What happens when the Thief Steals Again?

Mazhar

This is a very crucial question for Quranists/Hadith-rejectors.

According to Quran, Surah 539 (Bismillah included) the thief, male or female must have their hands cut off. This means a male thief his hand (singular) is cut off and a female thief her hand (singular) is cut off.

Now my question is what if the thief steals a second time? What does the Quran instruct in this regard? The Quran never says to cut of their other hand.

But if for sake of argument you cut off their other hand. What if thief steals again a third time? What then? What does the Pure Quran instruct in that scenario?

Such stupid questions arise when text of Qur'aan is seen blindly or with blurred focus.

Hands in the sentence is plural. In possessive prhases the Noon is dropped. It did not say cut his and her one hand, two hands but used the multiple hands. Do a person has more than two hands? Why plural which refers minimum three? Because it has nothing to do with the physical hands but connections-linkages with people.

And the man when convicted as committer of theft-robbery and the woman when convicted as committer of theft-robbery
thereat you-society-government disassociate the links of both of them by handcuffing-restraining.
This is a proportionate requital from their Sustainer Lord for what they two earned-did.
And Allah the Exalted is the Dominant, the Wise-Knower of otherwise invisible realities.

Handcuffed-restrained sent to the Prison.

Israfeel

Do you not know Arabic grammar?

their hands, its only plural in the sense that its referring to two people, but the hand of each person is singular.

Israfeel

I will try to answer this very crucial question to Ahl-alhadith/alQuraan-rejectors, inshaAllah in the ways it has been asked.
Honestly tell me by witnessing Allah, did you not steal ANYTHING yet? Anything? Please be honest.
If I ask someone to bring me a KG tomatoes and again after a month or so, I asked him again to bring me a KG tomatoes. Do I have to add "OTHER" while saying to him?
Just prove it to me how can a person steals without his both hands... just prove it to me... then inshaAllah I will answer you.

Fear Allah
mmKhan

Are you saying its impossible for someone without hands to steal at all?

Lena

Salaam Israfeel Hadeeth followers have given Islamic justice such a bad name, that ?Islamic Justice? throughout the world has become synonymous with ?Gross Injustice.? Since the haeeth followers have abandoned the Quran en masse (2530), and have been practicing a religion that has nothing to do with Islam, it is no wonder that "Islamic Justice? has become "Satanic Injustice."

The Quran does not advocate ?cutting off? the thief?s hand. Nor does it advocate stoning to death of the adulterers.
?The thief, male or female, you shall cut their hands as a requital for their crime. This is the punishment decreed by God. God is Almighty, Wise.?

The only teacher of the Quran is the Almighty Author of the Quran (551-2). Re the word "cut". This same word is in 1231 in connection with the women who so admired Joseph that they "cut" (marked) their hands. Those women did not "cut off" their hands when they saw Joseph. This show's that the thief?s hand must be "cut" as in ?marked? and not ?cut off.?

Israfeel

Salaam Israfeel Hadeeth followers have given Islamic justice such a bad name, that ?Islamic Justice? throughout the world has become synonymous with ?Gross Injustice.? Since the haeeth followers have abandoned the Quran en masse (2530), and have been practicing a religion that has nothing to do with Islam, it is no wonder that "Islamic Justice? has become "Satanic Injustice."

The Quran does not advocate ?cutting off? the thief?s hand. Nor does it advocate stoning to death of the adulterers.
?The thief, male or female, you shall cut their hands as a requital for their crime. This is the punishment decreed by God. God is Almighty, Wise.?

The only teacher of the Quran is the Almighty Author of the Quran (551-2). Re the word "cut". This same word is in 1231 in connection with the women who so admired Joseph that they "cut" (marked) their hands. Those women did not "cut off" their hands when they saw Joseph. This show's that the thief?s hand must be "cut" as in ?marked? and not ?cut off.?

In other words, someone robs a bank and all he gets is a slap on the wrist (literally)...well a little cut that will heal after a few days. Hahaha what a joke.

Mazhar

Do you not know Arabic grammar?

their hands, its only plural in the sense that its referring to two people, but the hand of each person is singular.

Pl join elementary class for learning Arabic. Don't compound your stupidity. Even by your own misconceived perception it includes four hands of both two.

diamantinehoneybunch

You see, hadithers aka Quran rejectors are full of hate and violence and they really support the blasphemy law created by Shafi'i successors- Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, ibn Majah, Abu Dawud, Nasai etc)

Wiselite

Now my question is what if the thief steals... What does the Quran instruct in this regard? The Quran never says to cut of ... hand.

e.g.1. the house maid or your attendant is found stealing in your home. If we follow Quran, the path of peace.

Cut their service in peaceful manner, or
Forgive him/her, or
They steal because we have not paid them enough, pay more and tell them to seek forgiveness from God.

we, always look solution in Quran for practical application in the path of peace only. This is how we should be following the Quran.

unknownuser

There are good explanations from this sites

http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/cut-off-hands-theft.htm

or from Reformist Translation

DISCUSSION OF 538
The Quran often uses words with more than one applicable and relevant meaning. This leads to verses
that mean two, three, or more things at the same time, verses that make the translator's job exquisitely
difficult.
We come now to such a verse. The verb form we translated as "mark, cut, or cut off" comes from a
root verb -- QaTa'A ? that occurs in the Quran many times. In almost all of its occurrences in the
Quran, this verb means "to sever a relationship" or "to end an act." Only in two instances (1231 and
1250) is this verb clearly used to describe a physical cutting; in another instance (6946), the verb
might possibly be interpreted in that way. A related form of this same verb -- one that implies
repetition or severity of action -- occurs in the Quran seventeen times. This particular form is used to
mean physically cutting off; or as a metaphor for the severing of a relationship; or to describe
physically cutting or marking, but not cutting off.
Thus, the verse recommending punishment for theft or burglary, in the context of the Quran and its
terminology (and not the terminology or interpretation attributed to Muhammad or his followers)
provides us with a single verb ? but one that God has permitted to incorporate a range of possible
penalties. For instance
? Cutting or marking the person's hands as a means of public humiliation and identification;
? Physically cutting off the person's hands; or
? Cutting off the person's means and resources to steal and burglarize (presumably through
rehabilitation or imprisonment).
The act of imposing any of these penalties, or any of their combinations, would of course depend on
the facts of each case, the culpability and mental capacity of the accused, and the ability of the society
as a whole to act in accordance with God's other instructions in the Quran. Note, for instance, that a
Muslim society cannot punish a hungry person for stealing food, since letting a member of the society
go hungry is a much bigger crime than the act of stealing food. Such a society actually demonstrates
the characteristics of a society of unappreciative people! (See 1071-7; 8917-20; and 906-20).
Considering theft solely as an individual crime, and advocating the severest possible interpretation of
the Quran in rendering punishment, is neither fair nor consistent with the scripture.

Lena

e.g.1. the house maid or your attendant is found stealing in your home. If we follow Quran, the path of peace.

Cut their service in peaceful manner, or
Forgive him/her, or
They steal because we have not paid them enough, pay more and tell them to seek forgiveness from God.

we, always look solution in Quran for practical application in the path of peace only. This is how we should be following the Quran.

bravo

Bender

In other words, someone robs a bank and all he gets is a slap on the wrist (literally)...well a little cut that will heal after a few days. Hahaha what a joke.

Salaamun alayka,

Obviously you forgot to answer this question from MMKhan

Honestly tell me by witnessing Allah, did you not steal ANYTHING yet? Anything? Please be honest.

Now be a good sunni and hand your self to the mullahs who are responsible for cutting of hands.

We will see you inshaAllah again when you have learned to type with your toes.

Salaam,
Bender

Bigmo

This is a very crucial question for Quranists/Hadith-rejectors.

According to Quran, Surah 539 (Bismillah included) the thief, male or female must have their hands cut off. This means a male thief his hand (singular) is cut off and a female thief her hand (singular) is cut off.

Now my question is what if the thief steals a second time? What does the Quran instruct in this regard? The Quran never says to cut of their other hand.

But if for sake of argument you cut off their other hand. What if thief steals again a third time? What then? What does the Pure Quran instruct in that scenario?

That depends on what you mean by cut. The Quran says justice should be just and equitable and proportional (adl and qist). It tells us that an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a soul for a soul. Another words, the punishment should be equal to the crime. The Quran doe snot recognize deterrence or crime prevention as a justice system where the punishment can exceed the crime to act as a deterrence. Only proportional justice where the left side of the scale should equal the right side of the scale. The meezan (scale) should be balanced always.

So stealing is also dealt with in this manner. If a person steals a person hands and runs of with it than cutting his hands as you understand it makes sense and is just. But of course the Quran here does not mean amputation since losing a hand is always going to be more harsher than stealing property and money from someone. Most people would rather lose all their money than have their hand amputated.

So justice must be reciprocal and proportional and equitable in all cases.

So

mohf

Some streange responses here. Why not just give a straight answer?

Quran does not say to cut off the hands of thieves. It tells us to cut of the resources of the thieves. Furthermore, the Quran commands us and everyone for justice, equity. Eye for the eye, tooth for the tooth. Apple for a hand? Does that make sense?

I am not going in to much details. Please see this example from our prophet Yusuf.

Shakir 1270-79

So when he furnished them with their provisions, (someone) placed the drinking cup in his brother's bag. Then a crier cried out O caravan! you are most surely thieves.
They said while they were facing them What is it that you miss?
They said We miss the king's drinking cup, and he who shall bring it shall have a camel-load and I am responsible for it.
They said By Allah! you know for certain that we have not come to make mischief in the land, and we are not thieves.
They said But what shall be the requital of this, if you are liars?
They said The requital of this is that the person in whose bag it is found shall himself be (held for) the satisfaction thereof; thus do we punish the wrongdoers.

So he began with their sacks before the sack of his brother, then he brought it out from his brother's sack. Thus did We plan for the sake of Yusuf; it was not (lawful) that he should take his brother under the king's law unless Allah pleased; We raise the degrees of whomsoever We please, and above every one possessed of knowledge is the All-knowing one.
They said If he steal, a brother of his did indeed steal before; but Yusuf kept it secret in his heart and did not disclose it to them. He said You are in an evil condition and Allah knows best what you state.
They said O chief! he has a father, a very old man, therefore retain one of us in his stead; surely we see you to be of the doers of good.
He said Allah protect us that we should seize other than him with whom we found our property, for then most surely we would be unjust.

There are very extensive articles about why the cutting of hands is an incorrect translation. Allah often refer to his Hands, his Face, etc. Surely God does not have a physical body. It is because the words wajh, ayd, raas, etc have a different meaning in the Quran.