Surah Al-Kafirun
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The translation is not accurate. The word '3bud', 'ta3budun' 'na3buduh' etc. have zero relation to worshipping.
'3bud' means to obey, to follow, serve, etc. All believers 'ya3budun' God, while non-believers 'ya3budun' other than God.
Quran 221
O you mankind! Serve your Lord Who created you and those before you that you may become muttaqeen (see 23-4 for definition)
Peace mohf,
Why is there a "3" in your words ?
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Peace mohf,
Why is there a "3" in your words ?
The number is often used as an equivalent for the arabic letter 'ain' or .
Edit www.quran.com transliteration seems to use 'AA' as an equivalent for this arabic letter. As in 'AAbud' 'naAAbudu' 'taAAbudun' etc.
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On contrary, I understand the verse to be a message of "TOLERANCE".
First and foremost, there are no such thing as "GOD'S RELIGION".
GOD DOESN'T HAVE ANY RELIGION.If God's religion is Islam (a.k.a Sunniism) , then God need to proclaim shahada, believe in the Quran, believe in the Hadith, perform the rituals running around the black cube etc.. Otherwise God will be declared as an INFIDEL.
Which is of course RIDICULOUS.Now here's my understanding of "AL-KAFIRUN" (The People who hides/covers the truth"
Say, "O you people who covers (the truth), I do not SERVE what you SERVE!"
Or do you serve what I serve
Or will I ever serve what you serve
Or will you ever serve what I serve
To you your own attitude/judgement/opinion (arabicdien) and to me mine.Those who conceal / hides the truth, usually SERVE THEIR OWN EGO.
This attitude is apparent whenever you do a discussion with the RELIGIOUS people (a.k.a Sectarian people).Upon faced with the situation of 'his/her logical weakness getting exposed or his/her opinion proven to be weak / wrong', they will resort to anger and violence because HIS/HER EGO is at stake.
And Muhammad definitely faced those 'religious people who always tries to cover his/her own lies' during his lifetime.
Perhaps they even tried to kill him on many occasions..To them, the recommended attitude is clear "To you your own attitude/judgement/opinion (arabicdien) and to me mine"
This topic discussed in the verse above is closely related to 2256, which basically state
"There are no compulsion / enforcement in attitude/judgement/opinion (arabic Dien), as Truth stands out clear from BS".
Salam / Peace
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Peace,
Ironically, those who call themselves Muslims today are kafirs by definition, covering the Truth knowingly or unknowingly. History repeats itself it seems.
God bless you
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peace
to me, this is to be said to those who are putting pressure on us so that we go back to our old religion, or want us to change into their religion, and that we clearly know that they are not worshipers of the one and only God and believe in all His prophets and make no difference between any of them. And, in a way, yes, we are telling them "that our path as muslims and their path as nonbelievers are totally irreconcilable", for we are following the path that leads to God, and they are following the path that leads to hell. However, this does not mean that we have to be hostile towards them, because maybe many of them will become believers in the future and will love god maybe even more than us (only God knows). "Nor will you ever worship what I worship. as log as they stay in the path they are in, this is true. Also, A muslim must not be hostile towards any creature of God, no mater if the creature in question is an unbeliever. Keep in mind that I am talking about people of other religions which are not being hostile towards us. This does not mean that we can befriend them, or ally with them, for this is forbidden to the believers. For the ones oppressing us and being hostile towards us there are other verses of how to deal with them.
may God bless us with wisdom.
Peace, wrkmmn
This was also my view of the Surah.
Peace NotSure,
The wonderful sura no. 109. It can be understood as the culmination of growth by
the believer when the God submitter recognizes that there is no longer any point in
debating the existence or authority of God. Some of us can remember when we
argued about God's attributes, or the veracity of the Quran, or will there
be a judgement day, sura 109 reveals that we have our way and the non-believers have
their way. There is no need to be hostile because God simply has not guided them to
this. There is no compulsion in religion. This is not an aloofness but a concession.
Maybe one day if they are fortunate God will guide those who previously were not
on the path to the path. God willingGod Bless
peace
Peace Hawk99,
In my head it was not as well-articulated as in your post, but what you said was how I thought and felt about the surah. That it was a wonderful surah and that it contained an important lesson for me in my growth as a believer and that I need to digest this lesson to continue to make progress on the steep path I am on. Frequently, I find myself frustrated by others who don't follow the same path as me. For example, I sometimes have been aggravated by seeing my family members spending too much time watching TV/playing video games/listening to mind-numbing radio and quietly become angry and think "why are you polluting your brain with this garbage??! you should be reading! or praying!" and become frustrated with them when I have no right to be judging them or becoming frustrated with them. Or, for example, I have a gay co-worker- I keep my distance from him- I don't know if that's necessarily "right" but I figure it's at least "permissible" but every time I see him I feel an intense wave of revulsion in my mind and my stomach. That revulsion is a clear sign that I have not yet mastered what this surah aims to teach me.
Thank you, wrkmmn and Hawk99. The tafsir I read threatened to make this surah into something ugly and tarnish the beauty of God's surah in my mind. But I feel a little more confident now that I was not deluded in my interpretation.
Peace,
The sura indicates that these phrases are meant to be used against those who do not follow God's religion. Qul = say, probably God who told Muhammad originally to say this, but today it is probably something to say for whoever finds these phrases useful. Maybe if you are prosecuted and they want to force you to accept their religion you can tell this series of verses. Or they mock you or try to entice you to change.
It does not make sense to recite the sura as a prayer since it would seem strange in front of the Lord.
Focus on verses in Quran which start say "oh Lord" or similarly, these are the prayer verses, or the first sura of the Quran. I stopped reciting ayat which make no sense. It is ignorant people who keep reciting them as prayers in my opinion.
And no, the surah does not indicate that you should be hostile towards disbelievers. Only an ignorant person would extract that meaning from it.
God bless you
Peace Man of Faith,
The Surah itself emphasizes the futility of debating with disbelievers; yet the purpose of this surah is to give us words for when we debate disbelievers? I intend to memorize this surah and use it in prayer because, as I have explained in my response to Hawk99, I feel that this surah contains an important lesson that I must internalize as part of my growth as a muslim.
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Peace Family,
This surah must be inculcated, instilled or ingrained onto our character or how else
can we obtain humility and not walk the earth arrogantly or despondent or saddened
by what others believe. People have rights and among them is to disbelieve, therefore,
if it is our goal to walk the path and obtain the status of mumin at some point we
must understand what God is telling us in Quran Kareem and "actually believe
in our hearts" when God says in many verses throughtout Quran about disbelief
7/146, 6/35, 5/105, 27/81 2/256, 10/99 and many more.Lakum deenukum waliya deen
And always remember that God refers to the believers as Fortunate.
God Bless the Family of believers
peace
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peace notsure
For example, I sometimes have been aggravated by seeing my family members spending too much time watching TV/playing video games/listening to mind-numbing radio and quietly become angry and think "why are you polluting your brain with this garbage??! you should be reading! or praying!"
I think you should let them be, because in the end you can not make them believe, at least until you can get away from them. If you push them, they will only become more hostile towards you. there is no compulsion in matters of religion. I have had the same experience with my family, but at least I was not living with them when I became a believer. I was already married and living by my own (and God the most Merciful blessed me that my wife followed my steps). My relatives, who are mostly hypocrite Catholics (because they don't even care about the catholic ways and they say it openly), usually tell me that I have lost my mind, that I have become a religious fanatic, a radical. I have already talk with all of them and told them that I will not argue with them about God anymore, and that to them their ways and to me mine. Even to my parents, who although they still ask me to help them in many things, have told me that maybe I am the devil, or the antichrist, trying to lose them from the path. I just let them be, and try to stay away from them as much as I can, and never go to their celebrations, specially the religious ones.
Or, for example, I have a gay co-worker- I keep my distance from him- I don't know if that's necessarily "right" but I figure it's at least "permissible" but every time I see him I feel an intense wave of revulsion in my mind and my stomach.
486 But when you are greeted with a greeting , answer with an even better greeting, or with the like thereof. Verily, God keeps count indeed of all things.
I am not sure if this verse applies to this situation, only God knows, But I try to do it with the unbelievers, my lesbian niece, and all the gay people, for there are many in this city, my cousin (who is a US veteran and usually laughs of how he killed believers in Irak and Afghanistan), even though I hate them for what they say about me and about God, but what can I do, I still have to deal with all this people around me. I am one in a sea of unbelievers. Only God the all merciful I have take as protector.
May God bless us and guide us to the straight path.
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peace notsureI think you should let them be, because in the end you can not make them believe, at least until you can get away from them. If you push them, they will only become more hostile towards you. there is no compulsion in matters of religion. I have had the same experience with my family, but at least I was not living with them when I became a believer. I was already married and living by my own (and God the most Merciful blessed me that my wife followed my steps). My relatives, who are mostly hypocrite Catholics (because they don't even care about the catholic ways and they say it openly), usually tell me that I have lost my mind, that I have become a religious fanatic, a radical. I have already talk with all of them and told them that I will not argue with them about God anymore, and that to them their ways and to me mine. Even to my parents, who although they still ask me to help them in many things, have told me that maybe I am the devil, or the antichrist, trying to lose them from the path. I just let them be, and try to stay away from them as much as I can, and never go to their celebrations, specially the religious ones.
486 But when you are greeted with a greeting , answer with an even better greeting, or with the like thereof. Verily, God keeps count indeed of all things.
I am not sure if this verse applies to this situation, only God knows, But I try to do it with the unbelievers, my lesbian niece, and all the gay people, for there are many in this city, my cousin (who is a US veteran and usually laughs of how he killed believers in Irak and Afghanistan), even though I hate them for what they say about me and about God, but what can I do, I still have to deal with all this people around me. I am one in a sea of unbelievers. Only God the all merciful I have take as protector.
May God bless us and guide us to the straight path.
Salaam "wrkmmn",
I know exactly how you feel.
Such is life.
Sajda. peace
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Peace all.
NotSure it's interesting thread.
Before I start my intepretation, I will show you for why Quran Alone archieve more "liberty" than then traditionalist ones?It's because Quranist can do free-intepretaion, freedom of tafseer ( also known as ro'yu) based their own situation and needs, based on their psycollogical condition.
It's different with Sunni and Syia which not give freedom of tafseer to the followers instead must follow tafseer corridor by Authantic Ulema (example is Sunni must follow tafseer by Ibn Katsir, Ibn Taimiyah or by Saudi Ulema's tafseer)Al Kafeerun contains 6 ayat but actually the last ayat is the point laakum deenukum waliya deen
The word "deen" cannot simply translated into "religion", but can also "system".
Surah Al-Kafeerun is similiar with the surah 1041
1041 And if they deny you, then say ?I have my deeds (amal), and you have your deeds (amal). You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.?
Al Kafeerun and 1041 is not limited about religion and amal, but also it make clear if this verse told us if the humans was created differs each other, follow each own path or we can say "me to mine path, you to yours and I'm innocent to your path and you also innocent to mine".It's my way don't ever disturb my way so I will not disturbing you.
This verse is the "key of liberation" for how someone can choose their own path, deeds and system their follow without any oppresion, obstructions by someone or somegroups because no one have disturb our own path.
Because freedom of tafsir, let's I will give you the examples about the benefit of both 2 ayat on the daily life
- Understanding personality of the people. (Me to my personality and you to your personality.)
The human pesonalities is differently each other even they're twin.So there is no point if we try to compare our own with another because it's never became same.
I ever became the eye witnesses of the twin who is very similiar in their faces.But their personality is different, the first one is open hearted but the second one is shy.- Different path each other. (It's my path and it's your path)
My lecturer in university ever say to me if his son want to became like Sukarno, but he say to his son "don't say like that because you never became Sukarno, follow your own path if you want to became succesfull like him".
Maybe in daily life we found the children who want to became like the idols, similiar with idols, but based on the verses, we may told them if you never became like them, but follow your own style if you want to became like them.
- Professionalim in the field (It's my field and it's your field)
In workplace, the workers already divided by their own field and their territory is only in their own field.Example is the public relation department, their work area in the company of course must be in public relations, and they cannot did the secretary'works, HRD's works, chairman's works unless if the company want to be doomed.
So that's why the science such like mangement of company existed so the company will more structural and systematic and get their goals and project also in systematical ways.
It's like in the soccer sport, each players have their own positions area in the field.
The example is left midfield player, their area of playing must in their own, and thay mustn't enter center back's area, center forward's area, sweeper's area unless they want their strategy became untidy.The another example is the proffesionalism in the speaking.
I mean if we want create some forums, seminars, or some TV talkshow, the guest speaker who we must invited is someone who capable and have "autharity" to speak about the theme or topic of the forums.Example if the theme is about medical, it's not professional if we invited the economist as the main speaker.
- etc.
The conclusion is The Holy Quran is the magnifficent Scripture with Kalam Allah written on it, full of hikmah, thus full of wisdoms.It's the example for how the verses in the Quran can be implemented by anyone, any situstions, any eras.
It's like in the Al-Kafeerun and 1041 for how the one word like laakum deenukum waliya deen can be implemented in many many situation and how this verses teach us about the ethics by how we musn't disturbing or oppresing someone's path, religion, differences and ideals.This is how Allah with his Quran create "peace" for His ummah.
Islam is born in the Asia (Middle east) and yet they didn't notice the powerfull of the Sublime Quran especially Al-Kafeerun.
Middle east is also known as the home of dictators, oppression, forcing ideology to someone in many years.
Maybe Asian people is more religious, more traditionalist, and have more ethics then European, but Asian people must learn a lot from Europe for how to became "freedom", freedom of speech, freedom of ideals without any oppression.Freedom is important to make peaceful life and became more developed, and indeed the Surah Al-Kafeerun teach us about it implicitly.Quran contains short surats but brillian hikmah hidden on it.
Sorry if I'm splashing my useless words in here and hopefully it can help you NotSure or anyone in here.
WasSalam
Earthdom -
Peace,
I would not recite this surah in prayer because it is not a prayer but wise words to use against those who associate partners with God. There are much better phrases to use as I told in my previous post. But of course it is up to you, however I find it to be redundant prayer wordings. The text is obviously aimed at other people and you want to read this for God?
Do as you please, but I would use better verses for this purpose.
God bless you
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(The Rashad Khalifa translation)
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say, "O you disbelievers.
"I do not worship what you worship.
"Nor do you worship what I worship.
"Nor will I ever worship what you worship.
"Nor will you ever worship what I worship.
"To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."
What I am wondering is this what is God trying to teach us with this Surah? Right now I'm reading a work of tafsir and what it says about this Surah is very opposed to what I see when I read the Surah. The message of the Surah, according to the tafsir is that our path as muslims and their path as nonbelievers are totally irreconcilable and we must remain aloof and hostile to them and their way of life. This is not what I thought the Surah was trying to tell me. Does anyone have an alternate explanation?
Dr Kalifa's failed Wisdom at 1096 due to his number theory.
he might have seen 109 as nineteen.The corrrect one is... "To You is Your way; and to me is my way."
Refer drfazl for more clarity. we all thanks to Only One Master Teacher i.e ALLAH for teaching drfazl.
drfazl is an example. We all wish ALLAH will teach us too. -
Kafirs are those who are against their own conscience. The sura is meant for those who abide by their conscience. Religion has no place here in this chapter of Quran.
Yes it's about conscience, it's about how we musn't intervere or commenting another person ways instead we must focus in my own way.
Surah Al-Kafirun is the commandment to remove any oppression and forcing ideals.Dr Kalifa's failed Wisdom at 1096 due to his number theory.
he might have seen 109 as nineteen.The corrrect one is... "To You is Your way; and to me is my way."
Refer drfazl for more clarity. we all thanks to Only One Master Teacher i.e ALLAH for teaching drfazl.
drfazl is an example. We all wish ALLAH will teach us too.Give explanation or promoting drfazl )?
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Yes it's about conscience, it's about how we musn't intervere or commenting another person ways instead we must focus in my own way.
Surah Al-Kafirun is the commandment to remove any oppression and forcing ideals.Give explanation or promoting drfazl )?
Instead of picking up arguments Read all his 1000+ posts... Eventually your conscience will accept.. . If not there are lot of ayats are there for not accepting...
Who am I to Promote... ALLAH is doing HIS Acts....No one can Question ALLAH. ALLAH does What ALLAH WISH...
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Who am I to Promote... ALLAH is doing HIS Acts....No one can Question ALLAH. ALLAH does What ALLAH WISH...
It's not like this Jango.
I already seen your posts in many threads, I always get little laugh after reading your post.You always post something like this
"Ooo drfazl your post always give me power day by day"
or something like
"Dear Drfazl,
We are blessed and lucky enough in this era by Gods Blessings. The God, Quran, Malaika,Prophets, hereafter and explanations is new and more truthful every moment."This is what I mean bro/sis )
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Peace,
You talk about 1096 and complain about RK's translation of deen into religion. While not entirely an accurate choice, it is not utterly wrong. Some contemporary people translate it as 'system'.
God bless you
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Some contemporary people translate it as 'system'.
It's because deen cannot simply translated in to "religion" because "religion" is manmade.
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It's not like this Jango.
I already seen your posts in many threads, I always get little laugh after reading your post.You always post something like this
"Ooo drfazl your post always give me power day by day"
or something like
"Dear Drfazl,
We are blessed and lucky enough in this era by Gods Blessings. The God, Quran, Malaika,Prophets, hereafter and explanations is new and more truthful every moment."This is what I mean bro/sis
Instead wasting time in reading my posts..its of no use. Read his 1000 + posts and get back to me. Where I praise the LORD...Do not add your Imagination.. GOD is keenly watching... The someting is ur imagination...GOD Bless you. If you are blessed with wisdom.. then again I too Praise the Lord for the Blessings given to Earthdom... But I wish better change to Skydom...All our needs are from the Sky
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Jango I know what you feel, you may struggle to protecting your teacher, Mr Fazlur Rahmaan.
The proof is you even still defending his arguments, while you may already know if his arguments is outside the topic we discussed.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605322.0
Still remember this thread? This thread is talking about politic, but unfortunately Mr Fazlur posting something which very misslead the topic (even his post is reasonable).
So thats why @Shirley mocking him in that thread, maybe shirley's post is little bit unfriendly but true.It's not professional if we talking about politic then we use arguments outside politic.
By saying this, I'm never mocking Mr Fazlur instead I still respect him as "Master of Accupunctur".My knowledge is nothing if it compare to him.