Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
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2240 The ones who were driven out of their homes without justice, except that they said ?Our Lord is God!? And if it were not for God defending the people against themselves, then many places of gathering, and markets, and lessons and observant of the regard for God's name, would have been suppressed. God will give victory to those who support Him. God is Powerful, Noble.
Four things are mentioned as Proxy Subject/Ergative of Passive verb, it were according to above
- many places of gathering ---would have been suppressed;
- and markets ---would have been suppressed;
- and lessons ----would have been suppressed;
- and observant of the regard for gods name -----would have been suppressed;
Prefixed particle of emphasis/apodosis for Laola. Verb perfect, feminine evident by feminine marker. It is Passive verb. All its Proxy subjects are Plural feminine nouns.
Did you find in any classical or modern dictionaries that it means suppressed?
Dictionaries defines its meaning as to wreck, to demolish.
Can we stretch wreck and demolish to take it as supressing?Demolish relates to about buildings and structures etc. The preposition Fee used for these four denotes "Rest in a place or during a time, and motion into a place. This signification is then transferred to the relation subsisting between any two things, the one of which is regarded as the place in which the other is, or happens, or into which it goes or is put."
Linguists say it is to be used to indicate space and time.Can we reconcile?
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Peace,
It was just an experimental translation with little regard for language. You are likely right that it refers to places where the actions described are performed. Thanks for the information. And you are likely right that they would be destroyed if it was not for God.
I still do not rely that much on dictionaries, though.
Have faith
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Peace,
It was just an experimental translation with little regard for language. You are likely right that it refers to places where the actions described are performed. Thanks for the information. And you are likely right that they would be destroyed if it was not for God.
I still do not rely that much on dictionaries, though.
Have faith
Yes this is the cause and effect. For academic translation of source language text into target language text, one has to abide by the lexicons and rules of grammar of source language. That is also the criteria to evaluate the accuracy of translator.
"Experimental translation" seems addition of a new theory to the exisiting theories of translation.But you have not yet highlighted the conveniences and liabilities of this type of translation. It is necessary because understanding the liabilities of study types offers insight into the validity of researchers' conclusions.
You say "experimental translation" requires little regard for the language. This means a different perception is preconceived and it is attempted to be associated with words of an Ayah to validate preconceveid idea idea in the eyes of readers.
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Peace,
I apologize for an inaccurate experimental translation. I had not spent time with the passage beforehand and with the word I translated suppressed and I also misread the verb to begin with.
Experimental translation means "daring" to try philosophical approaches to the language itself to find that something is wrong. It does not go without careful cross-checking though and it is a time-consuming work despite how careless and irresponsible it may seem. And experimental translation can also be half-finished ones that are not grammatically correct, but the gist is still correct. But you were right that my take on 2240 was slightly wrong, it is likely supposed to be destroyed rather than suppressed. I cannot be entirely sure before I truly come to a careful analysis of this passage. I just touched the surface now.
By little regard I meant postponing the analysis of the circumstantial discourse, because my focus at the time was to mass-test salat on a wider application, and not necessarily best the individual verses' interpretation. Salat is a very high-importance issue, as you may have noticed, rather than absolutely accurate translations on such as 2240 which my erroneous translation would not make much difference in regard of disinformation anyway. There is no intention of spreading disinformation and if the passage that I work with would try to teach something different or bad then I would think before I posted.
It is good, however, that you gave some input on 2240. It is supposed to be a critical analysis of the text and not just blindly be through with it.
My own careful translation of the entire book called Qur'an has just come into some passages of chapter two so far. It is an exhausting work and neither dictionaries nor grammar books can be trusted (fully) and sometimes of no help at all. It is hard to translate such an abused discourse that I suspect the person who tried to interpret it, years after the prophet, was ignorant and failed to correctly interpret it at all. Suspected are the same clowns that wrote the so-called "hadith" books of Muhammad, and they also added diacritical marks and improperly added verse numbering. If I followed grammar books and dictionaries, then of course it would be much easier to translate it, but then I would simply repeat the same mistake and I could as well just skip doing it. I mostly focus on words with much stigma around them, such as salat, zakat, nikkah, sajda, rukuh and other words with "religious" connotation. They are given very imaginative and "magical" meanings just because they are involved with God and the sacred. Right now I mostly focus on "unstigmatize" them, to bring them down to Earth and what they really mean.
Have faith
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If I followed grammar books and dictionaries, then of course it would be much easier to translate it, but then I would simply repeat the same mistake and I could as well just skip doing it.
The ground fact is opposite to it. Almost all earlier translations little cared for the morphological and syntactic aspect of the language, although a very detailed work in these areas was available. They even substituted the Arabic words of Qur'aan to render a translation of their choice, not of the Book. Raiba was substituted with Shakka to translate it as "doubt" despite knowing that La of genus negation can't be used with Shakka.
Putting asside the grammar morphology and syntax of Arabic will yield anything except the translation of Qur'aan.
I mostly focus on words with much stigma around them, such as salat, zakat, nikkah, sajda, rukuh and other words with "religious" connotation. They are given very imaginative and "magical" meanings just because they are involved with God and the sacred...
Very imaginative and "magical" meanings can go with a fictional text or poetry. Qur'aan claims it is neither fictional nor poetry. It is a non-fiction discourse. And please remember in Imperative, Injunction, Law giving sentences, never ever a word is used which can have immaginative or "magical" connotation.
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Peace,
Putting asside the grammar morphology and syntax of Arabic will yield anything except the translation of Qur'aan.
I will keep that on my mind. In my translation I am very careful with the affixes and other grammar discoveries I make. Interestingly it is nearly another book than the traditionally inferred one. The biggest progress is the minimization of multiple meanings of words. In many cases I have narrowed their meaning down to simply one. Many of the additional meanings of words create purely fictitious scenarios. Of course for a translation you have to find a few different words to use to describe the word because the two languages cannot be used in the exact same manner. And sometimes you have to paraphrase the whole phrase because it is idiomatic. "Buy something for a cheap price", is one of the idioms I have found. It is often interpreted very literally, paying little attention to the fact it is an idiom.
Qur'aan claims it is neither fictional nor poetry.
It is not. Yet people create all kinds of weirdness from their wild imagination of the interpretation of it. And words are stigmatized, given an exaggerated meaning.
Have faith
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The biggest progress is the minimization of multiple meanings of words. In many cases I have narrowed their meaning down to simply one.
This is but an error and a wrong approach. Please just read about "types of meanings of a word", you might get a book about it by google search. Like English, same is the phenomenon in Arabic, but more precise and succicnt because of different types of nouns and verbs, each of which will carry a specific meaning, despite being from the same root. One needs to put in the translation all the additional meanings added in a word by change of vowelling, prefixes, infixes and suffixes alongwith basic meanings of original consonants.
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95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent and they are mindful of the lesson/teaching and become purified, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Where are you people? Do you still believe in prayer for salat? Or otherwise just kill like maniacs, kill kill kill!!!
Please re-read your quote and you might find it self contradictory. You have killed the polyteists wherever you found them. Then how will they repent and become mindful of the lesson?
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Peace,
This is but an error and a wrong approach.
That is your opinion. I find that out from the root of a word of Arabic it has very few alternative meanings. Of course the affix system causes words to receive slightly different meanings depending on perspective, but the original "mental image" always remains the same.
Please just read about "types of meanings of a word", you might get a book about it by google search.
That is because there are people like you who have conjectured a lot.
Like English, same is the phenomenon in Arabic, but more precise and succicnt because of different types of nouns and verbs, each of which will carry a specific meaning, despite being from the same root.
It is not very prevalent in Arabic compared to English, if at all. The words work their way out of a root which is a combination of letters forming a mental image of action or form. But they stay around the root's meaning even if you add affixes or make a compound word.
The cases I have encountered where they are allegedly different in meaning have been errors in interpretation. Deliberate or not I do not know.
Please re-read your quote and you might find it self contradictory. You have killed the polyteists wherever you found them. Then how will they repent and become mindful of the lesson?
It could be further contradiction within the scripture. I was just basing mine on current translations. But if they repent and become mindfully observing what they have been enlightened about then let them be. What is hard to understand? Cannot you read the gist even if you do not have a entirely accurate translation?
Rest assured I will eventually carefully go through the passage and correct it to the best of my ability.
What seems more dogmatic and zealous, and thus unrighteous? Forcing them to obey the commandments, which is so they are not treating people with oppression and injustice or force them to observe a ritualistic prayer?
You have killed the polyteists
It did not say that you have killed them, just a word to kill them. I do not understand why you are to hooked up on details? It quite easy logic, you kill them as long as they do not repent and follow the way of God, which is no oppression and injustice. I have my suspicions about the word used to kill, but as long I have no better alternative then it is kill. It does not cause any zealotry here with the understanding of holding to the enlightenment of God anyway, because you are to kill them when they are not living in the way of God. Goodness by friend.
The faith of God is about being one with God (faith) and be/do good. It falls down to that if you contract all commandments down to a watchword.
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please allow me to add the word "believe" that goes with doing good.
I know you talk a lot about doing good, we are in agreement there.
However to "believe" requires taking what GOD says seriously and following His instructions/commands without hesitation...
Sometimes we need to really be sure about our own opinions/deductions/understanding...
For example your explanation about"Shuaib" verse,I do not agree with, my understanding of it is straight forward and does not contradict "salat" .
Shuaib s people are telling him are your "Sallawat" are instructing/telling you that we should leave serving/worshiping how our parents do .i.e Perhaps He was devoting his "sallawat" to GOD Alone and they were not?
Then they add "" we will do with our provision/earnings..what we want.." this bit is to do with "zakat" and not "sallawat".
As you know GOD mentions "salat" and "zakat " together many times in Qoran.
Yes and I know that "zakat" can also mean different things in different verses!
If Shuaib message to his people was similar to most messengers ,then he was correcting their deviations from polytheism to GOD Alone?
There is no issue there?
Of course that is my understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
That is your opinion. I find that out from the root of a word of Arabic it has very few alternative meanings. Of course the affix system causes words to receive slightly different meanings depending on perspective, but the original "mental image" always remains the same.
I keep pointing out
Arabic words stem from Roots. Each Root has specific, defined, distinct, conspicuous, apparent perception folded in it . Words, originating from these Roots on various well defined patterns-moulds-structuring frames retain the original perception infolded in the Root, dominantly and conspicuously, with additional meanings and connotation, shades and colours added by the peculiar pattern-placing of vowels-syllabification and addition of consonants. Moreover, relational aspect of the semantic field will also influence and add connotations to the word. Hence; the meanings, perception and connotation of an Arabic Word is the composite whole of the perception infolded in its Root, coupled with meanings associated with its pattern, and its relation to the semantic field where it is used. It signifies that the basic meanings of a Root and word do not exhaust when they are used in a different semantic field, relational area, while necessarily retaining the base meanings. -
Peace Mazhar,
Okay okay. Thanks for your information.
Be whole
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Peace good logic.
Thanks for your input, and I am verily not intending to be arrogant in my replies. But regarding iman I have also my own understanding.
I know you talk a lot about doing good, we are in agreement there.
Thank God we are.
However to "believe" requires taking what GOD says seriously and following His instructions/commands without hesitation...
I have a slightly different perspective on the phenomenon called belief/faith which is referred to in Arabic as IMAN. The Commandments are a "tool" to get faith, a way of purification and when we are purified we are whole. In fact, the word IMAN could be regarded as being whole to the Oneness that is God. All this purification that we do by adhering to the decree is done so that we are whole with God, that we are MUMINS. It is a quite advanced topic actually, and I suppose you both have to be open-minded and not so critical about it.
I suppose you ever heard the expression; "Become one with nature", it is much so with this too except that it is with The Singularity that is God and the creation is its mass. KAFIROON are anomalies/impurities within the "sphere" so to say.
What we actually build up is purity to be whole and not an anomaly to God, like a distortion or corruption.
And I do NOT, ever, hesitate to follow the commands of my Master and your Master so long that they are truthful to the decree given by God.
Sometimes we need to really be sure about our own opinions/deductions/understanding...
This is why I work day and night interpreting the discourse from cover to cover as of lately as to minimize my own guessing of what it means. The key is to make sure that every word, even verbs without substance, are interpreted as intended by the original author, i.e. God. There is a lot of words that have come clear to me since I started researching.
And the reason why I have trouble trusting the traditional interpreters is because of this passage
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
The problem did not end in discarding the lies about Muhammad and idolatry of the prophet. You have to discarded the faulty inferences based on that hadith too in the interpretation of the scripture that is flawed by that same logic. If one studies you can clearly see that the interpretation is tainted by the understanding from hadith.
For example your explanation about"Shuaib" verse,I do not agree with, my understanding of it is straight forward and does not contradict "salat" .
Shuaib s people are telling him are your "Sallawat" are instructing/telling you that we should leave serving/worshiping how our parents do .i.e Perhaps He was devoting his "sallawat" to GOD Alone and they were not?In a way SALAT for Shuayb here has been communication with God, and he is preaching to his people that they should be enlightened by him about God. It is a kind of correspondence that comes relayed by him to them. It is however not referred to a monotonous ritual with no (apparent) purpose (other than perhaps glorification to God). None of the cases within the recitation that is called Qur'an refer to a ritualistic prayer however, even if such a one is absolutely not forbidden, although the best prostration is done with the heart.
If Shuaib message to his people was similar to most messengers ,then he was correcting their deviations from polytheism to GOD Alone?
There is no issue there?No. What he did there we can probably agree on. But the point is that the SALAT word (derivative) is used in the passage.
Thanks for your communication and I hope God will have you purified.
Be whole
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Peace muslims,
Each knows its LESSON (teaching/instruction). You see they already alem (know) it in the phrase.
This is the breakthrough in interpretation of salat that I have been working on for several months.
Perhaps what you've translated 'salat' as the 'teaching/instruction' have connection with the whole system of study that I've been incorporated in the Muslim Atheism. . . ie. It is not only the 'teaching/instruction' but the 'instruction' is referring to the whole set of guidance for 'read, refine, practice and wisdom' . . "the study system". . . the theological system.
This is the primary objective and tasks of the Messenger, ie. why he was sent. . .
To reform them by 'teaching' the 'theological system' and "Although they were before in clear error" (62.2)
Quran = Theology
ie. manual to study and understand the signs of justly balanced in life and the universe etc.and it got nothing to do with religion
The Formula
It is He who has sent among the unlettered
a Messenger from themselves- reciting to them His verses and
- purifying them and
- teaching them the Book
- and wisdom
although they were before in clear error
(622)
The system of study
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-3CjIaaUA9rA/U-dfRMn9AAI/AAAAAAAABCA/nP0RNHEuTQ8/s1600/formulas.png
The theological system .
This is the whole system of guidance from the Quran and Sunnatullah.
The Quran is the manual for becoming a Successor (Khalifa). Oneness.
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-7WgxzgsoC-o/U-j9lAlsh7I/AAAAAAAABGE/4E_hwcgCVsk/s1600/theology.png
Islam is Free Will - Freedom
http//1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ov7n6emoRa8/U-j_TIHqfbI/AAAAAAAABGY/clrljg92e54/s1600/study.png
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Peace,
It has been interesting perusing this thread, especially regarding salat.
I have some questions.
In accepting the language of quran being dependent on usage by Arabic speakers, how does one decide whether to use the way it is spoken today or in the 7th century?
If it is the way it is spoken today, then the question arises as to why God's message should be subject to the whims of how people cause their language to evolve.
If it is the way it was spoken in the 7th century, then the question arises as to how we can ascertain 7th century usage today.
I would submit that the key to acceptable translation is consistency of usage by the author.
I look forward to some responses before commenting further on roots and derivations as well as the topic of salat.
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Spiritual harmony be with you,
Since I last wrote on this thread my knowledge of salat and many other Arabic words has improved dramatically and I could provide better information regarding it and other words. Kafar is not really opponent as I suggested but a deluded person, someone without foundation. Salaat(eh) means literally "Perception that be character thereby" which obviously must be put in a context. I can explain in a post tomorrow because now I am tapping on a smartphone and near bedtime. But basically I can say it means to stay in the light and not lose the perception of what is good. It often goes together with the zakaat(eh) word, for a reason.
Be of one with God
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Peace MoF,
Before declaring what salat means it may be worthwhile considering that the root in many cases is not , but rather .
Imraan
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Yes. But that it says as a root is because the third letter determines "cause-of-effect" of the Arabic word (just as in ketab the third letter implies cause-person-BY referring to first part of the word but since in salawa it is a conjunction it refers to "external" words). The root means "perceive definite meaning it needs a subject to refer to for description. If it was only it would merely mean "behold (something) much like means express (something), literally "express that" just as hence is "perceive that".
Hence the answer with the praying at the evil man's funeral may in fact rather refer to "attend" using the form of .
The salat(eh) word with insight actually consists of the letters but the last two form a combined letter, i.e. , but while making a deep analysis they must be separated. The alef (ا after gives the "cause-of-effect" which is referred back on oneself basically BE character thereby (which can be understood to mean to be according to the hints of how a man or woman should be found in the narration).
I yet have not put myself in front of the computer and yet tap on my smartphone so to make a better elaboration has to wait until then.
But I would urge you to understand that aqum assalat is to keep yourself and your perception focused on yourself and not lose the track.
Be of one with God
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Peace MoF
Here is a link to an initial research I did on roots a while ago. It may be of interest to you.
https//www.dropbox.com/s/tc4bxpg5he0m82p/The%20%D8%B5%20%D9%84%20Roots.pdf?dl=0Imraan
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SALAT - A return to put SALAT under the microscope
Spiritual harmony be upon you, 1CELOSTNOWFOUND
Now I took the time to boot up the computer and sit in front of it.
I briefly read the document you linked to. It is therefore quite much following the suggestion I had regarding the structure of Arabic words. The third letter generally suggests "cause-of-effect" as I call it here. in this case is one morpheme which causes the word to form the meaning of "definitely perceive", while the third letter, dependable upon what you like to say, takes a varying letter (to make a cause-of-effect) as you suggested yourself through your document.
Let me refer to your document and the examples you put forth by explaining the Arabic
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The examples you suggested seem to point that it means to "make visible", take this for example "We cleared the grain that was mixed with dust, or earth, from the dust, or earth, by pouring water upon it", but rather than as the "Lane's Lexion" suggests it rather means that now the grain is (clearly) perceptible because you cleansed it from dust or earth. The symbol indicates a mental image of perception, and it is also a reason why the same symbol is used in the Arabic word for 'eye' since Arabic words are descriptive in form and it indicates 'perception'.
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I do not entirely agree with the Lexion's definition of the word, but it means someone is witted, i.e. quick to react because the perception is strong. If is was as an attribute before a word for "God" then it would mean that the person is strong/determined in its perception of God.
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Could be understood as that a person is seeing what is good. The symbol seems to refer to 'good'. This person has a perception of what is good.
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The condition of being . The symbol refers to condition/state, and reflects upon the first part of the word since the last letter in formation of the base word gives "cause-of-effect". Perhaps "steadfast" or something could be derived from the word, or having a clear and firm possessed vision on how to perceive the world.
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"The ass drove together his she-asses, and made them to take the way .", as in the example this an interesting example using a donkey. Simply replace the donkey with God or the image you like to follow instead and you know what "salawa" means (and thus salat(eh) as well which has the subject to thereon follow in the word structure itself).
Salaat(eh) is thus not simply one word but in fact at least four words in the same compound Sal ' a ' t ' eh, but one who knows the truth actually know that there are no real roots but the true root is the on letter level.
Hence it explains my extremely literal interpretation of it as "Perceive definite BE character thereby". Please put that "alternative" interpretation into the context of the scripture called Qur'an and you shall see that it becomes clearer whenever it occurs. And you are rid of rituals even while being faithful to the original text, because you perceive what the scripture actually talks about. Is that not wonderful?
Red Gives outcome of the first two letters and hence linking it to the following words in the compound, i.e. BE. Alef as a letter means no less than the condition of 'being'. Perceive definite BE, character thereby, with thereby (kind of object pronoun) to be a reflexive letter referring to what has just been spoken of contextually.
The last page of your PDF file I have trouble agreeing with completely.
As for I cannot agree that it means to burn
as a phrase with the word you suggested means to "feel the fire". refers to as I call it (whom depending on context) while refers to thereby and following word.
One must also remember that all the referred words starting with ought to have somewhat similar meaning. Perceive can also commonly be referred to "feel" or "sense".
Probably one can translate 430's portion involving the word, , as "Soon he will perceive/feel a fire" (except that I must research more on to really make out that it clearly refers to fire because it could theoretically mean "what is the foundation".
Be of one with God
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