbuh) even received the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments.

Now my question is, if the word salat means 'teaching/preaching of the Book', then how did the Children of Israel carry out their teaching/preaching when they did not even have the Ten Commandments between them, let alone the entire Taurat?

Regards.

Man_of_Faith

Dear Man of Faith,

As-salam aykum and thank you for your reply.

I would like to put forward to you a question which I believe is pertinent to the reply you have given me above. Please see the verse below.

1087
We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers (Arabic wa-aqimu l-salata) and give glad tidings to those who believe!"

In the above verse we could see that prophet Moses (pbuh) and his brother (pbuh) has been inspired to go and tell the Children of Israel to establish the salat.

If you read the above verse in context with the following verses of the chapter, you will see that this instruction of establishing salat to the Children of Israel came long before prophet Moses (pbuh) even received the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments.

Now my question is, if the word salat means 'teaching/preaching of the Book', then how did the Children of Israel carry out their teaching/preaching when they did not even have the Ten Commandments between them, let alone the entire Taurat?

Regards.

Peace,

The simple answer to that is the text before the remember the teaching in the passage you gave as example, i.e make assemblies to be a "role model". They are told to remember that lesson. And Moses was told to serve God alone before any decree was told to him and to "remember that lesson".

And the people of Shuyab questioned what was being taught.

But like I said; you are free to put your faith in a ritualistic prayer.

Have faith

Mazhar

To remember a lesson is a fully acceptable phrase in English

The difference
remember the lesson
becomes something vague when it appears in the text. Unless you had clarified somewhere before its occurrence, only then it will convey the sense of referring to that particular lesson which was earlier taught. I hope you will now get the point by seeing what "lesson" means and conveys

les?son
noun (plural les?sons)

instruction period a period of time spent teaching or learning a subject
material taught material to be taught or studied
new or better knowledge some useful knowledge or sense that results from direct experience
I think there's a lesson there for all of us - think ahead.
useful experience something that acts as an example, punishment, or warning by teaching something not previously understood or accepted
rebuke a strong criticism or reproof, usually instructing or reminding somebody how to behave correctly
I need to give him a lesson in how to behave properly.
Les?sonBible passage a passage from the Bible that is read out to the congregation during a church service
Today's lesson is from the book of Matthew.

transitive verb (past and past participle les?soned, present participle les?son?ing, 3rd person present singular les?sons)

instruct somebody to teach somebody
scold somebody to scold somebody for doing something wrong

Man_of_Faith

It is easy. Remember and do what you are taught. What is so hard to understand by that?

Use your knowledge. Ehh.

If you are just going to argue the same thing please bring it to a different thread.

And you must realize that the salat words connotes on learning, teaching and lesson all depending on affixes and context. It is a mental image that you have to paint for yourself in your mind.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Obviously some of the language is paraphrased to sound acceptable in English.

671-72 Say ?Shall we call upon other than God what cannot benefit us or harm us, and we turn back on our heels after God has guided us?? This is like the one whom the devils have managed to mislead on the earth, he is confused, having friends who call him to the guidance ?Come to us!?

Say ?The guidance is the guidance of God, and we have been ordered to submit to the knowledgeable Master and you shall remember the teaching(s) and be aware; and to Him you will be gathered...

692-93 And this is a decree which We have sent down, blessed, truthful to what is in his possession, and that you may warn the capital of the towns and those around it and those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it and they follow their teaching(s)/lesson, and who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or says ?It has been inspired to me,? when We did not inspire anything to him; or who says ?I will bring down the same as what God has sent down.? And if you could only see the wicked at the moments of death when the angels have their arms opened ?Bring yourselves out, today you will be given the severest punishment for what you used to say about God without truth, and you used to be arrogant towards His facts.?

6161 Say ?My Lord has guided me to a way of mindfulness, a system mindful of the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.?
6162 Say ?My teaching, and my deeds, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?

7170 As for those who hold fast to the decree and are mindful of the lesson/teaching; We will not waste the reward of the righteous.

81 They ask you regarding the spoils, say ?The spoils are for God and the messenger.? So be aware of God, and be upright in matters between you; and obey God and His messenger if you are believers.
82 The believers are those whom, when God is mentioned, their hearts reverence; and when His revelations are recited to them, it increases their faith; and they put their trust in their Lord.
83 They are mindful of the lesson and from Our provisions to them they spend.
84 These are the true believers; they will have grades with their Lord and a forgiveness and a generous provision.

95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent and they hold the contact prayer they are mindful of the lesson/teaching and become purified, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Where are you people? Do you still believe in prayer for salat? Or otherwise just kill like maniacs, kill kill kill!!!

911 If they repent, and are mindful of the teaching/lesson and are purified, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.

984 And do not speak for any of them who have died, nor stand at their grave. They have opposed God and His messenger and died while they were wicked.

Here you may have hints that my understanding may still be tweaked. But it is still to be mindful of what you are taught with the salat thing. The correspondence occurred and not a ritualistic prayer.

999 And from the Nomads are those who believe in God and the Last Day, and he looks upon what he spends to make him closer to God, and the contact prayers TEACHINGS of the messenger. It indeed makes them closer. God will admit them in His mercy; God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Come on guys. Can you not see that it talks about either teachings or correspondences of the messenger and not contact prayers? confused

9103 Take from their money a charity to purify them and develop them with it, and teach them; for your teaching is a tranquility for them; and God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

1087 And We inspired to Moses and his brother ?You shall seek out assemblies for your people in Egypt; and have your assemblies to be a "role model" and be mindful of the lesson/teaching and give good news to the believers.?

1187 They said ?O Shu?ayb, does your teaching/lesson order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!?

I am confused how you can argue that it means anything else? Perhaps correspondence, but that does still not make a ritualistic prayer out of it!

11113 And do not lean towards those who have wronged else you will incur the Fire; and you will not have besides God any allies, and you will not be victorious.
11114 And mindfully focus on the teaching of the day and by the near part of the night the good deeds take away the bad. This is a regard to those who pay attention.

1429 Hell is where they will burn, what a miserable place to settle.
1430 And they made to God equals in order that they may misguide from His path. Say ?Enjoy, for your destiny is to the Fire.?
1431 Say to My servants who believe, that they should be mindful of the teaching, and spend from what provisions We granted them secretly and openly, before a Day comes when there is no trade therein, nor will there be any friends.

1773 And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
1774 And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to lean towards them a little bit.
1775 Then, We would have made you taste double the retribution in this life and double the retribution in death. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.
1776 And they nearly intimidated you so they could drive you out of the land. But then they would have been destroyed shortly after you were gone.
1777 Such was the way of those whom We had sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.
1778 AND BE MINDFUL OF THE LESSON till the setting of the sun; to the murkiness of the night; and the recitation at dawn - the recitation at dawn is witnessed.
1779 And from the night, as an addition, you shall reflect upon it for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you an example that is praiseworthy.

17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in your teaching, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.

1931 ?And He has made me blessed wherever I am, and He has charged me with the teaching and purification as long as I am alive.?

1955 And he used to instruct his family to the teaching and purification, and his Lord was pleased with him.

1959 Then, generations came after them who lost the teaching, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.

2012 ?I am your Lord, so take off your slippers; you are in the holy valley Tuwa.?
2013 ?And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired.?
2014 ?I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and be mindful the teaching/lesson for My sake.?

20132 And instruct your family to the teaching, and be patient for it. We do not ask you for provision, for We provide for you. And the ending will be for righteousness.

2441 Do you not see that everything in the heavens and the earth glorifies God? Even the birds in formation, each knows its teaching and its glorification. And God is fully aware of everything they do.

2945 Relay what is inspired to you of the decree and be mindful of the teaching, for the teaching prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the regard for God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

3031 Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and be mindful of the teaching and do not be of the polytheists.
3032 From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.

3117 ?O my son, be mindful of the teaching and advocate righteousness and prohibit vice, and be patient to what befalls you. These are the most honorable traits.?

3343 He is the One who teaches you along with His angels, to bring you out of darkness and into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.

What the heck do you think otherwise that they do? Chat on the phone?

3356 God and His angels teach the prophet. O you who believe, you shall be taught by him, and comply completely.

3529 Surely, those who relay the decree of God and are mindful of the teaching, and spend secretly and openly from what We have provided them, they are seeking a trade that can never lose.

7443-46 They said ?We were not as those who were taughtand we did not feed the poor person and we used to participate with those who spoke falsehood and we used to deny the Day of Recompense.?

1082 Therefore, teach about your Lord and sacrifice.

I feel I am just repeating myself, but at least I brought better translated passages. Will you keep argue that salat still means "contact prayer" and that this is all that God ever thinks about? In that case this is the very first thing that God opens the recitation with. ESTABLISH PRAYER, OH YEAH. (AND ALSO FIVE TIMES PER DAY. AND IF YOU DO NOT YOU FOLLOW YOUR OWN DESIRES).

Come on, be sensible people and check the root and how it occurs, because all passages above contain that word in them.

Have faith

Mazhar

I feel I am just repeating myself, but at least I brought better translated passages. Will you keep argue that salat still means "contact prayer" and that this is all that God ever thinks about? In that case this is the very first thing that God opens the recitation with. ESTABLISH PRAYER, OH YEAH. (AND ALSO FIVE TIMES PER DAY. AND IF YOU DO NOT YOU FOLLOW YOUR OWN DESIRES).

Come on, be sensible people and check the root and how it occurs, because all passages above contain that word in them.

984 And do not speak for any of them who have died, nor stand at their grave. They have opposed God and His messenger and died while they were wicked.

Only 984 with words "do not speak"; presuming do not speak praising/appreciating------and Not do not speak ill.....seems near to the basic perception of Root.

. Basic perception infolded is to praise and magnify; express commendation, or wish blessings upon the one who is revered; or to appreciate someone. Ibn Faris in his classical Lexicon had quoted a verse of a poem of pre-Qur'aan period to highlight one aspect of this Root regards invoking blessings

Learned Professor Toshihiko Izutsu in his book "God and Man in the Qur'aan" quoted it in his study on the concept of this Root

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00024.%20Salat%20Suad%20Lam%20Waw/024.Sa2.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00024.%20Salat%20Suad%20Lam%20Waw/024.Sa3.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00024.%20Salat%20Suad%20Lam%20Waw/024.Sa4.gif

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Thanks for the ideas. It shines a better light on this. But I still not agree that the case of aquyum assalat would be a scenario of magnification of God in a prayer-like event. That the prophet is somehow enjoined from blessing the dead in the gathering for a deceased person is clear in the passage. But in the literal meaning of to yasal (bless) people is by teaching them, i..e teaching them because there is not other way. Also you can understand it as the prophet should not use them as example in his enlightenment or preaching.

And with Shuayb how would it be interpreted if his blessing forbids them from serving their statues or do with their money as they please. Obviously the prophet is enlightening the people of right vs. wrong. In other words you can say that he teaches.

Enlightenment could thus be a formidable interpretation of the word. But sadly for you, who advocate prayers, it still does not move away from the notion that in the case of the context for most part speak of teaching as a result of being enlightened. You cannot avoid the fact that it is about knowing about God, being enlightened.

Have faith

Mazhar

Peace,

Thanks for the ideas. It shines a better light on this. But I still not agree that the case of aquyum assalat would be a scenario of magnification of God in a prayer-like event. That the prophet is somehow enjoined from blessing the dead in the gathering for a deceased person is clear in the passage. But in the literal meaning of to yasal (bless) people is by teaching them, i..e teaching them because there is not other way. Also you can understand it as the prophet should not use them as example in his enlightenment or preaching.

And with Shuayb how would it be interpreted if his blessing forbids them from serving their statues or do with their money as they please. Obviously the prophet is enlightening the people of right vs. wrong. In other words you can say that he teaches.

Enlightenment could thus be a formidable interpretation of the word. But sadly for you, who advocate prayers, it still does not move away from the notion that in the case of the context for most part speak of teaching as a result of being enlightened. You cannot avoid the fact that it is about knowing about God, being enlightened.

Have faith

What were they doing and not agreeing to desist? Do you think it was anything else than this

Worshipping their gods, magnification of their gods, gathering before them to demonstrate their allegiance to them. This was their salat.

The Salat of the elevated Messenger was different, it was protocol of allegiance to Allah alone.

When one does not wish to give a second thought to whatever he believes, simple and straight forward things seem non-comprehensible. This is what they confessed
They replied "O Sho'aib, we do not comprehend it, most of it what you say to us;And indeed we consider you weaker amongst us;
However, had it not been the consideration of your clan-tribe we would have certainly stoned you to death;
And you have no dominant authority upon us."

Enligtenment comes only after understanding.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

They were not willing to accept it and thus they were not purified. He tried to enlighten them.

Be whole

Mazhar

2240 The ones who were driven out of their homes without justice, except that they said ?Our Lord is God!? And if it were not for God defending the people against themselves, then many places of gathering, and markets, and lessons and observant of the regard for God's name, would have been suppressed. God will give victory to those who support Him. God is Powerful, Noble.

Four things are mentioned as Proxy Subject/Ergative of Passive verb, it were according to above

many places of gathering ---would have been suppressed;
and markets ---would have been suppressed;
and lessons ----would have been suppressed;
and observant of the regard for gods name -----would have been suppressed;

Prefixed particle of emphasis/apodosis for Laola. Verb perfect, feminine evident by feminine marker. It is Passive verb. All its Proxy subjects are Plural feminine nouns.

Did you find in any classical or modern dictionaries that it means suppressed?
Dictionaries defines its meaning as to wreck, to demolish.
Can we stretch wreck and demolish to take it as supressing?

Demolish relates to about buildings and structures etc. The preposition Fee used for these four denotes "Rest in a place or during a time, and motion into a place. This signification is then transferred to the relation subsisting between any two things, the one of which is regarded as the place in which the other is, or happens, or into which it goes or is put."
Linguists say it is to be used to indicate space and time.

Can we reconcile?

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

It was just an experimental translation with little regard for language. You are likely right that it refers to places where the actions described are performed. Thanks for the information. And you are likely right that they would be destroyed if it was not for God.

I still do not rely that much on dictionaries, though.

Have faith

Mazhar

Peace,

It was just an experimental translation with little regard for language. You are likely right that it refers to places where the actions described are performed. Thanks for the information. And you are likely right that they would be destroyed if it was not for God.

I still do not rely that much on dictionaries, though.

Have faith

Yes this is the cause and effect. For academic translation of source language text into target language text, one has to abide by the lexicons and rules of grammar of source language. That is also the criteria to evaluate the accuracy of translator.
"Experimental translation" seems addition of a new theory to the exisiting theories of translation.

But you have not yet highlighted the conveniences and liabilities of this type of translation. It is necessary because understanding the liabilities of study types offers insight into the validity of researchers' conclusions.

You say "experimental translation" requires little regard for the language. This means a different perception is preconceived and it is attempted to be associated with words of an Ayah to validate preconceveid idea idea in the eyes of readers.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

I apologize for an inaccurate experimental translation. I had not spent time with the passage beforehand and with the word I translated suppressed and I also misread the verb to begin with.

Experimental translation means "daring" to try philosophical approaches to the language itself to find that something is wrong. It does not go without careful cross-checking though and it is a time-consuming work despite how careless and irresponsible it may seem. And experimental translation can also be half-finished ones that are not grammatically correct, but the gist is still correct. But you were right that my take on 2240 was slightly wrong, it is likely supposed to be destroyed rather than suppressed. I cannot be entirely sure before I truly come to a careful analysis of this passage. I just touched the surface now.

By little regard I meant postponing the analysis of the circumstantial discourse, because my focus at the time was to mass-test salat on a wider application, and not necessarily best the individual verses' interpretation. Salat is a very high-importance issue, as you may have noticed, rather than absolutely accurate translations on such as 2240 which my erroneous translation would not make much difference in regard of disinformation anyway. There is no intention of spreading disinformation and if the passage that I work with would try to teach something different or bad then I would think before I posted.

It is good, however, that you gave some input on 2240. It is supposed to be a critical analysis of the text and not just blindly be through with it.

My own careful translation of the entire book called Qur'an has just come into some passages of chapter two so far. It is an exhausting work and neither dictionaries nor grammar books can be trusted (fully) and sometimes of no help at all. It is hard to translate such an abused discourse that I suspect the person who tried to interpret it, years after the prophet, was ignorant and failed to correctly interpret it at all. Suspected are the same clowns that wrote the so-called "hadith" books of Muhammad, and they also added diacritical marks and improperly added verse numbering. If I followed grammar books and dictionaries, then of course it would be much easier to translate it, but then I would simply repeat the same mistake and I could as well just skip doing it. I mostly focus on words with much stigma around them, such as salat, zakat, nikkah, sajda, rukuh and other words with "religious" connotation. They are given very imaginative and "magical" meanings just because they are involved with God and the sacred. Right now I mostly focus on "unstigmatize" them, to bring them down to Earth and what they really mean.

Have faith

Mazhar

If I followed grammar books and dictionaries, then of course it would be much easier to translate it, but then I would simply repeat the same mistake and I could as well just skip doing it.

The ground fact is opposite to it. Almost all earlier translations little cared for the morphological and syntactic aspect of the language, although a very detailed work in these areas was available. They even substituted the Arabic words of Qur'aan to render a translation of their choice, not of the Book. Raiba was substituted with Shakka to translate it as "doubt" despite knowing that La of genus negation can't be used with Shakka.

Putting asside the grammar morphology and syntax of Arabic will yield anything except the translation of Qur'aan.

I mostly focus on words with much stigma around them, such as salat, zakat, nikkah, sajda, rukuh and other words with "religious" connotation. They are given very imaginative and "magical" meanings just because they are involved with God and the sacred...

Very imaginative and "magical" meanings can go with a fictional text or poetry. Qur'aan claims it is neither fictional nor poetry. It is a non-fiction discourse. And please remember in Imperative, Injunction, Law giving sentences, never ever a word is used which can have immaginative or "magical" connotation.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Putting asside the grammar morphology and syntax of Arabic will yield anything except the translation of Qur'aan.

I will keep that on my mind. In my translation I am very careful with the affixes and other grammar discoveries I make. Interestingly it is nearly another book than the traditionally inferred one. The biggest progress is the minimization of multiple meanings of words. In many cases I have narrowed their meaning down to simply one. Many of the additional meanings of words create purely fictitious scenarios. Of course for a translation you have to find a few different words to use to describe the word because the two languages cannot be used in the exact same manner. And sometimes you have to paraphrase the whole phrase because it is idiomatic. "Buy something for a cheap price", is one of the idioms I have found. It is often interpreted very literally, paying little attention to the fact it is an idiom.

Qur'aan claims it is neither fictional nor poetry.

It is not. Yet people create all kinds of weirdness from their wild imagination of the interpretation of it. And words are stigmatized, given an exaggerated meaning.

Have faith

Mazhar

The biggest progress is the minimization of multiple meanings of words. In many cases I have narrowed their meaning down to simply one.

This is but an error and a wrong approach. Please just read about "types of meanings of a word", you might get a book about it by google search. Like English, same is the phenomenon in Arabic, but more precise and succicnt because of different types of nouns and verbs, each of which will carry a specific meaning, despite being from the same root. One needs to put in the translation all the additional meanings added in a word by change of vowelling, prefixes, infixes and suffixes alongwith basic meanings of original consonants.

Mazhar

95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent and they are mindful of the lesson/teaching and become purified, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Where are you people? Do you still believe in prayer for salat? Or otherwise just kill like maniacs, kill kill kill!!!

Please re-read your quote and you might find it self contradictory. You have killed the polyteists wherever you found them. Then how will they repent and become mindful of the lesson?

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

This is but an error and a wrong approach.

That is your opinion. I find that out from the root of a word of Arabic it has very few alternative meanings. Of course the affix system causes words to receive slightly different meanings depending on perspective, but the original "mental image" always remains the same.

Please just read about "types of meanings of a word", you might get a book about it by google search.

That is because there are people like you who have conjectured a lot.

Like English, same is the phenomenon in Arabic, but more precise and succicnt because of different types of nouns and verbs, each of which will carry a specific meaning, despite being from the same root.

It is not very prevalent in Arabic compared to English, if at all. The words work their way out of a root which is a combination of letters forming a mental image of action or form. But they stay around the root's meaning even if you add affixes or make a compound word.

The cases I have encountered where they are allegedly different in meaning have been errors in interpretation. Deliberate or not I do not know.

Please re-read your quote and you might find it self contradictory. You have killed the polyteists wherever you found them. Then how will they repent and become mindful of the lesson?

It could be further contradiction within the scripture. I was just basing mine on current translations. But if they repent and become mindfully observing what they have been enlightened about then let them be. What is hard to understand? Cannot you read the gist even if you do not have a entirely accurate translation?

Rest assured I will eventually carefully go through the passage and correct it to the best of my ability.

What seems more dogmatic and zealous, and thus unrighteous? Forcing them to obey the commandments, which is so they are not treating people with oppression and injustice or force them to observe a ritualistic prayer?

You have killed the polyteists

It did not say that you have killed them, just a word to kill them. I do not understand why you are to hooked up on details? It quite easy logic, you kill them as long as they do not repent and follow the way of God, which is no oppression and injustice. I have my suspicions about the word used to kill, but as long I have no better alternative then it is kill. It does not cause any zealotry here with the understanding of holding to the enlightenment of God anyway, because you are to kill them when they are not living in the way of God. Goodness by friend.

The faith of God is about being one with God (faith) and be/do good. It falls down to that if you contract all commandments down to a watchword.

Have faith

good_logic

Peace Man Of Faith.

Please allow me to add the word "believe" that goes with doing good.

I know you talk a lot about doing good, we are in agreement there.

However to "believe" requires taking what GOD says seriously and following His instructions/commands without hesitation...

Sometimes we need to really be sure about our own opinions/deductions/understanding...

For example your explanation about"Shuaib" verse,I do not agree with, my understanding of it is straight forward and does not contradict "salat" .
Shuaib s people are telling him are your "Sallawat" are instructing/telling you that we should leave serving/worshiping how our parents do .i.e Perhaps He was devoting his "sallawat" to GOD Alone and they were not?
Then they add "" we will do with our provision/earnings..what we want.." this bit is to do with "zakat" and not "sallawat".
As you know GOD mentions "salat" and "zakat " together many times in Qoran.
Yes and I know that "zakat" can also mean different things in different verses!
If Shuaib message to his people was similar to most messengers ,then he was correcting their deviations from polytheism to GOD Alone?
There is no issue there?
Of course that is my understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mazhar

That is your opinion. I find that out from the root of a word of Arabic it has very few alternative meanings. Of course the affix system causes words to receive slightly different meanings depending on perspective, but the original "mental image" always remains the same.

I keep pointing out
Arabic words stem from Roots. Each Root has specific, defined, distinct, conspicuous, apparent perception folded in it . Words, originating from these Roots on various well defined patterns-moulds-structuring frames retain the original perception infolded in the Root, dominantly and conspicuously, with additional meanings and connotation, shades and colours added by the peculiar pattern-placing of vowels-syllabification and addition of consonants. Moreover, relational aspect of the semantic field will also influence and add connotations to the word. Hence; the meanings, perception and connotation of an Arabic Word is the composite whole of the perception infolded in its Root, coupled with meanings associated with its pattern, and its relation to the semantic field where it is used. It signifies that the basic meanings of a Root and word do not exhaust when they are used in a different semantic field, relational area, while necessarily retaining the base meanings.