I'm Sad...
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I've been watching Al Jinn and Teddy3inDC on Youtube lately and reading the Quran...and I feel so sad because I cannot share these videos that present proof of Quran Alone with my Sunni father and brother, and close friends.
It is because I am afraid. And it makes me sad that I am afraid to tell them what I believe, and to provide them the chance for at the very least - critical analysis of the Quran and Islam and how it is practiced today.
I am afraid because I fear my father will be angry with me, and think I've gone astray, and my brother will think I've gone crazy (I'm the little one in the family).
I am afraid because I fear that when the message is presented to them, they will feel threatened, and will fight it through cognitive dissonance - or turn to their trusted scholars and sheikhs for guidance instead of reading the Quran without filters/tafsir/hadith. Not to mention they would probably pick up a Quran that has Hadith injected into it whether it is tafsir or translation.
I am afraid of the endless arguments and attempts of my family to re-convert me and 'correct' me. My father and brother are very strong headed and are self righteous and we already have our endless debates on our takes on nutrition and lifestyle. Imagine Deen!
I fear that they may reject it, therefore making it clear they rebel against Allah's words in the Quran...
I'm afraid and am a coward, and feel helpless. I don't know what to do other than pray for them. But I know I am wrong for not doing something about this.
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I'm afraid and am a coward, and feel helpless. I don't know what to do other than pray for them. But I know I am wrong for not doing something about this.
I feel exactly like this.
I can't share the information I know with my mother AT ALL... She hears Sheikh X said this is haram she'll believe it and no one can convince her otherwise apart from another sheikh. I having debates with my dad who has always emphasised on the importance of the Quran (still a sunni) but he's the "obedient to the authority" type of person. My siblings questions hadith like I do (3 of them) so that definitely helps a lot.
Learn more, go and debate online (I hate online debates but it might help in this instance) then when you gain confident and can argue what ever they throw at you, then let you dad and brother know. At least that's my plan. A chicken plan but it could work.
May Allah make it easy for us all. Don't feel sad because at the end of the day we should always remember Allah is all we need.
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I feel exactly like this.
I can't share the information I know with my mother AT ALL... She hears Sheikh X said this is haram she'll believe it and no one can convince her otherwise apart from another sheikh. I having debates with my dad who has always emphasised on the importance of the Quran (still a sunni) but he's the "obedient to the authority" type of person. My siblings questions hadith like I do (3 of them) so that definitely helps a lot.
Learn more, go and debate online (I hate online debates but it might help in this instance) then when you gain confident and can argue what ever they throw at you, then let you dad and brother know. At least that's my plan. A chicken plan but it could work.
May Allah make it easy for us all. Don't feel sad because at the end of the day we should always remember Allah is all we need.
Oh sister I'm sorry you are in the same situation as me, but it gives me some comfort to know I am not alone <3.
Yes at some point I do plan on educating myself further and debating, but I have a long way ahead of me, and my father is getting old..I just pray he gets the message somehow or I get to him before it's too late.
My mother can't pursue her beliefs around him (she doesn't believe in hadiths like me, but only told me after I admitted it to her!) so I hate that she has to secretly put up with his sunni advice and whatnot.
At the same time I can't claim to be rightly guided. I do not know..I can only guess and pray that I am and always will be. Ya Rab.
But I pray they at least learn to question everything. I want to plant the seed..I'm just not sure how yet...I don't want to come off as threatening towards them. I even thought of asking someone from the Quranology facebook group to anonymously send my parents a couple of links or vids...lol. The cowardliness!
How you described your mom reminds me of my mother in law and a lot of my female Egyptian relatives as well. I used to be like that too. I wonder why I ever looked to Sheikhs to educate me/tell me what to do? Is it because I thought Islam could be taught to me like science by a science teacher? The experts ought to know better than me, huh? Well I guess that all changed when I woke up to all the lies we've been told, and religion came next..
At least in the science community it is not haram/blasphemous to question our current scientific knowledge. Can't say the same about traditional Islam.
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Salam.
I feel the same too. If you read my thread on "Introduce Yourself", I have writren that it has been my dream to spread the true Islam which is peaceful, humane, just and easy. I want people to stop forcing women to cover up either just wearing headcoverings or the niqab. I want to eliminate Taliban, I want Muslims and non-Muslims world wide stop thinking and believing that covering head or face for women is compulsory, dogs are haram, music is haram, paintings are haram, graven imanges are haram, child bride is okay, forced marriage is okay, women can't leave home without related male guardians, and no rights for women, honor killing is Islamic, Islam commands pedophilia, the punishment of adultery is stoning to death, punishment for apostasy is death, punishment of stealing is cutting off hands, must glorify Prophet Muhammad only, women are like dogs and donkeys, women are "sacred" (objects) so women must be covered fully to "honor" (in fact disrespecting) women, women cannot be leaders, following the messenger in 459 means following the hadith hearsay, poligamy is encouraged,etc.
There should be no priesthood in Islam.
I hope I can do this. I am sick of teachers and scholars forcing women to cover up. At school, religious teachers do not teach Islam peacefully but they scare students. They make Islam look boring.
I still remember when there was a scholar giving a speech about Islam. "Whenever a man takes second wife, people say 'astaghfirallah' but whenever people has a new car, people say wowwww. Why don't you say 'alhamdulillah' to the man who takes second wife?". You see, women are considered objects. Cars of objects. Women are human beings. Duh.
I still remember the time I argued with my mom about headcoverings. My mom said "Who do you think you are to challenge scholars? They have learnt a lot for years! You only know a little about Islam! If you do not want to wear veil, It's up to you! Your father is also responsible for your sins!". As far as I know, Someone is only responsible for their own sins (or rewards). Sins cannot be transferred.
Some say that veiling is compulsory in Islam because it has already been worn by women before Islam especially Christians and Jews. Well, it's like saying slavery and infanticide are compulsory because they used to be traditions before Islam. Hmmmm.
I hope one day, after I finish school, I would make a lot of research and read many "masterpieces" of distorters of Islam- Shafi'i, Malik, Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, al-Ghazali etc and also Shia "masterpieces" and make research what is wrong with their masterpieces. I will be sitting on national exams in this November until December and this is the final year for me to go to school. After finishing school, I will try to make my dreams come true. Inshallah.
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Salaam PixelAngelBaby,
I am in the similar position with my mother. I told her once about the hadeeth and she wanted to renounce me - so I thought it is better for me to keep the relationship so I told her I dont believ any hadeeth that is nit true (which is for me every one, but she doesnt know that ) God orders me to be good to parents and I would not be able to if I had been too pushy about what is the truth or not. she would probably stop speaking to me and maybe got heart attack.
Old people (or any other for that matter) cannot be changed or it is up to us to change anybody. Up to us is to try to live by Quranic rules as much as we can and by our own example show the ones that can change another point of view on Islam.
As for"At least in the science community it is not haram/blasphemous to question our current scientific knowledge. "
Today's science is very much religion and especially in the " "scientific"- academic circles it cannot be questioned. Please watch"http//m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=share&v=JKHUaNAxsTg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJKHUaNAxsTg%26feature%3Dshare"
"Dogmatic assumption actually inhibits inquiry"What is really frustrating to me is that people here are questioning every little "religious" belief they know but don't ever start to think they should question the current (socially engineered) system they mostly live by.
I see more atheists and people without any religious background do this more freely and open-mindedly - to me it's weird I can relate to them more than to any muslim I encountered so far."women are "sacred" (objects) so women must be covered fully to "honor" (in fact disrespecting) women" - like making women sexual objects and going around half naked is respectful, and also for a women to slave from dawn till dusk for her boss is OK and advanced (socially desirable) but to be home with her kids is somehow deteriorating to her mind???
As someone said according to feminists women are free to choose what they want with their life as long as it is what they agree with.Peace.
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"women are "sacred" (objects) so women must be covered fully to "honor" (in fact disrespecting) women" - like making women sexual objects and going around half naked is respectful, and also for a women to slave from dawn till dusk for her boss is OK and advanced (socially desirable) but to be home with her kids is somehow deteriorating to her mind???
As someone said according to feminists women are free to choose what they want with their life as long as it is what they agree with.Peace.
I have never said naked women are respectful. They are indeed disrespecful. But it seems like you agree with the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Hmmmmm. I think you should read people's posts in different perspectives instead of in Saudi perspective. I have never said spending time with children, cooking for husband etc are wrong but do you like women to be oppressed like in Saudi Arabia? I have never said I like western culture especially the women's fashions which are often immodest. But why do you seem like you are against women who are just not veiling (but still dress modestly)? I have never seen Niqabi being respected by their folks especially men.
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Salaam PixelAngelBaby,
I am in the similar position with my mother. I told her once about the hadeeth and she was to renounce me - so I thought it is better for me to keep the relationship so I told her I dont believ any hadeeth that is nit true (which is for me every one, but she doesnt know that ) God orders me to be good to parents and I would not be able to if I had been too pushy about what is the truth or not. she would probably stop speaking to me and maybe got heart attack.
Old people (or any other for that matter) cannot be changed or it is up to us to change anybody. Up to us is to try to live by Quranic rules as much as we can and by our own example show the ones that can change another point of view on Islam.
As for"At least in the science community it is not haram/blasphemous to question our current scientific knowledge. "
Today's science is very much religion and especially in the " "scientific"- academic circles it cannot be questioned. Please watch"http//m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=share&v=JKHUaNAxsTg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJKHUaNAxsTg%26feature%3Dshare"
"Dogmatic assumption actually inhibits inquiry"What is really frustrating to me is that people here are questioning every little "religious" belief they know but don't ever start to think they should question the current (socially engineered) system they mostly live by.
I see more atheists and people without any religious background do this more freely and open-mindedly - to me it's weird I can relate to them more than to any muslim I encountered so far."women are "sacred" (objects) so women must be covered fully to "honor" (in fact disrespecting) women" - like making women sexual objects and going around half naked is respectful, and also for a women to slave from dawn till dusk for her boss is OK and advanced (socially desirable) but to be home with her kids is somehow deteriorating to her mind???
As someone said according to feminists women are free to choose what they want with their life as long as it is what they agree with.Peace.
Thank you for replying and sharing.
You made some very good points about the science community, but I do not think it is illegal to question things or do things differently unless it was dangerous i suppose.
I agree about the athiests. My brother fell out of Islam and I can't blame him because he was suffocating from the Hadiths grip and didn't know better. I hope Allah guides him towards real Islam.
The opposite of fully covered does not equal half naked. Im grinning because I used to sound like you and I would repeat arguments the sheikhs made in favor of jilbab and hijab, as well as a woman's role in society.
There is nothing wrong if a woman wants to be career oriented, but having a lot of children at the same time is probably not a good idea (i believe in being around children as often as possible). Just as there is nothing wrong with a woman staying home with her children. Just my opinion. But i do not think Quran never said a woman cannot work nor that she must stay with her children 24/7 (unless nursing).Just because a certain lifestyle may be western (although not necessarily) nowadays, does not make it the devil. Westerners also try implementing a democratic system, (albeit faulty and sometimes illusionary) which is more in line with Qur'an i believe than any of the 'islamic' countries today.
In Egypt I could go to jail for expressing my beliefs, while women fully covered walk about.
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I wanted to say the the extremes are generally not good (about the clothing ) I don't think the opposite of fully covered is half naked - those are extremes.
For the rest I mostly agree handshake
I am not dividing world on westerners vs. "islamic countries" - to me it's free against "not-free" which can be found all over the west or east.Peace
P.S. Don't be sad, at least we have "virtual" people with whom we can talk to (or listen to) )
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Peace PAB,
I've been watching Al Jinn and Teddy3inDC on Youtube lately and reading the Quran...and I feel so sad because I cannot share these videos that present proof of Quran Alone with my Sunni father and brother, and close friends.
It is because I am afraid. And it makes me sad that I am afraid to tell them what I believe, and to provide them the chance for at the very least - critical analysis of the Quran and Islam and how it is practiced today.
I am afraid because I fear my father will be angry with me, and think I've gone astray, and my brother will think I've gone crazy (I'm the little one in the family).
I am afraid because I fear that when the message is presented to them, they will feel threatened, and will fight it through cognitive dissonance - or turn to their trusted scholars and sheikhs for guidance instead of reading the Quran without filters/tafsir/hadith. Not to mention they would probably pick up a Quran that has Hadith injected into it whether it is tafsir or translation.
I am afraid of the endless arguments and attempts of my family to re-convert me and 'correct' me. My father and brother are very strong headed and are self righteous and we already have our endless debates on our takes on nutrition and lifestyle. Imagine Deen!
I fear that they may reject it, therefore making it clear they rebel against Allah's words in the Quran...
I'm afraid and am a coward, and feel helpless. I don't know what to do other than pray for them. But I know I am wrong for not doing something about this.Don't be sad. You are certainly not alone. In the past two months since I started the Arabic Facebook page "peacemaking from the great reading" (al-islam min al-quran), at least 140,000 people have joined the page
https//www.facebook.com/Quran4Peace
I wanted to point out to a very telling statistic from the Facebook page 75% of the page fans are under 24 years old. This is the future.
As for your parents, you might want to plant some seeds that can gradually grow and bring fruit. Fortunately, there is no shortage of bad Hadiths in Bukhari ranging from dipping flies into food to drinking animal urine to abducting and raping women to breastfeeding adult men. No reasonable sane person would accept these Hadiths. If you can make them consider the possibility that Bukhari made mistakes then this is the first step.
Do not despair and do not be sad while you have the high ground if you are believers.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
I think women who starve themselves to look sexy and dress in a challenging way are also somehow slaves, slaves to the system. You can see problems in all systems I guess.
God bless you
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Peace,
I think women who starve themselves to look sexy and dress in a challenging way are also somehow slaves, slaves to the system. You can see problems in all systems I guess.
God bless you
Yes i absolutely agree. Its usually because we are programmed to think our self-worth lies in our appearance and the more attractive = the more successful.
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Peace PAB,
Don't be sad. You are certainly not alone. In the past two months since I started the Arabic Facebook page "peacemaking from the great reading" (al-islam min al-quran), at least 140,000 people have joined the page
https//www.facebook.com/Quran4Peace
I wanted to point out to a very telling statistic from the Facebook page 75% of the page fans are under 24 years old. This is the future.
As for your parents, you might want to plant some seeds that can gradually grow and bring fruit. Fortunately, there is no shortage of bad Hadiths in Bukhari ) ranging from dipping flies into food to drinking animal urine to abducting and raping women to breastfeeding adult men. No reasonable sane person would accept these Hadiths. If you can make them consider the possibility that Bukhari made mistakes then this is the first step.
Do not despair and do not be sad while you have the high ground if you are believers.
Peace,
Ayman
Thank you so much for your comforting post ). 140,000 people! Wow! Does that group slowly educate on why hadith shouldn't be followed? Or is it avoiding that topic? I will check it out. Masha Allah, great work.
Yes I do want to plant a seed. Its so hard though. I wish i could post some things on my timeline on fb that would get them thinking but my best friend (who thinks im going through a phase and is upset that I took my hijab off and tries to convince me im wrong by qouting hilal and khan translations! Lol) will be bothered by it and it might hurt her feelings (lest i make her cognitive dissonance work harder!) and she might give me a hard time.
I even thought about outgrowing our best-friend relationship. She has made it clear she believes in everything her mom taught her and that she has faith even if sunnah is proven wrong. She will not reason. She has been controlled since childhood by her mom in strict islamic ways so i suppose she feels that finally getting over that is now all a waste if she accepts quran alone...
Also i cannot predict what kind of reaction i will get from my family. My family tends to fight with someone until they have corrected them or at the very least think they are nuts for thinking unlike them.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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peace,
It may be helpful if you visualise your own day of judgement, in the court of God, and consider how relevant it will be that your parents/siblings did not believe as you do.
It is natural to feel as you do however, but one should not let these feelings deter us from living a just/righteous life and doing as much good as we can. )
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peace,
It may be helpful if you visualise your own day of judgement, in the court of God, and consider how relevant it will be that your parents/siblings did not believe as you do.
It is natural to feel as you do however, but one should not let these feelings deter us from living a just/righteous life and doing as much good as we can. )
No soul bears the burden of another soul and no other soul will carry the sins of another, that's true. But it becomes relevant when/if Allah asks me what I have done to relay His message to my loved ones? Why didn't I speak up? (assuming I am right but I will never be self righteous about my beliefs again, learned my lesson!)
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Peace Pixel, barokAllah.
Yeah I know, play hide and seek from the mainstream is the great test for us, I mean we follow Quran Alone in the middle of traditional mainstream.
I'm also still remember your thread named "Tired Living in a Closet" which you give some your tought about what we feel, if we play hide and seek from "them".Yeah I already know about your country from medias and internet, I think Islam in Egypt not have too much pressure like mine country, the proof is I often seen Egyptian woman who freely walking in the strete without wearing hijab, khimar etc.Because of this, it may your advantage to not wearing them unless your family is too religious.
So don't be sad, not only you who suffering like this, because I'm too.This is normal, because this is verse which described for how some previous umat was suffering just because defending their faith
2214 Or did you expect that you would enter the Paradise, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were
stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said ?When is the victory of God?? Yes indeed, the victory of God is near.Dr Ayman also gave good ayat for how we must not be sad, because as believer, we already get high title from Allah.
instead of reading the Quran without filters/tafsir/hadith.
Maybe, but yeah looks like we still need them for Islamic terminology from them.
Example
(243)
(56)
(427)
Because you understand Arabic, you may know if that red words is not enough to be translated only with the dictionaries, instead we must use some historical narrations or some tafseer kitabs to undertand it, unless you translate that red words in literal ways ;D.
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I've been watching Al Jinn and Teddy3inDC on Youtube lately and reading the Quran...and I feel so sad because I cannot share these videos that present proof of Quran Alone with my Sunni father and brother, and close friends.
It is because I am afraid. And it makes me sad that I am afraid to tell them what I believe, and to provide them the chance for at the very least - critical analysis of the Quran and Islam and how it is practiced today.
I am afraid because I fear my father will be angry with me, and think I've gone astray, and my brother will think I've gone crazy (I'm the little one in the family).
I am afraid because I fear that when the message is presented to them, they will feel threatened, and will fight it through cognitive dissonance - or turn to their trusted scholars and sheikhs for guidance instead of reading the Quran without filters/tafsir/hadith. Not to mention they would probably pick up a Quran that has Hadith injected into it whether it is tafsir or translation.
I am afraid of the endless arguments and attempts of my family to re-convert me and 'correct' me. My father and brother are very strong headed and are self righteous and we already have our endless debates on our takes on nutrition and lifestyle. Imagine Deen!
I fear that they may reject it, therefore making it clear they rebel against Allah's words in the Quran...
I'm afraid and am a coward, and feel helpless. I don't know what to do other than pray for them. But I know I am wrong for not doing something about this.
Peace PixelAngelBaby,
You're not a coward... you're just feeling a natural human response to a difficult situation. Maybe right now you aren't ready to tell them. There is no need to rush. With patient perseverance and prayer you will get there and as I am sure you well know the verse already but with hardship comes ease. As others have mentioned, you can start by practicing debate and discussion. If you know your father and brother are very strong headed, maybe you need to do it bit by bit. So you might not say that how wrong the hadith are, but you could just start by saying how important our relationship with Allah swt is, that He is the One who provides guidance. That no-one can replace that guidance - because He is God. Things like that to just gain an idea of how they would react to that kind of discussion before you go any further. You could just ask things like if God gives us one form of ablution should we really be doing another form of ablution? I mean, God has already guided us on that. smaller things like that which could avoid heated debates or confrontation. I think that's important to keep it away from confrontation. I don't know how well that would work in your situation, these are just a couple of ideas. The reason I'm saying it like this is because I know Pagans have to be subtle in how they tell others or close family members about their faith.
Even if you never tell them, you're not a coward I believe that Allah swt would want us to talk to people about this if it's safe. I believe you are outside the West, although it could be safe in some situations, I'm not sure how it could play out if your father and brother are very pro-traditionalist, so I would say be extra cautious for your own safety.
I'm sorry you're going through this, and as I'm not in the same situation (my family are less religious and not too traditional well not close family) I can only give this sort of general advice. I hope it helps. Allah swt is always near and may He protect and bless you.
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Hi Pixelangelbaby,
I completely sympathize with you. It is difficult when you feel alone. Especially when you want to share all your new insights with people close to you. I think this forum is a good place to learn and vent your frustration. I think one thing that we need is a community. An open community that allows both people who accept hadith to those who totally reject them. An open egalitarian place to meet and debate.
I think the problem with your family is that it actually takes courage to question what you believe. It takes courage to put yourself in a vulnerable place where your faith may be shaken. However it seems that your faith has been solidified. The downside is that your family isn't ready to take the step to that vulnerable place. It is scary for them. They will have to learn and more importantly learn to think differently. If they ultimately end up where they are right now, they will have a great journey and will understand you more.
My advice to you that seems to work well with my family is to plant seeds. Don't give answers. Just give questions. And plant seeds in passing that will ultimately grow into something positive for you. If your goal is for them to understand and accept you, then you will need to be patient. Also, don't argue with them. Let them know you are struggling with things. When they get defensive, drop it. Say what you need to say. Say it once and drop it. Stay on topic. Don't make it personal. Sometimes the less you say the louder it sounds. If you get to arguing then people say things that they don't mean that are hurtful.
Hang in there. If I ever get to Cairo maybe we can meetup for tea or something. If all goes well I might get to Cairo this winter.
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace
JewishDude -
I just now wrote to my uncle explaining myself although my parents strongly advised me not to. But I felt that I needed to be honest in answering to my uncle why I no longer wear hijab, follow hadiths, have no intentions to go to hajj, etc. will share parts of the letter later.
And thanks for the advice jewishdude. Will keep you posted on how things go as I will be visiting family soon. I feel really nervous.
Pixelangelbaby, know that you are not alone with your feelings. I have been working on it, thinking about it (what should I say, how should I say it...) putting it off and finally just did it. I just asked God for help when I hit the "send" button. I sure know what you mean about feeling like a coward.
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Hi Pixelangelbaby,
I completely sympathize with you. It is difficult when you feel alone. Especially when you want to share all your new insights with people close to you. I think this forum is a good place to learn and vent your frustration. I think one thing that we need is a community. An open community that allows both people who accept hadith to those who totally reject them. An open egalitarian place to meet and debate.
I think the problem with your family is that it actually takes courage to question what you believe. It takes courage to put yourself in a vulnerable place where your faith may be shaken. However it seems that your faith has been solidified. The downside is that your family isn't ready to take the step to that vulnerable place. It is scary for them. They will have to learn and more importantly learn to think differently. If they ultimately end up where they are right now, they will have a great journey and will understand you more.
My advice to you that seems to work well with my family is to plant seeds. Don't give answers. Just give questions. And plant seeds in passing that will ultimately grow into something positive for you. If your goal is for them to understand and accept you, then you will need to be patient. Also, don't argue with them. Let them know you are struggling with things. When they get defensive, drop it. Say what you need to say. Say it once and drop it. Stay on topic. Don't make it personal. Sometimes the less you say the louder it sounds. If you get to arguing then people say things that they don't mean that are hurtful.
Hang in there. If I ever get to Cairo maybe we can meetup for tea or something. If all goes well I might get to Cairo this winter.
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace
JewishDudePeace JewishDude,
It's really nice to see you posting. The bit about egalitarianism I especially agree with. In any situation or context, we need to be focused on equality and fairness to everyone. The Quran is really clear on that. I mention this point quite a lot but I believe that's why the Quran warns us against using X label and saying all those people must believe or think the same thing. Such as when it talks about people of the book or even those who believe and the differences among such groups. One other example, although there are many more, is when Allah swt mentions how people or Prophet Muhammad, although the verses can actually leave this a bit open ended about who did this, ignored the blind man who was interested in knowing but were interested in addressing others, possibly the more powerful at the time as well as other reasons.
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peace
I often seen Egyptian woman who freely walking in the strete without wearing hijab, khimar etc.Because of this, it may your advantage to not wearing them unless your family is too religious.
The majority of women here in Egypt cover their head. With a bare head you'll attract lots of attention and some scorn.
